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The posts (plural) in question have been deleted. (thankfully)
However, I did save the screenshots of them before they were removed (I did have three days after all). If you truly wish to see them I'll gladly provide them to you in PM as I am not wont to spread this filth in public.
Your implication that I am the only person JXM treats this way is ludicrous. There are dozens of examples of his SOP when dealing with persons in opposition to him. Both here and at SI.
BTW, It looks like we can add Luna to the support group as well.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Perhaps it would help if they would be reminded that they should look first to their own. Rival tribes in Africa hunted each other and SOLD the captives to the slavers.
If they don't like that perhaps if the Jews were to seek reparations for their enslavement it might alter their outlook. After all if we are going to go back a few generations what are a few hundred more generations going to hurt.
In fact, if we want to go all the way back...some claim the first modern humans arose in Africa, and since at one time virtually every race has had a portion or all of it enslaved by another race...a case could be made that the African descendants owe EVERYBODY "reparations"!
The Bird of Prey
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<applause> <applause>
Well said!
The Bird of Prey
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It would be tragic if I did have to look it up! <G>
Dammit Jim, I'm a Doctor not a programmer!
The Bird of Prey
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On a thread called Rant and Chat
The IHubbers did exactly that
With nary a curse, or anything worse
And no visible signs of a spat!
No feelings were hurt,
no keyboards were burnt
even SI was never like that!
So I'll continue to stay
On IH boards I will play
and learn something new each day
Imagine that!
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Greg,
Thanks for the pics and the links!
The Bird of Prey
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Greg,
I appreciate your comments and perspective. I am glad it is not a simple thing to launch a nuclear weapon. It shouldn't be. I am also glad that you and I and everyone else here can express our opinions on how "we" think our military should be used without fear of reprisals. I trust that we have our best and brightest working on the solution to this problem and that they will reach the best solution available at the time the decision must be made.
Thanks
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
(Irish, Scottish, French, Native American)-American
That's what I call a volatile combination! Glad your on our side! <G>
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
My apologies,
I was under the impression that the "football" (the device kept with the President) that sends the codes to tell the officers to turn the keys was operated by entering the proper code and pushing a button (or ENTER key). I may be wrong but that was my understanding.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Greg,
I do enjoy it when everyone can be respectful of another's opinion. It's a very "American" thing!
I disagree with you that deploying nuclear weapons would in and of itself place the American way of life at risk. I am sure that many will agree that their primary value is as a deterrent. However, current thinking around the world is that the Americans lack the intestinal fortitude to actually use Nukes. In such circumstances the value of deterrence is lost. I've seen "Wargames" and know that the popular presentation is that the firing of even a single nuke will lead to all of them being fired and the end result is the end of civilization as we know it. I agree with you that under the scenario as described by CM (launch because we are losing conventionally) is open to the "end of the world" scenario. I submit however that may be a better solution that a world dominated by a taliban-like governmental structure.
IMO, a single preemptive strike would cause a great many that think they can "take" us to reconsider their position. It might even lead to real negotiations.
Prior to August 1945 the Japanese were ready to fight to the last man standing. Like aspirin, they took two and changed their mind.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
CM,
As I said to you yesterday, you and I are not very far apart on this issue. The only difference I see is that if using Nukes will result in fewer American Casualties...push the button.
I occasionally contemplate how the rest of middle east might react if tomorrow morning they heard the following from our President.
Good Morning,
As you all know The United States of America has grown tired of this cowardly form of warfare and your leaders refusal to join the civilized world. Your leaders have made it clear that they intend to insure civilian casualties by using their citizens as human shields. Since we have no means to prevent these casualties in conventional means, I have decided to eliminate leaders that would use their citizens in this fashion as expeditiously as possible and with minimum risk to American lives. Therefore I have given the order for a nuclear strike on Bagdad. Impact is in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
I'm not picking on you Sara, yours is just the last post in the line. <G>
Talk about ranging all over the place! Let's see...
I agree with the notion that we should have the support of the people we might be defending in the event of a war (IE South Vietnam) It certainly helps when you know who is on your side and who isn't.
However we did not have the support of the Japanese or the Germans or the Italians during WWII. Those forces that were our allies (while we could not have won without them) often were secondary or diversionary forces while we took the main brunt of the battle. In those rare instances when they did lead the charge, they were stalemated or routed more than they succeeded.
It is very true that the politicians reign in the military. Patton has been cited several times, how many remember the MacArthur/Truman confrontations?
Our military is the best in the world by far for one reason...from the beginning it's leaders have understood it's purpose (to kill people and break things) and have designed and trained it's resources to do just that. Unrestrained Patton would have captured Moscow and MacArthur Peking (Bejing). Our political leaders at the time felt that these actions were neither necessary or appropriate. We may never know the wisdom or folly of their actions.
As with many aspects of our system of Government this is just another example of checks and balances of power. Whether Bush Sr. was right or wrong in restraining our military during the Gulf War, he was not alone. He had the full support of the Congress and the Cabinet and the populace. Though he gets the credit or blame for the decision, we all had a hand in it.
The same cannot be said for the Clinton decisions concerning Bin Laden. We are only now learning how many opportunities were available during the `90's to rid the world of Bin Laden but Clinton chose not to take advantage of them. Not that it would have made much difference, eliminating Bin Laden does not solve the problem. A hundred more will rise to take his place.
There is no support to be gained in the Middle East. Even the citizens of Kuwait have forgotten our sacrifices on their behalf. There is a large militant Islamic movement taking control of Kuwait today. It won't be much longer before they begin producing suicide bombers to kill the infidel Americans.
It would be nice if we could force these people to act rationally and discuss our differences and make peaceable arrangements that would avoid war. But I fear that would have no more success than Neville Chamberlin, who, though he had a signed agreement to wave at the cameras as he stepped off the plane to declare "Peace in Our Time!", the other signature was Adolf Hitler's. A man who had no problem signing agreements that made his plans for world domination simpler.
There is no evidence that our opponents in this conflict are any more honorable that Adolf Hitler.
Our military is the finest in the world, It is made so by the brave men and women that have chosen to fight (if necessary) for their country. They all deserve our respect. From the first private in the Virginia militia over two hundred years ago, to the last reservist we call to duty today. I hope and pray that none of them will have to give their lives for this country. But I would remind them of the word's of George S. Patton...
"You are not being sent there to die for your country...but to make sure that the other poor dumb S.O.B. dies for his!"
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
I'll agree that many Americans have certainly left a bad taste in the mouth of the rest of the world, and that America is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
In reading your comment and the lyrics to the Rush tune, an unbidden recollection of a Star Trek episode came to mind.
On a planet far, far away too rival populations the "Yangs" and the "Coms" fought for control. In the end Capt. Kirk was able to unite the rival tribes within the "yangs" because ("Citizen of the Universe" or not) he recognized the American Flag and understood the opening lines of the preamble to the Declaration of Independence (though they were horribly mangled).
Quite frankly, I can't think of a character (real or fictional) that better exemplifies the concept of "universal citizen" yet the Patriotism that many scoff at even today was a central part of that character.
Pride in ones homeland is a good thing, rubbing it in the face of outsiders is not. If one takes pride in a thing they will care for it and protect it. These are also good things. the person that takes pride in something has a better understanding of those that also are proud of their homeland. Ultimately it can lead to a common respect.
But when there is not enough pride to engender the caring and protecting, decay sets in. when those living within the decay see others that don't live in such conditions they don't comprehend why and resentment builds. The resentment often grows into jealousy and then hatred. Eventually these "have not's" feel the only way to 'level the field' is through violence.
Sad, but if they had taken pride in building their homelands in the first place a different result might have happened.
The Bird of Prey
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Can't say I'm surprised...
This should make it a little clearer for you
#msg-480972
The Bird of Prey
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Lest anyone become mired in the plethora of commentaries concerning the individuals involved in this disagreement I will post in clear and concise terms the central core of this disagreement. Be forewarned that it will contain a clinical description of an example of the type profanity that certain members are indicating a support for unfettered use.
It is not suitable for the faint of heart.
What follows is extremely disgusting and illegal on a number of levels.
Quahog, Patricia_1 and Phil(bullrider) support completely JXM's continued use of a slang term (and other similar terms) that describes the following...
"the act of sucking semen from the anal or vaginal orifice of an animal"
I apologize for having to descibe this. But it seems necessary considering the passionate support JXM has received. Those that have weighed in against the use of language in this manner...your efforts are appreciated.
Those that have posted in support should be ashamed of themselves.
Those of you sitting on the fence should also be ashamed.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Au contraire,
I have only shared the joke with one other individual. None of the persons currently being mentioned as my "posse" have any idea what it really means.
but we digress, the real issue here is profanity.
The Bird of Prey
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I simply think that your use of it is a gross oversimplification, evidencing a complete lack of understanding as to the dynamics of a cyber-community composed largely of sophisticated, intelligent and independent persons.
You would think differently if I revealed the inside joke.
So, you find JXM sophisticated? intelligent? I won't quibble with independent.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
I don't lobby to remove people. I will point out certain individuals that management may wish to consider removing, but I don't demand that they be removed. I am not demanding that you be removed. I do believe you need some jail time to rethink the profanity issue.
Besides, with your groups penchant for multiple aliases, I wouldn't stand a chance.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Then why aren't you leading?
Perhaps you can explain why you feel it necessary to respond as a group when "one of those you like and appreciate" is having difficulty prevailing in an argument.
FTR, I coined "posse" as an inside joke. Seems that you didn't respond well to "minions", "gang", "cohorts", "conspirators" or (my personal favorite) "cronies". Of course, if you knew the story behind it you probably wouldn't like it very much either. In you case ignorance will remain bliss.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Phil,
We aren't talking about the occasional "venting" or the use of the "seven you can't say on TV" (at least used to couldn't say on TV). Though too frequent use of these is a sign of weakness and I'd prefer no one use them, I certainly don't go around after every one that has ever written one in a post. the particular offender here though has a tendency to use several terms that are extremely inappropriate. Terms Bob might not want to have to explain to a daughter or even a son. Terms that describe acts that are so vile as to be illegal. Terms that describe acts of serious perversion.
I would be far more forgiving of the person that cursed after striking their thumb with a hammer than with someone that takes the time to deliberately write it down!
When it is done strictly for the purpose of humiliating and belittling another it clearly shows that the user has run out of valid arguments and seeks to win by intimidation. This is as true in the real world as it is in cyberspace.
It often starts with the simple, so-called "four-letter word" and when those become ineffective (no longer intimidate) stronger language is used. The person in this case has so overused profanity that he must resort to the most vile and disgusting terms to achieve the effect.
IH's policy on Profanity is clear and is there for protection of IH from persons that would go where JXM has gone with it.
Defend him as you like, but there is no defense for it.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Did you learn how to parse sentences from JXM?
Talk about dredging up old news! and trying to suck up to management at the same time!
If you had read the complete story you'd not that Bob and I have exchanged numerous non-combative messages since. we actively exchange non-combative PM's as well. The issue has been resolved to the apparent satisfaction of both parties involved and has been laid to rest.
I agree that Bob is worthy of respect. I find it laughable that I'm accused of "picking on" poor little JXM. JXM was already demonstrating his alleged skills when I simply commented on an opponents observation. The post was not directed at JXM nor did it mention his name. As usual JXM has no real argument so he can only assault with his quite limited inventory. Remove the use of profanity and he has nothing at all.
But you wanted me to talk about you! Well, this will probably be disappointing, but here goes...
In keeping with the liberal use of HHGTTG references...
Patricia_1 - Camp Follower
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
huh?
You put up an indefensible argument that profanity is necessary and call anyone that disagrees a member of MY posse?
PUHLEASE!
BTW, it looks like yours has gotten smaller.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
I have no idea what the citizenship of any other Grandfathers might be.
I based my suggestion on the term "founding" members and the irrefutable fact that IH is located within and operates from the United States.
I, for one, am getting just a wee bit perturbed with "PC" and this notion that we must multi-culturalize everything. I have no difficulty with persons from outside the US visiting, participating, sharing or joining our culture. I respect their right to practice whatever customs they wish in the privacy of their home, hotel room, travel trailer, etc. I do ask however that they be tolerant enough to understand that if I wish to pray in public, fly an American flag, display American Icons on my website or celebrate American culture in AMERICA...that I have the right to do so. Just as I suspect they would in their own home countries.
BTW, if an Englishman is offended by my suggestion for a "founding" members icon here at IH...
GET OVER IT.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Sara,
I've been following this line of discussion and while I prefer peaceful resolution, it isn't always possible. IMHO this path leads not to WWIII but to Armageddon. The "one of their own" may indeed come forth...and turn out to be the AntiChrist.
You call for a light hand with Saddam and wonder if GW isn't trying to even the score for his father, while at the same time applauding the reforms in Pakistan and the Post Taliban Afghanistan. Do you think the plight of Kurdish women in Northern Iraq is any less horrendous than those in the aforementioned countries. Do you believe that Saddam will waste one second in launching a nuclear or biologic equipped SCUD at Tel Aviv the moment it's available? Whether it is years or hours away is irrelevant. Saddam has been developing these weapons for DECADES. The moment he can attack he will. and he'll likely be praised for doing so, right up to the moment the Israeli Nukes start falling.
We have a window of opportunity where we may be able to postpone the inevitable Armageddon by making a swift and decisive military operation to remove Saddam from power, which should be followed quickly by assaults on several other of his neighbors as well. I fear however that we won't. and that many billions will die needlessly in the horror that will follow.
We've tried all peaceable avenues. Our enemies want War.
To everything there is a Season
A time to every purpose
Under Heaven.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Very well put,
However, you have demonstrated yourself to be a thoughtful and rational poster. I for one, would love to read your thoughts on the subject at hand, even if you chose to share them via PM. Somehow, deep down, I've got a feeling that you and I may not be too far apart on this issue.
BTW, I disagree with Sara on this somewhat but I am not going to call her any names as a result. She has also shown herself to be a rational and thoughtful poster and as such deserves to be treated with respect. (I'm not saying that you or anyone else here would call her names <G>)
I've always thought that any idea can be expressed thoughtfully and rationally. And if presented so should be responded to in kind.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Here's one.
you may need to shrink it a little.
The Bird of Prey
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anna 1 anna 2 anna 3 eom
The Bird of Prey
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I suggest a the following for a "Founding" (read paid grandfathered) member.
Mt Rushmore icon or
front face of the quarter icon (george washington profile)
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
CM,
I would agree with you with the following stipulation. If the person uttering the expletive is not known for doing so, then it can have the effect you describe. However, if every other word out of someones mouth is profanity it loses a great deal of it's effect.
For example: how many foul mouthed comedians come and go every year vs. the fact that people still talk about Bill Cosby's comment on people that use cocaine (the only time I've ever heard of him using a curse word).
BTW, how are things on your end?
The Bird of Prey
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Edit: I might expect the effect to be devestating were I to stoop to using such language.
Bob,
Have you ever heard the Bill Cosby routine about the Mechanic telling him what is wrong with his car? Your post reminded me of that.
Mech (as heard by customer): Well, your frazilator and your bobulator aren't feeding the carburator before the nombulator.
Customer: So, What's Wrong with it?
Mech: It's broken.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Bob,
As you and Matt well know, I will not hesitate to blast either or both of you when I feel it is necessary. However, I also hope that both of you know that I will also heap lavish praise upon you when necessary as well.
I am not a "geek" (at least I don't think so), but I was able to pick up on the gist of the the exchange between you and Ste.
IMNSHO, the slight was uncalled for. I might call you many things but "inept" isn't one of them (at least as far as programming is concerned) <G>
I am glad to see that you and Matt are proceeding with your business plan in a logical rational manner. Your dedication to maintaining the site is to be applauded. <APPLAUSE>
Keep this up and I may actually have to take back some of the things I have said about you in the past.
Thanks for all you've done Here at IH.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
I see your nickname "Ironhead" really does describe you accurately!
There is no cause too futile, no argument too inane, no alleged insignificant offense too insignificant for you to hold forth as a shining beacon to the worth of YOUR cause.
Although YOU took great offense, no one else did. Not even the alleged "victim"! Not even The management here at IH. Just YOU! and a couple of your "buddies". Amazingly some of your "buddies" have been "booted". For committing some of the very offenses of which you hold me the most vile perpetrator.
Boy am I glad you've now let everyone know how "little" it takes to "impress" you. Just Curse!
Note: you'll remain unimpressed.
You see, I "learned" a long time ago how to call people filthy names. In the interim I've managed to "UNlearn" that questionable talent.
In closing, I don't need to curse any more than I need to make "threats" veiled or otherwise. Aside from your own perception of a single comment within a single post there are no examples of threatening anyone in my writings. Even in the post where I allegedly slighted your sainted mother there is no threat, implied, veiled or otherwise.
You are trying to call me on the carpet for offenses that exist only in your fevered brain.
I am calling you on the carpet for accusing myself and others of bestiality and perversion. Many of the acts of which you have accused people are criminal offenses in many states.
If this is the kind of "language" you require in order to be able to "communicate" your thoughts, I stand by my original assessment of you as an individual. You are a danger to those around you and society in general. Perhaps the local constable should search your property for evidence.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
of the most gruesome wars and human tortures have been committed for the cause of religion preferences.
Sad but all too true. Most every religion has it's "Convert or Die!" phase. Some just last longer than others.
What is really interesting to note are the other two primary reasons for war...LAND...Available Women.
It is worth noting that China currently has an extensive surplus of Single males, expected to reach 100 million plus in the next few years.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
All Hail JXM! Defender of the Profane!
Yes, we all know that Rhett Butler said "Frankly My Dear, I don't give a damn!"
But comparatively few literary works with ANY profanity make the top 100 list. Yes, some do make the national lists, but not as many as you'd like to believe.
Of course comparing posts on a message board to great literary works is more than a bit of a stretch don't you think?
Besides, your use of profanity borders on the early adolescent fanaticism with the shock value of these words. You typically get into games of one upsmanship with other users trying to top each others last profanity. Hardly the stuff of Chaucer that.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Ahhh!
That explains it. I keep forgetting that you do have a vocabulary beyond your usual potty mouth drivel. That is what makes you such a sad waste. You have the talent to inspire, yet you prefer to wallow in the mire of your own filth.
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Muell,
Are you aware that in all of recorded history(~6000years) there are less than 50 years (I don't recall the exact number, but it is ridiculously small) that don't(didn't) have a "war" going on somewhere?
That said, though I am not a transportation, shipping or Postal worker, though I am not a meter reader or home service repairman, I will, as a citizen of the United States report any suspicious activity I witness to the proper authorities. This is now and long has been the duty of every citizen of this country. In Peacetime or when at war. Whether the ACLU likes it or not!
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Should just happen once and then everything's fine?
Couldn't log in for about 5-10 minutes, I must have tried right after you adjusted the weighting and then waited until you fixed it. That is not too bad, from broken to fixed in less than 10 minutes!
On outages... ca ca occurs. <G>
The data used for the ad engine is just getting hit too frequently for it to handle a 1-second long rebalance.
This would be a good thing, No?
getting hit too frequently = Traffic
The Bird of Prey
#board-381
Belgium?????eom
The Bird of Prey
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but then I was raised by loving parents!
It seems that this trait is becoming a rarity in todays world. sad.
The Bird of Prey
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Bob,
Just had the following error when logging in
ADODB.Field error '800a0bcd'
Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been deleted. Requested operation requires a current record.
/boards/ads/getad.asp, line 8
The Bird of Prey
#board-381