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Txs UZ!
Your contribution to this board is really valuable. Many Thanks.
What a shame! Thanks to info obtained by bidders under non disclosure conditions - by the way, we could not care less about it - we managed to screw Wamu. It's something we tried with Wacovia, but we couldn't.
Uzual, this is great stuff.
It seems clear that most tax returns aré WMI's. Rosen and Quinn knew it and acted accordingly... Until something happened, then they changed minds and negotiated to give it away.
What happened? What was the triggering event that changed their agendas?
I hope one day will know about it.
Cheers and thanks for your great contribution to the board.
I am, it's just music, I assume the hearing did not start yet.
Thanks to you Climber...
... what she did about the discovery motions was to ask EC to narrow the scope, .. but she gave signs she may accept the motions provided the scope is narrowed... I expect EC to file these motios as requested very soon.
I agree, Ch7 or equivalent POR presented by the Creditors will not make too much progress until the real value is on the table - which current POR hides.
I just mentioned it because it will come at some point in the timeline.
Thanks Ilene!!
Good timeline Drrugby...!!
... my only comment ... in the meant time we should expect the Creditors to attack and propose a competing plan pursuing Ch7... also in the meantime the WMB Bondholders rights ( if any, beyond corporate veil) should be clarified and the Marta's claims expunged.
I am pretty sure the DS is dead!!
She will use next days to rule against it, and - this is specially relevant - to analize how to overcome Rosen's argument ( the non BK case he talked about ) about their fiduciary duties and how it's unclear that he has to be loyal to shareholders.
I am positively convinced the Judge thinks Rosen's is not doing the right thing by not sharing with EC the digested results of their work. She did not force him today to do so, because she wants to make it with good solid written arguments that overcome Rosen's example today.
It triggered my attention how well prepared Rosen was to debate today the topic of his fiduciary duties, who he should be loyal to, and why the shareholders and debtors are not in the same side.
He had the case to counter argument the judge absolutely top of his mind. I am sure he was so prepared because he is pretty aware of the risk he is facing with his questionable behaviour. The judge thinks - I am possitively sure after hearing her - he is not doing the right thing.
I am also convinced the judge will give everyone the chance to value the merits of the claims against JPM and FDIC. She may do it with an examiner or whatever sort of effective discovery. I she will do it before accepting any DS that dicharge these claims. And she knows the current DS gives zero clues about why these claims are meritless and not worth to pursue.
I am very optimistic at this point. By the time Rosen/JPM/FDIC can reshape their game plan we will likely have a new BOD.
Cheers!!
She said she will rule on DS before next hearing.
That's what I heard.... "I don't hear anymore about DS objections because I am prepared to rule before on this before the next hearing" or something pretty closed to this.
Did I hear wrong?
Thanks Kristall!!!
Only this piece should be enough to enforce deep examination!!
Bizreader gave me a clue!!
The POR fits with what Rosen's employeers ( WMI's BOD) requested from him ( cover their asses) ... but if it's desiged to fail, ... then it would grant a lot of long term fees for a greedy lawyer.
See Biz's post:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=50490086
Cheers..!!
One week ago FDIC filed in court a formal rejection to Rosen's POR.
Their main reason in that document was the fact that FDIC could not approve a POR that leaves current and former WMI Directors free of any potential future claims. FDIC stated in that document that in they role as regulators they may need to pursue future actions against our dear BOD.
That DOC was filed last Monday. Four days later FDIC BOD accepted Rosen's POR, whithout any further explanation about why the arguments they presented in court days before were not anymore valid.
I was expectig FDIC to file today a document removing their previous one and hopefully adding an explanation. Nothing yet.
How can an agency like FDIC, in a serious country like US, formally argue in a court such a strong argument and some days later act as if the argument didn't exist?
This is one more of the bizarre elements that - unless the judge starts really ruling asap on APs, deposits, claims and ownership of trusts+tax.refunds+NOLs,Subs value - are making this process to look really like a banana republic's legal process.
Take notice that I didn't use the expression POR, but Rosen's POR. I did so, because from now on we will need to add an adjective to PORs in order to communicate.
Exlusive Plan Approval's deadline will be missed on May,26th (*) and starting May,27th we will see plans from everyone: creditors, EC, WMB Bondholders, FDIC, JPM and - last but not least - my mother. She is already working in her own discovery statement.
She - my 80 years mother - decided to present a POR, because she is as informed about facts as anyone .... unless the judge starts ruling fast or decides to appoint the Examiner and then rules based on it's conclusions.
By the way, in this case my mother would be equally informed as anyone... and with her ... we the shareholders ( finally!!).
This will become a real circus - and embarasing one for a process that will be a reference for future investors and depositors in financial entities - unless our dear judge starts ruling asap.
Anyway, today was a GREAT DAY, .. the pps supported the most dangerous menace it ever faced pretty well, with more buys than sells and a limited drop. It's well above last Thursday closing.
Now let's sit down, open a beer (**) and enjoy the circus show!!... the show will get even better as soon as the new BOD gets appointed ... then the lions and tigers will jump out of the cage to chase Rosen and his masters ... the current BOD members
Cheers dear wamuers!!
(*) Rosen met the Plan Deadline (March,26th), but he cannot materialy meet the Approval Deadline (May, 26th) since the earliest hearing to cover it is on June,3rd... and both deadlines are in their legal limit, and both are a MUST to maintain exclusivity. So my mother can present her POR.
(**) I am arranging a truck of beers, because it may take long until the tiger gets Rosen and the lions get the current "Directors".... and this IS SOMETHING I WANT TO SEE with a beer at hand.
Clear path to 0.11 guys!!
Rosen failed to meet the Solicitation Period.
Solicitation Period (acceptance of the plan) is different than Plan Period (presentation of the plan) . Both are collectively named Exclusive periods.
Rosen met the deadline for the Plan Period (March 26th), but Rosen cannot - given the DS hearing, appeal, etc dates - get the plan accepted by the court by the end of the Solicitation Period ( May 26th).
Please read below (bottom) for the details of these Exclusive periods concepts. The judge likely knew it when she asked Rosen why he was so much in a hurry.
The implication is that starting May 27th we will see competing plans, with no special consideration for Rosen's one. If, in parallel, the Shareholder's meeting takes place and the BOD is renewed, then Rosen will be simply toasted (as well as his 3 versions of the DS)
In my opinion, the two more relevant plans that we will see are:
1) One filed almost inmediatly by WMI's creditors asking for inmediate liquidation (Ch7) without any consideration for the JPM/FDIC/WMI-BOD interests currently represented by Rosen. This plan will not take into consideration the need to cover current WMI-BOD asses. Rosen's 3 versionns of the plan tried to cover these asses because the current WMI-BOD is the one who hired Rosen.
2) One filed by Susman - based on Solomon's (*) numbers -representing EC. This one will likely come later given the delay to access sound information. In this case the plan is likely to proactively go after - among other asses - the BOD's ones as well as Rosen's one. This one will be funny to read, eh?
(*) If the appeal is accepted, then Susman's plan will be based on the Examiner numbers, instead of on Solomon's ones. At the end of the day what we all keep missing are the real numbers -at least a documented and rational range of numbers- influencing the A/L balance.
I don't think the UST will file a plan before the EC does it. At any rate I don't think UST would file a plan before either Solomon's or the Examiner's numbers are available, and the discovery documents are analized.
Maybe WMB bondholders may volunteer their plan, as well as other claimants might do. But these ones will not have too much ground given the current status of these diverse claims. Examples: Marta's one: decreased from 50B, down to 40B, .. and now it seems to be below 0.5B, and even so it's not recognized yet. Something similar is going on with the 13B claim from WMB bondholders: now it seems that the potentially ( not yet recognized by the court) jseems that a 13B claim will be reduced to less than 1B.
I think JPM and/or FDIC may present their plans.
JPM may present a plan asking for the full 4B plus a good % of the tax refunds. I don't think they would dare to do it, because it would likely force the judge to finally rule on the 4B SJ. This is not good for JPM. On the other hand it would never beplan acceptable by WMI'sthe creditors who need the 4B to come back to in WMI's hands to have any chance to get a recovery.
FDIC may come back with a plan that demands to keep the 4B in FDIC's hands ( they tried before as may of us can recall), as well as to get a large % of the tax refunds. ... WMB bondholders would be happy with this, but it again would face tough and powerfull opposition from WMI's creditors, EC and other parties.
ANYWAY, ... IN A NUTSHELL ... ROSEN WILL FAIL TO MEET THE "ACCEPTANCE DEADLINE"... AND WE CAN EXPECT more plans to come and MUCH MORE TIME TO PASS BEFORE THIS CASE GETS CLOSED.
--- Cheers to everyone
-------------
EXPIRATION PERIODS: Plan period (March 26Th)& Acceptance period /amy26Th).
//Section 1121(b) of the Bankruptcy Code provides for a period of 120 days after the
commencement of a chapter 11 case during which a debtor has the exclusive right to file a plan of
reorganization (“Plan Period”). In addition, section 1121(c)(3) of the Bankruptcy Code provides that if
the debtor files a plan within the Plan Period, it has a period of 180 days after commencement of the
chapter 11 case to obtain acceptances of such plan (the “Solicitation Period” and together with the Plan
Period, the “Exclusive Periods”). Pursuant to section 1121(d) of the Bankruptcy Code, the Bankruptcy
Court may, upon a showing of cause, extend or increase the Exclusive Periods. ....
....Finally, on
January 15, 2010, the Debtors filed a fifth motion to extend the Exclusive Periods, and by order dated
February 9, 2010, the Bankruptcy Court extended the Plan Period and the Solicitation Period through and
including March 26, 2010 and May 26, 2010, respectively.
------------------------
Dear Johnny, this is your best post. Well articulated, full of good solid arguments.... as per your own words ... " numbers don't lie, people do "... what a great example!! what a great lesson!!
If I understand you well, now the questions are:
- where are the numbers that don't lie? ... in the DS? which one, the 1st, the 2nd, .. or a future one?... or are they in the MOR's?... or are they in the original Rosen's and Quin's AP's against JPM and FDIC filed months ago? or maybe in the future Solomon's valuations? ... please tell us where are the numbers that don't lie!
- who are the people that lie? Blair? Dimon? Killinger? Reichner? Rosen, 12 months ago? Rosen 4 months ago? Susman?
In my dumb blindness I am looking for a clue. I need you.
Frankly, ... Rosen's motion to move the SJ about Sh. Meeting back to BK court again, then Susman accepting it inmediatly and Rosen now trying to avoid it - trying to avoid precisely what he requested! ... hummm it seems it may give us a clue about who lies ( you conviced me, people lie) ... but surely my conclusions will be wrong ... I now need to learn the true from you.
Since I am absolutely convinced about your desire to enlight all of us, can you please share with us your conclusions about this situation? why Rosen changed his mind within days?
Thanks in advance for your new lesson.
Warm cheers!!
Txs Climber!! 19 months here... I am barely posting these days, on one side I have not too much to contribute, .. on the other hand I am damm busy these days.
However I am following this saga closely and I keep holding my shares.
Frankly, this is becoming quite a bizarre show. At this point and with the current POR disaster I am wondering if THJMW will not just bury it by finally ruling on the 4B SJ anyday.
By doing so then she can move the process to the next chapter paying less attention to settlements talks and more to ruling on pending claims and litigation as well as looking for current value of the assets, NOLs and Tax refunds splits.
On the other paralel scenario the potential removal of the BOD by EC and the likely claims to come from everywhere against current Directors is going to be funny to watch.
I hope the best for you Climber.
Cheers!!
The POR is dead. IMO after FDIC denial, the WMB claim pendding discovery and EC doc... the so called " settlement " is wasted paper.
We may end up green again!!
The EC chairman owns commons but not prefs.. did I understand it well?
I think it's J. Sleet's signature.
We have secured 4+2.x=6.xB in cash only with this "low ball" offer ... this is not a settlement yet and A>L already.
Not yet even read by EC, UST, the Judge and not yet approved by WMI's board ... I mean, this is the starting point in the negotiation ... discovery, damages, etc are not factored yet and we still don't know if only 2.xB out of 5.6B of tax recovery is an acceptable share for WMI... BUT WE ALREADY KNOW THIS IS THE MINIMUN AND IT'S ENOUGH TO BE WITH A>L !!!
Leaving apart the PPS panic and the frustration having expected a real settlement instead of a low ball offer,,, today we have made a great progress!!!
Now the real negotiation starts...!!
Cheers!!!
Txs, michael .. I just bookmarked it.
Cheers!
skid, I just did it, txs!!
FF - Txs, for your replies guys!!
although it's a pity we lost the uptrend.
FF up to near $0.55 !! Nice volume, almost 7M shares so far!!
I don't have real time, ... does anyone have it? Any update?
Cheers!
Now, I understand it. Txs.
Why do yoy say DC was positive ... I guess I missed something!
Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
WaS, once again chapeau!!
Thanks for such a summary!!
Cheers!!
Uzual It's 2.6B to 3B PLUS 2.6B... according to MOR.
If you keep reading down to page 10 you will see the additional 2.6B that we expected.
So the total tax refund range is: 5.2B - 5.6B.
.. I guess this means that that as soon as the SJ is ruled A>L already, even considering Prefs... and before the 4B trusts disputes
We just need the remaining claims expunged to have a clear path out of BK with commons intact and the 4B't trust litigation finished.
In my opinion, these are now the matters where Weil should be actively focused, leaving Quinn focused in the disccovery.
Was, ... just outstanding video!!!
... I was impressed by your first video about one year ago. Now, you really got it great!!!
Thanks a lot my friend!!
Cheers!!
I missed that one, sorry!
it was about the trusts but I am not sure of the timming... it's tomorrow, I read it but I cannot find the court agenda .. it was posted about 24 h ago.
yes, it seems the 3rd hot topic was delayed until next week
JW is a sophisticated version of P and "youse" ... things have somehow changed over these 15 months but the basic items remain here.
It would be great to have the ruling on the SJ at hand. But I somehow think that unless THJMW rules previously against FDIC motion to leave the A.Stay .. a ruling about the 4B would be wet paper .. I mean useless. Until the judge makes clear that FDIC doesn't have a chance to grasp the money from JPM before it goes to WMI I think it's safer in the current status.
I am not sure about the 90 days deadline .. maybe mordi or ramirez could help us about this.
Cheers!
Don't we have another hearing tomorrow about the trusts?? I have seen that scheduled for tomorrow 4pm somewhere yesterday... am I wrong?
Wamook, ... please read the rest of my posts today... I likely failed to express properly in the post you replied .. sorry for that... I think we are pretty aligned...
You may be right .... possibly by today - and without the need of a explicit SJ ruling that may be appealed - all parties know that in the limit she will hand the money to WMI ... so they all count on it as a fact in the settlement negotiations ... what you say makes sense ....
... but I admit I would be very very happy to read the formal SJ ruling ...
THJMW will hand the 4b to WMI because ...
I am sure the FDIC Motion to leave the automatic stay will be denied ... and shortly the 4B deposits will be awarded to WMI.
A judge cannot state in court that WMI is not "hopeless insolvent" and simultaneously grant FDIC motion and/or hand the 4B deposits to anyone but WMI.