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The fact that they required JPMC to double the amount of search terms from the ones currently used shows me that these teams are very current and very bright as to understanding motives from the opposition.
I would HIGHLY recommend that every shareholder read the filing. It's a quick and easy read and extremely educational on exactly what the examiner and his team are searching for.
Thanks for your hard work. To save your time, I wouldn't bother transcribing the shareholder that objected b/c his objection was worthless and embarrassing and hard to understand from his accident
I was getting the hearing but am now just getting silence did we lose our feed?
Yep everyone suddenly lost their feed. Someone said on the U board that Rosen tripped on the wire but it has been unconfirmed. LOL.
Well last post of the day. Didn't get to hear much that mattered. Maybe the archive will have the whole thing? or is the audio archive a recording of the call and not of the actual court session? GLTA
Steve
Edit: And the beauty of google voice is I'm just gonna keep the line open and not hang up (and listen to the crappy static at low volume) in case we get audio back in the next half hour.
fourth edit: you only need to hit the pound number after typing in the access key because the prompts asks you to. I hope you get it to work. Let me know if you do.
Triple edit: I'm on wi-fi using my road runner.
Edit: I didn't dial a "1" for long distance;
double edit: LOL try calling your cell phone first to see if it's working. You don't need to do anything fancy like typing in your own number. It's just like a phone except your using an arrow to punch in numbers. Also don't forget to hit the pound number after punching in the access key.
did the little box pop up so that you can press the numbers to make a call? If so, call your cell phone first, then try calling in. I actually had to try twice before it let me in?
sorry, I'm running low on free posts
JH hasn't mentioned anything about 32BB. Just gave a synopsis of his filing and what his role is and time lines of his production
He might not have "the look" but he has the voice and confidence of a winner which is all that matters
Wow, good thing he was allowed to speak??????????????????????
WTF was that??????????????
I only heard 5.2BB plus interest...
She's one of BR's chronies, he introduced her earlier
yep, when u call others, the phone number pops up on caller ID's as a CA area code.
On the left side in your chat list it says "call phone" double click that and you can use a phone line for free thanks to google
For those that don't want to put 100 plus minutes on their cell phone in case we have to wait for a while (Ilenes said the 2:00pm hearing started 2:45) I would recommend dialing in through google voice if you have gmail.
GLTA
They were in there like swimwear with the help of BR
I can see a couple execs being egotists but that's why they pay big money for the attorneys/cpa's/corporate consultants etc. They know what they're doing and I feel that they know the outcome and exactly how it will play out.
IMO, they already know every move of the chess game before a piece was moved, they just were hoping that Susman was never asked to play...
Bingo!!! That's what I was inferring. Either way we make out like a bandit
Ya but if JH says that as a matter of law the refunds belong to the Holding Co then these will take off. Yes there will still be a 3.9BB overhang of the TPS w/respect to the value of the prefs, but if we're in the money either way then these things will take off. IMO, the outcome of the TPS is much more relevant to the valuation of commons than to prefs.
IMO
Steve
Here's the link:
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229100907000000000002.pdf
I'm loving what I'm reading so far. Cl. 34 is also awesome to read. One really has to wonder why JPM just doesn't settle this ASAP????? Maybe they're waiting for the examiner's report to constitute those numbers as the first offer? Maybe group think? Maybe they don't care b/c in the mean time the profits they are making off the WaMu portfolio are building and will be used to finance a future settlement? You have to figure that there are dozens of attorneys, tax attorneys, CPA's, and other corporate execs at JPM that have a plan on how JPM will eventually move past all this??
AIMO
Steve
A good question to find the answer to would be how much this was valued at on the MOR. I strongly feel that a lot of these subs are being valued at Book Value (which could be as low as 0) and not FMV.
If you're investment thesis is that commons will get paid based on a settlement then you won't have to do anything but wait if you want the full price. Look at companies that have been recently taken out. They're not trading at their takeout price b/c of tvm. Also, 24-100 LMAO
Are you the type of person that mocks people before they go buy a lottery ticket? Or perhaps the type that pickets in front of churches b/c none of them have seen God?
Agreed. Even rodeo clowns get gored sometimes if they're not careful and I think he sees the bull charging at him while his back is to the wall.
That would be sweet if you wore a BR for president t-shirt w/a distorted pic of him on it at the hearing. Then maybe a slogan like "Screwing over the public since 2008" on the back with the "w" being the WaMu font.
BTW-What did you say at the last hearing?
"Your Honor, my team and I have yet to find precedence where the FDIC should be allotted a portion of the tax refunds with respect to the terms stated in the global settlement" --JH Hopefully on 9/7
Pref's would explode!!
IMO
Steve
Rosen is a filthy spineless POS that is going to one day get his just dues
At the same time, you've got to give him credit for so far getting away with his magic shows in front of THJMW. It's actually unbelievable and frankly astonishing how good he must be to somehow not be sitting next to Maddoff in prison right now. I'm not saying it's respectable or even going to last but sometimes you have to look at your enemies and give them credit where it's due.
Lets be honest, if I was a serial criminal/murderer I would want Rosen on my side. He reminds me of those soulless attorneys on The Rainmaker especially when Matt Damon asks the opposing counsel at a meeting when he lost his dignity and soul.
Steve
Agreed, the fact that THJMW changed her mind by appointing an examiner shows me that she's hoping to rip out BR's throat but has to wait for the legal facts and conclusions to come in before she can do so.
You kidding me? The only reason why there hasn't been a quicker resolution, and therefore, many shady deals, is because of the lack of public outrage. No way JPM would have ponied up 5x more than their initial offer for BSC if it weren't for the public outrage. Even if we don't send in facts just our opinions, the judge will still take all of this into consideration.
Think about the media attention we would get if the courthouse was flooded with thousands of letters stating that BR, A&M, JPM, JD, et al are all corrupt. Someone will take notice.
can you post the link?
I don't see how that could be possible that the pref's could absorb the assets of the TPS...
Would it be best if we all individually filed a complaint or would it be better if you had your lawyer write up a form letter that we all print off a copy of, sign it, and fax/mail it in? I'd be more than willing to help pay attorney fees if necessary--and I think others would to.
Thanks
Steve
This is why I don't understand why those who believe in 15+ for commons don't also own a ton of pref's.
Think about it. What if the examiner says the estate is probably worth around 10-15BB on 9/7 but he needs more time. The pref's would probably go to face and the commons would probably go to $1-3 with a slight premium to actual value on the basis that the estate is worth even more and that a settlement will especially elevate commons.
So, if I was sold on commons, I would roll my pref's into more commons to make another 5-15 fold investment (or even more) with my profit from pref's.
There's too many scenarios to think about but even if pref's go to $500-800 and commons are supposed to get wiped out--then it would be an even better opportunity to roll into commons on the basis that they would get something.
Does that make sense? Granted I only own pref's but that's exactly what I plan on doing--take half my profits and roll them into commons. I think it will continue to be one class at a time. Look at bonds, then the H's...I think it will follow the same pattern.
Thoughts?...
AIMO
Steve
Assuming you owned most of those before 3/12-I don't even want to know what you're account looked like after...
Yes, I think it would even be necessary to be in more than one casino. Hell, maybe even Macau-screw Vegas. LOL
So what you're saying is that you're the one that will pay for everyone's hotel rooms in Vegas? GLTY & GLTA
Steve
Don't forget the 3.9BB in Caymans that MAY need to get paid first before commons...
It would be a huge victory for commons if the Caymans are ruled to be under JPM and not the WaMu estate.
AIMO
Steve
Can you provide a link that backs up your claim?
Equity Committee can only give suggestions, but each shareholder is still entitled to vote on the POR where BK code 1126(c) sets the approval requirements. The EC is mainly for negotiations and bringing forth documents/data to the judge in order to request for additional "weapons" such as an examiner if foul play by creditors is reasonably suspected.
If the debtor and creditors cannot be dissuaded from attempting to confirm a plan highly unfavorable to equity, the Equity Committee may have no choice but to urge shareholders to vote against it, and to object to confirmation of the plan.
http://wamuequitygroup.org/equity-committee.html
Sorry, if you already got it figured out. I hit my limit early today and haven't quite caught up to all the posts.
AIMO and Good luck
Steve
Just google 1126(c) in the BK code.
Voodoo, thought you would like to read this
The more prevalent view is that when equity is marginally in the money, shareholders need an equity committee. While there may be substantial debt in a given Chapter 11 case, expert financial testimony can show equity is substantially “in the money”, even if only at $1-$2 per share. For example, in the recent Trump Hotel and Casinos case, there was approximately $2bn
in debt, and approximately 30 million shares of common stock equivalents. The equity committee increased the recovery for shareholders from virtually nothing to tens of millions of dollars ($2-$3 per share). This return turned out to be inconsequential to bondholders, who received most of the new equity. One may ask what motivation do directors have to fight for
such “scraps” in the absence of official representation of equity holders?
http://www.bayardlaw.com/pdfs/Articles/equity-committees-representation.pdf
I really hope all shareholders comprehend the importance/significance of having an EC and an examiner. AIMO
Steve
Let me clarify one thing. Only the classes that vote are the ones that are impaired meaning that the are due to receive less than 100cents on the dollar. If a class is due to get full value then they don't get a vote b/c it's presumed they'll vote yes. Likewise, if a class is due to get nothing, then they also don't get a vote b/c they're vote is presumed to reject the plan.
So if the examiner says the assets, tax refunds, etc are worth 20BB then bonds, notes, H's, and pref's are all going to be seeing 100 cents on the dollar so they won't get a vote b/c they'll obviously vote yes. In this situation, only the commons would get a vote. AIMO
Steve
100% sure brotha. Look up that BK code I just cited you. It's a very common subject that's taught in all BK courses in law school. But, think about it, if the commons want a voice b/c they're a completely impaired class then they'll have to buy up pref's at a presumably much higher price.
Think of it like when a company announces they're going to try and buy out another company like BHP trying to buy Potash. Potash shareholders still have to approve the plan. In this case, the pps is higher than BHP's bid b/c Potash thinks they're worth more. So if it's announced that P's will see $500 subject to approval, the price could go to $700 on the basis that the pref's will reject it b/c they want more.
Edit: BK 1126(c). Just google it.
AIMO
Steve
the judge can not object
I disagree. This would give way too much power to the EC and strip the judge w/o his/her power to properly oversee the BK process
every single P's owner must accept it
Not 100% true. Of those that vote, over 50% of people have to approve it as long as they hold 66% of the value in question. BK 1126(c).
So actually, after the plan is proposed, commons could come in and buy pref's to get a chance to vote on it.
I personally believe that commons will see money b/c the judge has to do a test in ch. 11 called the Best-Interest-Test in order to allow the reorg to take place instead of a full liquidation. The BIT states that creditors/equity have to get as much under the ch. 11 as they would have gotten if the firm would have fully liquidated in a ch. 7.
Basically, if the examiner states that WaMu is worth 30BB then that's how much has to be disbursed. Now the battle is always over the definition of fair market value b/c different courts hold that fmv means different things. AIMO
Steve