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I don't take issue with what's gone on in Judge Walrath's court. But there's a DC court involved with the lawsuit. If people are waiting on the lawsuit for the restructuring to happen, they're nuts.
Granted there may never even be a discovery involved in the suit, but regardless, if it does go that road I believe there will be a plan for restructuring out and about before a "lengthy" trial comes to fruition.
There's nothing Judge Walrath can do to speed along a trial in DC court.
That was my point. And yeah, I do believe that gives the FDIC plenty of wiggle room between now and when they might actually have to pony up some cash.
I don't think it will go that way and I hope like heck it won't... but I don't put anything past these shady folks.
"Judge Walrath will run this entire show based on law not on the whinning of the FDIC and JPM."
There are a lot of people that want to get paid... I'm not talking shareholders. WMI was demanding that JPM reveal the assets because they didn't want to delay the restructuring plans.
I don't believe they're going to put them off for 2, 3, or 4 more months.
"Weil will simply ask for and receive an extension."
So you think they'll hold off on a restructuring plan until the lawsuit/settlement is completed? If the FDIC prologues this mess, I would find that hard to believe.
But that's just me.
I laugh everytime I read that WMI held all of the common stock in WMB because I just know in my clogged artery infested heart of hearts that that's going to bite JPM on the backside... in a HARD way.
Open a shares/times or whatever it is window. You missed em anyway. Its nonsense.
It's crap... a few 5000 share trades. Just the mms being dipsticks.
Smidgen of premarket action this morning... nifty.
Since a delay was already denied, it would seem that WMI allowed the delay to take place... no?
When i said in and out, I meant shuffling in and out of commons. I've grown my portfolio by swinging back and forth between commons and preferred shares, though I did pull a chunk out to play sirius for a bit and I put it all back into commons, which I've since switched into preferreds.
There's no way I'll pull anything out for anything other than more shuffling from this point forward. My loved ones would kill me if after all the mad rambling I've done about WaMu, something happened and I was in it to win it.
Relax Mehedi.
Best case scenario is that JPM and the FDIC are fighting behind closed doors, each trying to get the other to pony up. The FDIC may be buying time for the bill to pass or just extending the time period to work out a settlement plan with JPM invovled in the negotiations. We have no idea.
The only thing that bugs me is how can WMI restructure without knowing what JPM owns? The only thing that makes me nervous is if they are allowed to restructure with a plan that wiped shares out if they go buy the current a/l list which Walrath should be well aware of, is incomplete at best.
I don't believe Judge Walrath is incompetent so I don't think she'll allow it to happen, but she's human... so there's always that small chance of something going awry.
For the time being I'm out of the commons because I feel a little safer in the preferreds, which is probably illogical... but it helps me sleep better at night.
Regardless, I think a deal is pending and it's just a matter of the FDIC and JPM deciding how much each party is going to pony up. The FDIC could just tell JPM we made a mistake and didn't understand the structuring, so you have to give stuff back or pay for it and they'll be on the hook for anything over 500 million and JPM can argue that the FDIC misrepresented what they bought and to some degree they've already postured into said position.
All we can do is sit back and bite the bullet while things play out behind the scenes.
So pull out any money you put in the pool that you can't afford to lose and let the rest ride.
Keep up on what's going on and don't be afraid to move around between common and preferreds according to how things are playing out. I've been able to swing back and forth and up my holdings substantially by playing the swings... but at the same time there have been very few nights that have passed where I've had a diminished holding for fear of missing out on a deal.
Be careful and use your brains and your guts. We've seen the mms shake the crap out of these stocks. Expect major shaking from the mainstream press before all is said and done.
Ironically... With everyone waiting for the FDIC (credit card) bill to pass through Congress, all you need to know about the FDIC's ability to settle comes directly from Bair about 42k times in the videos where she talks about WaMu's seizure.
"We're backed by the full faith of the US Government." If WaMu's seizure wound up costing them any money, the government would have had to pony up the money to cover it.
Guess what... even if the bill never passes, the FDIC and the government are still on the hook. It would be up to them to figure out a way to explain it to the public, but this will still wind up costing much more than a net "zero" transaction as it was sold to the public.
The FDIC's charter states they are to minimize "hits" to the fund, so they can settle or they can go to court and wind up owing hundreds of billions in a long protracted lawsuit.
Either way... "The Chickens has come home to roost."
"I think they will ask for extension too but I am not sure if FDIC will settle soon."
Yeah I reposted what I read it said as opposed to what it actually says.
I believe it's talking about the shares sold on 9/26.
Its says offering not swap ??? I'm also of the opinion that they are referring to the 8 Billion from Sept 08.
OK not to get excited, but it wasn't up there as of February 4th when the page was posted as the following.
You can check it by pasting the page into this site.
http://www.archive.org/index.php
Financial Institutions
S&C continues to have the preeminent financial institutions practice in the United States. Our Financial Institutions Group brings together the Firm’s premier banking practice, its long-standing representation of some of the largest U.S. and international insurance companies, its leading position among legal advisors to the investment management industry, its extensive experience in the securities industry and its strength in derivatives markets and electronic trading systems to provide unparalleled advice to established and emerging financial services companies.
In addition to being a leading advisor in the global convergence of financial services companies, S&C is a recognized leader in financial institutions M&A, compliance and regulatory matters and securities transactions. Our M&A transactions in this sector are significant not only because of their size, but also because of their substantial complexity involving acquisition-related restructurings that have significantly reshaped the landscape of the financial services industry. Advising banking, broker-dealer and insurance clients on compliance and regulatory matters that shape their respective industries is an important dimension of our practice. S&C also acts in some of the most complex and challenging capital markets transactions involving a broad array of U.S. and non-U.S. financial institutions.
Our lawyers represent financial institutions in numerous confidential matters of great importance to them. Most recently, these matters have included representations in connection with issues arising from economic sanctions compliance, anti-money laundering requirements and reporting issues; the financing of companies engaged in internet gambling; and the U.N. Oil-for-Food Programme.
Banking
S&C is widely recognized as having the premier banking practice in the United States. The Firm represents major U.S. and non-U.S. banking clients in merger and acquisition, regulatory, corporate and capital markets matters and regularly interacts with state and federal banking regulatory agencies. For more on S&C’s banking practice, please see Banking.
Insurance
The Insurance Group’s regular clients include some of the largest U.S. and international insurance and reinsurance companies, for whom the Firm provides corporate, securities, M&A, tax, litigation, insurance regulatory, derivatives and other advice. For more on S&C’s insurance practice, please see Insurance.
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Since the enactment of the Investment Company Act of 1940, S&C has been one of the leading legal advisors to the investment management industry, and has advised numerous public and private companies and their advisors on issues under that Act. The Firm is also a leader in merger and acquisition transactions in the investment management industry. For more on S&C’s investment management practice, please see Investment Management.
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S&C’s Commodities, Futures and Derivatives Group practices extensively in all areas of the growing derivatives markets, including work on transactions, product development, regulatory advice, compliance and litigation. For more on S&C’s commodities practice, please see Commodities, Futures and Derivatives.
Although it says stock swap, I think they're referencing the stock they issued the morning of the 26th.
I wouldn't mind being wrong... but I don't think they'd accidentally post something like that and who knows how long that's even been up there. It could have been posted up there since September.
Is there a way to view what they had posted up there say.. 2 or 3 months ago?
J.P. Morgan Chase is paying $1.9 billion to the FDIC for the assets and the transaction closed immediately.
* In addition to the purchase J.P. Morgan is raising $8 billion through an offering of its common stock to the public.
http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/09/jpmorganwamu_conference_call_h.php
I'll drink to that. I'm thinking a little vintage 2009 Baja Blast from Taco Bell.
I really think this thing's going to escalate into insanity soon too. but as always, prepare for some of the issues on the table to be put off.
Some of these issues though... can't be and won't be delayed
any further.
I really hope the next couple of weeks are going to rock.
"$hit's gonna get crazy and ugly pretty soon unless certain parties come to an agreement"
Jackson...
Jamie D's tone yesterday said it all. People like to make it out like he's slick and adored. Most people hate him. his contemporaries hate him. He's a snippy little witch and for some reason... (I can't imagine why) he's got something up his tail pipe.
I wonder what he'd be like on the stand... I hope this is resolved before we get to that point. But I don't think the guy could take being belittled.
You know it... it happened a whole slew of times. It's really despicable.
F the FDIC...
We all know they can't cover the money in the banks.
Buy gold bricks, paint em brown... and put them around your garden.
You never know.
Also get a GREAT WALL or FLOOR SAFE and KEEP ALOT OF YOUR STUFF THERE.
Don't worry about me. Jackson's the man. I couldn't agree more.
"Was, just to let you know I'm the biggest ball buster at work, but win someone does an excellent job I have no problem telling them so. I've even kicked home owners out of their own house until I finished. Sorry I left you out. lol"
The only thing I could think of is it would end the lawsuit. JPM isn't going to be ablt to carry forward a suit against the FDIC for selling it's own assets to itself for too low a cost.
But, if JPM feels like they are in danger of losing a lot of the assets that helped bolster their #s, then they might step up.
I will tell you what though, if I was GS I'd have tried to get involved here. Get some opinions from a top notch legal team and see if it would be worth investing a fistful of cash now as a means of magically converting that over to a dump truck full of cash later.
My gut however tells me that WMI is banking on a settlement and they know something big that we don't. They take the money and exit bk, hopefully with no shenanigans we'll still be intact and we're in for the ride of our lives.
Amazingly, there are still a multitude of positive outcomes here. Like most of you I feel it's close. So lets buckle up, sit back, and hopefully... enjoy the scenery.
"The 4.2 B JPM annouced today could have something to do with WMI. Buy WMI and you buy the lawsuit. Now what good would it do for JPM to sue the FDIC over the takeover of WAMU .. ANy theories on this idea !!"
Very surely. Very angry. The He/She Bear must have made him sleep on the couch.
Is this their typical legalese? I'm assuming so.
"JPMorgan Chase does not undertake to update the forward-looking statements to reflect the impact of circumstances or events that may arise after the date of the forward-looking statements."
I don't have private messaging anymore... Fricken unemployment's barely paying my rent.
I walked out of the room for 5 minutes and missed everything I guess. Good thing I'm recording it.
I missed it. What did he say? You taling about this?
"Special FDIC assessment
If economy weakens further, additional reserving actions
may be required WaMu losses to approach 18-24% by end of 2009"
I'd like to slap these guys 3 Stooges style. They're too giddy... They're gonna frenzy and say something really whacked. I can feel it coming.
It's just like Christmas morning... I wonder if Bair is banging her head on a desk right about now.
Someone needs to work them into a frenzy. I dream of Dimon, foaming at the mouth, pride swelling to an ungodly proportion blurting out "Yeah, we stole the bank. It saved our company."
I'll be recording this. I hope they say something stupid like they did in the last couple. Splicing that stuff up for the flick was like a dream come true.
Well, sure... absolutely.
Though I did start the thread over there after reading through the doc and looking up the website(s).
But absolutely. I'd have posted a link to the thread if iHub wasn't so anal about such things.
Trust me. I'm not looking to steal credit from other people.
The last document Jackson posted made reference to wamuinc.net.
It is hosted by wowrack. An IP trace also reveals https://remote.wamuinc.net as the admin interface.
You might have to click that link in IE to get it to open.
New WMI Logo?
Anyone happen to know if this is a new or an old logo? I've never seen a WMI logo before so I have no idea.
http://wamuqd.com/wmi.jpg
Over and Out...
The cohesive integrity of the thread was lost in transmission. :O)
"I wasn't talking about bofan lol Just the Damn nugget we have that needs to find his own nuggets."
Oh... and thats not even considering they claimed they only had 2 days to figure things out when the JPM audio proves in their own words that this was just not the case.
There was no guesswork, just as they told their investors... This was one of the most thorough things they ever did.
That's if you disregard that Judge Walrath by court order demanded a list of what they bought, which JPM in turn ignored.
Weil and Walrath will have their say next and we'll go from there.
Regardless, JPM's answer answered nothing. I don't see how any self respecting Judge wouldn't be incensed by their contempt.
"Early in this fiasco, JPM lawyers said it would take 6 months to fiqure out what they were sold."
They declared they'd emerge from bk 3rd quarter when the FDIC had until June to deny their claim.
They don't need a settlement to reorganize, though one would effect the plan in a big way.
"The only way they could submit a reorganization plan on/before the re-org. date is if there was a settlement offered before the re-org. date or a settlement offered with the reorganization plan on that date."
I'll go with 4...
Fools Gold is just trying to throw enough $hit out there as he can in the hope that something will stick.
4.. He has no idea at all.
"Gold please answer 1,2,3
1..DAYS away
2..few weeks away
3 couple more months away
and HAPPY trails to you....and IMO "ALL WAMUERS WIN HERE" !!!"
My opinion is that you should do some DD just in case your humble opinion is nothing more than misleading nonsense.
Jack Pooper Mellencramp isn't 30 is he?
I was actually expecting Dimon to tell the world JPM stole WaMu and has decided to give it back along with billions of dollars and stock options for all WMI investors.
Very intelligent post there... In your opinion anyway.
"JPM to report earnings 4/16 expect the dimon to say that they made money again to the expense of wamu aquistion.
Hopefully something will happen sooner - all again are imo and pure DD."
As stated before...
Beware of Fools Gold.
"as stated before
James Peter Mcmahon needs to hit the age of 30."
You do your homework. I thought you were in DC and won't be posting anymore.
The reorganization plan will be revealed soon enough. Weil has already said JPM and the FDIC may be slowing things down for WMI.
Besides, you and Denke have all the answers. The 3 become 1 in like 2 days right?
What a clown. If you people are banking on gold nugget you'll all be duped into giving up hope and selling on one of his supposed dates/clues that never come to fruition.
The flies are listening. The flies are a figment of your dementia. Wake up people... This guy's got NO facts or he wouldn't be worried about "the deal" he knows oh so much about falling through.
Happy Valentines Day.
"was do yr homework if the deal/settlement falls apart and wmi comes out of bk... "
June 30th. What are you rambling about?