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So why doesn't the pps reflect this news assuming the 1.4BB will stay with the WaMu estate making A>L?...and putting pref's in the money at a minimum 15.5% face value?????
Just emailed the author. I also alerted to him that the examiner that was assigned yesterday will undoubtedly include that in his report and that JPM was disqualified as a TARP recipient to receive such credit.
Even if my facts are wrong, hopefully it spurs some interest in the media...
Also, if this is true, this just shows how crooked the deal was and how it was designed to screw over equity by ALL parties involved. Rosen for misrepresenting equity, JPM for intentionally taking money away from equity knowing they wouldn't accept the refunds, and of course the FDIC for not maximizing the value of the WaMu estate while in receivership.
The key part is the article said "this year." When did that happen? Yesterday? Or the week after the infamous global settlement?
If you don't know I'll email the article author...It's completely news to me and should cause the P's to go up at least $150/share and the K's go up $3.75/share tomorrow-- 1.4/9 =15.5% fv assuming the refund will revert back to the WaMu estate
Steve
Right, he'll do everything in his power to return money to equity if it's legally possible--my point is he won't be shady and turn the cheek on potential claims.
Thanks. My bad. 12 g's is nothing to this guy. Didn't the court say he'll have a budget of 30MM a month? Basically 1MM a day...He'll make a ridiculous amount of money being the examiner... but if he does his job most of us will be right there with him.
$300 shares = $1,200. He makes that much by lunch break every day- maybe w/this case he'll make that an hour. This guy doesn't have "the look" that Hammer wants- meaning he can't be bought off and has earned his stripes the honest way.
Kinda funny how our financial future depends on this guy. Either the majority of us on this board will walk away w/enough to retire or we'll be left with nothing. I have the feeling that he's going to do everything in his power to get us every last dime that is the rightful property of equity.
Good luck to all
EDIT: $12,000-forgot to carry the 0. Ok that's what this guy makes in 3 days...It's not that significant for someone that's a partner in a major firm. He probably forgot about the shares until he got the phone call.
My personal reasons for investing in WaMu: No way all these assets had an aggregate Book Value of 1.8BB according to the P&A agreement. The key is that the assets are purchased at Zero and not a negative number; meaning JPM buying 2 assets-1 worth (-)10MM and the other worth (+)10MM has to be purchased for 10MM and not Zero! Side note: I couldn't find the 1 yr price adjustment clause in this agreement.
3.2 Asset Purchase Price (pg. 9 of brief--pg. 13 of pdf file)
Any asset, asset of the Failed Bank subject to an option to purchase or other asset purchased for which no purchase price is specified on Schedule 3.2 or otherwise herein shall be purchased at its Book Value. Loans or other assets charged off the Accounting Records of the Failed Ban prior to the date of Bank Closing shall be purchased at a price of zero.
SCHEDULE 3.2 - Purchase Price of Assets
(a) cash and receivables from depository Book Value
institutions, including cash items in the
process of collection, plus
interest thereon:
(b) securities (exclusive of the capital stock of Market Value
Acquired Subsidiares), plus interest
thereon:
(c) federal funds sold and repurchase Book Value
agreements, if any, including interest
thereon:
(d) Loans: Book Value
(e) Other Real Estate: Book Value
(f) credit card business, if any, including all Book Value
outstanding extensions of credit:
(g) Safe Deposit Boxes and related business,
safekeeping business and trust business, if Book Value
any:
(h) Records and other documents: Book Value
(i) capital stock of any Acquired Subsidiares: Book Value
(j) amounts owed to the Failed Ban by any Book Value
Acquired Subsidiar:
(k) assets securing Deposits of public money, Book Value
to the extent not otherwise purchased
hereunder:
(1) Overdrafts of customers: Book Value
(m) rights, if any, with respect to Qualified Market Value
Financial Contracts.
(n) rights of the Failed Ban to provide Book Value
mortgage servicing for others and to have
mortgage servicing provided to the Failed
Ban by others and related contracts.
(0) Ban Premises: Book Value
(p) Furniture and Equipment: Book Value
(q) Fixtures: Book Value
A link from Sept 28, 2008 or from sept 28, 2009?
Thanks
the FDIC and JPM had a year to revise the purchase agreement of WAMU
Interesting. I haven't heard that before. Can you post a link to this agreement clause? That would definitely change my personal theory considering that just 6 months after the "take down" by the FDIC, JPM made 29BB off the WaMu portfolio according to their Q1 2009 reports.
Right, I read him talking about the MM's manipulation of "walking down the bid/ask but I think this would be more like a whistle blower case...fraudulent activities, collusion b/t firms at the expense of shareholders, etc.
Exactly, that's my point. Restitution is a b!tch. Us getting paid is all that matters and proves that WaMu was purchased below FMV or even liquidated value. Typically what happens in these cases is that the original people that got "screwed" won't see a dime b/c they already sold their shares.
Just point me to the page where the judge has commented on the idea that Dimon colluded w/Bair...
I saw those emails. It would be tough to really prove even though you're probably right. This is a classic case for the SEC. If the SEC can go after the "Fabulous Fabrice Tourre" at Goldman in an email to his girlfriend why not go after this case using the emails?
Maybe we should write up a legitimate memo to the SEC addressing these facts and have a bunch of shareholders sign it?
You are witnessing the milking of a lifetime. The economy is bad and Rosen will easily be able to retire once the case is over. As everyday goes by, Rosen is just adding to his personal golden parachute.
"I believe collusion can be determined, charged and ultimately proven"
Are these claims being litigated right now? If so I haven't heard a judge comment on these allegations.
Where's the FBI and SEC at in investigating these claims?
I'm not saying you're wrong or right, just that it's only a theory until these claims get litigated. You as a shareholder can bring a class action suit charging these allegations.
I feel that Susman will get all the facts on the table and if this is a legitimate claim Susman will undoubtedly litigate it.
"Bair not selling our assets for a proper value"
She screwed up but will never be convicted. It was an all out panic and no one submitted bids because of the rapidly deteriorating values of loans coupled with leverage.
I ask again--Is Warren Buffet a criminal for helping Wells Fargo strong arm Wachovia away from Citi?????????????????? Where's everyone's conspiracy theories that he's in bed with DC more than Dimon is?
If you feel he's criminal then you can personally press charges for fraud. Otherwise it's just a conspiracy theory that will never get proven in the court of law.
I was. But my point is we don't know and that's why we have a bada$$ attorney to help us get paid. I don't think Dimon and Bair are criminals b/c of this act. Bair completely freaked out and jumped the gun trying to blame it on the media (based on what she said in a Bloomberg video). Dimon was just being opportunistic and got the deal of the millennium.
Bottom line is I don't care-just want to be paid and all this will go away
Another thought: Maybe they (Dimon/Bair et al) do want to do the right thing...but only at a certain price. That's understandable--not wanting to over pay and look like he bent over. Maybe he knows he got a deal that was too good to be true but can't overpay so that he keeps his job and Bair maintains credibility throughout the banking community. My point is we don't know. I just want to be paid...
You forgot anyone that reports to a board of directors...If you're just venting I understand. If you honestly think that Dimon would make an offer before the examiner has submitted his evaluation you might need to take a step back and look at this from the average Joe's perspective. This is a capitalistic society where "Greed is good". I don't care about justice--I care about being paid. Plain and simple. Justice to shareholders is money.
Dimon was successful in his bid with the FDIC-FACT! Dimon being a criminal for colluding with the FDIC-Conspiracy!
Is Warren Buffet a criminal for helping Wells Fargo out bid Wachovia away from Citi after the media reported it was a done deal?
100% agree. The "one piece of WaMu" statement is what got me the most excited. I hate to mention the word "settlement" but it's not going to come until at least after the examiner's final report comes in. Negotiations may begin however, after the initial report comes in in September. JPM/FDIC know what the value is but they're going to wait to see if the examiner misses anything to save some money--Anyone would do the same.
Now, something I have been thinking about for a while is that Susman and Godfrey probably have a dozen or so summer interns working for them on this case (at least 3 or 4) that know some good info. Someone needs to go down to Houston and find these students...Is there even such thing as insider trading on a bankruptcy case? LOL You could probably get some names off Facebook. LOL
Exactly, I was wondering about the briefing whether it was a submitted brief or a reference to what he had stated in a judge's chambers meeting. I just assume that if there had been a brief submitted that posters would have been feeding off of it for days if not weeks, so it must have come from a private meeting.
So far everything has gone perfect for Susman and co. Sometimes that's bad but I don't see why Susman would have to toss out a 30BB figure in court out of desperation if they didn't have proof of their claim.
Josh, Thanks for the MP3 clip. The 30BB was definitely a reference to their minimum approx value of the estate--"the note holders asked how did we get this 30BB figure." Then Nelson cited to JPM making 29BB in profit in Q1 2009 "with respect to just one piece of WaMu's assets" in as a reason for their evaluation.
Nelson says "uhhh" way too much. He also said the evaluation is in the briefing--I'm assuming referring to a brief they submitted.
Mordicai,
What is typically the strategy and reason behind an attorney submitting a sealed document in the BK courts? Does it happen a lot in big corporate BK cases or is it pretty rare?
Also, do you agree that it could be Solomon's evaluation since the EC paid for their services and their numbers aren't privy to the court?
Definitely makes sense and here's my theory why: For a federal judge to completely turn on her own words--the infamous "this case has been investigated to death" reason for denying the examiner, it would make sense that some very strong evidence was presented to her. She didn't deny the examiner on an impulse but after hundreds of hours of time spent on this case.
I don't think evidence of a hundred million dollar discrepancy would have been enough for her to change her mind. It would have to have been enough to justify the continuance of equity's claims which we know need about another 9BB until commons see anything.
Also, if the EC privately hired Soloman for a fair evaluation, the EC wouldn't have to submit that info for public record. Now if it was released to the public then I think it would be easier for the media to cause public outrage and pressure JPM to pay more for WaMu similar to the Bear Stearns settlement. AIMO
Steve
What was the purpose of hiring Solomon? More leverage for negotiations or just to see if it was worth it to pursue their claim? I remember people on this board kept talking about how the pref's would pop on Solomon releasing their numbers but the numbers never came out.
Who hired Solomon to evaluate WaMu? The UST, Bondholders?
It would be like Obama stating BP is going to pump all the oil back into the well.
The more I think about the situation coupled with all of the unprecedented moves by the Obama Administration, I really wouldn't be surprised if the FDIC forced JPM to pay a higher price tag for WaMu on the basis that JPM bought WaMu too cheap based on gains of the WaMu portfolio.
If the government can force all big banks to take TARP money, then regulate their employee's compensation, the government could easily justify telling JPM that they have to pay more for WaMu if they want the FDIC to guarantee their accounts (among other threats).
It actually wouldn't be bad policy b/c the FDIC can easily justify the seizure being in the height of the crisis but there was a lack of bidders due to increasing credit spreads, fear, and an extreme amount of uncertainty. AIMO
Steve
How much do you think it would cost to unwind the deal and who would pay for it?
Perhaps the MM's are just holding this at the 50 day MA then over time, as the 200 day gradually decreases, keep this range bound b/t the 50 and the 200 until concrete news comes out?
It would make sense because everything is controlled by machines and complex math formulas.
The accum/dist looks like the MM's are trying to contain dynamite in a bottle.
Can you expound on this pic that Lebosco you sent out this morning? Where did it come from? How legit these numbers are? etc...
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=52446863
Lebosco was busy when it might have been explained in court and said you might have more insight.
By the way, thanks for going to all the hearings. I'd be willing to bet my holdings that you're the best looking person on this board. LOL
Steve
Lebosco,
Can you expound on this pic that you sent to ETO-Castle this morning? Where did it come from? How legit these numbers are? etc...
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=52446863
Thanks for going to the hearing today. I'm just as grateful for posters like you as I am jealous- as I wish I could have been there.
Steve
I completely disagree that retail is tapped out in WaMu shares. I believe that common holders will continue to convert over to P's and K's like Zilla's friend and that as news of the EC's success spreads throughout the press more newcomers will dip their tow.
I now have no problem recommending the pref's to my friends who don't have much money to invest and for my parents IRA plans.
Big volume today. I can't imagine who's selling. The float had to have tightened up today with today's volume. There is no reason for this to not be back at $100/share by next week. I think the problem is lack of knowledge of the pref's. Everyone sees the U board lighting up today but the price action won't attract any new money.Excellent day today!!! AIMO
Steve
ETO-Castle said it came from Lebosco
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=52446863
I guess we just need a concrete statement like the fact we're going to get the NOL's. Seems like there's a chance that an examiner could eventually not find anything but I would find that hard to believe.
Remember, it was the news of the NOL's that drove this stock up in December. I guess a pic from the courthouse isn't good enough...
A couple days ago I asked on the U board twice if people had mortgaged their house or car in order to buy more WaMu shares but it kept getting erased b/c I think they thought I was bashing. LOL. All these attorneys are one step a head of us and I bet Susman knew exactly what was going to happen today before the hearing even started. I really feel like he was correct in telling Ilene that there is money for the commons--because the pref's are getting paid in full.
According to the chart you're genius. We just need more info about it. Who made it and why? My big question is if this has been submitted to the court.
Just like this morning we heard all parties argue about the scope of the examiner before it was even appointed which implied that it will be appointed...the big question is if this chart is the implied recovery before an examiner was even appointed...
I think commons actually started going down to the .19cent level from .21 that the chart pointed to after it started surfacing. Others on the U board mentioned that as a possibility.
AIMO
Cayman values are 4.5BB and P's and K's are another 4BB right?
Link to the pic from Eto-castle
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=52453186
This is what ETO-Castle said to me, then I asked him who the presenter was and I haven't gotten an answer.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=52453761