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I didn't claim anything, sir.
I just want people know that they should be aware what kind of proof leads to what kind of conclusion instead of going way beyond to a false claim of a lie.
Look at this line of clue:
your shares/benefit - co. earnings - co. business (selling) and management - co.manager's current qualification - co. manager's history
From this line you can see how much you need to prove before you claim it a scam. Also you will know what is more critical for claiming it a scam.
You must have realized that everything is so controversial. Unfortunately, OS repeatedly claimed they are absolutely truth or facts. That is a huge difference.
Investigation is a very serious business. It can lead to others' huge loss. So, every piece of material must be as correct and safe as the parts in your car. You must know which is absolute truth, which is controversial, which can be a lie, which can be a trap...
Be aware the logic. suppose this is the court, whose confirmation is legit? my answer is either Capt Jack confirms he is that Shanye or a policeman shows all the necessary proofs such as birth certificate and all other IDs.
Dale, you are right. You can create as many as you want. I also know that some of Buzz sites are not working at all. That is why we still have doubt on Buzz. I am not fully convinced about the business.
But you guys go to the extreme. You guys announced 'this is a scam'. Your proof is far from enough. OS said other people removed his report. He is a lier if he cannot prove it. right? I hope you guys can work as scientists or philosophers, by which I mean you must know what proof can lead to what result. I see too much barbarian announcement without enough proof.
No more talk on this for me.
go furthur, all just nonsense!
1. Your report is not that simple, sir. Your report is a prosecution. you must work like a detector. unfortunately, you even didn't work like a journalist.
2. You are far from 'all aspects' of the business, sir. Lower listed so many items Buzz is doing. How many have you had a touch, not saying details?
again, you couldn't even answer my two simple questions:
prove Buzz didn't sell any property?
prove Buzz didn't get any payment from ads listings?
You cannot say they are facts
1. because you don't have all the details. Did you meet any of them for full details?
2. Your report is a serious prosecution. You have no right to give verdict. FBI has.
again, go to SEC or FBI. You are at the wrong place!
Word War III must stop now.
1. For longs, we accept OS report as a possibility - a possibility against a personel, not Buzz busniess. We see positive things in the business. That is why we are still here holding. As a common sense, we believe Buzz is selling property and getting payments from ads listings. Can OS, Dale prove that they don't sell any property and don't receive any payment from those listings? You must prove it if you think the business is not working!!! Otherwise, you are doing fiction.
2. For unbelievers, I don't see any other reason than shorts that you are still fighting here. We all know the possible 'facts' OS dished out. That is all. What do you want us to do? Dump our shares? We will not. Bring Buzz down? We don't have the right. SEC or FBI has. So, no reason for you to talk more on this. If you still have shares, sell and go. If you want to bring Buzz down, talk to SEC or FBI.
go to post 13355. I defined scam. OS concluded this is a scam with irrelated info. He didn't prove items in the definition of scam. If you can give a different definition of scam, we will discuss it.
So, OS's prosecution is about personel attack. Even if the CEO is led to a charge, it is not related to the business itself. So, we don't need to refute. It is the business of the prosecutor and the prosecuted.
understand?
If you don't believe in Buzz but still stay, we think you are shorts, or even underwear!
one more,
If it is personel attack or prosecution, please go to SEC or a court.
I think discussion is over.
If you believe in Buzz, stay!
If you don't believe in Buzz, sell and leave.
I don't think your list can prove it.
Instead, they have a huge list of property and ads list such as Napster, Delta, SingaporeAir, Flight Australia etc. Normally, we assume they can earning money with these. Can you prove that they didn't sell any property and those ads companies didn't pay any bill to Buzz for listing?
saying auditing, you should know the business is in Asia. SOL posted a lot of contract news and unaudited financial. The stock price was ~20. I don't know what is really going on about auditing. But I do know business in Asia is far from well regulated, by which I mean report on time and inform on time, not saying Buzz is in budding stage.
they posted 300m asset. In one way it is hard to believe it concerning the short business period. But in another, it is a solid data, solid enough to be presented in front of judge. Do you think a scammer would deliver this kind of data? I don't. Scammer only delivers info which can go two different ways so that they can avoid possible guilty charge.
Dal,
Before you claim a company scam you must know what a scam is.
I define a company scam as: The company is not earning money for shareholders. But instead,they are looting innocent shareholders by the cycle of dumping-issuing-dumping.
If you agree with me on this definition, you will see OS didn't prove 'the company is not earning money' and 'the company is looting others by the cycle'. OS is dealing with CEO's history which is not included in the definition. Conclusion is that OS is misleading. Further conclusion is OS has his own business, his own scam.
If OS is doing pure fair investigation, he must follow the logic exactly. But he is not. If he can prove the CEO is guilty and lead him to jail, leaving behind an innocent and smart management team, I will say thanks to him. But still that doens't lead to the conclusion that current business is a scam.
'buying lunch', 'eating lunch' and 'finish lunch' seem the same but actually huge difference. You guys must follow the logic exactly when you are talking about the business. I see OS is focusing on a history of Shanye instead of Buzz business (although he mentioned one or two points).
Shanye's history, if all you claimed is true, may put Shanye in jail.
But I didn't see Buzz business will put capt.Jack in jail. We don't know the details about the lies you mention. Even if they are really lies, they are not serious enough to put CEO in jail. Otherwise, most pink CEOs are in jail.
You are right. I don't know answers either. The question is: How can then OS conclude it is a scam?
1. I don't know how many here are convinced that Jack is the person you said. Only when the prosecuted agreed in front of policeman or court will I be convince.
Saying the other way, if what you said is true, can we imagine like this: A man had bad history but now he wants or is doing a good business. He doesn't want the good business is affected by the bad history. So, he is hiding. At the end, we come to the same conclusion: you need to prove this is a bad business, they are not earning money for shareholders.
2. sorry I didn't read about Buzz India
3. The hiring is always controversial. You say this way. He says that way.
4. I agree with you because they agreed they didn't hire yyk.
To name it a scam, I want you prove two things:
1.they didn't earn money for shareholders, but instead, they are rooting money from shareholder.
2.They are dumping shares and then issuing more and dumping again. This is the way to root innocent shareholders.
No way to prove and off topic.
I am not very interested in your proposition: what kind of person has what kind of chance of success.
Because what they are actually doing is closer to what chance of success.
Do you remerber that guy (I forgot his name) who was head of gang, killed several people, put in jail, then published many books to educate young people, then executed a couple of years ago.
More, so many successful businessmen were not outstanding students at all when they were young.
So, don't judge people's future with their ancient history. Instead, scrutinize what they are doing at this moment. I know it is difficult for you to get all the details. But as copyright officer says 'If you cannot get permission, it is better not to use'. So, if you cannot get plenty of proof, you cannot give a conclusion of scam.
You forgot the prerequisition on this discussion:
OS claimed this is a scam! It is him who needs much more proof to claim it scam.
I didn't claim this is already a successful company. So, I didn't to prove anything. I just pointed out OS's proof is far from satisfactory to claim it a scam.
1. You are definitely wrong to say that a CEO who runs a Biotech company has to be well experienced in Biotech industry. My own ex-CEO is far from what you said.
2. I also put in doubt the auditor and auditing. Maybe the company doesn't deserve $1 at all. But you cannot claim it is a scam. You don't have enough proof, although you have some. You are not qualified as a judge in any court.
3. If you are doing serious investigation, you have to talk to many employees.
All you are talking about is who he is. You are not going deep into the business they are doing. That is a huge difference. If we are talking about an oil company, what you need to do is to visit the field and look how they are drilling, how much oil they are pumping out, how they sell the oil for cash, instead of who are doing all these (while all can be done by different teams).
OS said SEC gave suspension due to his report.
Sand, can you give answers to my questions?
1. On a piece of blue thing in the report the names of Buzz management are showed up. Where is it from? Can you find on that Indian website? I couldn't see it.
2. Who is that 'father'? Do you see his ID (face)? He said he was robbed by his son. If Capt.Jack is his son, why didn't he sue his son while he knows he is there with his company and luxury boat?
3. There are longs here. The stock didn't sink too much since the report was out. It means people still have reasons to hold. Did OS give any analysis on this. No. He is not analyzing all aspects of the company. Instead, he is bashing.
4. If he is doing pure investigation, why is he murmuring so much in front of shareholders? Shareholders are not where to report an investigation. Shareholders have no right to suspend the company. The only reason is he hopes longs give up their shares (to him).
5. Did he visit any Buzz office, talk to any Buzz manager or employee? If not, he is not doing investigation. Think about how policemen do investigation.
6. He named this is a scam. Did he give proof that the company didn't sell anything for a profit?
7. How to explain that the company didn't dump and dilute shares? The company has hold ~300m shares for years.
8. they put ads on Bankok Post everyday. They spend money for what?
9. They are attending property expo. What do they spend money for?
10. Did you read DrTom edited by a professor from Cornell U.? That is a great site to care about our environment. Did you see OS care about our environment?
11. Buzz ranked about 1000 in China. They also have ads from Napster, SingaporeAir etc. All those mean exposure. For an ads network company, exposure means success ahead. Don't you believe in that?
12. Look at 12property. They have so many listings. Do you think they are all fake? If you think so, give me a piece of proof.
...
If we are all longs, definitely we will stay on topic. The question is shorts lead the way off topic.
You stay here, then we suppose you have at least a little bit hope on this stock. If you claim this is scam, you should sell and go and do your dd on your other hopes. For what reason do you waste your time here? If you are doing investigation to eliminate bad people, then just deal with SEC. SEC will act. Why here?
Everybody works for hope and profit. So bashers must 'waste time' for shorts. Reasonable?
Slo, can you ask if we can post reply messages in the same page. It is so bad that we have to click every one to open a new page to read. As on Yahoo or Google board, in a single page we can read through many posts. When it is about 20, then we can start a new page. It will be much energy-saving in this energy shortage epoch.
You are right. It is all a war between OS and Shaney in the air. Two figures with similar history. I have no interest. As mentioned many times, I care about the business itself.
I want to know how they are doing instead of who and what.
Cash sur-prize? come on, give me a bank and happy Christmas to ya all!!
I cannot confirm how good they are doing property which seems their major bussiness. At least we know property is a good business. If they can do a descent job on that the reseller you are talking about is only a decoration.
also, they pulled in some good ads.
the management team is not Capt.Jack only. How much you know about others?
If you say they don't have any substance, I suppose you visited every office/place they mentioned linked to their business. Did you do that?
current pps 0.01 can hardly be called scam. If only they have something valued at $1m, BZTG will deserve that pps. right? Not saying typically a scam play is the company pours their shares, delivers a R/S, issues more shares, then dump again, and again... This did not happen with pps reaches 0.05. If Jack dumped shares, he could easily get millions of dollars. You think he would give up this chance while the company is an empty shell? I don't think he is so stupid.
You and OS must know first how professional others prepare a report. They visit the company, talk to the management team and their business link. Investigation can not be done in a way of touching the keyboard. You know guys can make a website exactly like that of Bank of America and ask you give account info. OS report is full of doubts.
I know that. But 1/10 is too low if you put it on table for a bid.
I have two comments here:
1. 2006 report says 4 million barrels reserve. It means $400m value. Why PGPM only got $40m note? It is about 1/10
2. Is it possible that they already had new drilling and a report with a much great value? Then they transferred the asset to IMVS/ACLE. If this happened, would the MM get much more from other shareholders?
We will have 2 billion PGPM shares. And we will get 13 million ACLE shares? it turns out to be 154:1, not 500:1, right?
Your misleading is not smart and reasonable. Although we have doubts on the company, please don't think you are talking to little kids.
Future is not clear. So some guys panic and sell to avoid losing too much. Also, as some said, the company is dumping millions of shares.
Buyback and dilution are contradictory. Why dilution then buyback?
You don't think it is illegal to pour out more shares while they have announced buyback plan?
They are going to audit Buzz Inc. But they are going list Buzz Technologies (BZTG).
A previous PR says Buzz Inc pay debts for Buzz Tech. It sounds like Buzz Inc is the mother company and financial source. That explains Buzz Tech doesn't have much cash.
Am I right?
IPO date still in clouds!
You search Buzz tech, you can see a box, in which one is a link. you click the link you will see something. but most are not English. the 'information service' has to be purchased, I think.
Anyway, this is a dangerous game for Our-Street. He is trying to work as a professional security police. But I didn't see he worked as a professional at all. At least, for protecting himself, he should make a claim that anything he offered might be wrong.
As I said, one's history cannot be used for judge, esp. in the court. stocks can turn around at any time, so can people. You were in jail yesterday, you might do charity today.
The only two current issues are: IPO application and auditing. the former is empty because the company did not say they filed. As the later, he got info on the phone. Is that guaranteed no mistake? A trap can be set up for you easily, while getting the cheap shares and having a chance to sue you (or at least threaten you). Maybe it is not a scam at all. But when you are pulled in, they play a scam temporarily.
I didn't see Buzz is a scam at all. The price had been as high as 0.05. If, as said, Jack has more than 100m shares, he should have sold all for a big cash. The pps should be down by 10 times earliy on. But instead, the pps held at 0.03 for a long time.
How about forge a driver's license or passport of the 'father' so that the fiction will be perfect.
Buzz didn't say they filed the IPO application. You were apparently questioning the air. Why?
The auditing is the only issue. We all knew it.
You also forgot one thing: Something can be lied while some others cannot. For example, posting on Bankokpost everyday cannot be lied, acquiring a company cannot be lied, serving a client cannot be lied, ads such as Delta or SingarporeAir cannot be lied. Unaudited financial can be lie so it is questioned. You use your judge to put your money down.