Theo likes having the depth, especially at the pitching rotation! I think it really helped them out this year, especially when you have a few guys to back you up and can start. Tavarez filled in nicely for that role. Remember, we had Schilling, Wakefield, and Beckett all go on the DL list for a bit of time this year. Buchholz will definitely get his opportunities to pitch. It sure wouldn't hurt him to start and build some stamina pitching in the majors and so he doesn't get fatigued later in the year by being in the starting rotation.

The Globe is reporting that Schilling is close to signing another contract with the Red Sox!

Schilling closer to a deal with Sox
By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff

ORLANDO - A deal that would keep Curt Schilling in a Red Sox uniform could be completed as early as Tuesday.

Theo Epstein said early Monday night that deals for both Curt Schilling and Mike Lowell were moving forward, but would not specify how close they were.

According to multiple sources with knowledge of the deal, Schilling is expected to work out the final details of a deal sometime Tuesday and stay with the Red Sox for at least another year. The deal could contain some incentives, but it's definitely one that's team-friendly and one was which described by one source "he could have gotten a lot more in the open market, but it looks like he really wanted to stay in Boston."

Schilling also wrote moments ago in his blog that talks with the Sox are moving along:

Theo and I have spoken multiple times daily over the past week and given the current situation I am feeling very confident that we will be able to finalize a 1 year contract to allow us a chance to finish our career as members of the Red Sox organization.

There are some things to iron out and details that must be finalized for both sides but barring something unforseen or outrageously odd happening I feel very comfortable that I will finish my career here.

Great article on DiMaggio holding out from the Yankees, trying to get more money. I recommend reading the whole article as Arod is trying to do the same thing. But does Arod really want to be a Yankee or not?

Joe DiMaggio confronted same issues players face today

Monday, November 5th 2007, 3:15 PM

Imagine if Scott Boras had been Joe DiMaggio's agent: The Yankee Clipper surely wouldn't have had to settle for a mere $25,000 rather than the $40,000 he knew he was worth to the Yankees. It was a different time and a different baseball economy - free agency was just a dream - but DiMaggio was not that different from today's ballplayers. He knew his value and was willing to hold out for it. "I kept holding out because I thought I was right," he said in 1938. "But as the season approached I began to weaken. Not because I had changed my mind about what I was entitled to, but because the game gets into your blood."

He just needed a tough agent.

In the story below, reprinted from Liberty Library, which comprises 1387 issues of Liberty Magazine (copyright Liberty Library Corp., all rights reserved), published from 1924-1950, DiMaggio explains why he held out, and why he ultimately gave in.

I would like to talk about ballplayers' salaries. After the long discussion which led up to my signing with the New York Yankees as late as April 25, I suppose you expect me to have something to say on that subject. Of course everybody is interested in money, and fans want to know what the average big leaguer thinks on that subject.

Club owners, as a class, like to put the muffler on publicity about contracts before they are signed, and some of them are against publicity even after that. There are some to whom the word "holdout" is like a red flag to a bull. But there is a lot of talk all over the country about salaries in general, and I don't see why I shouldn't join in.

First let me get very personal about a player by the name of Joe DiMaggio. I have signed my contract and I can tell you there wasn't a happier man in the U. S. A. the day I went back to work. I count myself a very lucky man to be with a great club like the Yankees, working for an owner like Colonel Jacob Ruppert.

What I say about the Colonel is not a lot of soft soap. He offered me $25,000. 1 believed I was worth as much as $40.000. At no time was there anything personal in our disagreement If you offer $8,000 for a house and the seller insists it is worth $10,000, does that mean you are deadly enemies?

I kept holding out because I thought. I was right. But as the season approached I began to weaken.

Not because I had changed my mind about I was entitled to but because the game gets into your blood.

When the Yankees dropped two out of three in Boston, I decided that my place was with the club and that money no longer was the first consideration. So I called up the Colonel, and in five minutes everything was straightened out.

I accepted the contract for $25,000, but did so without giving up my idea that from the books-not only the American League records but the attendance figures of the New York club- was worth $40,000 to the Yankees.

While still holding to this thought, I assure you it has nothing whatever to do with my daily job. I work as hard and as earnestly as if Ruppert had signed me for $100,000.

That's one of the funny things about baseball and baseball players. If you are selling gas pipe and your employer fights you on salary, you may have some sort of grudge in your mind, and it possibly will affect your work..

But in baseball, the man who carries a salary grievance into the field with him is as rare as an Italian who isn't nuts about his spaghetti and vino.

Now, then, how much money should a big-league club pay an outstanding player? That question is about as easy to answer as it is to settle the argument about blondes and brunettes.

There are sixteen clubs in the two big leagues. They are located in cities with different populations, different enthusiasms about baseball, and, above all, different results in competition. Generally speaking, the financial success of a team depends on where it is located in the standing.

It is not possible to draw up a uniform scale of salaries. If there were such a scale, it would not be fair to the best players. They would be held down by the average performers.

Many years ago the National League tried out a salary system whereby no man could be paid more than $2,500 a season. Yes, believe it or not, they used to pay that kind of dough in baseball. The scheme not only collapsed but brought on a big strike which resulted in the organization of the Players' League, better known in baseball history as the Brotherhood. That association ran one season-1890- and then blew higher than a kite.

But out of the strike and the Brotherhood came a better understanding between the club owners and the players, and this has improved year after year, until now we have an ideal situation.

I would say that, in general, the ballplayer gets all the traffic will bear. In most cities he gets more than the club's books show him to be entitled to. That's because club owners are the world's champion optimists. They may finish in the cellar one season but figure on the first division the following year.

However, there are some cases in which the great player cannot get what he should be paid. He is held down by the league average and, what's more to the point, by the feeling that a star should climb slowly and be satisfied to take gradual increases.

I can't see why baseball should be different from the movies or selling locomotives or acting on the stage.

Suppose Hollywood gets a great attraction? He signs for $500 a week, makes one picture, turns out a sensation, and immediately expects more dough.

The studio doesn't say, "Look here, Jones, you haven't been with us very long. We will give you six hundred a week next year, and seven hundred a week the third year." No, it tears up his old contract and pays him what the box office says he is worth.

However, I know what the baseball club owners are up against. In 1937 the Yankees drew 1,850,000 paid admissions in New York. The Browns drew about 200,000 in St. Louis. I am not nutty enough to believe that, playing with the Browns, I could get as much as I would being with the Yankees.

In St. Louis an outfielder getting $20,000 from either club has to be the eighth wonder of the world.

But in New York, Babe Ruth climbed as high as $80,000 a year, which is the record salary for a ballplayer.

I'd like to stop here and tell a little story I got from Dan Daniel, the baseball writer, about Ruth's $80,000 contract in 1931. The Babe was holding out for eighty-five grand, but was down in St. Petersburg, Florida, where the Yanks were training. He was playing golf.

The night before the Yanks played their first exhibition game the Babe announced he would not play unless he got his eighty-five. It was raining hard, and Ruth was blue.

Dan went for the story-that if Ruth did not sign the next morning he would turn in his uniform.

But the next morning the sun came out, and the Babe changed his mind. He could not keep away from a bat. Dan heard about it and rushed to Ruth.

"Hey, you can't do this to me! " the writer hollered. "You told me you wouldn't play unless you signed. Now you make me look like a liar. Nothing doing. You sign or you don't play."

They argued for half an hour. Finally Dan said," How can you turn down eighty grand? Yesterday, in New York, fifteen thousand unemployed, with nothing to eat, rioted in Union Square."

Ruth couldn't believe it. Dan brought him a paper. The Babe said, " My gosh, all those guys out of work, with nothing to eat. Gee whiz, find Jake! I'll sign."

So Ruth signed for eighty, and Dan got a better story, which held up his original yarn.

In 1931 New York was the only city which could pay Ruth that kind of dough. Now Chicago and Detroit could stand the gaff too. Detroit is the wonder of baseball. They tell me that the official figures in the offices of the American League actually prove that the Tigers last year outdrew us by something like 30,000. Imagine that, in a city with so many millions fewer than we have in New York, and with so many thousands fewer transients each day!

Detroit lifted Mickey Cochrane up to $60,000 last year, but he was manager as well as player. His playing career was ended when he was hit in the head.

In some cities in the major leagues a salary boost of $2,000 is regarded as a great break. But in another city a player offered an increase of as much as $10,000 may feel he should get more.

When you hit a lot of home runs, drive in a bunch of tallies, do a good job in the field and, on top of all that, bring in fans who never before went to ball games, you say to yourself, "Joe, you certainly meant something in that box office, even if you didn't mean a thing winning the pennant."

Ruth got that important dough because his home-run trick brought in people who never before had interested themselves in baseball. He changed the game, he changed the type of attendance, made parks bigger, and raised the salary standard of all the sixteen clubs-and the minors too.

There is something in this discussion about baseball salaries which is very important to the player.

In the first place, the average major-league life of a player is less than five years. Where do you go from there?

Then again, day in and day out, we risk our lives and our limbs. Suppose you break a leg. Suppose you crack your skull. Suppose you are beaned by a wild pitch. Where do you go from there?

Naturally, the club owners try to make the best bargains with their players. They must be careful not to upset the general balance of salaries-not to make the players of the less fortunate clubs dissatisfied.

While hollering for more money, we know all this. We all know that in the matter of salary we must contribute toward the player who is in what we call the bread-and-butter class.

These men are in Class 3. They supply most of the playing strength among the twenty-three men who make the pennant fight for each club between May 15 and September 1, and the forty who are allowed on each team's reserve list before May 15 and after September 1.

In arriving at club salary limits we must not forget the player who, without getting any great publicity, does a marvelous job day after day, season after season. Those who are close to the game appreciate his class. But the newspapers rarely play him up and maybe the men in the press box do not realize how good he is.

Very often that type of player fails to realize his own class and value. When he does, he unconsciously affects the entire salary situation of his team.

Now, don't get the idea that this piece has been a squawk. I want to say again, in all sincerity, that I am happy to be playing with the Yankees, happy to be getting the salary I am getting.

I have managed to do pretty well for myself, and the saints be praised. I got $350 a month with San Francisco. I jumped to $8,500 with the Yankees in 1936, $15,000 in 1937, $25,000 in 1938.

With a club pay roll over $300,000, Colonel Ruppert did the best lie could for me within his budget limits.

I am lucky to be a ballplayer. What would I be doing jf I hadn't gone into the game? Fishing for a living, like my clad did for so many years? Driving a truck, working for a fruit company in San Francisco? What- compared with the opportunities I have with the Yankees in the greatest city in the world, with the champion ball club?

I call myself lucky when I go to bed. I call myself lucky when I get tip in the morning and face a day doing the thing I like to do best in the world.

In closing, I want to say that my holdout was no gag. It was not done for publicity. And I did not sign last season or at any other time before April 25. Nor did Colonel Ruppert promise me any bonus for giving in. You see, baseball does things to you, and when spring comes, the sun shines, and you read about scores, you forget dough and grab yourself a bat.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/04/2007-11-04_joe_dimaggio_confronted_same_issues_play.html

A month ago, geeze! lol

Sometimes I don't read the articles people post, but just the bolded portions such as yours.

Varitek doesn't have a no trade clause but I found this tidbit from an article:

Varitek will receive a $4-million signing bonus paid over four years and annual salaries of $9-million. The sides compromised over his desire for a no-trade clause, working out a solution that will cover a large part of the contract but not all of it.

"Jason is clearly a key asset we need (to) retain. He is the rock solid leader of our club," principal owner John Henry said in an e-mail to AP, without confirming an agreement.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/12/24/Sports/Red_Sox__Varitek_reac.shtml

Here is a recent article in the Globe. It looks like Kottaras maybe the one the Red Sox are tentatively planning to take Varitek's place.

Catching on ... and on
At 35, Varitek remains productive at plate - and invaluable behind it

By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff | October 11, 2007

News item: The Detroit Tigers picked up the $13 million option on catcher Ivan Rodriguez, who turns 36 Nov. 30, for the 2008 season. "People just throw around other options like you can get anybody to catch, but there are not a lot of future Hall of Famers available," Tigers manager Jim Leyland said.

No one has yet said much about it, being that they're more focused on getting back to the World Series, but the Red Sox this season may have found the man who will catch for them after Jason Varitek's contract runs out following the 2008 season.

This guy finished fourth among American League catchers in home runs with 17, was third among AL catchers in RBIs with 68, was third among AL catchers in games started (121), and ranked fifth among AL catchers by throwing out 23.2 percent of runners attempting to steal (19 of 82). He's a switch hitter, handles a pitching staff better than anybody around, and engenders enormous respect in his own clubhouse and in the opposition.

Oh, and there isn't anyone in baseball who knows Josh Beckett and Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka and Jonathan Papelbon better than he does.

His name, of course, is Jason Varitek. He is 4 1/2 months younger than Rodriguez, and because he got a late start in the big leagues (27), he has started nearly 1,000 fewer games behind the plate than Pudge (1,005 to 1,998). And this season, as Jorge Posada of the Yankees and Rodriguez have demonstrated, the traditional boundaries regarding the aging process for catchers are being redefined.

Varitek said he hasn't thought about playing beyond next season. "No, I can't," he said. "There's too much work to do this every day to think about that. But I've proved a lot to myself over the years, things like playing day games after night games, to handle that, to be dependable for your staff. That's the toughest turnaround for our position. If it counts for winning games over the long haul, then you'll take the hit statistically, because your ultimate goal is to win."

On Aug. 31, 2006, the Red Sox traded David Wells to San Diego for a young catcher named George Kottaras. At the time, Varitek was on the disabled list, having undergone surgery to repair cartilage in his left knee. Varitek rushed back into the lineup Sept. 3, hit .213 the rest of the month, and finished the season by whiffing 13 times in his last 18 at-bats. His .238 average and 55 RBIs for the season were his worst since he became a regular in 1999, and his 12 home runs were fewer than half the career-high 25 he'd hit in 2003. No surprise, then, that the Sox were thinking ahead when they acquired Kottaras.

But while Kottaras struggled for Triple A Pawtucket this season, Varitek rebounded in a major way. Posada's career year (.338, 20 HRs, 90 RBIs) overshadowed Varitek's performance - Posada's .970 OPS (on-base plus slugging percentage) was the highest ever for a catcher 35 years or older with enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title. But Varitek, who batted .255 with an on-base percentage of .367 and a slugging percentage of .421, finished the season with an OPS of .788. Only two AL catchers, Posada and Cleveland's Victor Martinez (.879), topped that this season, and in history, only Posada, Carlton Fisk (three times), and Elston Howard have ever posted a higher number among the 35-and-over set.

Varitek had his usual second-half fade: He batted .225 after the All-Star break, just .222 in September. Terry Francona, among others, cited the wear and tear that comes with being a catcher as the reason Varitek's numbers fall off late in the season and pitchers regularly blow fastballs by him.

"I don't necessarily agree with that," Varitek said. "Sometimes I just get caught up trying to do too much at the plate. I kind of get a little ticked off, hearing that all the time. I'm not more worn down than I was in June."

Varitek didn't look too tired the last 10 days of the season, when he hit three home runs in six games, including a tying ninth-inning blast in Tropicana Field Sept. 22, the night Sox clinched a postseason spot with a win over the Devil Rays. He didn't do much at the plate in three games against the Angels in the Division Series, going 2 for 11 with a double and an RBI while striking out four times and hitting into a double play. But the Angels had handled him all season (3 for 29, .103), and he still ranks as Boston's postseason leader in games and runs, ranks second in home runs and hits, and is third in RBIs.

Besides, when pitching coach John Farrell was standing in the middle of a champagne-drenched clubhouse, reflecting on Schilling's performance in the Division Series clincher last Sunday, he didn't talk about what Varitek had done at the plate.

"What's so impressive," Farrell said, "is the working relationship Jason has with every starter. Really, that's with every pitcher. In the seventh inning, when he had to be at his best, he was, and Schill stepped up. For us to allow two earned runs in 27 innings was an entire team effort, by the pitching staff and by Tek."

Varitek attributes his periodic struggles at the plate, especially late in the season, to excessive tinkering with his swing, and placing a greater emphasis on what he does behind the plate than when he's standing at it.

"But I've learned a lot about myself, different things about trying to concentrate on myself sometimes," he said.

There are signs, Varitek said, that will tell him when he is starting to slow down.

"I'll know if I'm starting not to be able to get to balls. Gary Tuck [bullpen coach and catching instructor] keeps track of a lot of catching stuff - how many balls you've blocked out of how many, how many balls you keep in play, how many runners advance - and he kind of tabulates it. Those are the things when I can't do those things anymore, that's when I'll know things are starting to decline. Those are the hard things, those are the wear-and-tear things, those are the concentration things and the demanding things."

Any slippage there? "It's not as easy as it was when I was 22," Varitek said, "but I'm also smarter now, and I do a lot of things better now."

And who would have guessed that at 35, you can teach an old catcher new tricks? That's exactly what has happened, Varitek said, with the addition of former Yankees bullpen coach Tuck to the Sox' staff.

"I'm getting help," Varitek said. "Roger Hansen [who tutored Varitek in Seattle] and Tuck, they've been great to have.

"Catching has never been, like, easy. Dougie [Mirabelli] has great, great hands. We've had to work on mine to catch the ball better, to do those things.

"I'm more of just a battler, a grinder. I need help with some technique to help me out. I'm 35 and I've been coached this year. That's pretty nice."

Nice to know the kid's still learning. Might want to keep him around for a while.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/10/11/catching_on__and_on/?page=2

Well, Boras needs some team to get the bid up.

Red Sox would be No.1 on A-Rod's list

Sunday, Nov 4, 2007 8:12 am EST
Alex Rodriguez


Citing sources close to Alex Rodriguez, the Boston Globe reported Sunday that if Rodriguez could handpick the team he plays for, the Boston Red Sox might be No. 1 on his list.

According to The Globe, the source said Rodriguez would love to play for the Sox because he thinks they can win multiple championships.

Also, agent Scott Boras has been pleasantly surprised with the early interest in Rodriguez. "Several teams have expressed an interest and there have been a couple of surprise teams I never expected to hear from," he said. Boras would not reveal any names (one of the surprise teams is thought to be the Marlins).

Has a team captain in baseball ever been traded before?

That'd be like the Yankees trading Derek Jeter.

The Twins have a good farm system and their goal has always been to use young talent. I don't think they're in the business of taking on guys who are past their prime and in a large contract which they could not afford nor could even help them in a few years.

Yankees have saved themselves a ton of money on one position to spend on getting Mo and Posada back.

As if Arod was going to hold the team back from resigning them! lol Not only will the Arod situation be interesting, but how the Yankees fill in some holes.

The Red Sox are never going to trade Varitek. He'll be around after his contract expires too.

Do you realize how big of influence that Varitek has on team, let alone the pitchers? The guy wasn't made Capitan of the team out of the goodness of managements hearts.

Depends on what type of strategy you're doing with options. Options are kind of like a penny stock, but you'll know quite a bit quicker if the speculative investment is going to work out. There are a lot of option strategies you can use that will limit your losses and also limit your gains. I don't trade options and I don't recommend them to 95%+ people.

Twaves does daytrading, swing trades(1-15 days usually), has some value/growth plays, and also does futures trades(S&P500 E-mini). It is definitely worth checking out if you're a proactive investor.

Some of that is because of the lack of a large free agent pool. It seems like a lot of teams are trying to sign their young stars to longer term deals before they become free agents. The Red Sox were caught off guard a couple of years ago on how much free agents were getting because of the lack of quality free agents in the market, especially starting pitching. Just last year Gil Meche got 5-yr, $55MM contract from the Royals and he is a .500 pitcher! Even more telling is the growth of baseball. In 2001, baseball revenues were $3.5 billion compared to over $6 billion this year! The smaller teams are starting to spend more and the competitive baseball continues to get better. Depending on where Arod really wants to play, there is a good chance for him to get $30MM.

As McGowan said for the Giants, many teams will kick the tires and see what Boras and ARod are really looking for. To get one of the best players in MLB, there are probably a lot of teams willing to spend about $20MM/yr, with some of that being deferred. I think it is going to be a huge stretch for $30MM+ though. No matter how good Arod is, I don't think it is reasonable to pay him even double Miguel Tejada's salary of less than $14MM.

Obviously the Yankees would be the logical choice to sign him, especially with the increase in revenues from their new stadium. Baseball has had excellent revenue growth since Arod signed his last contract with Texas. Could a dark horse like the Nationals make a bid for him with their new stadium, which is expected to add about $40MM/yr to their coffers? I could see them making the stretch just as Texas did. Not sure if it would be a stretch actually, they spent only $37MM on payroll this year compared to $67MM in 2006! Arod could be the very thing the team needs to be a big hit in DC and take away some interest from the Orioles.

I agree with this.

You stated the following:
Post 69175
And when George made his announcement about Joe losing his job based on perfromance he knew EXACTLY what the media would do with it.
Seems to me common sense would rule here what the intentions were. Breaking the rule? Probably not.

MLB doesn't have any rules against announcements during the postseason, which is what the conversation seemed to have turned to.

BnB stated this:
Post 69177
Yankees made NO annoucements per MLB rules. Any one who says differently is full of it.
Teams aren't allowed to make major announcements during the World Series, but if New York wanted to do so on an off day, commissioner Bud Selig probably would give his permission.

Again, it was about the rules of MLB.

You stated in 69178
The END result was the point.
You can't defend the end result.
It was all over the media and on the TV DURING the games.

Of course. George and the team wanted that. The message I'm responding to mentions the ploy by George to use the media to pressure the team to win. That is nothing new in the world of NY. What is wrong with it being in the media? This wasn't even close to when the World Series was being played.

Bnb 69180:
If you think otherwise because of the media coverage that the Yankees receive then it's sour grapes.
Go blame the media. But don't blame the Yankees.

You in post 69183:
I thought also as they did George was once again manipulating the media. He isn't dumb.
He knew EXACTLY what they'd do with that info.
Because MLB didn't say anything to George about it means absolutely ZIP to me.
I'm suppose to believe Selig does what is fair and best for baseball? Nope. I base my comments on what I see happe

You're both right, the media was being used. There is nothing that Selig could have done or even should have as announcements in the media only apply during the World Series. What George said wasn't even an announcement in the first place. He could have said it during the World Series if the Yankees were in it about firing Torre and been ok.

Bnb post 69191:
Yankees made the announcement on October 18-19 that Torre declined the offer. Sox fan is whining that Torre turned down an offer from the Yankees to continue managing the Yankees for the highest salary in MLB? And it's the Yankees fault that it's news?

He's right too. The Yankees had to address the situation with Torre right away. You just don't wait till the end of the postseason to take care of those matters. The Reds and Cardinals signed their managers during this period too. The media is quite a bit different in NY and there was a lot of interest on the Torre situation across the nation anyways.

You post 69198:
My part of agreeing was with the George announcement of possibly being fired.

You originally stated it was a ploy by George to pressure the team and that is ok. No rule broken as that is what was being discussed.

You again in 69200:
It was about a manipulative statement Geiorge knew the press would have a field day with. How hard is that to understand?

Yes, this was well before the WS. No foul. You're starting to talk about the original comment when that was fairly minor at this point. Bnb was discussing the getting rid of Torre and the subsequent throng of media action.

You in post 69221:
He and I were both defending the Yankees with Payrod and what happened there. He noted that the Yankees weren't exactly innocent in the media game and I agreed.

Agree, Yankees had no control over that. Of course the Yankees use the media. It is common for in many athletic events that sports personnel use the media to get a message across to their own team and others.

You in post 69275:
So Yankees are innocent according to you.
George saying Joe will lose his job before a playoff game is just good old innocent George.
Since George has been an ASS for so long manipulating the media it's okay with you.

This post isn't about the MLB rules. Media manipulation, surely not the first time nor the last time. To each their own opinion if it is right or wrong. No bid deal.

Bnb goes back to the rules again in post 69283:
Hello. The Yankees per MLB made no major announcements during the WS per MLB rules.
You need to get over it. I could care less what the person I have on ignore says. The only reason I looked was because you made some idiotic statement about the Yankees stealing some thunder during the WS.

It appears to me you're both right! You stated George was using the media, which is correct. Bnb is stating the Yankees didn't break any MLB violations, which is also correct!

Torre not taking the contract and him leaving the team was done 5 days before the World Series started and it actually even started before the ALCS was over. That is ok by MLB rules. Yankees didn't seem to be trying to grab the spotlight during the World Series with that move, which is what you both seemed to be discussing.

It appears you both agree with each other on the classless Arod statement, which did not include anything the Yankees did during the World Series.

So what exactly do you want to discuss: Did the Yankees manipulate the media? Did the Yankees break any MLB rules? Do the Yankees have to be the center of attention?

Kind of funny the person who made the original comment on this discussion, hasn't even been involved in it one bit! It all started with this by SoxFan in post 69148:
You know Boras and A-Rod weren't the only jerks during the playoffs. The Yankees with their every other day what's going on with Joe Torre and then Torre announcing during the playoffs he's out from under managing the evil empire. They need some explaining to do as well as they, as management, should have known better to make managing the Yankees an issue during the playoffs. But then again the Yankees need the spotlight.

The timeline with Torre was basically a two day deal on the 18th and 19th. Once again, other teams did this. This was of course going to be in the media and it had to be dealt with by the club. All teams try to hire a coach ASAP, and the Yankees are no different. They had to act as a club.

Bnb in post 69272 stated this:
This is a baseball board dummy. Do a search and maybe you'll find a board to post football about on.

This was in response to Dew's post with the Patriots and Colts game this weekend. I don't think anyone else had a problem with the post and more than likely, it will be one of the top rated/watched football games of the whole regular season. This is an incredible match up that has a lot of attention from the media and all fans. It is pretty apparent that BnB himself doesn't like the attention diverted away from his precious club, especially with another Boston sports team in the news.

It must be factored in how much he talks bad about the Red Sox and what saints he thinks the Yankees are. Of course he thinks George has done no wrong, especially since he has built a shoddy club of overpaid stars that are expected to do nothing but win 173 games in a season. When that doesn't happen, they get mad and when it is the Red Sox that win it all, they then get very bitter. Bnb is also one that think that the 1-yr contract offered to Torre was respectful and a genuine sign they wanted him back on the team. BnB reasoning is how much the club has spent to build a winning team. But he doesn't mention recently how much was wasted by George and Cashman on players past their prime and couldn't effectively make a meaningful difference to the club. Case in point this year, the $28MM prorated contract given to Clemens. So that must be Torre's fault too in the past 7 years a championship wasn't won. Of course Torre makes all those personal decisions, along with the salary contracts, and how poor the quality on the field was for the amount of money spent on the team. If Torre was paid $1MM or $20MM, that's not Torre's problem, that's a problem made by the management of the Yankees.

You and BnB have been talking about two different issues. You guys should get on the same page first.

I think they're really debating two separate issues.

What are the Yankees guilty of again?

Fans catch treat at Varitek home

By Andrew Ryan, Globe Staff | November 2, 2007

NEWTON - This Halloween, Jason Varitek gave trick-or-treaters something infinitely more valuable than a king-sized Snickers bar. The Red Sox captain sat in a lawn chair at the top on his driveway and handed out autographs, signing baseballs, hats, shirts, pillow cases stuffed with candy, and a green alien glove from a youngster's costume.

Christopher Roberts, 10, dressed up as the catcher - a white number 33 Red Sox jersey, baseball pants, and red colored socks pulled up past his calves - only to find himself standing face-to-face with his hero.

"He signed my shirt, right on the first three," Roberts said.

Two police cruisers came to direct traffic and control the crowd, which swelled to some 50 youngsters and parents on a leafy block in the tony village of Waban, in Newton.

"Varitek looked really tired," said Ch ris O'Connell, 45, who brought his sons Joshua, (dressed as a Japanese ninja), 9, and Zeke, (Darth Vader), 7, to get autographs. "It was great - for him to be sitting out there after 9 o'clock on Halloween says a lot about the guy."

It was another example of a Red Sox player transcending his superstardom to reach out to fans, much like the time two players delivered Mexican food to a crowd waiting for playoff tickets on Lansdowne Street last month.

At the local commuter station a few blocks from Varitek's home, the village's affection for the Sox catcher is articulated on handwritten signs hung on a fence - "Waban Loves V-Tek!" and "Tek is the best" - that he passes on his route to Fenway Park.

"Waban has been good to us and respected our privacy," Varitek said yesterday in an interview at his home. "It was a good opportunity for me to say thanks."

The Variteks had a small Halloween gathering at their home that included the families of two other Red Sox players - third baseman Mike Lowell and Doug Mirabelli, another catcher. After the guests left, Varitek's oldest daughter, Aly, 7, had an idea: Dad should go out and sign autographs while she handed out Butterfinger candy bars.

"I couldn't really tell you how many there were, but it was a lot," Varitek said with a heavy sigh. "But it ended up being a good thing."

For trick-or-treaters, it was better than good. It was better than Christmas.

Dressed in an all-black demon biker costume, Maxx Teitleman, 9, had to think fast to find something for a signature. He handed Varitek the blue pillow case he had taken from his bed to collect candy. "I'm not going to use that pillow case again anytime soon," Teitleman said.

At the O'Connell house, Joshua woke up the morning after Halloween in disbelief. He spotted the baseball signed by the catcher of the 2007 World Series champions, but still ran down stairs with a question. "I asked mom if it was a dream," he said.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/02/fans_catch_treat_at_varitek_home/?p1=MEWell_Pos1

Nash's equilibrium.

Mariners had to.

"Investing" in this company must be like the people who bought gold in January of 1980 at $800+ and held onto it. I wonder how many people who did hold it through 3 decades thought the price was going to back up at anytime. It is still a negative return over that time period.

Raising awareness to the problem is a good thing, but don't think people should automatically single out players from a guy who lacks any sort of credibility.

On Bret Boone:

I remember one day during 2001 spring training, when I was with the Anaheim Angels in a game against the Seattle Mariners, Bret Boone's new team. I hit a double, and when I got out there to second base I got a good look at Boone. I couldn't believe my eyes. He was enormous. "Oh my God," I said to him. "What have you been doing?"

"Shhh," he said. "Don't tell anybody." Whispers like that were a sign that you were part of the club ...
-- p. 264

This conversation almost certainly didn't take place.

The Mariners and Angels played five spring training games in 2001.

On Friday, March 2, the Angels beat the Mariners, 5-2. Jose went 0-for-2 as a DH, and did not reach base.

On Friday, March 9, the Mariners beat the Angels, 8-3. Canseco struck out twice in two at-bats. Boone did not play.

On Sunday, March 11, the Angels beat the Mariners, 5-4. Neither Canseco or Boone played.

On Monday, March 12, a Mariners split-squad beat an Angels split squad, 4-2. Canseco did not play.

On Tuesday, March 27, the Mariners beat the Angels, 15-2. Canseco did not play.

In spring training 2001, Canseco hit only one double in 39 at bats. He did not steal a base.

* * * * *


Picking on a target like Arod is easy because he's a great player and a lot of people don't like him. Arod had a normal physique and was hitting HRs just fine before the steroid scandal hit in force.

We're talking about Canseco who couldn't get his facts straight on games he actually played. Canseco said he hit a double in spring training against the Mariners and saw Boone at second base, non of which ever happened. Did Boone use steroids or something like them? Probably. Is Canseco grasping at whatever straws he can to finger players? Definitely. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to think of how someone Boone's size started to become a HR hitter. In fact, I really don't condone the singling out of players over the use of performance enhancing drugs because you have no idea who did or didn't during that time and to what extent.

Why wouldn't they just hire someone else to run the club? It appears to me that the sons haven't had any trouble so far running things this year.

McGwire? Sosa?

You didn't have to be in the clubhouse to know what was going on with those guys. lol

Consider the source. Cancesco is out there trying to sell a new book.

Do you really expect George to act any differently? It's not like he has never done that before.

Torre said on Letterman he turned the offer down because it was a 1-yr deal. He tried to negotiate with them but they didn't have any interest in doing so. Torre also said a 1-yr deal would be too much of a distraction to him and the team, which you have to agree with. Additionly, Torre said $5MM is a lot of glue! lol The money sure didn't seem to be a big of issue as what has been reported, imo.

I agree.

I couldn't believe the stupid front page headlines in the NY newspapers when we were there. It was fairly minor stuff. Front page of the sports section I understand, but not the front page of the newspaper with pictures taking up most of it and a big headling. New Yorkers must be missing what is going on in the rest of the world. It is truly tabloid journalism there.

Steinbrenner gave his ultimatum to Torre before the game started, not during.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=287065

NEW YORK (AP) -- Win or else! That was George Steinbrenner's message to Joe Torre before the New York Yankees played the Cleveland Indians on Sunday night, and that's what they did.

Maybe Steinbrenner was trying to use it as motivation for the players. I don't see any problem with that, it's not like that sort of ultimatum hasn't been put on a coach before.

What were the Yankees suppose to do, wait till the end of October, a month after the season has ended, to give Torre any sort of contract or not?

Dusty Baker was hired by the Reds on the 13th, a game day. La Russa signed a contract extension on the 22nd, a non game day. Torre rejected the Yankees contract in Tampa Bay on the 18th(1 game) and held a news conference the next day when no games were on. In fact, I don't believe Steinbrenner or the Yankees made any sort of announcement about it at all. The media was following every step of the situation and there is nothing the Yankees could have done to stop it.

I don't care for the Yankees and am a Red Sox fan and I don't think the Yankees did anything wrong. Of course they want to find a coach as quickly as possible, just as every other club does too! It was all Boras doing getting the news out about Arod.

What are people complaining about anyways?

Just as formal as that money was put together.

Legit business or not, private placement or something else similar, a NDA would not be involved. It wasn't even mentioned in 34Simmons posts nor would it be required for what they were trying to accomplish. So Ray did not turn them down because of the NDA as you originally claimed in post 63295 and 63318.

Management said no they already had it covered because the group wanted at least two out of the group to sign a NDA.

you think Brad/Ray turned them down because of anything else then the fact of the NDA you are wrong.

Thanks BL, no company would want the oversight that'd create and I didn't even see a NDA being discussed! You either trust the company with the funds or you don't. Simple as that. If you want some specific stipulations on where the money could be spent with the money, then yes, more than likely the company will tell you to get lost. As Ray said, they have that covered. More importantly, I didn't even read how many shares or what would be offered in return to the investors for the funds.

Just another dead topic in the land of RSMI.

Oh and your claim no association would take shareholders money in a financing deal. I disagree.

Only difference between this one and ALL the rest NVXE/NVEI/RSMI has done with GROUPS of shareholders would be the NDA.
Guess what? Who's fault is it for wanting that?

There is a big difference between a private placement done through shareholders versus financing a company which would require an NDA. Actually, $1MM is chump change and if someone wanted to influence the company or be involved in the operations as a BOD or other means, they'd better be willing to offer something better/more than just $1MM.

As I stated previously, I've never heard of any sort of financing arrangement with a group of shareholders with an NDA. It would be a warning sign in the first place and any company that has to use a private placement to keep afloat is suspect as it is.

Quit calling it a game. I'm trying bring up some important matters with your assertions.

The shareholders on this message board surely aren't going to get together and do it. It was years ago that people tried to get a 'financing' agreement, and all those people have moved on since then! I highly doubt the authenticity of the commitments of the shareholders to provide additional funds to the company anyways, at that time. As stated previously, no corporation could take that offer seriously, let alone actually do it. Sign an NDA with shareholders, yea, that will really work.

And I'll repeat it again, you can't just take over the corporation and the shell through a lawsuit. If you want to do that, buy the company out. If you want to change the business, shake up the BOD, you sure aren't going to change management no matter how much you bitch about it without changing the BOD first. Look at large corporations that have problems, the change comes from the BOD, never from a minor group of shareholders that have no influence.

The best and only option is to put forth a shareholder resolution on the proxy or to elect someone onto the BOD, yet that hasn't happened and you've talked about that for years. If you want to accomplish anything, that is your first option. Try that first, it's much easier, far less expensive, and actually a viable option and well before jumping to a lawsuit. I do not have an idea and I doubt anyone here would have an idea of what sort of shareholder resolution would be possible without consulting with an securities lawyer first. These are very technical matters and fairly expensive to do.

Yes, I've read your posts today but 95% of the time I skip through everything on this board. You just jump to the last and least reasonable option without pushing for other steps that would be required first, such as some sort of shareholder resolution put forth to the BOD. There is just no interest in this company except for the few hanging around here or on the other message board.

And what were they, in what post? I'm surely not going to search through your posts when you've had the same tune for years.

You never did answer me who is willing to put up the money? If there was anyone who is interested, there'd be a growing chorus of people wanting to do so and that is not happening. Instead, interest is going the other way, down. I highly doubt that anyone would be wasting their time on a message board getting something together in the first place, if they were even to do so.

You also never did answer how much you'd like to get back to pursue such action. Taking over the corporate shell isn't even possible right now, let alone worth paying back the millions of dollars to make a shareholder lawsuit worthwhile.

This has been a bulletin board company and is rightly so. People get what they pay for, which is what should be expected.

This is really funny:
7. CTM conference – Brad’s message – Copper the only cost-effective vehicle to handle bandwidth demand. We cannot deploy fiber fast enough to keep up with demand. Executive from one of top three largest telcos in the world (China) and major U.S (household name) internet service provider corroborated all of Brad’s assertions publically at conference.

In meetings with major telcos, they have two major concerns:

1. What will it cost to overhaul the copper network
2. What will it cost to provide content over that network

Other broadband technologies are not even considered as viable cost- effective solutions for widespread deployment. I added that "if the new broadband technology does not utilize the existing copper infrastructure, that technology is not being considered for widespread deployment." Brad enthusiatically agreed. (See my post from last night)

Verizon's Fios has been really popular! It is costing a lot to build up their fiber network, but they're also not having to spend the additional capital expenditure on maintaining a copper network that is aging and becoming less useful to support any sort of broadband applications. Even companies like Comcast that offer cable internet are starting to struggle against the products Verizon offers. Even the growth in wireless has been huge, just look at the applications phones now have, such as the iPhone and the wireless applications are only going to get better from here!

It is a lie that copper is the cost effective solution for broadband and the market is proving that. If copper had the solutions that telecos were looking for, then Ikanos would be seeing a lot more growth than they currently have. Innovation is coming from wireless solutions and that is where the growth is.

Who else wants, let alone has the money to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a civil lawsuit against a corporation that is still operating? What are your goals if you did get involved?

How much have you lost as a shareholder? How much are you willing to spend on a lawsuit? How much do you actually expect to get back from a company with little in assets? How many more years are you wanting to sit around here waiting for that process to play out?

The shareholders attempt to provide the company with financing was just plain stupid, imo. No corporation wants be engaging in their business operations with the shareholders. The shareholders voice is on the BOD and that is where things get done. If you want to have a direct influence on the company decisions, then buy a boat load of shares or get a shareholder resolution put on the proxy statement. You only hear of large hedge funds or wealthy individuals such as Carl Icahn being activist shareholders. Even then, they have problems making companies change and some of them have a lot of influence, a heck of a lot more than this stupid message board.

In addition, there was no legal formation or process for the shareholders to fund the corporation with financing. The company isn't going to want a couple of shareholders to hand them a check and give them a NDA on their business operations. No corporation in America would do that. If anything, taking money to finance the operations of the corporation from shareholders, is just opening up any corporation to more problems. If you like the company and want to get in on their growth, just buy the shares. I've never heard of a group of shareholders do this anyways.

How many years have you been pushing for shareholders to hire lawyers and go after the corporation? Do you know how much that would cost and what Sarbanes-Oxley regulations has the company broken anyways? Do you know what the outcome of most shareholder lawsuits are? The shareholders sure wouldn't get a shell, and if anything, the company would just declare bankruptcy and you'd be out either way. This would be done in civil court, so jail time would not be an option. If there is any sort of civil action, usually the shareholders wait till after the criminal case, not the other way around. It is too difficult and requires a lot of resources to prove actual malfeasance and is nearly impossible in the case of civil action without any criminal action first.

Answer this question first, what did the shareholders out of Enron get?