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Thanks. Interesting. Just thought it was so strange to be sending my money to JPM when it is JPM who should be sending money to us!
Talk about irony ...
Another lurking long here. Talk about an ironic situation ...
Going to wire funds to my ThinkOrSwim (bought out by TD Ameritrade) account by Friday to pick up some more P shares before the objection filing deadline, and guess which bank I have to send the wire to -- drumroll, please ....
JP Morgan Chase!! Oh, crap!
Too weird!
Chessman
Thank you, Royal.
Have a nice weekend.
Anyone here think that ...
there is any probability (of course, there is always a possibility), that a settlement might be reached this holiday weekend? Do you think that if the Hedgies and SG reach an agreement, they would wait until just before the first deposition? Sincerely trying to figure out if I should go all in fully before the weekend, and I value the intuition of the WAMUers who have been here longer than I have.
Kindly,
Chessman
That is ...
TFF! Good reply, RM!
Very informative. Many thanks!
Out of all the Lehman stocks ...
Which one is the best to invest in right now?
Many thanks for your thoughtful opinions.
Stay with it Diamond.
Nursejeff, take your meds and do some DD.
Hey, Doc,
I am going to see it tomorrow. Big showing in the city I live in here in Oregon. I am certain I will be one of those who can relate to it greater than many there, since I am fully invested in WAMU and have been following this saga for a long time.
Time for me to write an article for the main local paper. Chase took over several of the WAMU branches here. Makes me sick every time I drive past those Chase signs.
Chessman
I agree.
Less than 50% for prefs is an insult. All preferred shares should be paid 100% and commons should receive at least $4.00 per share.
Go WAMU!
That made me chuckle. Definitely a keeper! Thanks!
JPM earns $4B for the Quarter!
Just saw this on the Y board. How disconcerting it is, despite some of the positives about Judge Walrath, to recall her statement about the danger to JPM if those crooks were to relinquish the several billion in cash that Equity is owed. What a crock! It is just so frustrating to think about all the decisions "Sponge Walrath" could have made to get this settled equitably much sooner than later.
From the Y:
"Where did all that talk about them needing our $4B in deposits because, if they didn't get it, they'd be on the brink of folding? My God, who does one believe nowadays?
Funny (actually, it's not.), but if they just gave one quarter's revenue to the commons, they might be able to wrap up this WaMu thing in a week.
That $4B they earned in the last quarter was earned on $26B in revenue! Mind you, $26B over just three months! How much of the revenue and earnings were a result of having WaMu fully integrated (Dimon's words in his interview with Maria Bartolona) with JPM's operations?
Hope Susman and the EC took note of their latest earnings report (I don't doubt for a minute that they did.)
JPM has the money to pay us. It's just a matter of how much of it Susman and the EC will be able to extract. Jaime Dimon has a rep as a tough cookie when it comes to purchases and negotiations.
Let's hope Dimon's desire to be released from claims by equity is enough of a motivator for him to write us a check."
Respectfully ...
That scenario is indeed possible, but based on Judge Mary's eagerness to get this settled, I highly doubt it will take that long. She wants this over soon and will probably make some rulings that will accelerate a deal. Just MHO.
Happy New Year!
A toast will be made in Las Vegas ...
to REAL if his prediction comes true. I will laugh out of pure astonishment!
Best to you, REAL.
No problem. Thank you (and all the others) for the DD.
Just monitoring as many WAMU boards as I wait for Judge Walrath to make her decisions.
Happy Holidays!
Interesting post on Y ...
and I quote:
"NOLs, EC Knows It Fully Well
There is something people on this board largely ignored or paid no attention to. There is a little “secret” I was hesitate to tell before. When I wrote the post “Trial!!!” (11/30) in which the first half of the post was based on Susman October billing statement, I left out one little intriguing item from the billing on purpose. I noticed people who read the billing made no mention of that “item” at all, which made me quite perplexed at the time.
To call it a “little secret” is a stretch. It’s in the open and on the record. On Susman October billing statement, there is a line item dated on October 20th, recording Mr. Seth Ard had a 90 minutes conversation with A. Sole regarding “marketing reorganized company” (SS Oct. Billing Statement, pdf. p. 25). Above the line item, there is another line item “reviewing latest plan and settlement”. It’s clear the “latest plan” was referred to POR v.6; and since the “settlement” can mean many things and we got burnt by speculating on its meaning so many times before, we can toss it aside in this discussion. However, “marketing reorganized company”, what’s that about? If, per the GSA/POR, all equities are supposed to be cancelled and will have no role in the reorganized WMI, so why equity attorneys took hours to even talk about “marketing” the reorganized company among themselves? Besides, EC legal counsel is not the debtors’ marketing consultant after all.
The reason that I didn’t raise the issue earlier was I didn’t want to get people hyped up unnecessarily and for the wrong reasons (regarding our prospects in WMRRC) but only have our hope crashed if things do not turn out our way later. More importantly, I needed to see further evidence to clarify or re-enforce my thinking. Of course, I could be totally wrong in my reading so I remained salient on the information. Even now, I still urge caution against reading too much into the information other than a routine event of discussing the debtors’ marketing plan among our lawyers in order to better understand the value of reorganized company. In a fuller context we are now aware of, it’s most likely that (Ard-Sole) discussion was about the likelihood of “marketing (or perhaps selling) reorganized company” (no matter who owns it) for valuation purpose, and its potential implication to the overall case.
No matter what, I think EC has laid its eyes on reorganized WMI long ago, and knows the inner workings of NOL tax attributes and their potential values all along. Both PJS and EC Chairman Mr. Willingham are forensic accountants. They had cooperated in Mirant and other bankruptcy cases in the past. They understand, in my view, the most valuable asset of reorganized WMI will be its tax attributes that can yield a potentially astonishing amount of future tax benefits. There is no way for professionals like PJS, Willingham, and EC legal experts to overlook the potential tax benefits of NOL carry forwards. I think they knew this issue fully well even before debtors’ motion to abandon and Tricadia motions.
At the December hearing, EC counsel laid a trap for the debtors’ financial experts to admit in open court that (1) NOL owned by the reorganized WMI is limited ($100M) assuming the stock loss would be declared on December 24, 2010; (2) NOL owned by the reorganized WMI will be sky-rocked to an astonishing figure of $5.5B (unlimited NOL) if the stock loss is declared in early 2011; (3) the debtors specifically instructed its expert not to analyze this unlimited NOL in his valuation of reorganized WMI, a sure sign of “bad faith” on the part of debtors to cheat the equity out of the asset distribution process ( EC Supplemental Objection Motion, pdf. p.6). I didn’t have the benefit of listening in to the hearing live, so I don’t have a good grasp of some of the subtleties at the hearing. However, after going through EC supplemental objection motion, especially exhibits of open exchanges between EC attorneys and debtors’ financial consultants, it is clear to me the EC counsel trapped the debtors’ experts with full knowledge about WMI’s NOL tax attributes, their nature and applicability, potential added value to the Estate, and their implication. (Interestingly, with no small coincidence, the EC attorney who did the trick [on Mr. Zelin from Blackstone for his admission] is also the same person [Mr. Seth Ard] who held discussion on “marketing” WMRRC about one and half month ago as shown in Oct. billing). I recall someone (frozenpond & others) reported that Justin asked EC to be involved in (or in charge of?) reorganized WMI at the hearing. I also noticed in EC closing argument, it listed WMRRC NOL $5.5B prominently as part of potential assets (EC Closing Argument, slide 26, also slide 20). These actions and statements are the signs I have been waiting to see to re-enforced my conviction that EC has been on top of NOL issue, and believe me, the issue is far greater than WMRRC itself. Every involved party knows it.
Now, goes to EC supplemental objection motion. The timing is good. EC waited patiently until just a few days away from December 24 to file the motion to allow the adversaries limited time to react. It may be just coincident, but surely a safer and wiser play to show some of the cards right after the judge said she won’t issue an opinion on GSA and the Plan until one month into the new year, by which time, NOL alone, hopefully, could play (perhaps) a game-changing role in re-drawing the asset picture in a very interesting way. The Judge understands EC’s game plan, and maybe even annoyed a little by its tactics (she is probably even more tired of GSA parties’ tricks and blatant manipulations). So the rapid denial (to the supplemental objection motion) was in order (The best explanation of judge’s denial I’ve read is Catz’ connecting dots theory). Nonetheless, everything about NOL carry forward is now on the record, displayed at the hearing, and argued in closing arguments. By the beginning of the new year, it will become the reality (fingers crossed). Her Honor knows it fully well.
Did I say NOL could be one of those breakthrough issues in this deadlock before? Sure (“Debtors’ Weak Spots”). Fingers crossed."
Thanks, BW, for your response.
I've been hanging in there for a while, and have suffered through the dips. As with most, I just want this over and to pay off. I think most of those investors who have stuck this out deserve to be paid. This was really the biggest bank robbery in U.S. history, and it has been quite a revelation to find out all the details about the collusion and corruption behind it all.
What I have a hard time comprehending is why JPM and the FDIC don't realize that if they simply pay equity enough to cover the preferred shares and a reasonable amount for commons, that they could get their releases and it will all be over and done with and most likely swept under the carpet and out of public view. Just stupidity and greed on the part of the creditors/debtors! Doesn't make sense at all. I guess it is turning out the best for the lawyers, who are raking in the huge fees. What a shame.
Best wishes to all,
chessman
Is it necessary ...
for the judge to wait until January 6 to issue a ruling on the POR? Does it make more sense for her to wait until January 6 or later?
Thank you and holiday wishes to all,
chessman
No problem. Let's stick together. This has come too far. Best wishes for all. Go WAMU!
WTF you talking about and why did you ask about it if you are an oilman? Ilenes did a great job and countered Hosen and "drank his milkshake." Nuff said.
Did you ever see "There Will Be Blood" with Daniel Day Lewis? It is a phrase of power. Check out the movie.
Ilenes drank Rosenenfraud's milkshake!
Many, many thanks!
Chessman
December 7, 2010 ...
The day Ilenes dropped the bomb on Rosenfraud.
Sweet!
Question for DIMEQ investors ...
I am invested in the WAMU equities, and I just became familiar with DIMEQ.
What is the expected value these shares/warrants will be worth if paid? I am not really clear on this from the Ibox. Just looking for an answer as to what many of you are expecting to receive. Thank you.
Chessman
Excellent post! Bravo!
Chessman
Bid Rigging: Hope for a Great Recovery for Commons
Just saw this on the Y board. Interesting.
12-Nov-10 12:50 am
Bid Rigging: Hope for a Great Recovery for Commons
Susman, Nelson, and Sargent should quickly pursue the following legal theory, if they have not already started, as it can lead to a good recovery for preferred and common shareholders:
Examiner Hochberg's final report improperly dismisses the antitrust bid rigging claim against FDIC and JPM, stating that for bid rigging to work, there should be collusion (an agreement) among all bidders to let one bidder win. The reason is that if even one bidder is not part of the agreement, he can outbid the intended winner, thereby wrecking the plan.
Examiner's Report, p. 247:
"There has been speculation, however, that the lack of bidding interest from parties other than JPMC demonstrates the existence of a broader conspiracy not to purchase WMI. In light of this speculation, the Examiner investigated whether other possible bidders for WMI also may have conspired with JPMC. Indeed, as a matter of alleging a plausible bid-rigging scheme under the antitrust laws, a conspiracy to suppress the bidding on WMI might only be successful if all of the potential bidders reached a common agreement, not just some smaller group."
The usual presence of a conspiracy among all bidders in a bid-rigging scheme is unnecessary in this case.
All that's needed to show that JPM won FDIC's auction of WMB through illegal bid rigging is for all other bidders to have less information available than JPM did regarding WMB's assets and/or liabilities.
The Examiner's report states that other banks weren't interested in a whole bank purchase from FDIC because they were uncertain about JPM's liabilities and mortgage assets. This is the key to the bid rigging claim.
Susman should depose all the other involved banks' executives (CEOs, CFOs) to see what they knew at least about (a) the identification of all WMB assets and liabilities, and (b) the value of those assets and liabilities, and (c) the risk of each class of WMB mortgages.
JPM presumably had good information about (a), (b), and (c) following its intensive due diligence of WMB in preparation for its $8/share offer to WMI. Did JPM or FDIC give all of this information to all other bidding banks? If not, the bidding was unfair and can represent an antitrust violation.
Under Section 4 of the Clayton Act, JPM could be liable for treble damages if it participated in this plan. FDIC will resist the antitrust claim under sovereign immunity and FIRREA. Sovereign immunity by a federal agency can be waived under the Federal Tort Claims Act for tortious acts, like antitrust. Furthermore, FDIC officials cannot avoid criminal prosecution for antitrust violations if they acted outside the scope of their duties, although most federal prosecutors may be reluctant to indict them.
Susman needs to raise this issue by November 16, when answers to JPM's motion for summary judgment are due. He can't wait for trial. A document or witness suggesting that an information differential existed between JPM and other bidding banks would easily defeat the MSJ and could prompt a significant settlement payout to equity.
Note: The TD offer of $30B for WMB's East coast assets is a nonstarter for the bid rigging claim, as TD offered to buy assets only, no liabilities. So it is a waste of time pursuing that TD offer as evidence of anything. Susman need to ask TD's CEO, and all other bidding bank's executives, about specifically what they knew about the identity and value of all WMB assets and liabilities, including tiered risk of assets. The Examiner completely dropped the ball on this.
The End of the Beginning: Government as Deal Machine
From The Administrative Law Review
Regulation by Deal: The Government’s Response to the
Financial Crisis
Steven M. Davidoff
David Zaring
Reprinted from
Administrative Law Review
Volume 61, Number 3, Summer 2009
Cite as
61 ADMIN. L. REV. 463 (2009).
1. The Bankruptcy of Washington Mutual
The Washington Mutual (WaMu) and Wachovia transactions occurred while the EESA was being debated and eventually passed. Both of these institutions and a number of other large consumer banks were, at the time, suffering from slow-motion bank runs. The government’s rescue efforts of WaMu and Wachovia aptly illustrated the government’s dealmaking skills.
In WaMu’s demise, the FDIC was the primary governmental actor. Pursuant to its authorization under the Federal Deposit Insurance Act, on September 25, the FDIC seized the bank depositary assets of WaMu and sold them to JPMorgan for a $1.9 billion cash payment.
The FDIC announced this transaction without informing the WaMu management. In fact, the CEO of WaMu was on a plane at the time, unaware that his company’s depositary assets had been seized. It was subsequently disclosed that the FDIC had decided to engineer this transaction over a week before.
The FDIC had prearranged JPMorgan’s purchase; JPMorgan had even been able to confidentially undertake a $10 billion capital raising before and in connection with this purchase. The day after the FDIC’s seizure and sale, the remaining independent holding company of WaMu filed for bankruptcy.
TPG, which had invested $1.35 billion in WaMu in April 2008, lost its entire investment, one of the largest and quickest losses by a private equity firm ever.
Great thread at Yahoo. FDIC and JPM are going to be toast. They better settle, and quickly!
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_W/threadview?m=te&bn=86316&tid=593626&mid=593626&tof=3&frt=2#593626
Thank you.
Hang in there everyone! This is one hell of a ride!
GO WAMU!
Question to P holders ...
I own a few hundred Ps, but bought them after 10/18. Should I still call my broker about voting? Thanks!
Chessman
German doc links working now
Checking them out now ...
The Germans posted these docs. Are they important?
Now on a U.S. server:
http://www.grassrootsusa.com/WAMU/JPM-Cover-Sheet-Letter-10242008.pdf
http://www.grassrootsusa.com/WAMU/JPM-Chase-N-a-Bid-10242008.pdf
http://www.grassrootsusa.com/WAMU/Citigroup-10242008.pdf
The Citigroup doc had six pages, and there was a lot of redaction on that sixth page.
Thanks! Do you need a copy of the last form?
Dear UNITED,
I downloaded those docs and can post them on my server here in the USA, if needed.
What I don't get is how did JPM bid on WAMU with "No Bid" written on the papers? Blows me away! What does this all mean? Citigroup wanted to bid on WAMU, also, but there is a lot of redaction in that letter of theirs. What is all this?
Chessman
What is Sussman's phone number!?
I want to call his office and find out if he is still on this case! Anyone thought about an inquiry to his office?
WAMU investors -- watch out for the self-inflicted bear raid!
Something doesn't look right (like Jamie Dimon's ugly mug) or smell right (like Rosenturd).
I just experienced a bear raid in AVNR last Friday, and my heart about came out of my chest as the pps dropped from just over $3 to around $1.30 (but went up to almost $6 in AH). This was an orchestrated bear raid, which happens a lot before pharma approvals. Manipulation at its finest. In the case of WAMU, the hedgies, MMs, large investors, and who knows who, are going to let us create our own bear raid on Tuesday. They don't have to manipulate it.
I have no doubt that information always leaks, and WAMU is no exception. Someone knows what exactly is going to go down, and they are not worried. The price action was stable, and a lot of Ps were bought toward the end of Monday's session. The 30 billion comment weeks ago was a giveaway. Sussman has had to keep a tight lid on everything, and I am sure he would like to tell us what is happening and give us that glimmer of hope we all need. But, now, its steel balls time, and in order to be rewarded, we cannot panic. Panic selling tomorrow will be a self-orchestrated bear raid and someone is going to scoop up a lot of common shares at rock-bottom prices and probably receive $1-$2 for each share in the end.
I believe that another poster is correct -- hedgies and large investors are holding onto the Ps and Ks because they are in the money. If they weren't going to be in the money, I think Prefs would have bled today. Again -- there is always information leaked, and that goes for any level of government or Wall Street. Something just doesn't add up.
There have been times when I felt it was right to get out of a stock, and later I was proven correct. Sometimes we call it a hunch, sometimes intuition. I sold my commons not too long ago to buy Ps because I felt I wanted more security about a payoff in the end. Today, despite the report, I don't feel panicky, but, rather, I feel sort of at peace. There are just too many things pointing to something for Equity. Could be that Dimon and the FDIC want to look like nice guys, so they didn't worry about the Examiner's report because they knew the Examiner wouldn't find much. Instead, they probably planned to throw Equity a bone, like, "Well, the Examiner's report shows nothing really bad, but, hey, we want to show you how nice JPM is to the citizens and how supportive the FDIC is, too." They have probably collaborated to negotiate with Sussman some sort of deal that will be done around election time or in the coming weeks. Maybe they struck a deal a few months ago -- work with us to allow us to look good and not panic the country, and then we can agree to settle.
Something just doesn't feel right. It's rigged, and I think the big boys are waiting for the panic selling on Tuesday. They don't have to plan a thing -- they will just watch everyone dump commons and scoop them up for pennies.
It's a tough time, and the market is manipulated and corrupt, but this time we just might win.
Chessman
I agree. I remember when G**O was announced. I couldn't believe it! It shot up in price past CDIV, and I felt a bit betrayed, because I was holding steadfast to CDIV in anticipation of the squeeze (which Jerry felt would happen in 60-90 days). In hindsight, upon announcement, I should have sold all my CDIV, bought G**O and played the spike, then sold and bought back into CDIV. Some investors, no doubt, did this and profited. Some of us, though, simply held tight to our CDIV shares.
Logically speaking ... it didn't make sense at the time, and still doesn't. Why not focus everyone's funds on just one FLD, force a squeeze, then move on to the next one? Four or five plays is just too much money to spread out among investors.
Of course, now, E**H is the star, and some of the investors in other FLDs, including those in CDIV, are wishing they had dumped their shares a while back and bought in to E**H for the divy and pending squeeze.
It's history now. CDIV was the big play, but not now, or, rather, not yet. It's going to have to wait until its sister FLD does its thing and creates enough profit to cause more money to pour in.
Yes, some of the core holders are going to cheerlead and say that everything is cool and it's no problem, and I admire them all for their devotion and persistence, but, hey, everyone puts their pants on the same way -- one leg at a time -- and I am just as smart and observant as the next guy or gal and can see logic defied as clearly as anyone else. Call me Spock, but it just wasn't logical.
So, now, we move on and just hang in there. Our tits are in a ringer now, and we have to just wait it out. Once E**H pulls through, then money will flow back into CDIV. But, please, please, please, Jerry -- no more new picks! It doesn't make any sense until the existing ones do what everyone expects them to do. It's just logical.
Peace and best wishes for all,
Chessman
Oh, pleeeezzz... there is no doubt that EIGH will be paying .10 divy ....zzzz
And for any and all, the correct link to the DIVI info iszzzzz:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/8000inc-eighpk-cash-dividend-update-2010-09-28
and the NSSzzzz stuff is real and will result in a MOASS...oh yeszzzzzz
So, hang in there until October 15 ....the Divi might even be increased to more than .10 ...weeeeeeee
This is all so grEIGHt! zzzzzzzz
Cheszzzman