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Right. WahuQ is preferred stock to the Trust, but is junior bondhoder (subordinated debentures)to Washington
Mutual, Inc. in the event of B.K liquidation of debtor, WahuQ will become one of creditors in creditor committee to claim for its liquidation value of $50.
Other two preferred stocks and common shares are issued by WMI as investors of Washington Mutual, Inc. will be in the shareholders committee to share the rest of assets left, but preferred stocks has priority for the rest,and common stock get the last if lucky enough.
So,see the sequences of getting paid.
In fact, all these stocks; WahuQ,WampQ,wamKQ and WamuQ shall stay in one board. because they all come from the same family of WaMu,under the same roof,but with different names. they are brothers and sisters ride in the same boat. right?
Of course, most stocks publicly traded are common stocks,Wahuq and wampq are different stocks that originally created not for trading purpose,it is for long investment and making dividend incomes or liquidation value if company in B.K.
No one will pity on what you loss on stock investment unless you are the victim. especially, letters to judges, they make orders and decisions without any emotion. So, It is better to not only express your emtions,but also explain and complaint that you are victim of FDIC,JPM,OTS's improper conducts.
That's why Wahuq and wampq are scarely stocks, what if everyone buying to keep these shares for liquidation value, then who else can get a change to get in this hot pots. So don't spread this secret stock too far before we get a chance to jump in.
yeah, because there were not many holders wanted to sell on bids. So everytime, I have to bid on ask to get filled quickly.
I hope we can keep Wahuq at $1-$1.75 level till the end of this month, we need to load some more. It now at bid $1.05, ask $1.10.
Level II of WahuQ: bid $0.98, ask $1.10. huge volume of bid lines up compares to ask.
I would like to buy some more as well,my money got tighted up,won't be availabe for next 10 days. let's keep it quiet. I don't think any of Wamu stocks will rise much as long as its assets and debt are still a mystery. Good time to accumulate and keep sharing your knowledges and opinions here.
Other two preferred stocks were issued by WMI. WahuQ was issued by Wamu's capital trust 2001, and it is a creditor to WaMu. therefor its preferred stock is a bond (subordinated noteholder),will be in the wamu creditors committee to claim for liquidation value on B.K procedures. Most people out there got confused ,once they realized, this stock will hard to get. hold tight.
agree, if it was a sell, 1M shares could drop this stop to $0.10.
There wasn't a bid for $0.98 and no way there was enough 1M share for $0.98 bid. I think it could be MM collected all trades and posted out at same time
The 1M share went thru could be MM collected all trades togther and posted in one time. 1M is more than 10% ,it is too huge to believe. in fact, if someone sold 1M, there was no bid for 1M shares available. if it was sell order,1M could drop this stock price to $0.10.
The 1M shares was out of bid and ask. It could be delt in other source. bid was 0.95, ask 1.09
Some boat, fasten your belt! These two stocks only good for betting on its potential huge liquidation value. If you traded in and out, you'll getting harder and paying more to get back in. That's why I believe most holders are long, unlike common shares for trading profit and too risky for long holding.
I forgot to switch board, sorry. WamPQ holding well, I belive most people holding wampQ and wahuq are for long, so the shares will getting tighter and tighter to get.
There was 100K share went through 15 mins ago, That is hugh amount of money poored in with this only 8.7M share totoal. This stock shall getting tighter to get.
congrat! Play with B.K stock is risky, we have to play with safety belt on. WamPQ for beting, WaHuQ for safety backup. Good luck.
Both WahuQ and wamPQ are not the good stock for trading in daily base. They are the family members of WaMu.We all in the same boat. Manys here are confused about these different stocks of WaMu. I am not pumping for WahuQ, and no way to dump it in short term. I am holding all three of stocks, just showing their strength and weakness,and discuss how to reduce risk of investing in WaMu securities. All my posts here are my DD result and my thoughts reasonable with facts. no pump and hype. just for our Wamu family.
Someone just bought 100K shares of WaHUQ at $1.00. total share only 8.7M
I have done some DD on WaMu. although WaMu has some positive assets might attract us,but it is B.K Stock after all, It has to follow B.K procedures to revaluate it with creditors and shareholders. It is still a risky stock to hold. to reduce this risk is to hold some of WahUQ as a creditor to WaMu, in case of wiping off common stock and,or preferred stocks. you loss on others,but you gain on holding WahuQ. In the other word, If you got paid for common stock you bought,there is no way the WahuQ and Preferred stocks not to be paid in full liquidation value. WaHuQ is for safty protection.
But these stocks are not for trading in short term period,it'd rather to be put in the storage room for 1-2yrs to be revealed for its value. Common stock is for trading purpose only.
hey, don't be too greedy, don't pour all your money here. Nothing is guaranteed in this stock market. think twice before investing any securities.
I have done some DD on WaMu. although WaMu shows some positive assets to us,but it's B.K stock after all,and it has to follow B.K procedure to revaluate its stock with creditors and shareholders. It's still a risky stock to hold, smart way to reduce this risk is to hold not only its common stock. If you held some WahuQ stock as creditor to WaMu, in case of company wiping off all common stock and,or preferred stock, you still have gain on holding WahuQ. in other word, if common stock got paid,there is no way WahuQ and preferred stocks not to be pay in full liquidation value. That's why i will hold some WahuQ and some of preferred as well for safty protection.
But these stocks are not recommond to trade in short term period, put in the storage room,and wait 1-2 yrs for its revaluated value, common stock is for trading purpose.
I suggest for safety reason,not only buying common stock and other two preferred stocks of WMI, also buy some WhuQ issued from its capital trust 2001,Wahuq shareholders are subordinated debentures noteholders, in this B.K process, not only to be investors of WMI,but to be creditor will be much safer to hold for potential huge gain. WaHUQ's liquidation Value must be paid in full before other preferred stocks and common stock. in SEC filed stated WAHUQ as"
a preferred security issued by Washington Mutual Capital Trust 2001 (the "Trust"), having a stated liquidation amount of $50, representing an undivided beneficial interest in the assets of the Trust, which assets consist solely of subordinated debentures issued by Washington Mutual, Inc. each of which has a principal amount at maturity of $50, a stated maturity of July 1, 2041 and, at any time, an accreted value as described in this prospectus; and
•
a warrant to purchase at any time prior to the close of business on May 3, 2041, 1.2081 shares of common stock of Washington Mutual. The exercise price of each warrant on the initial date of issuance was $32.33 and will accrete on a daily basis as described in this prospectus to $50 on the expiration date. "
To better understand WaHUQ,read the SEC filed link:
http://www.secinfo.com/dRqWm.4fT99.htm#1stPage
WaHUQ: face value $50 with warrant, 8.7M shares total.
All just my opinion based on facts provided by SEC filing. You shall do your own DD before invest in any securities.
I suggest for safety reason,not only buying other two preferred stocks of WMI, also buy some WhuQ issued from its capital trust 2001,Wahuq shareholders are subordinated debentures noteholders, in this B.K process, not only to be investors of WMI,but to be creditor will be much safer to hold for potential huge gain. in SEC filed stated WAHUQ as"
a preferred security issued by Washington Mutual Capital Trust 2001 (the "Trust"), having a stated liquidation amount of $50, representing an undivided beneficial interest in the assets of the Trust, which assets consist solely of subordinated debentures issued by Washington Mutual, Inc. each of which has a principal amount at maturity of $50, a stated maturity of July 1, 2041 and, at any time, an accreted value as described in this prospectus; and
•
a warrant to purchase at any time prior to the close of business on May 3, 2041, 1.2081 shares of common stock of Washington Mutual. The exercise price of each warrant on the initial date of issuance was $32.33 and will accrete on a daily basis as described in this prospectus to $50 on the expiration date. "
correct, but the difference is Wampq only get paid from Wahuq's leftover. If WahuQ not paid for full of $50/share, WamPQ will get nothing. Of course, depend on how much left, Wampq may get paid some and share with other preferred stocks.
I've done DD and discovered that There is only around $8B to be paid before WAHUQ's turn,other preferred stocks have to wait after $9.15B distributed,then can share with rest of preferred stocks value about $6.5B to be shared.
Wahuq is trust preferred stock, not directly WMI's preferred stock, But trust is WMI's trust, it is created for collecting capital funds for tax benifit purpose( capital collected as debt). the article below may help you understand better about "trust preferred stock" that different than other two preferred stocks. not many peopel out there know this difference. Once they know, they will jump in this safer one, to become a creditor of WMI, not just investor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust-preferred_security
sorry, you'are right. $3B for Wampq.
WMI borrowed $1.0B from the company's trust, To collect the $1B that company want to borrow, the trust issued and sold 20M preferred stock $50/share for those amount and lent to WMI. WMI has to pay back these $1B as debt to trust,then trust return to shareholders. Now, you see why WahuQ is preferred stock,but treat as creditor?
That's right, it clearly said:
"assets consist solely of subordinated debentures issued by Washington Mutual, Inc.".
That mean WahuQ is subordinated debt to WMI, and it will be paid off as a debt to shareholders before other preferred stocks.
How do you interpret this news:
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews+articleid_2653820.html
In connection with the Exchange Event, WMI will effect an exchange (Conditional Exchange) of the Securities into depositary shares representing a like amount of preferred stock in WMI, as contemplated by the applicable documents governing the securities.
These preferred stocks I calculated the liqidation value will be more than $3B. Plus three publicly traded preferred stock liqidation as: Wahuq: 23M shares $1.15B; WampQ: 3M shares $1B; WamkQ:20M shares $500M. total three public preferred stock liquidation $2.65B with other preferred stock $3B. I think liquidation is around $5.65B value. Am I right?
Preffered stock sure will be safer than common at this B.K circumstance,but will be long hold for liqidation value. Do you know how much total liqidation value of preferred stocks? It seems to me the company issued more than just these three publicly traded preferred stocks.
I'd prefer WahuQ, it is trust preferred (junior unsecured creditor).Wahuq has to paid $50/share before passing asset to other preferred stocks. What do you think.
I found you here, finally, this board is growing. 2 wks ago,it was just a few posts here. didn't you pump them here? cheerleader.
Manys don't understand what is WahuQ. WahuQ is one class higher than the other two preferreds. Holders of this would be considered unsecured creditors.
WahuQ has to be paid $50/share before give any penny to other preferred stocks. It is most likely will get paid full, that is why its price so higher compare to others.
It seems to me that WaMu has many preferred stocks issued,not only publicly traded one.Can someone find out the total shares and liquidation value of preferred stock WMI still having? It is vital important to see how much potential value will be left for common shareholdrs.
Those preffered stocks is for long holding for liquidation value, The common stock is for trading.
Not now, baby. You just turn things upside down. WMI is in B.K processing. If company buy back preferred and common stock, what do you think the creditors? Isn't that mean you paying shareholders first,put creditors last? YOu don't understand what is chapter 11 real for ? WMI shall and has to buy back(payoff) creditors debts first.
In fact WahuQ is trust preferred stock. shareholders of WahuQ is junior unsecured creditors of WMI. they got paid before preferred stock and after creditors.
$1.9B will not return to WMI is belong to FDIC to settle claims from unsecured noteholders of WMB. There are around $14B unsecured noteholders from WMB. We don't know yet if these noteholders will claim these debt from WMI. still many uncertainties ahead.
No, It is purely about "NOL' tax credit protection. WMI is in B.K no need to worry about hostile takeover,the company power goes to the restructure office and of course the B.K judge. I don't know if you read the motion WMI filed and the court ordered on the motion. What part of document says preventing "hostile takeover"? I quote a part of the order as below, hope you can see it clearly:
It is FOUND that:
2. Unrestricted trading of certain equity interests in WMI during the pendency of the bankruptcy case could severely limit the Debtors’s ability to utilize the Tax Attributes for purposes of title 26 of the United States Code(the”Tax Code”), as set forth in the Motion:
3. The notification procedures and restrictions on transfers of WMI’s common stock, certain classes of preferred stock and options to acquire such stock are necessary and proper to preserve the Tax Attributes and are therefore in the best interests of the Debtors, their estates, and their creditors; and
The court has ordered and restricted more than 4.5% ownership change(means you can not sell or buy more than 4.5% shares in total after B.K),Now can "buyout"advocators explain how could "buyout" will consistent with this court order? the motion WaMu filed about restrition on ownership change to prevent lossing NOL benifit. IRS knows that many others companies will take the advantage of this NOL benifit to acquires ownership on them for a cheap price and apply it to their companies to escape paying taxes.
To prevent this abuse of benifit, IRS section 328 limitation set and restricts ownership change( benifit only for original company), you can change,but you will loss the benifit.
Read this article below will help you better understanding "NOL"
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/thompsnt/htm/d48/ftp/nol_stuff.ppt#5
Let me calculate it for your: "NOL"+ $4.4 Billion BUCKS + HUGE ASSETS = MAJOR BUCKS for WAMU shareHOLDERS"
NOL=$20B
cash$4.4
Huge Assets: $32
Totoal: $56.4B
outstanding shares: 1.7B
result: $33.1/share.
ViVA, let's rush buy then.