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I don't know about that.
<<I placed a bet that no reverse will happen >>
This may surprise you, but done right I am a SUPPORTER of another reverse. I'll go into detail why on a later post, but a strategic reverse could do wonders for the shareholders. More later.
neb, understanding those long babbling posts is what making money in the market is about. Buy low, sell high? Knowing math and how things truly work makes it so you CAN have more profits than losses. I spent 20 years on Wall Street, and was successful BECAUSE of the exhaustive research I did on my own to figure out things like market cap versus stock price and dilution and figuring peaks and valleys and all that.
My lesson was on dilution and how it affects stocks - including how it will addect DPBE in the future. I see by your reply that you didn't understand it. That's fine. But please don't knock something that is informative to many, just because it is above your head. Deal?
Dwp, I want to respond to what you said, but I am talking about pie charts in this post, NOT just DPBE. Showing you that you made what I consider a mistake. Please read my post, and then see what you think.
<<I may need to draw some people a pie chart.....same amount of pie=100 slices, 1000 slices, 10,000 slices- if I own 5% of the pie, the size of the slices don't matter, the number does not matter.... 1/20th or 5% of the pie is still mine as long as it's (a cash pie)....
>>
On the surface, this soiunds right. But in reality, this is not how it works with stocks. Let me try to explain.
You have a pie. You buy 5 pieces of a pie that is 100 pieces big. Using your illustration of 100 pieces in "one" pie. YOu say if it is cut into 1,000 pieces, it doesn't matter, becaues you still own 5% of the pie. NOt if there is dilution. Follow me please. If you own 5 pieces of the 100 piece pie (5%) and then the company comes out and says that they are ADDING more pieces, your percent goes down. Because they are not talking about cutting the 100 pieces up and turning that into 1000 pieces. If they did that, your 5% would still be 5% and you would be RIGHT. Instead, they say "Okay, total pie is STILL going to be 100 pieces, but each of the old pieces is now only 1/10 of one piece." NOw it takes 1000 "pieces" to total 100 as the whole, but each piece is worth only 1/10 of a piece. Follow on that? The pie still has 100 pieces. Call them percent, as it is still 100% of a pie. But you own? Yes, you own 0.5 of a slice instead of the 5 slices you original owned, since your 5 pieces was cut to .5 You now own not 5% but 0.5% of the pie. See the difference?
NO, a reverse split does NOT do that to you. I know that is the first answer. A reverse split cuts your part down to 0.5 pieces, but also reducses the total from 100 pieces to 10 pieces. yes, I know that. If a reverse happens, and that is ALL the happens you STILL own 5% of the pie. However - if AFTER the reverse split that dropped the total down to 10 pieces, then the comapny sells NEW shares for another 90 pieces, THAT is what dilutes you down to 0.5% from 5%. Make sense? Let me show you using DPBE as the real example. I thinkthat might be simpler. :D
We had 100 million "pieces" (Shares) in our "pie" That grew to 500 million shares over a year or two. Because the comapny needed money to run and had no revenue. (remember,I'm not bashing. Just stating how the share structure went.) then we hit our limit,as we only authorized 500 million shares. Here's where it got bad though for your "pie". they took the "whole" pie, which in this case was 500 million shares, and reversed it 1 for 5. So if you owned BEFORE the reverse 5 million shares (1% of the 500 million share pie, for my illustration) then after the reverse you owned 1 million. But 1 million shares of a 100 million pie - yes STILL 1%. See? The reverse did NO damage, And followed what you said exactly. But then ... the comapny kept the authorized at 500 million, NOT back to 100 million. they quickly sold new shares, and we were back to 500 million by the end of 2010. Now you owned 1 million shares of 500 million shares in total, and you were reduced from 1% of the total pie to 0.2%. That's where the dilution DOES matter when you say 100 pieces is the same as 1,000 pieces or 10,000 pieces. It is not if th enew pieces are grafted in and not just cut from the existing ones. Now, step two. they raised the authorized shares AGAIN. this time to 2 BILLION. ANd lo and behold ... since 1/1/11, we have gone from 500 million to almost 2 billion shares. NOw you still own the same 1 million shares, that USED to be 5 million shares of 500 million outstanding (1%) and you own 1 million shares of 1,900,000,000 outstanding. YOur 1.00% ownership has gone to 0.05263%. NOt even 1/10 of 1%. About 1/20 of 1% instead. YOU have 19 other shares outstanding for each of your one share to equal the same percentage of 1%. Put another way - you would have to buy another 18 million shares out of your own pocket (At cheap prices at least!) to get back to the 1% ownership you used to have. If you do not, then dilution HAS changed your ownership, and the 100 pieces going to 10,000 pieces HAS diluted you down to 1/20 of 1% ownership when just 18 months ago you woned 1% of the total pie.
I hope that all makes sense to you. believe me it is true. I used to work mezzanine financing for Merrill LYnch and was a broker (years and years ago. DOn't take advise from me on what to buy. lol) and this Did change your ownership from 1% to 1/20 of 1%. Just since the split.
See why I say that your point of 5% of 100 versus 5% of 1000 vs 5% of 10000 being the same is not valid? Because you no longer own 5%. YOu are "diluted" into about 1/20th of what it was compared to the whole. That's the problem.
I'm not going to get into WHY the stock was diluted. If WIlf couldn't sell shares, maybe we would have ZERO shares right now. We would be closed and broke. there are qarguments both ways. I'm just trying to show you about the pie chart. Just explain to you (and Blue and maybe a few others) that it DOES make a difference when the treasure DOES come up. That our portion of the split is LESS after dilution. So the shares structure WILL matter as to how much the shares are worth. Will they be worth MUCH more than now if we strike it big? ABSOLUTELY (IMHO). But don't miss the fact that dilution WILL affect your PORTION of that pie, as the pie adds new shares that are not cut from the old ones, but adding TO the existing ones.
Hope that helps some in economics 401. Now back to the usual bickering from both sides on this board.
Nope. It was normal. There were two people wanting to buy at 31, and he got it and I didn't. Then the ask moved up, and so I didn't fill after that. NOt manipulation. Just two buyers both wanting to buy the same stockon the same ask and there were not enough shares offered at that low of an ask for both of us to get filled. Hey - that's a GOOD thing.
that's TWICE. I was on at 0.0031 all day and got ZERO shares. They went to your dad instead! Time for you to have that talk with him.
On the positive side though ... today was a zero gain day, but a GOOD zero gain day. We started at 31 mills on the price, but a bid of 28 and an ask of 31. We ended at 31 mills, but with a bid of 31 and an ask of 41. BIG improvement.
SOme zero gain days are better than other zero gain days.
So HE'S the one who screwed up my order to buy, ehh?
I was probably the second highest buyer of the day. But not NEAR what I wanted. I think we competed against each other.
If we let it settle, maybe we can both get it back in the mid 20s again. lol. We'll see what happens the next day or two.
Of course I did (Have problems filling today.)
I started out good this morning, as you can see by the volume early. Then it dried up. I moved my bid all the way up to 30 but they moved the ask to 31 (31 mills, which is 1/10 of a penny each mill. tat's the term for that price) then I dropped my bid back to 29 mills and that is where I am staying for now. I think I have a little over 1 Million shares to go - IF they fill any more.
Love the word "billion". But boy do I cringe when I hear it will be announced in "two to three weeks". Just a term Wilf has used over and over again to mean "In the future, maybe soon, maybe not, and maybe never".
But I"m thinking some good things are coming. I'm actually gong to buy some on the open tomorrow. So you uberbulls will not be rid of me as quickly as you hoped. LOL. But tomorrow I hope to add a few shares.
Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Next time you place an order, specifically look for an "AON" box that may be checked. It may be automatically there, and unless you uncheck it then it stays there, and your order is automatically all-or-none. Etrade used to do that on some trades over 300 shares. It was something I had to make sure wasn't checked.
If that box is not checked, and you are in at the ask or higher, then they are obligated to give you at least one trade there. And on this stock that is 5,000 shares. Not that 5,000 shares is much, but that is the minimum, and most of thetime you get more than that.
Try it again tomorrow. make sure you are on the ask or higher (Don't go to 0.004, or "somehow" they will find a way to FILL you there. lol!) and then after about 45 minutes or so if you are not filled CALL them. Show them that you are at the ask or higher, and ask them why they are not filling you on a partial. WHoever you talk to should say "I can't tell what the problem is. I have to call on that to the market maker." IN reality that is the truth. they can not see the issue since it is not on one of the markets. But atht will force them to call onyour order and the MM should fill you on some shares immediately when they call. Maybe even all of them.
Hope that helps.
If the ASK Is at 0.0028, then you should fill on at least 5,000 shares. Do you have it as "all-or-none"? That would affect your order and possibly casuse it ot not fill. If not, then the ask should fill some of your order, then move up to the next lowest ask. If that is another person at 0.0028 or 0.0029, then you should get the minimum of 5,000 from that person too. More if they are offering more.
HOw did it turn out? Did you get any shares? Have it as all-or-none? Was that the bid or the ask when you placed it? Let us know.
Can - I think a reality show would bring a little money into the company, depending on whether it was something DPBE was the star of or whether it was something DPBE put together and was trying to push.
But either way, the exposure it would bring to us would be wonderful. I see it as a positive "if" it happens.
Thank you to Capt Billy for his post. Glad to hear all is going well, and really appreciate your sharing that story with us.
Be well my friend. Keep yourself well.
My best to Billy.
Get well big guy. glad to hear you are out of the hospital already.
Oh, and just for the record.
Although I do NOT normally do this, I want to help you see that it is not required of you to try to prove everyone else is always wrong and you are always right. Show that you TOO say things that you think are correct but turn out wrong.
It is NO problem. But it happens.
<<our goodwill and ability to show we were there for the long haul led to our exclusive contracts and being the only company recovering in the DR.
>>
We are NOT the only compnay recovering in the DR. I know of at least two others recovering in the DR. Sorry, but you are wrong. One well known company that is talked about here often is on the north side (Although not doing a great job of it, according to most) and a new company is working on the east shore. They were there in February working, and shall be back next month for the season.
See Neb? it is easy to say things you think are true but turn out to be not true. Doesn't make you an evil person though. YOu've done it on other things too. But it doesn't matter. I don't WANT to discuss where you were wrong on things like this. NOt a good discussion. NOt worthy of the board. We knew what you meant. We know what you think on most of your posts. It's all about exchanging ideas though, not attacking people as wrong on all posts. You were wrong on that specific post, where you attcked others for being wrong. No one called you out on it. And STILL I'm not calling you out on it. Just showing it to you to show that you need to cool down, as you take little things too harsh.
Fair enough?
If it was on the website,then I was wrong on that. But we did not get to vote on it like the increase from 100 million to 500 million. And I personally missed it on the website, didn't know about it, and then called Wilf on the show to ask him when it happened. He told me (On the MOnday evening show) that it was done with a few phone calls. that is what I said when the topic was on the board. What Wilf himself told me. So if it was on the website, then thank you for showing that to me. It makes me relaize I need to look at the site more often.
Neb, changing topics - I have the feeling I could say "the sky is blue" and you would say "it is clear. It is an illusion. If you put some in a bottle, you would not seee an blue. You are wrong." SOmetimes I am wrong. Sometimes I am not. BUt no matter what I say, you attack it. Step back and breathe Neb. I'm not the enemy.
Even on this issue, I posted that there were two different increases, and you guys were talking about two different things. I think you still are talking different than what Can is talking about. YOu mentioned a vote. that was the increase from 100 million to 500 million. One was done without telling the shareholders, aLthough it was apparnatly on the website (how long do you think it was there? ONce he got the shares did it come down? See? I even ask you for information when you have it and I don't.) I was saying what Wilf told me on the show and yet you tell me how wrong I am. (If so, then say that WILF was wrong, becaseu Wilf is the one who said it was done with a few phone calls. If you can find the old shows, you will hear him tell me that. I talked to him for almost the entire show, and it was posted about the next day, so you can use this board to narrow down which show it was. I also said I was not attacking either side based on my post, but trying to let the two of you know you were arguing a different moment in time and could not come to agreement since they were different things you each were talking about.
I say some good things about the company. I say some bad things. I think that is how ALL companies are. BUt at times I get the feeling that because I am not 100% on the bullish side that some people (ahem) take a "seek and destroy" attitude towards anyone who says anything negative. And they defend anything negative the company does so it does not stand as a post. ANYTHING. IN reality, going from 100 million shares outstanding to almost 2 billion shares outstanding over a 3 - 4 year period is a terrible thing to happen. And it is NOT a "normal thing that happens with piunk stocks". They don't normally dilute 2000% over a few years. Most do NOT have 2 billion shares out there. (We don't either ... yet. But I worry we WILL. Soon) That dilution over a short period of time means anyone who used to own 1% of the company stock now owns a little more than 1/20 of 1% of the company. It is terrible dilution, even afor a pink. It will probably cause another reverse split at some point, IMHO, to bring the share count down. And it means when they DO bring up those wonderful pieces of cheese that they are split so many ways now that the shareholders who owned back then will get such a small piece of cheese that they may never be made whole even after SUCCESS under the waters. Saying that STILL doesn't make me the "enemy" though. Just a concerned SHAREHOLDER. I've also mentioned mezzonine financing to Wilf as a way to finance at times versus all the dilution. On the show and privately. I've talked convertibles, and he said there was not much interst. I mentioned "I" would be interested in a portion of any offering. I think saying one way of financing a company (Lilution) an doffering other options that might work is called constructive criticism. And doesn't need you to attack every post that mentioned that dilution is a BAD thing when taken this far. So allow me to say the sky is bluie, even though I know in reality it is clear (or brown in many places) and then realize that the company has good AND bad points. That's why some on the other side say some people drink the kool -aid. It means they ONLY see positive , no matter what, and that even if Wilf killed someone (He never would, and I"m not saying he would) a real kool aid drinker would say "that person deserved to die". OPen your eyes to the whole picture. Present your side too. A nd when you have extra facts, like the website announcement, it is GOOD to see. thank you for that. But treat all people here with respext. When someone brings up one of the bad points you can say "but it has good too" but don't just get angery and try to refute even accurate statements just because they are negative.
By the way - who or what is this "core four" that you are talking about? I must have missed that conversation too. What is that all about??
A clarificationon the point about the increase of authorized shares.
There were two increases. We had 500 million and were maxed out. Wilf wanted to do a reverse and drop us back to 100 million. But that would also drop the authorized to that. SO he put on the website and emailed out his request to keep the 500 million as the authorized, even AFTER the reverse split. We all got a chance to see that, and vote on it if we wanted to. Neb, that is what you are remembering. Yes it was on the site and also in emails.
Then, after that increase, Wilf decided to increase it to 2 billion authorized from 500 million. that one he did (And told me directly how he did it. NOt a rumor, nor an insult. Just stating what he told me) that he called some people, had the amount of votes needed, and then just "did it". So that one, which Can is talking about, is the one where we were NOT notified, and the authorized increased to 2 billion from 500 million not only without a vote but also without even notifying us AFTER the fact.
Those are the two instances, and you are both talking about a different timing. Just FYI. Not taking sides, just letting you know you are are talking different events.
I thought ORRV sent their boat to the DR to work for DPBE? didn't we have the boat arrive in the fall, and it is there to assist DPBE work a second site? What is this about the Philipines, if their boat is in the DR?? ANyone know anything?
What IS the float? OUtstanding?
LiveFree.
You have a simple mistake in your calculation. You take the outstanding of any company (Which is ALL shares) and then eliminate those that are not free trading and you then have a lower number, which is the float. But you started with the float number, then took the restricted shares off the count AGAIN.
Here, let me show you.
<<We start with
896,000,000 – the float number given by the transfer agent.
271,000,000 – the number of shares Wilf says are being used as collateral for loans and can't be traded. >>
You have more, but let me use that to show you. YOu say those shares can't be traded, which means they ARe part of the outstanding, but NOT in the float. Don't subtract those shares again. They were taken off to GET to that float.
See the difference?
So the float does not decrease down to 319MM after taking those and your others out, but decreased down TO 896MM after the restricted shares are taken into consideration.
As for Wilf's personal shares? they WOULD be considered in the float, since they are free trading shares, so yes you can say they are not "Available", and that would lower the amount if someone wanted to buy in the open market. So the available shares at this level would be less than the float, just like if you said your shares are not for sale they would still be in the float but not available. But if someone offered $1,000 per share, I bet you ... AND wilf WOULD sell some shaers. True? (I know that is a silly price to use, but it's just to show my point.) Shares that are not for sale but in the float COULD be sold - IF the price was high enough. For you. For other bulls. And for Wilf. Yet the restricted shares would not be sold even at $1,000 per share, becasue they were "restricted" adn COULD NOT be sold.
I hope that shows you the difference.
Now - two other points. FIrst, restricted shares CAN be sold, with a registration of the shares. Many shares not in the float now could probably meet the requirements to be sold, and are not in the float only because the people have not filed a form 144 yet. Don't count on "all" the restricted shares being locked up as restricted forever.
Secondly, even if it is "only" 819MM in the float, remember that 2 years ago we had a reverse split that put us back to 100MM shares OUTSTANDING (not float). Our dilution has been almost 2000% in 2 years, and the float is over 800% higher than the outstanding was at the time of the reverse. All this while Wilf was "saying" that the company needs about $120,000 per month to survive and that he was supplying over 3/4 of that. Yet we sold 1,800,000,000 shares or so in that period, which even at our low price is a LOT more than the amount needed to run the company. With all the dilution, even if (when) the company does well in the future, the sharesholders will be so diluted that it will trickle down to us in SMALL amounts, and we will probably NEVER ever ever EVER see that $1 per share party that was talked about a long time ago. The company would have to be given a market cap larger than many national companies have right now in order to get to that price. In fact, I personally think (Now moving off of the lesson on float to opinion) that the comapny will never have a great rise in share price at all, just becuase we keep shooting ourselves inthe foot with overt dilution. I think Capt billy WILL be successful in finding some good things. BUt we have SOOO Many shares outstanding now that WIlf has given away our ability to proifit handsomely from those finds. ONe small example. Oddeessey is a MAJOR company in our field. they have many boats, numerous treasrures, and although they have some issues they are MUCH bigger than we are. They have a market cap of $217MM. If we wer to go to a DIME, we would be at the same approximate market cap as they are. Do you think we deserve to be as high priced as Oddessey? I don't. In fact, I think as a company we would be doign WELL to have 1/10 as much treasure as they do. 1/10 as much boat assets as they have. 1/10 as much of an organization as they do. Corporately I"m talking. ANd yet, that owuld mean a limit oe one cent on our stock to equal 1/10 of oddessey. ONE CENT. So I'm hoping (again, personally) that we have some good news out, we jump up, we go PAST the 1 cednt mark, and then I will probably sell. Becuase we can do well as a company, but we have been diluted SOOO far that we can NOT sustain a higher price. NOt with 2 BILLION shares outstanding to split those artifacts. How many shares does Odessey have outstanding? 66 million or something like that?? Versus two BILLION. So yes, the float AND the outstanding ARe important, and I think both are too HIGH.
ANyway, your question about float is all I really wanted to answer. You goofed by taking the restricted out of outstanding to get float, and then taking them out of float again. SImple mistake. No biggie. But, that's the accurate answer you asked for.
Yes I believe that is true. I remember Wilf saying something about it a while back.
Neb, you are not dealing with reality, and you are attacking people with claims that are actually wrong on your side.
Let's look at your last two posts.
<<you and your clans constant regurgitaion that every share of volume is caused by Wilf is just beyond ridiculous, without a shred of evidence to back it up.>>
There IS evidence that Wilf has sold shares over and over again. It is that at the end of 2009 the share count was exactly 500 million shares. Yet it ended 2010 at almost 1.5 billion shares. that means just shy of 1 billion shares were sold by the treasury in 2010. That to me is evidence that ... the company is selling shares. WHich is what people said. It can't be ridicuous if the numbers back it up. can it?
Let me ask YOU. Do you not think that the outstanding going from 500 million to 1,500 million shows evidence that shares were sold by the company? If not, please tell me how NOT. I'm rational. I'm NOT one of those "off with Wilf's head" guys. But reality IS reality, and when the volume goes up like this in the past it HAS been followed by numbers at the transfer agent that show that the company sold a LOT of shares. EACH time. So I think reality shows my point to be correct, and your yelling to be irrational. But i"ll listen to how you say there is no evidence, and how you can say it is ridiculous that others claim the company is diluting when it HAS been. PLease share in a rational way why you say there is no evidence that Wilf has sold shares from teh coampny. PLease explain the increase in shares without selling them. I'm truly listening, not being sarcastic.
Your second post says <<Kind of hard to sell off a billion shares when total volume (that's BUYS and SELLS) for ENTIRE year of 2010 was 597 million shares>> Also not based in reality. Why? Because many shares are sold by the coimpany in private placement deals. they don't show on your volume ticker, but ARE still sold.
Just look at the outstanding shares as of 12/31/09 and 12/31/10. They show that dilutioN DID happen, and that about 1 billion shares WERE issued (sold) by the company. Whether all of them traded on the open exchange or not is not relevent to the requirement of the company selling them off. SO someone saying the comapny sold almost 1 billion shaes is right. Even if they didn't hit your volume tracker.
Neb, I don't mind your thoughtsOR your take on facts. But when you get uppity and attack other posters for their opinion (Did you see the part where i even emphisazed that today was an opinion of mine that it was possibly Wilf and the company selling? the evidence won't be in for weeks, when the T/A updates numbers. then we'll know for sure.) that is not what this board is here for. I;m not going to attack you as ridiculous. I DO say that your facts are not right. I'll correct them and tell you that the company DID sell almost 1 billionshaers in 2010, and it can be researched and put to bed easily by looking at the financials or the T/A records. But i do it with respect, and without flaming you.
Just look at the facts of when people have said that shares were sold off, and what happened to the outstanding shares those same months. And for the year. then you'll see how what others are saying IS true, and you can deal with those facts instead of an outrage based on emotion and not on fact.
Seem fair to you? I hope. Keep posting. I enjoy reading both sides. And i'm long the stock. I still don't like when we are diluted away from any potential of a future. Or when we are flat out lied to by Wilf. I'm still rooting the company on, but when I post that dilution is bad, or that I fear WIlf might be selling some today, don't get on your high horse and start screaming what comes across almost as "no, no, no, that can't be true. it can't You are wrong. Wrong I tell you." Yes, that's how it seems you are reacting when somoene posts negative things (that happen in these two cases to be true)
But I digress. Be well, and keep posting. have a good evening.
Good news comes out, and the stock sells off 33% on 9 million shares traded.
Makes me "think" (Opinion) the good news allowed Wilf to sell again. I HOPE not, but it sure makes sense that he was not allowed to sell while a material announcement was pending, and now that it is out he can sell shares again.
When are we going to stop diluting this stock and let it go UP for a change? I'm getting frustrated. Afriad that by time we DO get good releases and revenue, it will be good for the COMPANY, but the shareholders will be so diluted that it won't be able to save us!
The trade was one of a few things. It could have been between market makers, and not a public trade. It happens often as MMs adjust their books or settle trades previously done and not sent across the tape. It also can be a block sell filling, if it showed up at the end of the day. Means it could have been partially filled before you put your lower ask in, and it was not finished. they waited until the end of the day to report it on the tape, since they were waiting to see if more shares would fill. that is normal on partial fills.
Both those reasons could have been what happened.
GB
How do I volunteer to be one of your assistant moderators?
But buying shares at 0.03 like you did before is just now back to break even. And all the shares you bought WAY above this are still down.
SO yes, you are up on "some" shares. BUt, you didn't sell, I'm sure, and it could reverse again, so I think you are counting your chickens before they are hatched. (And ignoring all the rotten eggs beside it in your DPBE portfolio)
I too am happy it is up today. And I disclosed two days ago that i bought another Mil at 0.0013. BUt, I'm not jumping yet, as my shares bought before that latest purchase are too far under water.
Now if your AVERAGE was t 0.0013, THEN i could see you jumping up and down. Just not with all the shares you have underwater - from posts you've made before showing when you bought ... a lot higher.
brez,
I hate to step into this fray, just because it is so muddy in here. But, there are a few things in the your post that I can respond to for clarity.
If the Outstanding shares (OS) goes up by 175 million shares, then it DOES mean that "Wilf" is selling shares. Yet he says he is buying. How can both be true? LIke this.
When rooster says Wilf is selling shares, he is using a generalization that is accurate but not 100% true. He means the company is selling shares. On the other side of the coin, Wilf may be buying shares PERSONALLY on the buy side. So, Wilf can be right in saying that he is buying 2 million shares. On the open market. For himself. As a person. But, he is then selling 100 million shares at the same time, as the company CEO, for the company. that's how the OS jumps. that's the ONLY way the OS can jump. If the compnay issues more shares.
As a matter of fact - if Wilf was selling "wilf's" shars, the OS would remain the same. It would just be a transfer of shares from one owner to another owner. (And I don't think Wilf fills out the SEC required "form 4" when he buys or sells either. Another SEC rule he might be ignoring, which could hirt us in the future)
Anyway - you both are right. But rooster is talking about Wilf the CEO, and you are talking about Wilf the person. Unfortunately, Wilf the person buys 1/100th of what Wilf the CEO sells in the same time period. And so we hit new lows.
Does that all make sense? I'm trying to not put hardly any opinions in this post. Just an explanation of how Wilf can be buying and selling at the same time, to reconcile your posts with rooster's, and get some facts out there. So the answer is that the company IS adding to the outstanding shares, and "selling" them (Most are put out as collaterial, if what Wilf says is true ... and I don't know that I turst that) while WIlf is buying a small amount for himself at the same time.
What gets rooster going is that Wilf says he has money coming in to run the company, then as CEO sells $875,000 in shares "yet again", all the while saying that it takes about $100,000 to run the company for a month. Wilf's numbers don't add up. And we started 2010 with 500 million shares. Now we are nearing 2 billion shares. That means that no matter WHAT you owned on 1/1/10, you now own about 30% of that amount now. AND at a lower price, so it's even worse. But when the valuables come up (And I am now a believer that they WILL come up) we the old shareholders will share about 30% of what we would have shared in them just 12 months ago. Another area where both sides are right. Deepblue gives pom poms to the treasure, saing it will come up. rooster and can say Wilf is destroying the shareholders. IN reality, when the treasure gets divided, the old shareholders will get such a small portion of it that it won't mean what it would have meant a mere 12 months ago. Meaning the dollar party may be a dime party - IF the treasure is big. Becasue of the dilutionm. the treasure may be the same, but with more shares to split it into, the effect and benefit for us shareholders is much less than it would have been. Again two sides of the story, both correct, and both opposite. One person is talking about the company, and one is talking about the stock price. I believe the company will do well, but the sahreholders ... may not do as well (Okay, that too is an opinion sentence) However, to be fair in disclosure, yesterday I bought 1 million shares of the stock, adding to my position for the first time since October. I feel that the shareholders WILL get screwed, thanks to the CEO selling so many shares (As opposed to the "person" of Wilf buying shares), but buying at 0.0013 yesterday means if it goes to a PENNY I am up 600% or more. An i STILL say it is a RISK, even to hope for that. Because (another sentence of opinion) I feel that Wilf has diluted us WAY too much, and I have given him some ideas for NOT doing it so much, but he has different thoughts. And it is HIS show, so he does not have to agree with how "I" would do it. Anyway, that's enough. SOme thoughts and facts on how you can be right, but rooster is also right ... and he can say for a fact that Wilf the CEO is selling, even when you hear Wilf the person say he is buying.
Make sense?
later ... Be safe Billy and crew. Merry Christmas to all on the board, and within the company.
You should have one share. They normally round up.
Not that 1 share is worth anything today. (Except maybe more than it will be worth in a week! lol)
Did this stock just go from $.98 to $.15 in one day?
It was $1.50 after the reverse ... just a few weeks ago. And of course, bulls said "it won't change your value at ALL. Just less shares at a higher price." I think it was Captain Ed who said it WOULD cost shareholders money, as it then had more room to FALL.
And from $1.50 to $0.15 in a week or two? OUCH!
That's 90% down just SINCE the reverse. And it was down about 90% or more BEFORE the reverse TOO.
I feel for the longs. Sorry to see your losses. (I never gloat when people lose good money) ANd I personally doubt you will recover, as the company doesn't seem to me to want to be out searching for treasure. Hopefully you can take a tax loss before the end of the year.
To those that listened - sorry for monopolizing the radio show today. I really think these issues need talked about, and I didn't get a clear answer like I wished (And maybe one doesn't exist) from WIlf, so I kept pushing it.
Wilf- I'd still like to see a convertible debenture issued by the company. You agreed earlier in the conversation that it would be under Reg D, but not under 504 - 506, since it would be a debenture, and that is true. That would allow it to happen even before becoming reporting. You could do it with a 7 - 9% interest rate, which will gain lots of investors' interest, and I bet you could put it at 3 cents a share on the conversion, even though that is a huge premium. the investors know that this company will either succeed or it will not. There is no middle ground. If it fails, the debtholders have priority over the stock, so if something happened they would get the assets. that gives them assurances that the common can't, and would enahnce any convertible debenture position. With no current liens, the ratios would give them a lot of confidence. Others, like me, would buy for reason 2): If the company succeeds, although I don't do as well as if i bought shares at these low levels, I get the 7% - 9% in the meantime. Add to that the superior position as a hedge even to investors wishing for success, and Wilf I still think it could work. WIthout you having to put a lien on your truck.
Just my input on an alternative to the heavy dilution at these lower price levels. Let's at least GET something for the shares you are putting out there.
Be safe Billy, and I hope you find some more wrecks this week while surveying.
Starting this week, the show starts at 4PM for me, instead of 3PM. So I'll be able to listen AND call in. Thanks to daylight savings time ending, which changed the time of the show at my location by an hour.
Ahem ...
<<Joe has a sell order for 40,000 shares at .05
Sue has a buy, limit, order for 38,800 share .05
Then there is 200 shares left over at .05 on Joe's sell order
>>
Wouldn't there be 1,200 shares left over?
(sorry)
You're a brave man. YOu write <<I heard that one of "Webber's Weebles" on the crew was a "convict"...I heard it was the one who claims to have found the pistols...
:Inexperienced and useless: Good description..between their lack of diving experience and self-control, Webber's Weebles are riddled with defective DNA that has left them prewired for multiple social disorders that cause them to be loud protestors with a penchance for violence...>>
So ... according to you he's a convict, he's defective, he's prone to violence ... and you insulted him on a site that connects to his work and the public.
I would think you would NOT publicly insult a man who is prone to violence, proven he would commit a crime, and would definitely find out about your post. lol. Not afraid someone might show up at your door some night and prove you RIGHT?
I'll end it as I started it. If you believe what you wrote - you're a brave man.
E can mean numerous things. Sometimes it means they missed a scheduled report (On a reporting comapny. I don't know if this one is or not). SOmetimes it means they are in the process of a reorganziation. that might be the reason here. they are doing a reverse split. SO if the split became effective today, then it would have an E. But the price should reflect the higher value now, with the reverse in effect.
I haven't looked into why "this" stock has an E, but if you look at hte top of the page, it shows that the symbol is MEXPE. So they do have it. I don't own any stock right now, so haven't taken the time to check why. WEhen is the reverse supposed to go into effect? Do you know?
I"m in DPBE right now, instead of this one. they have three boats now in the DR< instead of this one. They are out working, instead of sitting at the dock more of the time. they are over a great ship too, and I thnk they are a better play. Just opinion, but that's mine. I still watch this one, and if something good happens i might jump on short term, but Burt seems to be living off of his old glory days instead of working hard to continue new glory days. Again, IMHO. hearing that the boat doesn't leave the dock often is not comforting. So that's why I am in DPBE instead.
Try MEXPE instead of MEXP.
Never a good sign when they go "e".
On the positive side, soon daylight savings will end, and then the show will be on at 4PM my time instead of 3PM my time. That might help me get on it before it ends some Monday soon.
Randy,
ANy chance of even ONE week having the show a little LATER, so that people out west can listen to it too? Or call in. IT is on at 3PM, in the middle of the work day.
CB
Wonderful post. I appreciated reading all that you wrote. Although one thing you need to consider, as it affects you as much (Or more) than the rest of us. YOu wrote << That wasnt very fair and i dont believe to this day that should be allowed we were given shares for something and before we could ever sell them they were now one fifth of what they were supposed to have covered for what we gave up>>
Here's the rub you are NOT considering. AFTER the reverse, we had 100MM shares outstanding again. Now it is about 1,400MM. So, after your shares went down to 1/5 of what you thought, SINCE that time, thanks to the selling of new shares, mostly in 2010, it means ALL the treasure you find will now only be worth 1/14 of that total for what used to be YOUR portion determined by those shares. Because of dilution.
So while you are doing a GREAT job finding things, your take on the things you find has been dropped to 1/14 of what it would have been AT (after) the time of the reverse.
See how the selling of more and more and more and more and more shares by WIlf affects us ALL? THAT is what i want to put an end to. If you had 5MM shares before the split (As an example) yes you would only have 1MM shares after, BUT that would give you 1MM of the 100MM total of the company, or 1% ownership of the company. That has now turned into the same 1MM shares, at a lower price, but versus a total outstanding of about 1,400MM (I don't have the exact of whee we are as of today). Now instead of owning 1% of the company (WHich doesn't mean a direct ratio, but bascially 1% of the value of what you find) it is now 0.07% of the company. Not 0.7% of the company, but add an extra zero in there. So if you find $200MM in treasure, what was 1% in ownership AFTER the split was $2MM of the find. Now, that same find, if divided by all the shares, comes to $142,840 in value for those shares you own. From $2MM being the pro rata portion of 1MM shares AFTER the split, to now only $142,840.
See why some of us don't like what is happening?? And see how it is adffecting YOUR shares?
We LOVE what you are doing down there, and the hard work you are performing, but WIlf brags how we own the boat for free and have no debt, but he is selling shares INSTEAD, and so we are debt free but the 1MM shares above would own $142K in value of treasure of $200MM instead of $2,000,000 in value becuase of DILUTION.
I just hope it doesn't make you discouraged over finding things. And it sounds like it won't, becasue you are happy with the work, even if it doesn't bring you the huge financial return. For that we are BLESSED. BUt you are right - it is not fair. (By the way, that is why I was one of the biggest SUPPORTERS on this board when it was announced that 1/3 of the gold buying profits would go directly into shares for the employees. You can see my old posts saying that was great.)
Tell WIlf to stop selling shares, and if he has to then to start selling some artifacts from the Scipion. Or some of the coins from this ship. It wouldn't take much to sell to finance our monthly needs! I'd rather sell some off to finance the operations than continue to dilute us down to nothingness!
High tension.
Mistake in your post.
<<Since there is 716 Million shares in the float we are only talking about 71.6 Million market cap at 10 cents per share. I don't see why that's not possible>>
No, the market cap goes off of outstanding shares, not float. If there are restricted shares that exist but can't be sold without a registration (144 or otherwise) then they are part of the value of the company, even though not freely traading. So the market cap would be 160 Million or so, depending on the number outstanding at that time. Hopefully not 200 Million by then! Wilf needs to stop selling shares while we are so cheap!!
Here's the difference. BBY may do $50B in revenue, but their net is about 5% on that. Our net would be about 80% of our portion of finds - IF WIlf doesn't screw it up. (Yeah, I still have doubts. I've disclosed them before) And, BBY may move only 30% now, but when it was younger it moved much more than that.
And I"m not looking for it to go to that level anyway (thanks to the huge amount outstanding, as you said).
But
if they find 10MM in finds (their share) ... Not 100B like you said but only 10MM ... then the numbers still look pretty good to me. That's only 2,000 of those $5,000 coins that they are bringing up NOW, in an entire YEAR, and they are finding them at a rate of over 100 a day some days. 2,000 over 300 days working is finding only 6 a day. Can they bring up more than 12 a day (so their share is 6)? I think so. So, taking ONLY the coins, and no other finds, and nothing from the museum, and nothing from anything else, they can make $10MM in revenues in 2011. Then they net about $8MM. (Even Wilf should be able to keep it to about 2MM in expenses for next year) That means that given a PE of 25, the value of the stock would be at $200MM. Hey, we're talking realistic market cap value here. After all, BBY is at 16.82B in market cap, which is 13 times earnings. For a mature stock in a slow growth area, that is not bad, and I could see MUCH more than 25 as a PE on this one if it hit the streets. PLus I can see a LOT more than 10MM in finds in a year. I'm being CONSERVATIVE (but also trusting their word that they are finding these things. Which I DO at this point)
So, let's say we can get to $200MM in market cap. Take that by 1.5B shares outstanding (Probably get up towards 2B before we sell some items, but then Wilf will buy back "some" shares and drop us back to maybe 1.5B outstanding. WAYYYY too high, but let's use that as the number. That means the stock price is at $0.133 per share.
It is currently $0.006. That is a gain of 12.7 cents on 0.6 cents invested. About 2,100% on your money. See why it makes ense, even with the high float?
Am I Looking for that $1 per share party? No, but it IS possible if the market takes it too crazy! And I think we can find a LOT more than $10MM in finds for our portion. Even 50 coins a day with NOTHING else (at $5K a coin) is $250K, or $125K for our side. Take that times 7 days a week times 40 weeks and that is $35MM in revenues. More than triple the amount i used above, and realistic in finds. If we find "the cheese" then look out. We are going MUCH higher. NOt to 25 times PE, but maybe 100 times earnings on the hype and excitement in the market short term. BUt if not, and we find $35MM in finds for our side, then we can be about 50 cents per share on the market. If it is only $10MM in finds, we can be about 13 cents. All a LOT higher than now, and all TAKING into consideration the TERRIBLE thing that Wilf has done to us loyal shareholders by diluting us SOOO much in 2010. See my previous post on that? ALL the owners of ALL the stock outstanding as of 1/1/2010 now own only about 35% of the company. We've been diluted down to a THIRD of the comapny, and 2/3 of ALL the control is new people. Bought at these lower prices! BUt that's a different rant.
I still see that if we find some good things, and it seems like we ARE ALREADY on a DAILY basis, then we can hit a dime. Or 25 cents. Or even maybe 50 cents. And $10,000 invested at $0.006 now buys 1,666,666 shares. At just 25 cents it is worth $416,666 - minus $9.99 commission to sell it.
Worth the shot. I see major news breaking when they announce what they have. MAJOR news. Whether they will SURVIVE long term or not i don't know. But when that news hits - based on the CURRENT finds they are bringing up NOW according to Captain BIlly ... then I see a flurry of activity that will bring this stock to a dime. ANd future news might bring it to $.25. $10,000 to $416,666. If I'm wrong, and it only goes to $.133, like I showed in the beginning? then that is still $221,666 on the $10,000 invested today. I'll suffer through the disappointment.
Pick a number. Say it won't go "that high". Fine. Use math and formulas and PEs and look at the daily updates, and then make a deetermination. See what the numbers show YOU, even witht he outstanding where it is. But pick a number, based on revenue and profit and a high PE based onthe excitement from the news. I think you'll get excited. Granted, this is all based on what we hear, and i don't trust them 100%, but I think they are in the right spot at the right time, and not even Wilf can screw up the short term future of the stock. No matter what number you or I put in there, the share price should rise dramatically. NOt to where it COULD go, becasue Wilf short changed us (IMHO) by diluted the SNOT out of us THIS year, but still MUCH higher than it is now.
Does that make sense to you? See how i come up with those numbers? Again, plug in your own, but I see potential profit in this, on activity already happening. SO I'm buying. One note. I'm buying becasue this is what I think can and will probably happen to the stock. YOU do your own DD, and buy off your own numbers, after working them out mathimatically. Don't buy basd solely on MY thinking. I've been wrong before, and shall be again. So realize that even though I'm talking math and numbers, the reality is that 1) they still have to keep coming upwith the goods 2) WIlf can't screw it up 3) The market may take this to a PE of 100, or might pass on it. You never know. and 4) this is MY OPINION, based on my DD. Take it as opinion, and do your own DD. THIS WHOLE POST IS MY DD AND OPINION, INCLUDING MY THOUGHTS ON FUTURE POTENTIAL PRICE AND DPBE MANAGEMENT. AND IT TOO IS WORTH ABOUT $0.006, FOR WHAT ITS WORTH
Longer term Wilf still scares me, so I'll sell what I own at some point. But I Hope at a LOT higher price than this, on a percentage basis.
Later. Gotta go. I have Bible study tonight, and I Need to go eat. By the way, saying these BULLISH things about the stock makes my skin tingle a little. WHich is why I say to do your own DD. I'm buying based on what I think, after analysing the facts as I see them. BUt I know who runs the company, and that makes me worry as I am investing in it. ANd yes, that too needs to be taken into consideration. So I'm a bull, but I have a twitching trigger finger on this one. Just in case. KNow what i mean?
Now on to the news over the next few months, some great coins, and a HUGE rise based on being in the right spot at the right time with the right captain!
Crew -
That coin discussion over on the website is the best thing I have read on this company in two years. And coming from CB instead of "he who must not be named" (LOL) is a big plus too, at least to ME.
The number of coins coming up on a daily basis is NICE. Even 22 is nice, if they are worth $5K each. That's $100K, split by 50%, or $50K to DPBE. If we find a few that are rarer then it could be a LOT higher value than that. And that wasn't the best day but just a normal one. Yes, I think that when the news breaks of this, and we all know it will, we will see a substantial rise. IN fact, I bought a decent amount of shares today, adding to my position, after reading that thread.
Still have doubts about Wilf, and how he does business (no answer yet on how our authorized shares rose from 500MM on 1/1/10 to 2B now without a legal shareholder vote on the matter. Etc, etc) but when this news comes out I see a significant spike in value. So I'm in deeper again. With my core position AND a trading position.
May add another million shares tomorrow too, if it dips even a little. (it sounds so surreal. A "million" shares here, a dmillion shares there. To misquote what someone once said, "after a while you are talking about some real numbers."
Thanks for posting that link. I see the rise to alwaysright's thoughts to be VERy doable after this news breaks. And if we pull up more coins.