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I missed all the action. What was the volume on that spike?
It is hard to believe that meeting in Vermont was only 1 year ago. It seems like longer than that. We were all desperately trying to save our dream at the same time the hot shots from Quebec were trying to destroy everything. Those guys have some stupid ego to sue (sew) the board members, as if that will ever recoup any losses.
Yep. Pretty short P&D! I heard RH still had his 11 mil. shares. I bet he doesn't have too many of those now.
Lots of one time longs are going to want to sell if this goes anywhere. I hope you thought of that.
yeah, that's right! It's all better now. Of course, I have seen stocks go to 12 cents that resold canadian public water or sold products to dissolve pig poop. Hey, combine those 2 and you got the perfect pinky! Well, EFFC die hards remember this truth, pigs get slaughtered. Pick a reasonable target and get out while the getting is good.
aye yi yi
The Quebec investors forced the BK.
Really sad. You'd think guys with so much so called business savvy would have seen that coming. Now all money is going to lawyers rather than to developing a product. What a waste. It looks more like a low rent divorce proceeding than anything else.
I hope you are not suggesting that manipulating stocks is justifiable to offset losses, BTW.
Try 30 times that.
Could be manipulation, as in run up the SP and try to sell into it. Not a lot of gain though. Seems like a lot of work for measly 3K.
Why would there be debt attached when the thing is in BK? That makes no sense.
Yes, the cases seem remarkably similar. Just waiting for the dust to settle here.....
Of course, it is not a surprise that Bain's group has already formed another company. As for the rest, if the BOD does not represent shareholders they are subject to legal action.
I agree. Just as the trustee took around 500K in the BK of Biocognisafe. The only way for Bain and the other "little" pigs to regain their losses is to acquire the tech and flip it or attempt to run a company (unlikely). No other creditor will get a dime in BK and Bain, Belanger, and Bertone will have wiped out all value for shareholders and creditors alike. This was their plan from nearly the outset.
The only creditor who will be paid is the one Gordon Bain bought out to force the Bankruptcy. Everyone else is screwed by the tug boat stud and his minions.
Maybe former promoters who were chin deep in the game will have new careers as pinky bounty hunters! Shoot, they will probably find a way to play both sides of the game, as they always do. Just another turn of the page in the never ending, always changing story huh?
Yes, Belanger and Bain filed lawsuits against the board members. Throwing their weight around trying to intimidate. These guys are real arrogant SOBs. Stupid and arrogant. Arrogant because they decided to steal this technology rather than supporting this company for the benefit of all shareholders and stupid because they think they can get away with it and get their gambling losses paid for by other shareholders.
I was thinking the same thing. When everyone us telling you to give up, that is when you fight harder.
Would a Canadian judge allow US shareholders to force BK of a Canadian company and steal the tech on the cheap by putting their own team to evaluate the value of the IP after having forced the bankruptcy by buying out someone else's debt? How much more horrible can this look in a court of law? These guys are as arrogant as anyone could possibly get. How will a US judge look at these actions?
Bain and his Group are attempting to cover their own losses by forcing all the faithful shareholders of ECT to pay for them. These self serving greedy guys feel justified in taking the company BK just to line their own pockets.
Why focus on Gib? Bain is the rat who bought out a tiny little debt and forced the BK. Gib has worked on this for 5 years and has done a great job. In the end however, there is a point where shareholder interests have to be represented by shareholders and not the BOD.
The Bain group will gain nothing in the BK unless they can acquire the IP. There have been so many bogus creditors jumping on the bandwagon to get a piece of the carcass that if this truly goes into auction, no one with a real debt owed will get anything but a fraction of the value they are owed. So, why would someone force a BK with a debt that they purchased from another? Because they intend to buy the tech and sell it separately, steal it basically, from shareholders who have funded the development for 2 years with millions of their hard earned dollars. Do you think that people who have already invested hundreds of thousands each are going to let ANYONE steal the IP and simply transfer it to another company without a fight? Wouldn't most shareholders who have held onto this company through thick and thin over the last few years at the very least enjoy causing Bain, Belanger, Corey or whomever some major trouble, both financial and in the public eye. The same goes for anyone hoping to make back door deals with any party in this thing.
What I find really frustrating is that we have people squabbling when a product that is worth more than any anyone of them really can comprehend is going to die on the vine or be sold for a pittance. It is truly sad that this life saving product is suffering this fate. Greed and stupidity are combining to create a scenario where nearly everybody loses. People invested in the company without even really understanding what it was that we have. So now they want to force a fire sell so that their investment partners can buy the tech. They are going to make fractions of pennies on the dollar for all their efforts and they have left themselves open for lawsuit after lawsuit. The fact is that if people must wait for this to go to auction, by the time this tech gets out of court it will be as out of date as a walkman.
Papa is not currently involved in EFFC management nor do I beleive he ever was. I can honestly understand the temptation to get financing in this way. There are people who have lost huge amounts of money on this company and were desperate to at least get out with a portion of it.
Hey, I know it is really weird, but that was the plan I was given at first. Now before you act like this is out of left field, think about it. Jason Shin was also presented as a possible CEO, yes he has experience in running a major corporation, but his current company NVSR is financed by the notorious Mr. Papa and in fact Papa is the president. Papa is really Mr. Shin's boss. Anyone who has invested in NVSR knows that this stock was RS'd after a few pumpy PR'S. The plan I first heard about included having Papa become president of EFFC for a short period (who knows how long really). How many shareholders do you think would go for that plan? Then, after a few of us expressed strong concern about his involvement, we were told that Papa was suddenly not going to be involved but no one would say where the financing would come from. This was presented to us in conjunction with that Korean deal. The Korean deal is legit, I believe, but the bridge financing was the problem. I just could not stomach it.
Believer, that is what I wanted to know too. I could never get a consistent or believable answer.
What in the world are you talking about? The American shareholders have the same interest as the Canadians, which is to protect shareholder interests in what is a tenuous situation. You are right that we had a good chance six weeks ago and oddly enough it has not changed that much even in bankruptcy. Bain, not US shareholders, forced the company into BK. In the end he will also lose if this Patent is allowed to languish any longer, which will certainly be the case if more litigation ensues. Others are working on this product and time is of the essence. I certainly would not and did not support any shady financing deal through Tony Papa. I would rather lose my money than snooker unsuspecting sheep into a phony stock deal, despite the temptation this may present.
Well, if that is the case, it seems particularly malicious for Bain and Belanger to refuse to accept the payment for their bought out debt. I am assuming from your posts that they are not going to make a bid on the technology if it ever comes to an auction. Doesn't that seem pretty petty to attempt to screw over your fellow shareholders for something you have no interest in? Is that the actions of an honorable business man?
I think this is true. The Canadian company is separate from the American company.
Why someone petitions for BK may or may not matter in Canada, but the nefarious nature of Bain and Delanger actions was noted by the Canadian judge, which is important for other reasons.
But let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Canadian company was bankrupted, not the US company. What actually is owned by the Canadian company? You can bid 1 dollar, but what are you getting?
Yeah right. Now Mr. Bain bought a debt for 20K just to force the BK. It seems like you hope to persuade us that he should get the tech for cheap. Forget you.
People can claim they are owed money but if they have no judgment to prove the claim is true it doesn't matter. Axyom made a deal with RH that was illegal according to Delaware law. Do we have to pay an illegal deal? I don't think so. There was only one judgment issued by a court against ECT and that was for the EEG machine company. Bain bought that debt to force BK and then he refused payment when it was offered. There is not 5 million in legitimate debt. More like 500K.
These last two posts might need some interpretation. But again why even bother? If this is a dead stock why even waste any time and energy on this any longer. This is not how it's done. You are a professional. You leave quietly when job is completed. Why would anyone would have any emotional investment if they don't have any financial investment? Not you, for heavens sake, of course, but others. What I have heard about court decision is a bit of a head scratcher for all involved. So nothing is simple here.
I do know this. I am actually quite excited about filing a class action lawsuit against Gordan Bains and A. Belanger should it come to that. One of the benefits I like about having a lot of friends with money in this stock. We have a great case and the judge opened lots of doors today with his comment.
I may be out of allotted posts today. If I am will be back tomorrow.
I still don't understand why you care if you believe that Bain has successfully bk'd the company and will eventually get control of the patent through this backdoor method. You and Doogy are lamenting that shareholders are wiped out at this point anyway. Why would it matter to us if Gib sells the software to some Korean company to alter and sell in their vehicles? We are already screwed in your opinion, with no recourse to even successfully sue Bain. After years of hearing from Doogdillinger that we only own an empty shell, I can say it is somewhat of an amusement to hear him admit that there is actually a product and valuable one at that. But is does seem like a waste of emotional energy to get too worked up about what Gib is doing in Korea when we are supposed to be dead and buried here in Canada/US. I would say that Caroni and Bain should be more worried than shareholders if the scenario is truly as you and Doog have described. Gib would be running off with Bain's property not ours. Again, why do you care?
But as you said at the end of your post, Gib has taken the CRAM abroad before and he has not managed to leave it on a bus or in a taxi so far. Just as ECT has been declared dead and buried many times before and manages to keep going. We'll see what happens.
Yes, unfortunately this will be tied up in courts forever unless all participants, creditors, shareholders can be offered something. Everyone wins or everyone loses. I will give them the poison pill if I have to.
I think shareholders have a good case, particularly in light of what the judge at the bankruptcy hearing said with regards to Bain's intent. Bain does not stand to make any money off this deal unless he can gain control of the patent, i.e. buy it or have a surrogate or investment partner buy it, assuming of course that this goes into liquidation. It is a paltry sum for a group as large as ours is to pay for class action, so of course it is a logical step if and when the Delaware company is targeted.
After all what> Bain and crew took us BK, not Gib. The board has put up substantial cash over the last month. I call that putting your money where your mouth is. Talk is cheap, btching is cheap too. Real action does not happen on chat boards. We will see Mr. Bain in court.
Now that is funny. Gib is an honorable family man and he is being accused of a crime by you now. I am starting to recognize a certain level of paranoia not seen since the Downshire days, if I may be frank. Gib was scheduled for months to make a trip for his other company, a company which has products which are synergistic with ours. He is actually an excellent asset to the company. He has a caliber of professional achievement that has helped ECT remain credible through much of it's travails. These are real scientists working on a real product, not making Dog sponges or selling tap water and things which are more familiar to pinksheet players. Gib's trip can bring interested parties to this product. As a shareholder and owner of this patent I welcomed this trip. Will Bain's group derail our chances? I guess we will see.
I am perplexed by attacks on Gib all of the sudden. Everyone says this is a dead shell and always has been. No one has been buying the stock, none of these commentors anyway. I guess everyone has to have their two cents worth, still lots of breath wasted on something one is describing as dead and buried.