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First of all, what you or I think is irrelevant. The rest of the world is counting the days til they dump us.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090326-718379.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/business/2009/03/200932472828491258.html
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hPVetfLOSiNdHDRFuDna-J4SVT7w
We've just created trillions upon trillions of them and diluted the value that much more.
As far as a substitute for the US Dollar, how about ANYTHING that's not simply paper backed by thin air.
The Federal Reserve did exactly what the founders of this nation predicted it would...
"If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied." - Thomas Jefferson
"I don't think there is any substitute for the US Dollar!!! This idea is absurd!!!"
So after getting burnt at Enron, you bought wamu in bk, and now you're telling us that we're screwed?
I hate to say it but you may be the only person I've ever encountered that I hope actually lost money when the bank was stolen, simply because if not... then you have serious mental issues.
"You can forget-about-it, We are screwed! Look what happened to enron I bought after the bk and got nothing because i wasn't holding beffore the collapse."
I wouldn't hold your breath.
Well, some of the guys over there have spoken with Tal Sapeka at Weil. Thats how we knew complaint was filed the suit was coming.
f.ckthewhat is one of the guys I trust more than anyone else. I've got a handful of people here and there that I trust and if you're talking about him talking about the shares in the float and stuff about how the Ps can't be converted... well, he's the guy and I do trust him.
You know who you trust here I'm sure and from my experience... he's one of the guys over there that I do trust.
Now... the speed freak, hehe I'd like to think he can be trusted or that he's at least saying something, but after tonight, I don't know.
There appear problems with those #s. He's got 40 for the Ks. He also was insisting 12 for wamuq and 12 for lehmq. Someone said, I hope the hold up isn't lehman negotiations to which he simply said... "no time... wamuq 24"
We've all seen what a brain on drugs looks like. GD's posts make the average human brain look like this.
http://www.kobweb.co.uk/thinkamo/maurice21_files/image008.jpg
how in the world can a chart tell me if a company will be bought out, receive a settlement, or is going to be involved in a major lawsuit?
The charts on UQ have been worthless since 9/25/08.
"Look at the chart."
I've got some of the Capital Trusts... I wouldn't touch the common with 10 foot pole.
Only if you're standing under a WaMu sign while they're pulling it down.
"Will this news have an effect on us today?
http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12004602"
I'll agree with you there. And the later in the game it gets, the more I think the value goes up.
JPM and The FDIC would be wise to settle now. The closer they get to crunch time the more Weil has them by the short hairs.
"But it's not necessarily about what they are worth at this point. It's about what it's worth to the parties involved to finish this."
I don't think in it's current state it is. If they go to court and WIN all of the money they believe they've got coming to them... sure why not.
Negotiations are a tricky thing. Typically a company in WMI's place is not going to have the leverage to demand anything and cal me crazy, but I don't see them nabbing too more than is mentioned in the lawsuit, even with all of the undeterminds.
I'd be more than happy to escalate my expectations once JPM reveals the assets they supposedly purchased. Once they've done that... and there's a tentative date set up for discovery relevant to the FDIC lawsuit, they would probably be in a position to demand more... to keep the dirty laundry hidden.
If negotiations are ongoing at this point in time, then I think WMI is in a position to accept less than if JPM has revealed the assets they purchased, simply because I expect once that's been done, Weil will bump the totals in the FDIC lawsuit and probably hit JPM with one as well.
But what the heck do I know?
And as much as I want to believe 12 dollars a share is realistic, at this point in time it seems like a heck of a stretch. Too many uncertainties for me to feel confident that kind of cash/stock dilution would be in play.
In another week... I could swing 180 degrees and think they're entitled to demand more than $12 a share.
And I'll be shocked to see a "buyout".
That's just my opinion.
I like being wrong when it's to my/our benefit... and many of you know far more than I do so if anyone is new here I hope you won't be discouraged by my comments. They're based PURELY on speculation.
"So you don't think WMI the holding company is worth 24 Bil? Why not?"
Seemed like he might have been talking about a stock swap scenerio. But I agree. 12 seems almost on the cusp of the surreal, even for wamuq.
"I can barely see $12 for WAMU, but I have NO IDEA where denke is getting $12 for LEHMQ."
You've got pieces of Gary Denke's riddles from over on the yahoo board. He seems to be alluding to Wamu, Lehman, and a third party becoming one.
Also stating $12 for Lehmq, $12 for WaMuq, and lots of other stuff.
Never buy stocks because someone else told you to. Never buy stocks because of cryptic messages.
But if things play out the way he's implied, a lot of people are going to forever remember the good natured riddler over on the yahoo board.
Kinda hard to imagine seeing Lehman worth 12 bucks all of the sudden. I can't believe their capital trust shares trade lower than the common shares...
Lehman is DEEEEEEEP in the whole. So think twice before playing that hand.
Some of us are dabbling over there as well though. In case we live to witness, not just one miracle, but two...
Even if you're right, and you're not as you've failed to address the multitude of assets (some of which we were probably owned by WMI and we'll probably know more about that next week) that also went up in smoke for a net 0 return to WMI...
But even if you're right you've still failed to understand that WaMu could have borrowed up to 50 billion from the Federal Reserve. Apparently they were in the process of bolstering the bank with cash when it was seized and that's why there is a bank statement for a deposit and the cash never made it into the account.
Regardless, unless WMI wanted the banks seized, they'd just have borrowed what they needed from the Fed and been done with it.
But they never got a letter from the FDIC stating that they were in danger of being seized. Without said letter they couldn't lawfully have been seized and had they gotten such a letter they could have simply borrowed what they needed until they stabilized.
And for the record, we've seen multiple cases now where banks were screwed over by the FDIC and turned around to sue, and they won.
I believe we'll know more once JPM presents a list of assets, if they are even capable of doing so... at which time WMI's legal staff will compile a list of goodies that JPM couldn't have purchased and the FDIC couldn't have seized, simply because they didn't belong to the bank.
Give it time... We'll all know more soon enough.
"There was a "run on the bank" and it burned up all the cash that wamu had and changed the ratio."
I'd say it's well deserved. Bair had guts to do what she did. Sometimes bravery and stupidity go hand in hand. She deserves and award, and an early retirement party.
"On another note, the Boston Globe today announced the recipients of the JFK Profile in Courage awards and one of the recipients will be Sheila Bair."
The news is wrong, as usual. Tally the A/L for yourself.
Read the comments, then go to http://wamuqd.com and listen for yourselves.
"you guys see this http://dayton.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2009/03/23/daily32.html?ana=yfcpc "
CNBC reported that the FDIC was going to seize WaMu later in the day on the 25th. Since it was a Thursday, and banks are never seized on Thursdays... one would have to assume word came down from the FDIC.
The deception is knee deep and smells like bullcrap... cause it is.
Proof that JPM Committed Perjury or Fraud?
The countersuit claims they only had 2 days notice.
Listen to them in their own words. They're lying to the court, or they lied to their investors...
http://wamuqd.com
Just my opinion of course. :O)
It was reported to be a stock swap... I don't know because I don't exactly trust the press reports on the topic, especially after the fact. Ya know, for obvious reasons.
But someone needs to do something.
"Ok well even at $4 offered from JPM it clearly shows they would pay that.. "
It was actually a stock swap that WMI rejected because the believed it was worth less than 8 dollars... or so it was reported.
I don't know how the 8 dollars a share thing got going, but I think it was closer to 4. Then again, who knows how the media has spun these details. I just hope people aren't banking on 8, just in case your 6 cent shares only pull in 4 dollars each. :)
"WaMu in March rebuffed a takeover offer from JPMorgan Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon that WaMu valued at $4 a share."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=av8gIaGIF6EY
"The newspaper cited unnamed sources close to the deal as saying that J.P. Morgan had made an all-stock bid for WaMu worth as much as $8 a share. But the bank rejected the deal, saying the offer was unclear and worth significantly less than $8 a share, the report said.
J.P. Morgan executives were reportedly furious that WaMu had rebuffed the advance and immediately cut off negotiations, the Journal reported."
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/wamu-spurned-jp-morgan-bid/story.aspx?guid=%7B7EC32E10-1195-4897-BCC4-09800A1067BF%7D&tool=1&dist=bigcharts&symb=WM&sid=5337
Thanks for sharing... FIRST video I've seen on it.
Since at the end of September is insolvent the formerly largest savings bank of the USA, Washington Mutual. The share notes only at few cent. Now investors hope due to a billion-complaint for an enormous comeback of the failure bank.
Yesterday the share the insolvent Washington Mutual, briefly, shot WaMu over over 40 per cent upward. Reason for the jump in prices was the announcement of the bank collapsed to sue the national insert protection FDIC for over 13 billion dollar. Main reproach is that the selling price of the bank section took place from WaMu at JPMorgan in September 2008 to a much at low price.
Unit deformation?
At that time everything went completely fast: Quasi over night WaMu was placed under supervision of the FDIC and then with the bank section the piece of filet to the good deal price from 1.9 billion dollar to JP Morgan „pushed “. Many experts already at that time actually spoke of unit deformation, because for the likewise strauchelnde, but clearly smaller bank Wachovia, had Wells fargo few days later approximately 15 billion dollar on the table to put.
Of 0,06 to 7.60 dollar?
Still it is completely uncertain to what extent the complaint of WaMu has chance for success. Unclear it is likewise to what extent by with a possible success first still creditors at that time of the strongly fastened bank do not have to be satisfied. Some investors open the following calculation nevertheless: With approximately 1.7 billion pending WaMu shares and a payment of 13 billion dollar a share quotation of approximately 7.60 is calculated dollar. In relation to the current course this would correspond to an increase of proud 12,500 per cent (!)
Everything is possible
Such a rise is surely rather wishful thinking of some gamblers, yet it might come with the long dead believed WaMu share in the next weeks further to violent course excursions. Courageous speculators can quite deal with the current level a small position. Because a course doubling or a more is quite possible - however also a total loss of the assigned capital. Nothing for weak nerves.
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deraktionaer.de%2Fxist4c%2Fweb%2FWashington-Mutual--Die-12-500-Prozent-Chance-_id_201__dId_9796479_.htm&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
Bank was sold within hours on the 25th.
Who saw this yesterday?
It's like one of those brain teasers... how many problems with this can you find?
As I've been saying since this article came out...
Three weeks in advance, yet the bank run was from the 15th to the 25th.
Do the math.
You too...
You've been a real champ here, regardless of what anyone says. :O)
"Thanks for all your hard work regarding this whole mess!"
With all of the manipulation today... I REALLY thought once it broke .06 it was going to tank. But it held it's own. WaMu is the little stock that could... and if we could just get the damn MMs to cut the crap Wamu would quickly become the big stock that always should have been.
Definitely getting sick of the manipulation though... Enough is enough. The SEC should be gutted, if for no other reason than they don't do anything... ever, but it's a good way to save some money to put toward the 9 zillion dollar debt we're be accruing.
"Yup. WAMUQ held up nicely."
This is being masked nicely with the bad asset crap today. Relax and think about all the time you've put into this. Another week or two isn't going to kill you.
Once JPM shows their cards on the 31st, we'll see the claims of this lawsuit multiply 20 fold... if it even lasts that long.
"Have to admit, I'm disapointed here. .063? Sigh...."
This one's better... it won't kill the bandwidth on my site.
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-44541/TS-205829.mp3
Audio File Update...
http://wamuqd.com/wamuq.mp3
I don't know why the host site went down but I made a few quick corrections, namely... the OTS not the FDIC seized the bank. I know it was the OTS, but it just doesn't EVER come of out my mouth properly.
If the other host comes back online I'll move the corrected version over there and update the link.
In the meantime, this was the best I could put together while not sleeping. I am seriously over tired. Sorry it's not better.
I don't know if this audio file will help educate anyone as far as the lawsuit and stuff... But I thought I'd throw it together for the heck of it. If you think it'll help, pass it along and repost where you think it should be... if anywhere.
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-44541/TS-205829.mp3
Killinger called Paulson personally to ask to be added to the no short list and Paulson said "No, you should have sold to JPM when they made the offer and you should do so now... Things are going to get worse for you."
Stage one of the assault on Lehman and WaMu came via short selling.
The SEC is worthless.
Hey Z, If you're reading these posts...
Thanks for everything man. I want everyone to know I wouldn't be here tonight and I'd never have made the first WaMu Truth video if not for you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
You're the man...
Once I finish WaMuQ'd I'll be sure to put a big fat thank you in there with your name attached to it.
16 billion mentioned. 8 billion of TPG's money. And then the value for any and all assets that JPM admits they purchased from the FDIC on 3/31.
Speculation is stupid. Make an educated guess. If the FDIC doesn't settle the numbers on this lawsuit can quickly escalate to closer to 100 billion dollars.
Read the documents for yourself.
You might not think that WMI can win. For those of us that have read the court filings from day one, we know that with an honest trial... WMI can't lose.
The FDIC will need to settle this and settle it quickly before it spirals out of control. A prolonged public trial will see all of the dirty laundry aired in public.
WaMu's dirty laundry has already been exposed. Now lets see what the FDIC and JPM are hiding.
Bring it to trial. It'll be a laugh riot to see Bair try to explain why she knowingly stole WMI property and to watch Dimon try to explain if he had all of WMI's data tapes and computer info for weeks... well, how was it that he didn't know he was buying and is currently in possession of stolen goods.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg that would come out.
Why did they FDIC decide to hold a secret auction behind WMI's back with the same people WMI was trying to sell to? Why did they goad WMI into making capitol injections if they knew they were only going to seize the bank anyway.
If there's a trial... it'll be like watching Chevy Chase hanging Christmas lights on Saturday Night Live.
"There's no substance valve in the Law Suit, only speclulative. I have 100k shares that I will sell to anyone for $1 PPS, right now. Any takers? Perhaps I should put them on E-Bay and see how high of a bib I can get before the market opens."
Just calling it like I see it. :O)
A Checkmate Moment...
Weil has the FDIC's back against the wall. Later this month JPM is under court order to show up in court and reveal to the Judge as well as everyone else, exactly what they purchased from the FDIC.
They objected and tried to get out of it, but the judge upheld the order. Now, JPM is forced to show up and state they bought x, y, and z from the FDIC. The more they claim to have purchased, the more the FDIC is on the hook. Once JPM reveals what they believe they purchased, then expect WMI's lawsuit against the FDIC to be revamped with a multitude of escalating numeric values replacing the "undetermined" portions of the lawsuit details.
The more JPM declares they purchased... the more the FDIC is on the hook for. It's a beautiful thing to see this backroom deal coming full circle. All that is done in the dark will be brought to light.
Bash til your heart is content. WMI has the FDIC and JPM in a checkmate moment. The FDIC would be lucky to get off settling for the 16 billion that's already mentioned in the suit.
Will the commons get anything from that? Study the assets vs liabilities. Even if there isn't a direct payout, we'll be holding shares in a company coming out of bk in the 3rd quarter... a company bogged down in cash and with all of it's liabilities paid free and clear.
Flip now and you might pick up a car. Sell later and you might not have to work again. Don't take my word for it. Go through the research at http://wamustory.com.
I'm just hoping the Qs shoot up faster than the Ps. I want to convert some more. If I can pull that off... I'll celebrate with a Baja Blast from Taco Bell.
When the FDIC settles...
You and me both. I slept about 4 hours since Friday. This is going to be a long night.
All it will take is for the multitude of undetermined amounts not specified in the suit to have #s attached to them to push the number from a 16 billion to 100 billion dollar lawsuit.
The MMs will play, but in the end only a fool would sell until a settlement is reached. The FDIC and JPM cannot let this fester in a market like this. Keep in mind that Lehman is represented by the same law firm and they're already suing JPM for freezing accounts which directly forced the company into bk.
The chickens have come home to roost for JPM and the FDIC. They'll settle or foreign investors will flee like the bird flu is passing through America's financial market.
"All it would take is a counter-lawsuit or the IRS to prove it's 12B claim and all the other stocks come crashing down."
Great I just sold all of my shares...
Kidding. :O)
This is going to be a loooong weekend.
I can't even sleep.