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What if one of them said it hours after the event? Would that make it seem more credible?
More like Seymour or family member.
I'll check histories and cache soon.
You are continually telling us that you know that this was initially started as a good and honest venture.
Knowing how the 2 founders met has some impact on one's ability to asses how accurate your assertion is.
Why do you say that this was started with the best of intentions if you weren't there and don't know the founders?
That is NOT how they met.
Trendliner, you want to chime in as you seem to know?
I've already said it a few dozens times.
Strangers on a plane.
Glad to hear you’re a believer.
When someone says something, what is in someone's mind becomes audible...no need to read it.
Using the base rate failure as the explanation for why they failed is ignorant as it assumes that they did everything they could, in good faith and with best efforts, and it just didn't work.
Do you believe that's what transpired here?
And yes, I know there are likely some in the 92% that did not do everything they could, in good faith and with best efforts, so the failure rate is likely less then 92% for those actually TRYING to succeed. Which I argue was not the case with NNVC.
Why "kinda doubt" when you can read and know for sure.
I know facts are not usually part of the discussion here, or at least not usually welcome.
Some of us have been saying it since 2010.
It's all here if you click on a name and look at their post history.
Have a fantastic evening though.
What trend liner is ignoring is that Seymour had done this before. When he met Anil, he knew the playbook for how to pull the scheme off. Anil was already believing his own hype that he had discovered something. And Seymour knew how to exploit it.
Don't be fooled by the rumpled, scattered, grandfatherly exterior.
How funny would it be if they announced they've completed their pre-INDA meeting with the FDA and have amazing Tox results?
Bwahahahahahahaha!
This can only be considered a failure if you believe that the goal was to bring a drug to market.
That was NEVER the goal.
If you understand and KNOW why this scheme was created, then you would understand and know it has been more successful than Seymour and Anil (and Leo) imagined at inception.
That's not hindsight bias.
This is hindsight bias:
“The agreement between NNVC and TheraCour was signed by Dr. Diwan on behalf of TheraCour and Mr. Ehrlich on behalf of NNVC. This, despite the fact that both men were shareholders of TheraCour, and because they both owned more of TheraCour than they did of NNVC, stood to reap disproportionate gains from any dollars diverted to TheraCour from NNVC. One can only wonder just how hard Mr. Ehrlich negotiated on behalf of NNVC in that original deal.”
Bingo.
Great idea. Now that NNVC has revolutionized the treatment of all major viruses, they should move onto bacteria...oh, wait, they actually haven't proven anything. They can't make it in replicable batches (at ANY size), they haven't selected a lead for their current treatment of the month, they are now COMPLETELY controlled by a single individual (who is also the recipient of literally all accounts payable plus 30%), and they will be out of money by year's end. Or they will resort to incredible dilution just to stay afloat and virtually whatever funding they get will go to Diwan.
Bacteria-cide here we come!
Great idea!
I hear Dr. B is furious!
Actually from an apt in FL...seriously.
Seaside 88
750 Ocean Royale Way
Juno Beach, FL 33408
United States
Someone said that Seaside 88 was a bunch of dumb sleazy crooks.
You said: Do you know any of them personally, if not, how can you claim they are dumb sleazy crooks.
I said: I don't know Bernie Madoff personally, but I think he's a sleazy crook, but i wouldn't say he's dumb.
Notice, no mention of NNVC.
I then said: Much as I've given credit to Seymour and Diwan (for also not being dumb) As I often say "These guys are good" They're just not good at what investors expect from a CEO and President. Which I thought was an obvious way of saying they're good at bilking money from investors but not good at developing drugs and bringing them to market.
Still no correlation or mention of Bernie in the same sentence or context. Though...they were both liars, deceivers and swindlers who lied and stole from their family and friends (at least Seymour did, Anil, probably not, as Meeta must have been in on it pretty early). Or as you would say, just good guys who were forced to be scumbags because of their circumstances. Maybe they just needed more hugs and they would have been honest.
Bwahahahahahaha!
And again, your protesting about Madoff is eerily similar to the way Seymour reacted when we were discussing Madoff. Should have taken that as a sign.
Speak of what you know and not of what you guess or STFU!
You mean like saying that this didn't start out as a scam but somewhere it went wrong and Seymour had to lie?
You have not substantiated that and yet you ask us to believe it.
Here's one: 2 strangers meet on a plane, they hatch a scheme and over the course of 13+ years, make 10's of millions of dollars without ever delivering on a single stated goal or objective as it relates to their "treatment."
Believe that!
I didn't know Bernie Madoff personally but I would say he was a pretty sleazy crook, though I don't necessarily thing he was dumb. Sometimes, one's actions and deeds are clear and true indicators of one's true nature.
For example, if someone were to write in all caps for their first line, that would indicate a need for attention.
Much as I've given credit to Seymour and Diwan.
I have often said "These guys are good." They're just not good at what investors expected from a CEO and President.
I detect a unique note of anger in your posts Trendy. Did something happen to burst your bubble about the good Dr's true nature? Or are you actually someone more "involved" than you should be?
Oops!
Of course it has a point. The original poster said:
Seriously, my chocolate lab could've achieved the same, if not better, progression than Seymour.
So i asked a few questions to help clarify if this were infact true. If his chocolate lab does know seaside 88, and Dr. Eva Harris then maybe he has a valid point.
Along the way, i realized how hysterical it all sounded..the historical (and hysterical) perspective makes it clear that this scheme was, is and has always been just that, a scheme.
And buddy, spare me the "I was there from the beginning, this company was started with good intentions by good people, with pure hearts and unicorns for pets, but along the way they realized something was wrong and they lost their way and couldn't find their rainbows, so they were forced to lie and deceive family, friends and investors."
You know not of what you speak.
But the truth is coming soon.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
But does your chocolate lab know Seaside 88?
Bwahahahahahaha!
New CEO joining any minute!
Bwa, bwa, bwahahahahahahahaha!
Dr. Eva Harris is the ticket!
ROTFLMAO!
"We've completed most of the steps necessary for scale up"
Someone call 9-1-1!
Unfortunately it’s more sad than funny.
Are you asserting that because there are reputable companies and scientific bodies working in the same arena as NNVC, that NNVC must therefore be reputable?
Note that the other organizations have actual results and most have published their results in peer reviewable publications.
NNVC has steadfastly refused to do this. There is one simple reason.
And it aint because it takes too much time or money. Nothing would have impacted this company's value as significantly as publishing their results. I stated that years ago and stand by it today. Investors and BP don't give a rat's ass about claims made by an angle head hired by and indian con artist.
There is and never was any there there. Those claiming this started as a legit operation do not know. Stranger met on a plane and that was where it started. If Seymour is innocent, he MAY have been tricked at inception into believing Diwan's claims, but as Seymour pulled this exact scam before with Stat-Sure diagnostics, I don't see how anyone can claim him not being complicit.
Over to you trendsetter. Tell us again how this was a great and honest endeavor, but went sour after some misfortunate turn of events.
All moot anyway.
Theracour gets reembursed for all direct and indirect expenses PLUS 30%. How much of that $90M has gone directly into Anil’s pocket...certainly at least 30%, but more likely significantly more.
The details of the agreements with all the outside labs they hire to keep up the ruse, are not public, though they should be.
All mute anyway. Clearly the end is near.
Are we getting Tox this year?
Bwahahahahahaha!
Hey Seymour, your friends and family are all very proud! Well done.
Bingo!
Actually it’s in wind down.
Can anyone say how these results are different than any others they’ve announced in the past (for candidates that have not moved past this initial phase)?
They are being criticized because these tests and results are just to fluff the SP. they are not required or admissible for the inda...yes they CAN submit them, but they have zero impact on the FDA Tox guidance or requirements.
All moot anyway. Rights will be reverting back to Theracour before year’s end. In the extremely unlikely event that they can ever produce replocatable batches to scale, and get it through TOX, the nnvc shareholders can take comfort knowing they funded all the research and work though they will not see any upside from their investment and patience.
This is now funnneling everything directly to the Diwans.
I can’t think of 2 more deserving people.
Not unimpressive news?
The double negative means you think this IS impressive news?
You are wrong as this has been announced on all previous candidates and has little impact on the company’s ability to advance a product to market (these results are not admissible for the inda not have they been able to manufacture at a REPLICATABLE scale that is required).
This is another attempt to use the same old tactics that have kept them keeping suckers in while they squeeze the last remaining $$$. Now ALL of it goes to the Diwan’s.
This guy is good.
as much time as it took him to slowly and methodically dump his shares...all day, everyday until they're gone.
If there were any realistic chance that there would be a positive development or news in the next 13 months, does anyone think Seymour would have left?
Of course he wouldn’t have. He knows what’s ahead and it ain’t a beach party in Hawaii.
If you read the information released from the 3rd parties, it in no way validates the platform or the efficacy, so the vendors are not damaging their reputation. They take in work for hire with anyone willing to pay and that is common practice and not damaging to a reputation.
As far as Dr. B, i am reminded of all the smart people who invested with Madoff. Do you think they knew they were investing in a scam?
You believe this is not a scam, so let me ask you what you believe the company would be doing differently if this WERE a scam? What would be indicators to you that there was something not right?
The corp structure, the nepotism, the past financing, the lack of transparency in terms of progress, results, relationships..., the missing of filing deadlines or filing all together, the fact that there hasn't been anything moved into Tox, legitimate Tox, at all...?
I haven't; seen any verifiable results either.
I ask because you included it in your post regarding the validity of the reports on the the market size modeling, but IMHO, that ignores the more glaring issue. Isn't any discussion about market opportunity moot without legitimate results?
Have you seen any verifiable data to support this claim?
Did you know that a wife can not be required to testify against her husband in federal cases?
Just sayin'.
You quote Dr. Myers and yes, you quoted her and her company’s estimation of market size and then ask:
Is BioEnemble in on the scam too?
You are very clearly and very specifically saying trying to show this can’t be a scam because of the bio ensemble and dr. Myers’ quote.
What else could you be trying to say by asking if bioensemble is in on the scam too?
You do realize that your posts don’t disappear like Snapchat, so we can all see what you wrote, don’t you?
You claimed Seymour was only guilty of failure not fraud, and then you say he knows how to take suckers (investors) for a ride.
That implies knowingly and willingly misleading/lying.
How can you claim that is not fraud?
What has changed your mind?
Aren’t you the one who claimed he started out as a straight arrow and then went crooked?
And said it was investors’ fault for believing in Gene?
And you asked him several times over the years to resign?
But now he’s a great guy?
Is it possible they had the meetings with the FDA to maintain the appearance of progress and keep the gravbtrain going? Even if it damaged their reputation with the FDA, if this were all a scam, they wouldn’t care. That would also provide some protection from claims from shareholders as the company could show “good faith” efforts to follow proper process and procedures.
Not saying any of this happened, but since you are laying out possible scenarios, is this a possibility?
Now how could I know that? Please reread what I wrote, I said I DO make everything up.
Diwan now 100% in control of NNVC and Theracour.
Just as planned, I’m guessing.