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That's what happens when you have the head of JPM sitting as a board member of the NY Fed.
It's a joke.
"JPM knew(had some indication) that FED is not going to bail them out"
JPM sold 11.5 billion in stock, I believe on 9/26/08 to bolster it's funds as it took over WaMu.
This is one of the subtle little question marks as far as when JPM knew what.
They were out soliciting investors well in advance of the seizure. That's how they were able to raise this cash in a matter of hours.
I'm fairly convinced they were so hard up for cash (insolvent) at the time that even with FSB's 30 billion or so in cash, they still needed more to stay afloat and they just used the WaMu acquisition as an excuse to raise more without causing anyone to raise any eyebrows.
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/09/29/how-jp-morgan-raised-115-billion-in-24-hours/
"Three weeks before J.P. Morgan bought WaMu’s deposits for $1.9 billion, officials at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation had called J.P. Morgan to say that the FDIC was carefully monitoring WaMu and that a seizure of its assets was likely. The FDIC said it would want to immediately auction off WaMu’s assets if a seizure was necessary, people familiar with the situation told Deal Journal."
Go back and look at what the head of the OTS told Bair not to do... as in, NOT to go out and interfere with WaMu's ability to sell itself by reaching out to phone any friends to ask about interest in buying them via FDIC auction.
But obviously Bair did and the rest is history.
Of note, unless Bair called other banks as well, this little phone call mentioned in the article was in breach of the FDI Act as they gave an unfair advantage to JPM in the auction process.
Who else had 3 weeks notice to call around and raise cash?
"Here’s how it worked. J.P. Morgan picked 10 major financial firms that could help the bank raise money.
J.P. Morgan’s bankers called the 10 chosen firms and posed a question: the bankers were advising a U.S. bank that was contemplating a strategic acquisition of a retail bank, and a capital-raising could be connected. The bankers could not reveal their client until the bidding was done. Did the investors want to hear more? If they said yes, they would get details; if they said no, they would be left out in the cold on a deal that could potentially move the markets.
Nine of the 10 investors that J.P. Morgan invited said they were interested in hearing more. As soon as they agreed, they were asked to sign confidentiality agreements that would make them official J.P. Morgan insiders, which would mean that they could not trade in the bank’s stock."
You can bet your ehhh, fill in the blank that these banks might not have been trading JPM stock, but they were shorting the heck out of WaMu.
Be careful with that kind of thinking. I've got to remind myself of who we're dealing with on a daily basis. This is an elite law firm working (on the down low) for the benefit of one of the most powerful corporate entities on the planet.
They lie. They cheat. They steal. They don't play by the rules.
Don't underestimate them and don't ever assume they're pinned against the wall.
If Susman doesn't have them properly caged, Rosebuds and company will flail around like a wounded animal until properly put out of this misery they created, preferably by being removed from the case do to their conflict of interests.
Just try not to get your hopes up too high and don't underestimate these snakes.
But it does feel good knowing we're in as good a position as we've been in for almost 2 years... and it's this late in the game.
"...they have no other option"
WMI did ALL the taxes for current and former WaMu entities, which is why JPM and the FDIC think they're entitled to some of WMI's returns.
So, WMI has GOT to know more than they're letting on about the current state of assets and who owns what/should own what.
"Can we summon the docs of JPMC to see how they did THEIRS and then present this to the court?
I wonder how this was done."
WaMu doesn't pose a systemic risk anymore... But if you doubt they did when they were seized you might want to look into the Federal Reserve's perspective.
http://www.wamu-shareholders-resources.com/documents/interbank_market_HHH_jan09.pdf
On the bottom of document page three, pdf page four, the Federal Reserve says the financial crisis hit a third phase (the collapse) when the seizure of WaMu set off a rush of liquidity hoarding with the European Central Bank (ECB)."The amounts deposited with the ECB rise from a daily average of 0.09 billion euros in the week starting September 1, 2008 to a daily average of 169.41 billion in the week of September 29, 2008. Some of the major developments of the fnancial crisis are also indicated in Figure 2. The amounts deposited with the ECB start rising after the collapse of Washington Mutual when the crisis spreads outside the investment banking realm."
Also look up quotes from guys like Paulson, but long AFTER the fact.
WaMu was left off of the SEC Short Sell list because Dimon wanted WMI shorted into the ground, period. If the EC get's their way we'll probably find GS and BS have their fingerprints all over the shorting and better yet, each would be partaking in "insider trading" while doing it.
"WaMu did not pose systemic risk otherwise it would not have been denied protection from illegal short-selling by the SECs naked short-sale ban that protected 19 financial institutions
(eight of which were at Paulson's TARP meeting)."
Just so you know.... I AM WAMUQD on yahoo.
I don't know who the other dope is.
I believe the EC votes. Each vote is equal. Susman is there to advise like you said.
Again, if Susman went in there today and argued for an examiner the motion could have been put off again or (gasp) denied again, because he didn't give Weil enough time to give them the docs.
The clock is stopped til July 8th. Weil's POR is on ice and they are under pressure to make good and hand over what we want or we'll go for the examiner.
Likewise you need to understand, we're not going to settle for the first offer. Right now, we're setting the floor. Everyone should be thrilled about this turn of events instead of crying that now it's going to take a little longer...
Susman knows exactly what he's doing.
Now start asking yourselves why JPM revealed that million page investigation, and why now.
Here's some 8-ball for you.
Maybe JPM knows they're screwed and they plan on bringing down as many guilty parties with them as they can. No one needs to be exposed yet. The examiner is on ice til July 8th.
Maybe, JUST MAYBE they just exposed all of the other guilty parties to some of the heat, hoping they'll all pony up some cash in exchange for indemnification.
I have no reason to doubt that the investigation, MOST of which was compiled long before the EC existed is likely to have many dots which can easily be connected to the guilty.
I'm not saying this is happening... but it's definitely a thought.
Watch for a low ball offer. Then watch for Susman to push for the examiner and to push for the shareholder vote. By that time I'd imagine many of the guilty parties will be in full blown panic and will probably be willing to help JPM and the FDIC make us go away.
Just speculation on my part. Don't bank on it. Don't invest on it.
I am however betting on Susman. I think he's got Rosebuds in a box and as we witnessed today, Weil and the creditors are out of options. Without an examiner or vote pending, he's already looking for ways to include equity in the POR.
Today was a great day for equity. Stop complaining about a week or two when the DS is on ice throughout the same period.
Finesse... it's all finesse.
Set the floor now, then bring the heat. You don't want to deal with a low ball offer when you're about to slam them with an examiner. You want to go right for the jugular at that point.
"Exactly...let her give us the examiner and then we can negotiate from a position of stregnth rather than where we are now. I dont get it."
Think BIG picture here.
If you want to go nuclear, you'd best make sure you have the right coordinates.
If Susman marched in there to fight for an examiner, Rosebuds would have countered with "But we have an agreement and it's only been a day or two. It's going to take time to give it all to them."
Rosebuds figured he could delay the examiner motion long enough to get the DS through. However, Susman played his card... you push for the DS and we'll push for the examiner and tell the judge we have no choice. You're rushing the DS, while we're forced to trust you and to this point, you've given us no reason to trust you.
So now, Susman has negated Rosie's attempt at delaying the examiner and pushing the DS through.
On top of that we've now got a few weeks to see if the work product is A) Even given to us, B) Incomplete and worthless, or C) Usable for the formation of highly targeted discovery just like Walrath wants from us.
No matter what... we can't lose.
Then there's the little issue of the million page Senate investigation that JPM just mentioned to us. That was put together long before the EC existed. They didn't compile and sort 1 million pages AFTER Dec/January.
No one was expecting an EC at that point in time and certainly no one foresaw the possibility of those docs leaving friendly hands and landing in Susman's.
A million pages. How many 3rd party actions do you think are included in there? How many emails between JPM, the FDIC, the Fed, SEC, and others do you think are in there?
I don't think a settlement is going to happen any second, but I do know the only fight Rosen has left is less fight and more run, hide, delay, run, hide, and more delay.
Think big picture here. This is a war not a single battle. You don't want to risk losing BIG when a window for an all out knock down, drag out victory is looming.
Let's see what Weil gives us. Let see how we can use it to justify an examiner or use it to seek out highly specific, no brainer discovery docs that will showcase what we need.
In the meantime... lets find out a little more about that Senate investigation. Maybe contact some Senators and see what they can tell us about it. Something tells me everything we need to nail this thing down is going to come from that investigation.
We're just going to have to connect the dots that the Senate refused to look at... if it gets that far.
Hopefully, that investigation gives us what we need OR gives us enough justification to pursue specifics right from the source.
In the meantime, all we really need to do is show the judge that there's enough evidence out there that this "settlement" is a joke and move on from there.
I am hopeful, more than hopeful actually, that this is all very doable.
In the meantime I'm sure the MMs will play games and tank us hard. Rosen's DS was delayed all the same so one should negate the other. But something tells me they won't see it that way. :)
Keep your chins up and think about the war, not the battle. Don't let yourselves get so gung ho over all of this that you're willing to engage in a suicide mission rather than wait for the opportune time to do as much damage as possible with as few (if any) casualties as possible.
This is a game of finesse and strategy. It's not Fight Club.
Unless you're saying JPM is insolvent and can't afford to make the payment, then I think you are probably wrong in your interpretation.
"A guarantor is someone who pledges that a loan or other type of debt will be paid. Usually, a guarantor agrees to pay or perform another person's debt or duty should that person fail to do so."
"This Guarantee will constitute an unsecured obligation of the Guarantor and will rank (i) subordinate and junior in right of payment to all other liabilities of the Guarantor, (ii) on a parity with the most senior preferred or preference stock now or hereafter issued by the Guarantor and with any guarantee now or hereafter entered into by the Guarantor in respect of any preferred securities of any Affiliate of the Guarantor and (iii) senior to the Guarantor’s common stock. In addition, at all times such obligations will be structurally subordinated to the liabilities and obligations of the Guarantor’s subsidiaries."
"Guarantee is worthless based on your links."
WaMuQd Videos...
I don't have messaging capabilities on here so, shooting me messages that require a private reply is not going to happen. :)
Nobody needs permission from me to forward any of the WaMuQ'd videos to anyone.
Go for it. That's why they're there.
Yes I am and thank you.
"OMG - WaS - you are wamuq'd???? Never made that connection. Video is AWESOME!!"
It's currently #19 in Germany now.
Guess it's way harder to make a dent in it in the US. Too many people clicking on videos with chicks cleavage or about Gary Coleman dying... not that those aren't ehhh important topics.
Thanks for appreciating the vid. This one took me days and I still managed to leave a couple of typos in there... which pisses me off.
Thanks Fish... and everyone else.
Most of you have webcams built into your computers. It only takes a few minutes to ramble a bit and click upload. ;)
"We will get that ranking changed "moved up"."
No problem. Glad I can help, even if just a little bit.
"Thanks to you Wamuq'd for your great work!!"
Hey guys... Thanks for watching.
Currently #29 top viewed in "news and politics" in Germany.
Keep watching it and push the #s up. It get's a lot more exposure that way.
Also leave comments. When I made the video I wanted to make sure it would be something that would survive long beyond this case. Leave comments on youtube and let the world know what to think of Weil.
This is an effort to get the facts out about this case, as well as warning all future investors dealing with Weil about how big of scumbags they are.
If it helps motivate shareholders in other cases to try for an EC, trustee, or examiner to make Weil's live more difficult... then it will have served its purpose.
Rosen has made it a point to attack equity over and over and over. Now it's our turn to do what little we can to slap back.
I'd imagine it's not going to be good... It'll probably fill in the blanks missing in the last one.
I expect Rosen to say, "the lawsuits are unwinnable."
I think the fact that this is happening now, should really hammer home some serious ethical questions about this whole process.
But like I said a few hours ago, never underestimate this scuzzball.
He's not the top of his game for no reason.
I'm am on the edge of my seat ... I scared to even think what this means - please let it be good
I'm optimistic that the POR will be shot down, but I'm not stupid enough to underestimate Rosebuds and his ability to shock us all by pulling a rabbit out of a hat on Wed.
"I would not be so optimistic."
"When THJMW denied the examiner, she said something like the EC was going to have enough time to check WMI documents produced during the Discovery process. It was stated on that same hearing that they were around 7 million pages."
Nothing was ever said about 7 million pages. More like 70,000.
"Indeed, based on statements of counsel for the Debtors and
the Creditors Committee at the May 5, 2010 omnibus hearing, it would appear that minimal or no discovery has been conducted to date in connection with the various pending actions or potential
actions. In fact, despite the many billions of dollars at stake, it would appear that no substantive depositions have been taken and as few as 70,000 pages of JPMC documents (in total) have been obtained and reviewed by the estate fiduciaries who now advocate so vociferously in favor of the Global Settlement." -Page 18 of the TPS Objection
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229100511000000000004.pdf
So no depositions were ever taken. Weil was paid for scheduling them, but thanks to this settlement... How neat.
Look at Lehman to see what "examiners" actually do. Depositions, including those of key upper echelon employees of Lehman were taken.
If this POR is shot down, I would hope the EC would make a push to have the court OK them to go ahead with depositions while other personal sort the docs.
Then, you compare what you know from 3rd party sources with the discovery docs as well as depositions and look for the lies and obvious issues.
"Adding all facts, I presume Rosen/Weil will apply for a Exclusivity extension arguying (again) that the parties are near a Global Settlemen (again) even though I'm sure the EC is not aware of this second POR (again). Having seen how THJMW works, I'm sure she will agree to this new delay in order to not-break the current ongoing settlement talkings."
I'm not sure that's possible, let alone probable.
There are no more extensions. It's federal law. I'm not saying it can't happen because I'm certainly no expert, but everything I've seen says there's no way around the exclusivity period being over if this doesn't fly. Weil timed this for the last minute on purpose, which makes me leery as all hell about Rosen's got up his sleeve, but if this is shot down it looks like chapter 7 is the contingency and that'll be the next hurdle we'd need to get over.
"If the FDIC agrees to sign the (revised) POR, that would mean that the two main points of discordance they had before had been solved."
But that doesn't negate the plethora of deficiencies in the disclosure statement. Agreement or not, so long as the judge doesn't sign off on this clunker, competing plans will enter the fray with or without the a "global settlement."
I don't put anything past Rosebuds, especially knowing how to play this judge, since the two have a history together.
My main concern is what, if any shock he presents to the court on Wed.
If she shoots this thing down on Wed, I will seriously breathe a sigh of relief... and then I'll immediately start being paranoid that that was his plan all along. :)
But I'm just screwed up like that.
All we can do now is speculate and honestly, none of us are bk experts. We'll know more Wed.
I wouldn't worry about what the EC can or can't handle and I wouldn't worry about the judge extending exclusivity. I'd be worried about what theatrics Rosebuds is going to unleash upon the court.
"However the BAPCPA amendments limit this judicial discretion, forbidding the extension of the debtor’s exclusivity period for filing a plan beyond 18 months after the filing of the petition, and disallowing any extension of the exclusivity period for soliciting acceptance of the plan beyond a date that is 20 months after the filing of the debtor’s petition."
http://www.thompsonhine.com/publications/publication118.html
Objection of the Consortium of Trust Preferred Security Holders to Debtors' Motion for Approval of Disclosure Statement for the Joint Plan of Affiliated Debtors Pursuant to Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code (related document(s) 2623) Filed by Trust Preferred Holders(Davis, Kathleen)
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229100511000000000004.pdf
Page 18 they call Rosen out...
Did you read the whole article?
"It was a close call" She used those words yesterday.
Did you see who the lawyer was?
Did you see what the shareholders were claiming?
Like I said, I know nothing of the case. I don't know if it was similar or if it was different.
I do know the shareholders were arguing the same thing we are and she approved it anyway. Likewise, she turned down their valuation numbers and went with Rosen's POR instead.
Not saying it's worthy of panic or even an upset stomach. But there is a history between two of the main characters in this saga.
I found it wildly upsetting to see Rosen lie about the FDIC yesterday and to have the FDIC correct him and she had no input on that. Likewise he lied about something else pretty key as well... and it appears she knew he was lying about that as well and again, said nothing.
I expected something but no, I didn't expect that.
I also think the FDIC and JPM are lying and they're just waiting for the right time to make it public.
Can't imagine they'll put it off for the sake of the bondholders while we build a case against them.
They're trying their damndest to kill us and we need to slap back, hard and fast.
Hmmmmm.... Did you expect a Ch 7 motion last night?
They don't have to approve it. They can argue against it, but they certainly don't have to sign off on it.
And you guys should all read this. I know nothing about the case, but just so we're all clear.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wirestory?id=10481139&page=1
I'm not going anywhere, but this isn't a given and the EC does not have to approve the plan.
Seems like we will be able to object this POR until July. If that's the case, then we're better off than I initially thought. I hope the others are right about that.
How do you figure it will be a done deal especially when the EC has to approve the POR?
If the FDIC signs on to the deal (and don't think they won't since the longer they wait the bigger a case we build against them) then we have little to no time.
Walrath said we have the powers of an examiner. Fine. Look what Lehman's examiner did to the guys at Barclay's.
Susman should move to depose Bair, Dimon, Reich, and Cox RIGHT NOW. Ask all about the no short list, Project West etc etc...
And hope scheduling conflicts buy us some more time while we build our case around the depositions taken and the docs we desperately have to sort through.
100k pages of docs in a couple of weeks is NOT going to be easy. We need to slow this down... and now or Susman isn't going to have much of a chance to get this moving.
"From listening today, It sounded like full discovery to me?! What kind of time frame do we now? I think we'll be ok once Susman gets this movin!!!!"
And we're not afforded 150 days to get that work done either. The Judge simply said, "I think you'll have plenty of time." She didn't say, "I'll make sure you have plenty of time."
I don't think she gave a crap about the expense. She was afraid to jeopardize the settlement which Weil is trying to put together before exclusivity runs out.
Meanwhile now the FDIC either fights for the WMB bondholders and buys us time to build a case against them (yeah right) or they settle at the 11th hour and take our gift of cash and laugh all the way back to DC.
""Our" examination can be massively scrutinized."
John Abate, head of distressed and loan trading at JPMorgan, has left the firm to join Silver Point Capital, an activist hedge fund founded by ex-Goldman Sachs partners, LeveragedFinanceNew.com has confirmed...
JPMorgan has no plans to hire a new distressed trader. In February the bank hired Peter Lapina, formerly a distressed trader at Citigroup. The firm also recently hired Joe Beggans, formerly a senior bond distressed trader at Lehman Brothers, and Joe Faughnan, previously a high yield trader at Bank of America.
http://www.leveragedfinancenews.com/news/184403-1.html
And that's still an "if".
Seriously, this isn't Lehman. We're not going to have an examiner go through every jot and tittle for the next year.
The requests of what can and should be examined has been made and that list is likely to be widdled down into ultra specific areas if for no other reason than that of expediency.
If ALL of WaMu's loans were bad, JPM would be out of business not making record profits.
Nope, only in the prefs...
The same prefs they were telling everyone to buy via the Street.
If Rosen Xs out 150 days on his calendar, he'll note that if this is passed, his pos POR via exclusivity is out the window.
If THJMW opts to go with an examiner and she's willing to allow the funds to be spent... she's not going to rule on a POR before getting the results.
As far as I'm concerned, 150 days sounds good to me.
"Not thrilled with 150 days, but like a was saying before..."
Answer: Any money that goes to the estate makes all current shares more valuable.
You invested in a company, not in yourself.
If there's a class action suit where shareholders, as opposed to WMI sue JPM/FDIC for damages, then you'd only be talking about pre.
But that's not that this is. This is WMI, specifically the EC as the shareholders of WMI looking for reparations via the corporate entity in which we have invested.
We're looking to control the direction of the company. Any litigation brought forth by the company serves to enrich the company and in doing so, it indirectly enriches the shareholders.
"Question: If this goes through litigation would pre/post matter? would both see recovery ?"
I remember reading this back then and thinking "This person is nuts".
If you scroll down the thread you'll see mention of the 4 billion and it accruing no interest.
Gibson pointed out that it was strange if this was actually "adversarial".
He was spot on as well.
Feels like yesterday...
2019...
With both the WMB and WMI bondholders for one. Again, if you believed the pref shareholders could have taken a haircut for the sake of the commons then the bondholders are no different.
"I believe it to be wishful thinking on your part to think the ec can get these people to be that charitable in either a liquidation or reorganization scenario. The membership of the ec is irrelevant in the sense that preferred shareholders have not given them their power of attorney or proxy for the ec to do with them as they wish."
Maybe I misread you. I believed you said this had been your assertion, at least at one point. It certainly has never been mine.
The WMI bondholders can sell now and get 100% or more of what those bonds are worth. That's without a dime of money coming from WMI.
They bought injured debt, not a piece of an injured company seeking damages due to what happened.
THJMW bent over backwards to allow the WMB bondholders to argue their point due to potential fraud.
You're basically saying it happened and she'll find in their favor.
Maybe we should get some evidence relevant to that before we just assume that's the case.
At the same time, what did they pay for their bonds? What are they worth now? How many of them have already seen the value of those bonds rise beyond that which they would have made had they paid face and held onto them til maturity?
Likewise, the FDIC has 2 billion (as per Rosen) and as we've recently come to find, is still holding onto WMB assets of unknown value.
There's more going on with the WMB bonds and the FDIC than I'm going to get into here. People should check around on the other boards for more info on that.
As far as your opinions, you're entitled to them. I believe they're stacked upon safe bets on your part and trust me, I'm loaded with Ps. But I certainly don't believe that we know the outcome of the commons is certain either way.
Regardless of what Joyce said or what I said... and I agree with her, the FDIC can seize under dire times without being questioned...
However, you might want to read Susman's filing. If that seizure turns out to be part of a greater conspiracy then you're talking about a very diiferent can of worms.
In my opinion there are just far too many known unknowns to make anything more than semi educated guesses.
If this motion is approved, I will consider this a tie game going into extra innings. All bets are off. All stats and numbers are out the window.
Weil didn't pursue that which should have been sought. If we can find an end around them and so such... it's a different ballgame altogether.
All just my opinion.
Nope...
Still waiting on THJMW to sign the order and it looks like official news via filing will come days after they file due to back ups.
Looks like we could see the motion for an examiner before having a chance to read the vote filing.
They probably asked for the FDIC to guarantee a percentage of future loan losses like the FDIC did with IndyMac and oodles of other banks.
The deposits are liabilities.
Most banks you look up aren't over 100 yrs old.
You have to subtract the liabilities from the assets to figure out the value and obviously there were more liabilities than just the deposits.
At the same time part of the value that has to be accounted for in an event such as this is the value the bank/assets would be worth going forward.
WMI's rights under the 5th Amendment have been violated. This sets a scary precedent that is going to be exploited via the financial reform bill.
"In a reorganization u's might have gotten part of the preferreds slice, but the hedge fund owners of the preferreds are going to slap the u's hands as they reach for part of the slice in a liquidation scenario."
The hedge fund "ponys" are 1 vote of 5 on the EC.
If you think the prefs could have taken a haircut for the sake of the commons, then why not the bondholders?
The post seizure bondholders bought impaired debt.
Shareholders who bought part ownership in the company, bought shares of a company that we believe is owed restitution. The bondholders have likely made more off of those bonds already than they could have had they bought unimpaired bonds and held to maturity.
They can already sell on the market for for face value and some.
I'm not going to say your argument is invalid, but there are certainly too many variables to present such statements as if they are anything more than your opinion.
After a little 2019 disclosure and upon appointment of an examiner, watch for the POR to be substantially modified.
I was warning people to beware of Weil long before anyone else which as it turns out, was my greatest prediction and one I was truly sorry be to right about. It's certainly not something I look to flaunt.
I hold far more value in Ps than in Qs but it's my opinion that there's just too much up in the air to definitively know anything yet. If you choose to use this POR as a worst case scenario, which we all should be doing... then we're all screwed anyway.
But its illogical to attribute extra clout to the hedge funds, since they hold but on vote and the EC chair (also 1 vote) has 0 prefs. You'd need to know what the other 3 parties are holding to even speculate on such a statement as the hf and chair effectively cancel one another out.
We'll know more as we see and hear more from Susman, specifically his reasoning to justify an examiner.
But it is notable that he mentioned the "settlement" is calling for giving up the lawsuits which are the estate's most valuable "assets". The court does in fact view lawsuits as assets and that in my opinion will make selling this POR far more difficult for Weil to pull off.
You try being less brutal on no sleep. That post was my nightcap. :)
That was my take as well. Rosebuds had to be thinking... crap, I can't even just toss the prefs a few bucks to appease this guy.
How many shares did I buy... ehhh I don't know like a million or more. No, no prefs.
Muh hahahaha
That was played superbly.
Now Rosebuds is corned because his best play now is to try to paint the EC as "vultures" in which case we simply ask to know when the bondholders bought what and for what price.
Equity owns a company that was damaged. Holders don't have to have been damaged. They simply hold their shares and wait for the corporate entity to be compensated for the wrongs done to it.
Bonds bought post seizure however... that's debt held by parties that weren't damaged. Hell, if the WMB bondholders are right and WMI debt was bought for pennies, those bondholders may have already made more than they would have had the bonds matured.
This should start getting exciting shortly.
"IMO, by doing that, Susman put Rosen on notice that he intends to make things right with Equity all the way down to commons."
Yeah... That's why I made it a point to say it hasn't been verified yet.
Impressive as hell if that email was legit.
"I'm not saying it's not true ... I'd just like to wait until A&G files something to back it up!"
It was on yahoo yesterday...
I was already punished for linking to yahoo here once before, one of the reasons i don't do more to try to keep everyone here in the loop.
To read the thread over there search "Dewey & LeBoeuf Sells Bonds using JPM as placement agent"
That'd be the one.
Weird to see a legal team fighting JPM to sell bonds through them.
Still waiting for verification the D&L is "conflicted out".