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To SKS - Since you read these boards
I completely get the practice of option granting to valued employees. Every business wants to keep its valued employees. Without an endless money supply to support years and years of ongoing developments it seems the most logical way to keep those valuable employees from leaving.
However, you are no longer a development stage company, by your own admission. You are a company who's time for sales and revenue performance has come. Since that hasn't occurred completely as expected, you are now asking us shareholders to help you keep these important people around, and even foot the bill for new employees that, so far, are unnecessary without revenues.
Why? You can't even assure me (shareholder) yet that Wave has a future out that long! Therefore, why is this plan the one that we should approve? You have still not validated your business plan. You have yet to offer a realistic, attainable forecast. You say it's too early to predict revenues, yet you are predicting new employees that need to be granted options.
That's the part I don't get! If you don't make money... you don't grow. If you don't grow ... you don't need new employees. If you don't need new employees ... you don't need more option shares voted to you to give out.
What am I missing?
I asked you in a conference call last year if your employee headcount growth was expected to be in line with your revenue growth. You told me that it was, but that if you suddently got a big order that required you to secure additional resources, all bets were off. Well? Did you get a big order? Is there something we shareholders should know?
If not, then I'm not convinced that this is the appropriate time for this. Show us some enterprise upgrade orders that will help validate the business plan first. If you're making the progress you say you are, then you shouldn't have to work very hard, or wait very long to gain our support for all the right reasons.
So please get the right message here. I am not saying that I wouldn't be open to voting you these shares under the right circumstances. But do you really believe that this is the right time for this? Let's see what the next 2-quarters bring, and then maybe the timing would be better
internet - but for the record ~ I agree with you on replacing the board of directors.
In my mind, that is the proper first move.
internet - first of all, you probably don't have enough money. Second of all, all of the shares you could ever want are still out there to be had if you feel like paying the ask. For a company that's going to be worth $50 shr. what's a penny/shr to you?
Please use another approach.
Snackman - You write
"However, the loudest no votes are coming from the 'others' that participate on another board. Check it out."
Wouldn't that be logical?
Those on the other board have simply grown tired (over time) of:
1. A lagging share price
2. Continued dilution
3. Bonus and rewards to Wave management and employees that don't even work there yet, without tangible performance (i.e. significant revenues, share price). Even though this subject can be brought up anually for vote at the SHM.
4. Arguing with you, and others who refuse to entertain an alternate point of view ~ even though many on the other board own 10s of thousands of shares, and have the right to an opinion, just like you do.
Of course, the obvious response from this board has always been, "Well then if you're not happy why don't you just sell?"
To which, the obvious reply this time is, "well if you want to be rewarded, and have options that far out into the future, why don't you prove to us shareholders [for a change] that voting yes is justifiable?" Obviously, if the shareholders didn't have the right to ask these questions, and/or force some justification then we wouldn't have the voting rights in the first place.
Our vote tells the company how we feel about their performance. If you feel as though management needs this initiative then you should vote your beliefs and be done with it. Let's not make this a "this-board" vs. "that board" issue, because both boards have Wave longs on them. That's an elitist posture that should not interfere on this issue.
Wave has underperformed long enough. Not by what I say, but by what they too have said in the past. They have not done anything to deserve this in many shareholders eyes, and the timing is completely inappropriate, and the far-reaching nature of this proposal is also unnecessary.
It's a valid issue that should be debated and voted on by the individual. Said differently, "You should refrain from trying to make this anything else". FOR ONCE
We've had these vote discussions before.
The same arguments will be made on this board that were made before, either in support of management's decision and timing for that decision, or against.
It deserves mentioning that at some point, the share price has to go up as validation for performance. As a stockholder in this company, I can't validate performance (after 10-years) any other way. I'm sorry ~ this doesn't pencil for me.
Whomever tries to justify this as a pre-cursor to any event yet to come should look at our history. To those who talk about a share price in the 30s to 50s and beyond someday, waiting until the share price goes above $5 / shr isn't too high for Wave's employees and management to still cash in significantly ~ if you truely believe that these share prices are atainable.
If you keep approving this, there's no motivation for change.
Pavlath - Yes I do
TinyPineTree - that's why he's accumulating 1,000 shrs per week right now ~ it seems
crazylarry - 2 - 3 people on the board own more than 60,000 shares
;)
Escrow56 - However, if Dell would simply say, "Dell is using Wave's solution worldwide, because we believe it to be paramount towards protecting our intellectual property" that would do it also.
So let's not always lay it at someone else's doorstep either. If any one of Wave's giant partners would step up to the plate, that would certainly provide almost as significant of a boost in credibility" ---- IMO
Hi Unixguy - IMO we are all waiting for the same thing at this point ~ Snackman, me, probably you, and many others. Each of us has a different way of expressing ourselves while we wait.
Have no doubt, we are all somewhat disappointed in Wave's performance this many years into it. But progress is being made. That is why we all wait ~ some wait together in bunches, while other brood and complain occasionally. But we all wait none-the-less.
However, your question is valid just the same. Wave is at a tipping point. By their own admission Wave needs to close some enterprise deals. While none of us know exactly how long trials will take, we do know that if something doesn't start showing up as deals, and revenue over the next 1 - 2 reporting periods, then one would have to believe that Wave is having some serious unforseen difficulties with either their product, adoption or both.
For whatever reason we all wait, I dare say we don't have to wait too much longer for progress to show itself, or not. So we wait. Yes it's about revenues ~ but which kind of revenues is also important. If it's enterprise revenues and/or significant Seagate revenues we will all breathe easier. If it's not,,,, they'll be a big gasp, then a moan, then a curse or twelve.
Soon enough... Soon enough
Snackman - I can't find anything wrong with what you wrote.
Amazing! Therefore, I agree with you 100%
The share price reflects Wave's performance, and stretching the truth, being optimistic or being a glass half full guy won;t help that either
ONLY REVENUES.
PrecisionIR appears to be nothing more than a Webinar that Wave/PrecisionIR chose to advertise.
I could be wrong...
barge - my how the tide had turned
Now everyone seems to want to ignore what I have to say. lol
I suuppose that if you want to buy Tiger Wood's shirt that he's wearing during a round at the Masters, you'll have to watch it on you your TVTonic computer, so that you can just point-and-click your way to the store, and the purchase
barge - I agree with you
This is an excellent article. I can elaborate, but you'd probably already know what I would say.
This will definitely get things started for WXP, because Microsoft has to compete with Apple, and has budget set aside to do so.
Let the fun begin
T123
Snackman - can you point me to the IHub rules that you keep referring to, so I can read them and adhere to them more appropriately?
I do not have the time to do so. You will have to look it up yourself.
Scorpio - Orders in hand -
yes I do know what they are. And I know how to report them to shareholders too. You are defending the wrong things IMO.
scorpio - the CEO said he had orders in hand. Do you even know what that means? That's not a prediction. That's supposed to be a fact when a CEO says that.
Get with it man
Weby - I have no problem posting both sides of the SKS story.
Here's the good side...
1. He is the best evangelist for Wave, and me as a shareholder, I could ever hope for.
2. Everytime he speaks he is convincing. That's extremely important, and will help Wave go far if what he says actually comes to pass more often than not.
3. I wouldn't be invested in Wave this long if he, or someone like him weren't as articulate and convincing.
4. I think that he and his company have developed something the industry needs and can use, and they deserve ALL of the credit for convincing the industry of this. As an emerging company, when you sell something that people need, and also want then you have a winning business opportunity.
5. I can not think of any other investment at this share price that offers me a better opportunity to increase my wealth. But, as I've said previously, I don't want this CEO to hurt my share price with inaccurate confidence builders that don't come to pass either. I want to believe in what he says, and then see it come to pass. Otherwise, deal with the difficult CC if that's what it has to be.
Weby - These are at least the positives that I'm willing to offer at this time. There are others, but they've been somewhat offset by some of the negatives previously articulated by me in some of my rant posts. So no need to spoil the moment with negatives. :)
Internet. Agreed. Even more reason why his act needs to get together. More information about what has happened (old partners, WXP, etc.) would be helpful too
Weby - For SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley) it should be the easiest sell there could possibly be. For HIPAA it should be too. Same for the government. Personally, I would think same for the banks too.
An enterprise-wide sale... Any enterprise-wide sale requires multi-organization cooperation and buy-in. This takes some time. The other fight would be if Wave and its partners are fighting against other major behemouths (i.e. Cisco). If a firewall isn't needed then there's also a retirement (future-state) plan that must be architected, and implemented over time. So there's lots of reasons why this will take some time too. IT doesn't hurt to have a few bucks for educating (usually via entertaining) the executives either.
So there is a value proposition, and there are some hurdles to getting wide-spread enterprise adoption ~ but the purchase itself should be a no-brainer to all.
That's why I'm invested!
rick5 - I very much hope so too.
Snackman - And not all of my posts are rants, or negative either.
Wrong - I think the share price can be affected by investor confidence. When a CEO says Q2 break even and we don't hit it, it will likely affect the share price. Why? Because the revenues being predicted to hit cash-flow breakeven aren't there. So the two go somewhat hand-in-hand in this case
TinyPineTree - Oh there's something happening alright.
Unfortunately, it's been happening this way for quarters on end. Let me offer an example of why I believe we shareholders deserve better than what we're getting. Let me start by saying I don't believe that we deserve any more than factual statements from our CEO. IF we got them, then I believe our share price would already be twice, or 3-times what it is worth today.
The reason (today) you're not seeing Wave's share price at $4, $5, or $6 already, is because of Steven's stated, yet rarely accurate statements of cash flow break-even. We were told by Steven prior (CC), that we would be cash-flow break-even by Q1, and perhaps even Q406 if conditions accelerated a bit. But dismissing that possibility for a second, next Steven told us that he had orders in hand to make cash flow break-even by 2nd quarter. I believe recent transcripts will prove that to be what he said.
Recently, Steven has backed off of that position, adding that he now needs seat licenses (of some number) to help us get there. Imagine, if you will, that Steven's inital forward-looking statements (either one) were accurate. Imagine that adoption and revenue numbers were actually progressing such that, investors were convinced that "YES" I guess Steven doeas actually have orders in hand to be cash flow break-even by Q2. If his word was true to form ~ where do you think the share price would be right now?
Without dismissing Seagate, and without minimizing the power of Dell in any way, investor confidence, and yes, an elevating share price is based on predictability, in both word and outcome. Steven has been horrible at performing to his word. If he says cash-flow breakeven by Q2 and he does not hit it, then you're not going to see new investors come in with any confidence. No investors, no elevating share price. No confidence in Steven's forecasts, no reason to invest.
So it's not Wave's future that I'm worried about. It looks (potentially) bright enough ~ but only if Wave performs according to stated forecasts. THIS WON'T EVER CHANGE! Steven himself is keeping our share price down right now. I don't very much care if it jumps to $30/share this year. I care that the share price escalates based on execution according to plan. If we don't hit cash-flow breakeven in Q2, after stating that we had orders in hand to do so, then Wave isn't doing us shareholders any favors.
The only favors I want is accuracy of execution according to what's stated. If that can't be accomplished, then I'm looking for a CEO that will explain (honestly) where the orders in hand went, and why the BE prediction now depends on other factors. Invesotr confidence in what Steven says is what will move this stock in a positive direction. All I want is to have confidence in what he says. So far, I find it difficult to afford him that confidence with such a poor track record.
Lastly, I am not the one making the forward-looking statements. Steven is ~ that's why he's the CEO. If there's the potential they won't come true, then he should just not make them. This is not Tampa123 the poster's fault. This is Steven the CEO's fault. And it's negatively affecting my shareholder value far beyond everything else. If we can just clean that up, then I'll believe Steven when he starts every CC call with, "We have made tremendous progress this quarter".
This is not too much for an investor to ask.
titlewave - I too hold on. Wild, long ride
titlewave - unfortunately, it is Steven's last sentence that continues to be the most consistent, and the most accurate "at this time".
t
IF SOX Compliance Write-offs Were Allowed
you would see more spending on larger, holistic solutions. Instead, what we've seen thus far is SOX putting all of the financial burden of proof and compliance onto these same large companies, making sweeping changes additive to their expense line.
Now if the SEC would support incentives that would enable larger companies to spend their money on making infrstructure improvements that would enable better SOX compliance, then I'd think you see significant movement towards enterprise-wide (not incremental point-solutions) solutions.
Right now, it's still a major cross-organization buy-in issue, and as a result, is also a challenge to many coroprate cultures that tend to frown on enterprise-wide adoptions.
It's also expensive .....
Mig - Not a blip this time.
This time I increasedmy total number of shares by selling in the 3+ range, and buying back today. I've been a little too hard-headed with this stock, so I decided to go with the trend that has occurred for the past several years.
I took advantage of the blip this time. To me, it's the same as buying on the dips. Only this way, it didn't cost me any more of my own money
t123
StocWatcher - that makes sense
Weets _ as many say
It's a question of when, not if. So to that I only say:
I agree with all conviction, but at some point when has to become now. Otherwise when might be too late and others may steal Wave's thunder.
I'm just hoping for a sooner when ~ that's all.
That way, we'll all make more money. You know what I'm sayin'?
T123
I wonder why the Seagate relationship wasn't more widely publicized by Wave in their own press release ~ or did I perhaps miss it. I saw it in their financial release today, but I would think a press release put out by Wave, specifically on this relationship would get them some good tread.
Maybe the deal was inked late today.
okay so as believed
Wave will likely have some contract announcements with gov in Q3, which is when almost all gov budgets are approved. So we won't hear abot these till EOY07
I believe SS Original CFBE Prediction for Q2
was based solely on orders in hand for TPM rollouts. Isn't that what was said, or am I wrong in what I heard a couple quarters ago?
zen88 - I too wish you well.
I wish everyone thought as you do(eom)
t123
zen88 - I do not normally post over here anymore, but saw your post and found it to be really something that could get to the heart of the issue (for many), and perhaps get cleared up once and for all.
You said: "that the naysayers don't have an 'awk' or 'cm' or Weby, to point to as a person that seems to have put a complete argument together as to why Wave WON'T succeed"
First - I think we could all debate the difference between true naysayers, and those who simply are frustrated. I would agree that there are true naysayers, but not everyone who complains about Troux is a naysayer ~ except perhaps in the eyes of some. For example: I'm pretty certain that many on this board believe that I am either a naysayer, or someone on the verge of a nervous breakdown if Wave doesn't begin making me money immediately. Neiter of which are true.
However, you might agree that, on this board, anyone who has lost patience, and says so with any regularity seems to be "sometimes unfairly" labeled as a naysayer ~ so over time, it becomes harder to tell the difference.
Many, including myself, still do believe that Wave will succeed, just as much as the rest of you. This may be hard for some on this baord to believe, or understand. Although I have sold some Wave (and bought) over the years, I have never divorced myself from having a significant position in Wave, simply because I still consider it the best long-term investment that I could have.
That being said, how could someone in my position ever want to make such an argument? I can honestly say that it is quite likely that I believe that Wave will succeed (on some level) just as much as you do. You don't have to agree or disagree, because I'm not asking you to. However, you might consider it a possibility. IF you did, then your labeling of naysayers would probably be cut by around 90% over those you may believe are currently.
The misconception that exists on this board is, that somehow you've convinced yourself that believing in Wave's success equates to demonstrated faith via positive thoughts and words about Wave. Others believe this to be what it is ~ an investment. As an investment, it shouldn't matter how I feel day-to-day, only how Wave performs as a stock.
Admittedly, Wave has performed badly as a stock for several years, yet it has also made some very good progress getting its vision adopted, and pushed by some very large companies. Admittedly, we have heard from many on this board that success and wealth was just around the corner (year-in and year-out) yet no one is chided for this behavior ~ because its positive in thought, and words.
I am not trying to win an argument here. I am merely pointing out that this board has created naysayers of some longs who still hold significant positions in Wave. In my case, I am somewhat conflicted, in that I believe that Wave can still succeed on a tremendous scale ~ but could just as possibly be following a path that perhaps waits too long to make money for itself, and its shareholders. We simply do not know this answer. But in the end, you will never hear someone like me taking up the argument that Wave will not succeed. There is simply no reason for me to do so, because I do not believe they won't, nor do I want them to fail.
I posted ~ not to argue whether you're a better long than I am, or your conviction is stronger than mine is. You can win that if you'd like. I posted merely to point out that the pool of naysayers is not as large as you and others often make it out to be. If it is convenient for you to hold onto this belief, so be it. But just because some may label someone else a naysayer doesn't make it so.
I still believe this community of posters on IHub would be better off if it embraced all WAVX longs, even if they did not hold true to the "positive in thought and words" at all costs mantra. But that's not my call to make.
Tampa123
bye all
Snackman - You're out of line.
Now these people (who simply questions things, or have an opinion that differs from yours) are child and/or wife abusers simply because they express themselves in a manner you don't agree with?
How'd you make that leap?
No need for this to continue. Have a nice evening.
Snackman - I wasn't talking to you. But you are entitled to your opinion. As am I.
I believe it is negative name calling. Did Vader call you or Scorpio a name. NO!
He simply posted an opinion about his feelings about Wave, and its lack of progress. If someone calls you a cheerleader, then they go beyond posting their opinions about Wave, and are now directing their comments straight at you. By my definition, that's name calling.
You call it whatever you want.
Yes - please hang in there Scorpio. But please stop with the name calling
scorpio - yes you do. But what gives you the right to label it whining?
That is what I take issue with.
What should we call those who consistently post that success is just around the corner? Liars? Or do they simply live on a longer block than many of us do?
I feel that calling someone a whiner is name-calling at its worst. And it is an elitist who feels they have the right to judge others by resorting to name-calling. Doing so is simply an attempt to suggest that their opinion is not welcome or appreciated, and I am one who clearly does welcome it on occcasion. It is healthy, and proper on occasion.
Stop the name calling and all will be fine. If you have issue with their opinion, then state your opinion in disagreement without name-calling. It shows you respect nothing but your own opinion, and those who agree with that opinion.
Very shallow and tiresome at this point.
Perhaps you should sell your position and get out while you're still proud of yourself.
T123