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The Daxi duration expectation is the average patient will get 6 months and some patients will get 9 months…which was repeated several times by the facial plastic surgeon, Dr Campbell, during the discussion! He was 100% on label.
The article published by the AIA Board has no connection with Dr Andrew Campbell and his informative and on label message.
Sorry you are not a supporter of TV information…
Hi Dew,
As additional aesthetic practices add Daxxify to their Toxin menu, the marketing driven aesthetic practices will buy local TV time and bring awareness to Daxi. Thier goal is to drive practice business, but this type of TV time does create market awareness with the patient who is watching TV at that time. A billboard with Daxiffy is much more efficient and does drive business. I spoke to a middle size injectable practice about a month ago, and they had never heard of Daxi...OMG...Revance has made a very small footprint and any additional marketing will only help sales.
https://www.tmj4.com/shows/the-morning-blend/daxxify-frown-line-treatment
Video from one of the Daxxify clinical investigators.
IMHO- Revance has their National Sales Meeting the 3rd week of January and will share sales numbers at the meeting..would think the financial community would also get an overview prior to the meeting.
AIA Board Meeting Analyzes New Neurotoxin Competition
THE Aesthetic Industry Association’s (AIA) December 16, 2022, virtual board meeting attracted dozens of top CEOs, physician KOLs, and other medical aesthetic industry leaders. The meeting program featured an expert panel that focused on trends in the cosmetic neurotoxin sector, with an emphasis on how the longer-lasting DAXXIFY (Revance Therapeutics, Nashville, Tenn.) will impact the marketplace. Also, Medical Insight’s latest research confirmed the continued global growth in the neurotoxin sector.
Michael Moretti
When assessing that growth, AIA Executive Director Michael Moretti noted dramatic changes in patient trends. “From now on, we will see a wider demographic for cosmetic neurotoxins,” he said. “Patient age, gender, and even economics are behind this evolution. For example, recently Evolus reported that the average household income of its neurotoxin patients is under $100,000. We now know that the long-held notion that facial injectable patients are all affluent one-percenters is clearly a myth.”
As presented by Medical Insight’s Senior Market Analyst Daryl Bogard, “The cosmetic neurotoxins segment is growing faster than the overall medical aesthetic market. Though Allergan Aesthetics is the market leader with BOTOX Cosmetic, the marketplace is becoming very competitive. Galderma, with Dysport, is the number two player, and the number three is Xeomin, from Merz Aesthetics. Right now, in the U. S. we have four FDA-approved products including Evolus’ Jeuveau, and we think Daxxify will launch its toxin in Q2-2023. Others like Hugel will follow. It’s going to be an interesting fight to see what kind of market share each company can gain, maintain, and grow. It’s going to be a game of unit growth, price points, and sales tactics.”
The chief impact of these changes is at the practice level, stated one KOL dermatologist, and the challenge of how to price neurotoxins. “In the past I relied on unit pricing, but with DAXXIFY I moved to pricing by anatomical area. I want to differentiate this product from some of the other neurotoxins I carry. So, I price DAXXIFY at a premium because it delivers something different, meaning a longer duration. It is also a more expensive product for the physician to buy and to profit. I priced it at 1.8 times what I charge for BOTOX, Xeomin, or Jeuveau. I keep all the other products at a more or less equal level. For example, even though I pay less for Jeuveau compared with BOTOX, I don’t under charge because I’m charging for my expertise. I’m not transactional.”
Pricing neurotoxin treatments according to the anatomical area is very common, she added. “I lot of my colleagues have done this for years. Others price by unit, as I did before. So far, my patients have responded very well. I also like area pricing because people can’t just call my office and find out what we charge per unit. That’s price shopping, which we discourage.”
A plastic and reconstructive surgeon at the AIA meeting was excited to adopt DAXXIFY in her clinic. “Patients are always interested in trying something new,” she said. “I am cautious before taking on a new product. I want a chance to see what other people think of it, and to make sure there aren’t side effects. If it lives up to the labeling and expectations — meaning maybe a six-month duration or longer — pricing will be an issue, but more important, what the individual patient needs plays a big part. There are some who may want to come back after six or nine months, and others that are higher maintenance and I’ll want to see them more frequently. Those patients may not want to have a longer-lasting toxin. Some may want a shorter acting toxin, so you can give them a bit of product each time they come back. All that being said, I think there will be a huge market sway for DAXXIFY because of the longer-lasting effect.”
According to a dermatologist and clinical investigator, who was involved in early DAXXIFY trials, “I think there’s going to be premium pricing and discount pricing in the toxin market. The plastic surgeons and dermatologists are generally premium practices, and there’s a middle tier of providers, and then discount offices like non-core medspas. We’ll see some differentiation of price point based on product, but also based on the provider. This is going to be an interesting exercise for the free market economy. Also, Revance is launching DAXXIFY in medspas and the premium offices concurrently. Where will the discounting take place?”
One must also not discount the effect of DAXXIFY on other toxin manufacturers, he added. “They can’t perform head-to-head trials with DAXXIFY because it is not yet commercially available. I suspect they will figure out various dosing strategies, in order to see how long DAXXIFY lasts. Among patients, some will get that six-to-nine-month duration, but I’m more concerned about the patient you promised six months’ duration, but they come back at four or five months all grumpy. That expectation of performance match or mismatch is really critical to success.”
Some practitioners will attempt to convert patients from one neurotoxin to DAXXIFY. “It’s easier to drive the demand rather than try to convert,” expressed another dermatologist. “Think of the patient who’s been coming to you for years, getting the same neurotoxin. If you switch on them, they’re going to pay very close attention to the result of the new toxin. Suddenly, they’ll hold you to a higher level. The worst that can happen is that we over-promise and under deliver. We’ve seen that with other injectable products and early adopters. Providers get very excited and buy the claims the manufacturer made about a product. They turn around and tell that patient, this is going to last for six months. And there’s the big promise. So, I’m not really pounding home the duration with my patients. I respond to their needs based on what they tell me. With that knowledge, I find out whether to use DAXXIFY or one of the other toxins. I’m not setting myself up for failure. All disclaimers aside, though, this is an exciting time. It means there’ll be more noise in the marketplace, more clinical trials, and more positives.”
The VP of marketing at a top injectables manufacturer company welcomes the new cosmetic neurotoxins, and the associated competition. “We have the strength of our entire portfolio behind us,” he said. “A lot of the newcomers have to rely on one or, maximum, two products. We can offer more to the patient and the provider. We also have programs that are unique, promoting loyalty to providers and patients. Ours is a combination of products and services, which are clearly differentiated in the marketplace.”
The appearance of DAXXIFY and other products is “proof of a maturing cosmetic neurotoxin market segment,” stated an executive with another manufacturing company. “The world is changing, and we’re going to see some changes in how toxins are priced. Any company in our space has to make sure that it comes to market with value-based offerings that allow for maximal profitability for practices. Providers need to believe in the science behind them and feel well supported, but we must help them engage new patients. There’s plenty of room for all of us, and I think we can have a great economic sustainability. The current brands that are out there continue to grow and develop, as well. Let’s bring more patients into the party.”
As Dennboy notes, there is a significant amount of preparation and planning which goes into these training sessions. Training Materials, flights, hotels, food, etc. Also, Revance wanted to ensure that injectors were given excellent training…if an injector is a “Cowboy” and injects improperly, Revance, has covered their basis and provided excellent training!!
IMHO- I also suspect that Revance needed time to manufacture Daxxify to ensure shippable product was available to meet the Daxi orders! Notice, all 3 training sessions ( Dec, Mar and Jun) are the last month of each quarter at the beginning of the month. January and February give Revance time to build inventory for the 2000+ practices which will be trained in March 2023. Large RHA orders are also being placed!
If you want to read what injectors are saying. Go to “Injectors.lounge” on instagram and pull up the “Daxxify- let’s talk about it” post.
Revance trained about 100 practices last weekend at their Nashville headquarters. This past weekend they trained another 100 at the Nashville headquarters and also conducted training for another 100 at off site locations! The rollout is happening, 150 vial orders are rolling in, patients are saving money and physicians are making more $$ per hour! A win for both patients and physicians!
Instagram
@skinscriptionsbymelissasibbens
16 likes skinscriptionsbymelissagibbens 24 hours after this beauty's 1st Daxxify treatment and I mean WOW!! T Look at these results so far and they will continue to improve over the next few days!
Could not attach the picture..Daxxify works in 1 to 2 days! Very fast!
The 8 RM jobs are new aesthetic regions…I spoke to someone yesterday and they thought the jobs were Therapeutic…
Spoke to someone today…they are aesthetic!!!
Correct Dee..RVNC is not making any claims. Physicians are seeing an effect within a day and full effect within 4 to 5…some patients within 2 days! I encourage you to try Daxi…if you wish to only be wrinkle free for 4 months, just get the 20 unit dose.
Remember, Botox is only 4% of Abbive revenue…do you think this is a priority for Abbive. All good for Daxi.
IMHO—Typically a Botox treatment will take 12 to 14 days for full effect…no effect in the first 1 to 6 days. Daxxify has full effect in 2 to 3 days…Daxi is #1 with the shortest full effect among all toxins do to the peptide. And many Botox patients only get 2 to 3 months…the toxin full effect does not last!
The beauty is now injectors can ask each patient how long they want the full effect to last..total control in the injectors hands..4 months, 5 months, 6 months…this is the “Tesla” of Toxins…and the injectors will inject the patient accordingly…OMG. Does not get any better and all at a price less than competitors!!!
As Foley said on the Piper call, RVNC can not restrict any doctor from ordering the product or advertising the price…so we will see Daxi prices soon.
The toxin market leader is advertising directly to the patient and going around the physicians…this is a big mistake as physicians want to best product for their patients and total control! Just one more reason to switch to Daxi.
IMHO—-Per the Piper Sandler call this week,Foley noted that RHA will benefit from Daxi…many large accounts who want to sell Daxi in March 2023 and have not been selling RHA, are placing big RHA orders in December 2022 to qualify for the March Daxi Training group! We should see record RHA sales and Daxi sales from the several hundred being trained this coming weekend!
IMHO- update on numbers…for a cosmetic practice to purchase Daxxify at the $330 per vial price, the account must purchase 150 vials which is a $50,000 order. 400+ big accounts are being trained the first week of December. 400 times $50,000 is $20 million in Daxi sales in Q4 2022 plus other products..RVNC should hit $40 million + in Q4.
2000+ practices are being trained in March 2023…2000 times $50,000 is $100 million…then 28,000 in June 2023…the sales will grow very quickly! A typical account will inject 150 vials in 30 days. Big accounts will go through 500 to 600 vials in a month. Notice all trainings are at the beginning of the last month of each quarter..
And the 2 top market share leaders are not dropping their cosmetic toxin prices as this would negatively impact their Therapeutics price (therapeutic sales are 2 times the size of cosmetic sales..so if therapeutics sales grow at 10% very little impact on overall toxin profits ). Daxi will quickly take over the cosmetic market and then get their therapeutics approval in the middle of 2023…now the 2 market leaders have a real issue!
RVNC will most like be bought in 2023!
All my humble opinion!
The big Biotech hedge funds bought shares of RVNC last quarter…institutional investors own 87% of the shares!
Looking good!
IMHO---Yes, you are correct Dew...RVNC will begin their direct to consumer advertising around July 2023...this is after the third training in June which will be open to the remaining 28,000 practices in the USA...will be the commercial launch...all being trained remotely.
The Practices which are trained in the First and Second groups will be able to advertise directly to the consumers as soon as they are trained...they are asked not to share any practice pricing......so you will start seeing Daxxify on TV, in social media, on Facebook, on BillBoards, etc.... in December 2022.
As you know, Daxxify will be in a 100 Unit vials just like the other toxins on the market...the dilution will most like be identical to whatever the injector uses currently. The magic is, if the injector placed 4 units in this spot/muscle (current 3 month toxin), now using Daxxify, the injector will put 8 units in the same spot...now the patient will get 6 to 9 months...the training is very simple!!!!
Hope this helps...
IMHO---Update, RVNC will be training 400+ practices at various locations across the USA the first week of December...these practices can inject and advertise immediately after training....400 times $25,000 (75 vials at $330) = $10 million Daxi order in December for Q4 2022. The second phase will happen in March...2,000 + injectors trained all remotely. 2,000 times $25,000 = $50 million for these injectors in Q1 2023....Plus orders from the first 400+....
We will see sales and advertising soon :)
Investing in the Aesthetic Industry | Tim Lugo, Partner at William Blair
The Technology of Beauty
Yesterday on the Stifel Conference call the question came up about continued therapeutic approvals....The answer was "YES" Revance would like to continue and would also like to have a partner join them on this journey.
All good
If you buy 75 100 unit vials: vials can be stored at room temp for up to 3 yrs unopened. 72 hours in fridge after opened.
For the 20 unit applications which provide 67% of the trial patients relief at 16 weeks—cost is $3.30 per unit
For the 40 unit application which provided 6 to 9 months -cost is $6.60 per 2 units. ( this is double the 20 unit application)
Slight correction with pricing of the 100 unit vial. $420 is list and if an account buys 75 vials or more..$330 per vial.
IMHO- Also many big Toxin accounts are planning to inject the 20 unit dose as well as the 40 unit dose..the 20 unit dose outperforms the current market leaders and will save the practice $200 per vial! That is a lot of savings!!!
IMHO—-The Allergan/Abbive practice discount program is very confusing. Practices never know what they are paying for Botox because the Botox discount/rebate is tied to the total dollar purchases (Botox, Juvederm , SkinMedica, Coolsculpting and DiamondGlow) for a quarter ..Practices pay the full list price, $634 and then get a combined rebate check 4 months later....Allergan tries to make practices buy everything from them….if you just buy Botox, there is no discount. Discounts/rebates are very small.
IMHO- Daxxify is a huge issue for Allergan. Allergan will either accept losing market share or buy RVNC.
Botox list price to injectors is $634 per 100 unit vial. Botox is approved for 20 units for glabellar area. Daxxify is $425 for 100 units and is approved for 40 units in the glabellar area.
Comparable $634 versus $850…list price. RVNC is offering an 18% discount if a practice buys 25 vials which put the price at $700 for 2 100 unit vials.
Hoping to see 3000 orders ( 3000 loyal RHA customers out of 30,000 total aesthetic customers in USA) for 25 vials = $26 million..would be a nice start :)
The pricing for Daxxify has been announced! $425 for a 100 unit vial…if a practice orders 25 or more vials the price is $350
IMHO—loyal RHA practices/injectors (several hundred)will be advertising and injecting Daxxify starting the 2nd week of December..there will be good Daxxify sales in Q4 and more each quarter afterwards. They are being trained the first week of December.
Appreciate your input!
No advertising is because RVNC would like to keep a standard price for RHA. I have not seen anything for Daxxify.
Advertising has no correlation to what injectors do in their offices with their products and prices. Injectors typically never advertise their toxin prices as each patient requires their own unique application.
I know big injectors who are already creating dilution and pricing for Daxxify. Each practice will have their own template.
All good.
This is a very interesting point! I would love to see the documentation from RVNC which supports what you are stating!
All the other toxin manufacturers published charts with various dilutions which impact the number of active units in the saline.
Forehead lines, crows feet, neck bans, 11 lines, malar muscle, etc all have different dilutions with different unit strength..this is standard practice with cosmetic applications ( NOT therapeutic)
And you are a man of documentation!
Would love to see!
This discussion of fraud is 100% not applicable and this discussion has gone completely wrong. No one is suggesting any fraud or substation! That is illegal! Not sure where you are going with that.
I would encourage you to call 20 practices and have a discussion on dilution. Sorry, but you need better info
None of the manufacturers control what doctors do…
There is confusion around the dilution discussion! Many injectors diluted with 1cc per vial. The manufacturer recommended dilution is 2.5cc….for Daxxify the injector would dilute with 1cc for the approved 40 unit 6 to 9 months. To achieve the 20 unit application the vial would be diluted with 2cc. Thence the patient would be injected with the same amount of liquid for both injections, one would have 40 units and one would have 20 units…the injection is still below the manufacturer dilution…this is really not hyper dilution which is adding 4 or 6cc to a vial.
Hope this is helpful.
Appreciate your opinion!
Hyper dilution is a common practice now. Every physician I know uses a dilution with is not on label. The aesthetic courses (not company courses..the manufacturers must stay on label) AAI and many other trainers all teach off label dilution. I encourage you to contact 20 practices and ask them what is their dilution…even within a practice you will see different dilutions for different areas of the face and body by different injectors …cosmetic only!
Do your research ??
IMHO----As part of the Belmont Study with Daxxify, Investigators used 20 units of Daxxify for the glabellar. The conclusion was 20 units of Daxxify provided 3 to 4 month duration versus the 40 units which provide 6 to 9 month duration. Injectors will figure this out and will hyper dilute Daxxify to achieve 3 to 4 month duration (20 units) at a lower price point to the patient and cost to them versus purchasing the currently available 3 month duration toxins. Hence, injectors can utilize Daxxify as a 3 to 4 month duration (20 units at a price for 20 units) or a 6 to 9 month duration (40 units at a price for 40 units). Injectors will not need to carry other toxins as Daxxify will meet all patients needs and injectors will make more money with Daxxify versus using other 3 month toxins...this a for cosmetic applications.
Positive BELMONT Phase 2 Trial Results Published in Dermatologic Surgery
June 15, 2017
Response Rate: The proportion of subjects with glabellar line severity rated by investigators as none or mild with 40U of daxibotulinumtoxinA was more than double - and significantly greater than that with 20U of onabotulinumtoxinA at weeks 16 and 24 (67% vs 32% at Week 16 {p=0.002} and 31% vs. 12% at Week 24 {p=0.041}, respectively), according to the Investigator Global Assessment- Facial Wrinkle Severity (IGA-FWS) score at maximum frown. Similarly, the proportion of subjects rated by investigators as improved per the Global Aesthetic Improvement Scale (GAIS) at 16 and 24 weeks was greater for 40U of daxibotulinumtoxinA than 20U of onabotulinumtoxinA (97% vs 81% at Week 16 {p < 0.05} and 44% vs. 19% at Week 24 {p < 0.05}, respectively).
P URCHASE R IGHTS ; P URCHASE P RICE .
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(d) The purchase price of shares of Common Stock acquired pursuant to Purchase Rights will be not less than the lesser of:
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Thank you Dew...
My expectation for their public communication is to rich....I was in corporate for 30 plus years and our Executive Team seemed to always be communicating with the public investment community. They were very transparent. Each company is different.
All good!
Question for Dew:
- It seems the RVNC management team lacks the ability or does not want to communicate with the public investment community as they are very silent.
1. Is this normal?
2. Why would Goldman Sachs be happy with the fact that they just gave RVNC $230 million and it is now worth $170 million on their books....do they not care...does GS know more then we know?
3. Do the big investment funds who own millions of shares of RVNC have any influence on the Executive Mgmt. communication style?
4. RVNC employees get to buy RVNC stock at 20% less then the stock price close on any day during the quarter...does the management team want the stock to drop so they can buy it for less?
Thank you :)
IMHO--- a select group of investigators/Injectors are right now injecting Daxxify into their patients and their input will be considered for the training program for the 3000 loyal RHA accounts who will get Daxxify first....the wave has started!!!!!
The competition with Toxin and Dermal Filler is stronger today than anytime in the past! Allergen aesthetic Botox would have been negative growth in their earnings as well as Dermal filler if it was not for the Botox price increases over the last 12 months…we all know this. And the USA Toxin market grew 10 to 12%…market growth plus price increases and up only a few %. Q3 was a difficult quarter, but the majority of aesthetic practices are up 15% to 20% over Q3 2021…competitors are taking more and more market share which will accelerate with Daxxify and Hugel.
The walls are closing in on Allergan. Hugel Aesthetic will be offering a Botox similar early 2023…the 3 month toxin market is getting more competitive.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20221025005825/en/Hugel-Aesthetics-Receives-FDA-Acceptance-of-BLA-Resubmission-for-LetibotulinumtoxinA-for-Injection-for-Glabellar-Lines
There was an article published on SimplyWall that insiders are buying now.
https://simplywall.st/stocks/us/pharmaceuticals-biotech/nasdaq-rvnc/revance-therapeutics
IMHO----Hopefully RVNC management will share some sales forecast numbers on the 11/7 EPS call. IMHO---RVNC is in 3000+ of the possible 20,000+ aesthetic accounts in the USA (was RVNC's Strategy which they shared to everyone) with RHA and from these 3000+ accounts RVNC has 8%+ market share in the USA Dermal filler industry.
IMHO---if just these 3,000+ accounts order 20 vials of Daxxify at a price of $800 per vial that is $48 million in sales. The stocking orders in the first few months will be amazing... larger aesthetic practices use 10 vials of toxin a day!...
IMHO---The insiders who are buying stock know that the Daxxify sales revenue will be amazing!
Hi Dennboy66, I will go with your guidance in the Therapeutic Market as Legal Concerns are a top priority for many physicians and Hospital/Universities.
In the cosmetic private market, off label applications are quite common as a provider may add a little toxin here and there per the desired outcome of the aesthetic patient.
I do remember reading, that RVNC has already been working on their reimbursement rates for Therapeutic applications.
Thank you...
If you pull up the Revance Therapeutic FaceBook posts....Dr Joseph Jankovic, Professor of Neurology, Baylor University, Chair of Movement Disorder.
There should also soon be an ancouncement of the "Restart" of the Phase 3 Upper Limb Spasticity Clinical Trial as it was stopped to preserve cash....more good news!! Again, Daxxify will begin to take therapeutic patients as doctors use the Daxxify off label until approved.
Revance Announces Positive Topline Phase 2 Data ...https://investors.revance.com › news-release-details › re...
Feb 22, 2021 — Upper limb spasticity is a neurological condition that affects the ability to move the arms and can affect hands, fingers, wrist, forearm, elbow ...