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Well it seems I picked up some more shares today. Didn't even realize it... lol How the hell did I get filled at .420 when that was the low of the day??
Let's get this baby rockin' I'll be more than happy to buy more on the way up.
We have been channel surfing between 2.80 and 3.15 for quite a while now. So IMO anything below 2.80 is a good buying opportunity. I got about half my third buy before they moved it up. I'll probably hang on to see if they give me another chance later today, this week or next Monday.
Getting ready to step in here
That was in reference to the uspto overriding a jury decision on infringement.
Not really anything going pre-market. 14k vol is nothing 2.80! But too early to tell stlii think it might hit 2.50 but 2.65 might hold. Hopefully the market doesn't overact to the same old garbage dealt out by Google.
I still think we are good. Any workaround talk should be ignored by HJJ but who knows what he is thinking.
VRNG will probably take all the time allotted to cross their T's and dot their I's. at least I hope so! An outstanding response could wrap this up by next week.
I'm most likely making my third and final buy on any dip today.
Ok who has the buy order at 1.85 lol
Well I read the whole thing!
Seems that Google believes this is the last hoorah. They pretty much believe everything the court agreed on is premised on falsehoods. The problem is that the court system should base all decisions on facts (those during the trial).
I guess we will see if HJJ asks for oral arguments on the supposed work around. If so I am out cause this would constitute in my mind a retrial outside of a jury trial. Not sure how that all works but don't think it is appropriate. HJJ should rule on this and let Google take any workaround proposal to the appeals system.
Guessing the market will take this pretty hard like last time. We will see in the morning.
Have a good night GLT us all
I appreciate the info as I was curious as to how that was handled. This how we learn from those experienced.
Thanks again!!!
That's one bet I will leave to the professionals.
Thank you JJ,
So it is frowned upon by the courts then but not necessarily a mandated response?
Or Would they be looking at contempt or ?
Like I said they will most likely do so. The only reason not to would be in fear of pissing the judge off and looking as though they where desperate and becoming justice delayers.
Fair enough let's see what happens
Possible I guess. Just read it as if you have further issues to bring up then you have ten days to do it otherwise I will rule. Like I said no lawyer here lol
You will have to get a lawyer on this one but if they have nothing more to add then they have nothing more to add.
Oh just throwing this out there but I don't believe they have to respond at all. Sure they will but who knows what they are thinking. We will see...
While we understand your long position, we ARE talking about this ruling.
Of course absolutely no one including you can say how the market will respond as a matter of fact.
Nor can anyone say what MSFT is thinking as a matter of fact.
All we have is speculation hence the reason it IS a speculative play. Therefore speculation, some based on extensive experience others not. Take everything with a grain of salt and watch it play out.
If you are LONG then why does it matter what anyone thinks. After all you will still be holding the same position in a year or 2 or 3 as you say right?
My guesstimations they mean nothing other than what I think is reasonable considering the short amount and the interest in this particular play.
3.5% = 3.50-4.50
5.0% = 4.50-6.00
7.0% = 6.00 +
I don't have a clue who Francis is but I am fine lol
Don't tell me what to comment on and what not to...Who Are You???
Another garbage SA article.
2.50-2.65 but I'd expect 2.65 to hold true once again.
Usually the long candle that reverses on the chart "hammered" for the bottom/top of a run.
You guys are doing a great deal of work trying to figure out a fair value to the stock price. I like it don't get me wrong but this is a speculative stock. Speculative means that most likely it will not be a fairly valued company in the short term. It is the future possiblities of company and the short term catalysts that will drive the price action. Right now with the possiblilty of another delay along with the possibility of a favorable RR ruling the market is basically saying that between 3.15 and 2.80 is the value/risk. I.E. The risk/reward is fair within this channel it is now trading.
These type of plays go down/up as the risk/reward changes. When google responds the risk will go up therefore the pps will go down. Vice versa. It basically at this point has nothing to do with the current or past financials other than they won't need to do any dilution in the near future. The shorts are playing the risk to their advantage and the shareholders are taking the side of a good RR ruling. There could be a small impact of future prospects but mostly right now is overabundantley the reason it is where it is.
If there is a considerable amount of time that passes between this ruling and MSFT or ZTE the market will decide again the risk/reward price of the stock depending on near-term catalyst.
Summing it up It's virtually impossible to come to a fair value of a stock that is in the middle of litigation of this magnitude compared to the actual revenue and profit/loss. The market value is the fair value at this time in the companies history. You can reasonably say that they will be fairly valued at x if y happens but it is meaningless other than possibly giving a wide range of value if x,y or z happens.
VRNG has a long road ahead of it in litigation. Some say years but most are looking at near term catalysts. I have more thoughts but I'm tired of writing.
GLTY'all
Watch for the inverted bumps. Focus on your salad.
This is a pr and does constitute any legal thought but may help:
The Laches Ruling
On the morning of October 31, 2011 -- Day 11 of the VRNG v. GOOG Trial -- Judge Jackson granted GOOG's motion to limit the damages available to VRNG based on the doctrine of laches (Trial Tr. At 1800). This decision eliminated at least $350 Million of VRNG's past damages theory, and resulted in VRNG stock dropping from a daily high of $4.47 to a low of $1.75 before closing at $2.56 -- an interesting day on the candlestick chart!
If a patentee waits to file a patent suit for more than six years from the date that they knew or "should have known" of someone's infringement, then the elements of the laches defense -- unreasonable delay, and harm from the delay -- are presumed to exits, and unless they are rebutted, laches will be found.
Judge Jackson found that VRNG knew or should have known about GOOG's infringement more than six years before it filed suit, so the presumption applied:
(Trial Tr. 1802) Judge Jackson ruled that VRNG had not presented adequate evidence to rebut the presumption.
Judge Jackson also ruled that VRNG did not address the potential prejudice of delay from witness memory loss:
(Trial Tr. 1805) The result of Judge Jackson's ruling is that VRNG can only get past damages from GOOG going back to the filing of the case (October 2011), and not for the 6 years prior.
Judge Jackson Denies Laches Motion Before Briefing Is Complete
VRNG's opening Motion on laches and GOOG's Opposition have been filed (Dkt. 837 & 863), and VRNG's Reply was due this Friday, February 15. The Judge did not wait for the Reply, however, but on January 31, denied VRNG's Motion for Judgment under Rule 52(b) and a New Trial under Rule 59 on Laches (Dkt. No. 835).
Even before the Judge ruled, the outcome of VRNG's laches motion was evident. Judge Jackson listened to VRNG's arguments at trial, but was clearly not buying them, and I did not see anything in the papers that would have changed that.
Laches Will Not Be Overturned On Appeal
VRNG may appeal Judge Jackson's laches ruling to the Federal Circuit. However, laches is one of the many areas where a trial judge is given broad discretion. The standard for overruling the Judge's laches ruling is the high "abuse of discretion" standard, and I just don't see that happening in this case. It looks like Judge Jackson considered VRNG's arguments at trial and in its summary judgment and post-trial briefs -- he just does not buy them. At all. The judge is looking at the facts differently than VRNG, but from what I can tell, has not made a fundamental error that would be necessary to overturn the decision.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1173131-vringo-v-google-350-million-that-is-not-coming-back
What r u guys getting all excited about? Oh VRNG is not profitable lol no kidding!
Ha ha CNBC reports Dan Loeb saying he is out of Herbalife the stocks drops 60 cents in three minutes. People are definately jumpy in this one.
Hitting that 44.90 level again let's see if it will blow by it this time.
Welcome, and might I say a very good post for your first one!
If newbies don't understand the volitile nature of Speculative stocks it will definately burn them. Every piece of news can have large effects on the pps at any moment. You do have to have some guts and understand the nature of the beast. While I am pretty new to patent investing I am not new to speculative stocks per say. 12 years in the market and I have seen alot of things happen that never ever should have but it did. Why because we play in a market that doesn't care what is happening fundamentally but on the future possibilities of a stock price. Take a look at DDD this company trades at 95X earnings why? because the market beieves that it is the future replacement to manufacturing in this country.
Disclaimer: I have no posistion in DDD I do post over there because I am studying the stock for future possibilities.
Anyways, It is good and helpful for some to be educated by more experienced investors/traders. But the fact is they will do what they do until they get rid of the emotional factor that hurts so many peoples investment portfolio. No one knows exactly what will happen but if you plan for the worst/best case scenerios and try to think ahead of what may be coming down the pipe it will take some of that emotion out of play.
A bunch of people on MB say things like "I am Long" "I will not sell any until it hits xyz" Get out of here with that garbage you will act upon whatever the market conditions are at the moment you make a decision PERIOD! Tides can change on a dime and you will react.
GLTY'all
BTW I will sometimes watch a stock trade for months before ever entering unless jumping in for a quick profit trade. Not much of a trader but do take profits when they are there. I have not sold one share of this stock but you can bet your butt that I will if I feel I need to no matter what anyone says on a MB.
If it hits $3 I'd be happy to apologize to the world for doing nothing wrong but not buying more. lol
One of these days...One of these days the $700 investment in this is going to make me alot of money... Maybe...maybe not who knows anyways it's fun to speculate. Still gonna buy anytime it's under .03 unless something negative shows it's ugly head.
Sure hope the timing works out. I really want to bring some more $ into this one. I don't post much cause I well you guys got this covered well. But it would be nice to see a double pop on my portfolio within 2 months of each other. BTW you guys do a great job of keeping everyone informed and on their toes lol. There has been some excellent DD on this one even in it's infancy of what could be a long line of lawsuits and RR posibilities in the future.
HJJ has allowed this to be delayed so long that it has allowed doubt to an actual ending of this saga. This doubt coupled with the lack of knowledge has allowed the shorts to pile on every response from google. This is fairly valued as it stands, there has been no ruling on the RR and there is a slight chance that we may see another delay (I personally doubt it but it is still there) The market hates uncertaintity weak hands get scared out shorts love it. There is still some however small it is chance that the ruling comes in low.
IMO
3.5% of 20.9 is low
5.0% of 20.9 is expected
7.0% of 20.9 is good
Also there is a chance of it being 3,5,7% of 40%.
Again watch for dip on Googles response. Due by MONDAY 13th at midnight could come earlier no one knows!!
Watch for slight increase on VRNG's response. Due by Monday 20th at midnight could come earlier no one knows!!
Then we see a ruling on these two responses. On HJJ's schedule!! (More delays or DENIED).
If denied then we see the market truely start valuing in the possibilities of the RR ruling. Then HJJ hands down the RR rates and the stock will act accordingly.
If more delays well it will go down.
Anyone tells you they know what will happen is lying PERIOD. We have time frames that is it! Speculation is fun and all after all this is a speculative stock, but to take every word as fact is just either fooling yourself or just not good practice when using MB as your sole investing DD.
I hope this helps we could all make a lot of money here (btw speculation) but as we have seen it is taking longer than most expected. It could take longer or it could all be over in 1-2 weeks.
But seriously guys what if Microsoft and/or ZTE fall right on the heels of HJJ's ruling? I mean it could catch us by surprise. (speculation)
This is all my speculation and IMO.
Poor JJ I can only imagine how many pm's you are getting.
Would you guys please stop trying to read things into everything posted.
If your that nervous about your investment then you most likely shouldn't have put your money in this.
I understand some of you are new to investing. I am new to patent litigation myself. But I took it upon myself to learn as much as I could. Questions are great and welcome! But repeated questions answered over and over well that just means you haven't been paying attention to your investment. Or maybe you didn't do any personal DD at all.
I'm not trying to offend anyone but if you just take the time to review this board over the past two months most if not all your questions are answered here.
At the very least review JJ, Tom4, tobinator, European and others posts. They have all given great length explanations.
GLTEveryone!!!
This stock is a freak of nature lol...
The sentiment must be towards the announcement of a big acquisition.
High flyer, High short interest equals wild moves I really like this stock and it's future but the valuation means nothing to most and that is scary to say the least.
I like the way they lay out what is going with this company!
It's gonna be tough taking profits if we get a positive RR ruling on google.
Microsoft and ZTE could be right on the heals of this final ruling. Makes you kinda want to just wait it all out. Personally I'll just have to make that decision when the time comes.
It was set to head south anyways but with this yes the low 30's easy!
Good call Star!!!
Thank you JJ.
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.94 2.94 2.95 0
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.95 2.94 2.95 20000
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.95 2.94 2.95 1000
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.949 2.94 2.95 1500
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.945 2.94 2.95 100
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.95 2.94 2.95 900
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.95 2.94 2.95 100
05/07/13 14:49:23 2.945 2.94 2.95 8400
05/07/13 14:49:50 2.95 2.94 2.95 1463
05/07/13 14:49:51 2.95 2.94 2.95 289
05/07/13 14:49:53 2.945 2.94 2.95 1800
05/07/13 14:49:56 2.945 2.94 2.95 0
05/07/13 14:49:57 2.949 2.95 2.96 43974
05/07/13 14:49:59 2.9501 2.95 2.96 1202
05/07/13 14:49:59 2.96 2.95 2.96 2200
05/07/13 14:49:59 2.96 2.95 2.96 1500
05/07/13 14:49:59 2.96 2.95 2.96 500
05/07/13 14:49:59 2.955 2.95 2.96 150
05/07/13 14:50:05 2.955 2.95 2.96 0
05/07/13 14:50:10 2.958 2.95 2.96 1000
05/07/13 14:50:34 2.958 2.95 2.96 0
05/07/13 14:50:50 2.96 2.95 2.96 200
05/07/13 14:50:50 2.955 2.95 2.96 100
05/07/13 14:50:50 2.959 2.95 2.96 900
05/07/13 14:50:50 2.96 2.95 2.96 200
05/07/13 14:51:10 2.96 2.96 2.97 11502
05/07/13 14:51:12 2.9681 2.96 2.97 1400
05/07/13 14:51:18 2.96 2.96 2.97 5100
05/07/13 14:51:18 2.97 2.96 2.97 100
05/07/13 14:51:20 2.97 2.96 2.98 3064
05/07/13 14:51:20 2.965 2.97 2.98 400
05/07/13 14:51:22 2.98 2.97 2.98 1300
05/07/13 14:51:22 2.979 2.97 2.98 2900
05/07/13 14:51:23 2.98 2.97 2.98 3300
05/07/13 14:51:23 2.979 2.97 2.98 300
05/07/13 14:51:25 2.979 2.97 2.98 100
05/07/13 14:51:28 2.979 2.97 2.98 0
05/07/13 14:51:37 2.97 2.97 2.98 374
05/07/13 14:51:38 2.97 2.97 2.98 1410
05/07/13 14:51:42 2.98 2.97 2.98 100
05/07/13 14:51:43 2.98 2.97 2.98 100
05/07/13 14:52:03 2.99 2.99 3.00 14623
05/07/13 14:52:03 2.9999 2.99 3.00 1000
05/07/13 14:52:37 3.00 2.99 3.00 2000
05/07/13 14:52:37 2.991 2.99 3.00 2500
05/07/13 14:52:37 2.999 2.99 3.00 2000
05/07/13 14:52:37 2.995 2.99 3.00 100
05/07/13 14:52:57 2.96 2.96 2.97 45730
05/07/13 14:53:00 2.96 2.96 2.97 0
05/07/13 14:53:01 2.96 2.96 2.97 500
05/07/13 14:53:03 2.965 2.96 2.97 600
05/07/13 14:53:06 2.96 2.96 2.97 100
05/07/13 14:53:08 2.96 2.96 2.97 0
05/07/13 14:53:13 2.965 2.96 2.97 100
05/07/13 14:53:14 2.97 2.96 2.97 450
05/07/13 14:53:30 2.98 2.97 2.98 2211
05/07/13 14:53:58 2.98 2.97 2.98 5300
05/07/13 14:53:58 2.9709 2.97 2.98 800
05/07/13 14:53:58 2.97 2.97 2.98 200
05/07/13 14:53:58 2.971 2.97 2.98 4200
This was taken straight from my one minute chart I keep up (with the volume and MFI) I never said they where all buys but a buyer stepped in With a good amount of shares causing the pps to jump and the volume also shows this as I wrote. Those where not exact numbers but very close.
Just look at the one minute chart/volume.
Why does it matter? It happened we should all know what matters by now. As I posted earlier:
Googles response.
Vrng response to google.
HJJ rules on RR or more delays.
Why are so many still freaking out about day to day movements within this channel we are in? 2.80-3.15
When it steps out of this channel then get excited. 2.75 was an excellent buying opportunity. 3.15 was a great opportunity to flip some.
Everyone is so nervous hanging on every word that is said! Crazy!!!!