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SHORTCHANGE, You surprise me how you are letting this get to you. At lot more than us bought his properties and continue to finance his lifestyle.
And a lot more will continue to do so, and not for just Lumb.
But, this is life, the masses are always paying for the lifestyles of the few.
Problem is, people do not use, and expand, their reasoning beyongd the narrow. Like viewing a painting, they stand too close to the picture and therefore do not see the whole in perspective.
We get so easly hung up on one small part, that we miss all the others that would give us a better insight in to how our world is run.
No one wonders how Moscow, the capital of a nation that was under communism so long, and where people, even in the professions, like doctors, worked for a pittance so long, has more young' billionaires than any other world city.
How did they do it? By taking advantage of a system which has the philosophy of ' the world looks up to wealth and power, and looks down on poverty and the meek and mild. They say that it is a sheeps destiny to be fleeced.
When you make your pile and are wandering the beaches of the world, no one gives a damn how you made it - and you can always fake your story.
If you are going to get hung up on this one guy, and your misfortune in this one error, you are going to miss other opportunities coming up in the markets. And there are MANY.
Go the BIG CHARTS and you will find many companies you could have doubled your investment in twelve months, in some cases - six months. The Dow has recovered and surpassed all it lost in the 2000 collapse - and by 2000 points. The NASDAQ has been in an uptrend since the early collapse and its nadir around 9/11
The opportunities are there, no one forces us swim in the 'pink
pool'.
If the Lumbs of this world (and there are many) bother you, and you are deeply religious, and live by the book, you can alwys console yourself by saying that you will get your rewards in heaven. And, that such as Lumb, and all the corrupt, will burn in the fires of Hell.
KLONNIE24 ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, I feel the guy will not leave it too long before he tries to milk it again. He has an insatiable love of money, and I believe his life style burns it up fast.
We must remain alert, and use our sharpened (I trust) common sense, and gained knowledge of the man at the top, and 'pinkies' in general.
On the top of this we have a highly nervous market, and money amongst the foolish masses (who feed scams)dwindling daily.
NO ONE IS TRYING TO GIVE ANYONE 'FALSE' HOPE, or CHEER anyone up. What we, and certainly I, have been doing is filling in time (in which we can do nothing) keeping the thread alive, and looking at POSSIBILITIES.
(I love solving crime riddles, and puzzles)
By sharing POSSIBILITIES it gives one a chance to put thoughts to paper which focuses them for self, and give others an opportunity to share and evaluate them, so that if and when something does happen, they can take whatever appropriate action THEIR OWN MIND dictates.
You say - 'However I think that if there is any possible profit coming I believe that you know who will have his snout and indeed his two front legs in the trough before we even get a sniff.'
This, so far, is the general consensus of opinion but in itself means nothing.
However, looking at how he (LUMB) can be the SOLE BENEFICIARY without providing an opportunity, at least, for those who are losing much, to recover some of it, and for others to PERHAPS make a profit can be productive.
In every scam I have read about, and I have read about many, there are others, especially ones in at the beginning who have made money besides the one at the top who started it.
Now, by default, most of us here are IN and will be IN therefore at the beginning of any further movement in this company which can only really go one way.
(If it went the other way and folded today, we couldn't really lose anymore.)
So, as I said, by default, we are positioned to take advantage whether we like it, or not.
It is not the hand you are dealt in life which makes you a winner, its how you play that hand.
The great stories of history are of those who seize opportunity
and turn seeming defeat (loss) into victory (gain).
This company is still on the life support system (I assume for a reason) it is not dead yet.
As they say, where there is life there is hope. If you really see that as hope without substance, the answer is simple - dump your shares on the market - donate them to your unfavourite charity or mother-in-law, and forget about them while you focus on enjoying the rest of your life having learned a valuable lesson the hard way.
If you (that means anyone) see this as offering false hope, or hyping a scam, I can't stop you. But to those with that mindset, all I say is I give you the Rhett Butler farewell -
'.Frankly, my friends, I don't give a damn'.
I THOUGHT THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG somewhere, in how I had read you - I mean $500,000. It's still a lot of money you are down. I know how I feel at $200.
But, while there's life there's hope. And we can't lose any more on this one (or similar pink ventures), unless we don't learn from our mistakes.
Gold is continuing to rise, though the charts do indicate a down correction due within the upward trend. And the 'small caps' have not yet joined in the climb.
THE NEW WEBSITE.............
This will be the clue, if, and when it is opened, that will tell us when and where we are going. WHY? Well, here are just four points to my reasoning.
(1a)I do not believe for one minute that Lumb, the man at the top, would spend one dime more than he needed (unless it was to make two dimes)
(1b) PR's cost nothing, and they are always covered by 'disclaimers' and cautions.
(2) Websites cost money to setup, and maintain. They can also be be visual published evidence against false claims to mislead investors.
(3) There is no need for this, or any company, to host a website if it were not to that company's financial benefit.
(4) A website would have to set out (confirm) what a company has in the way of assets, what is its 'raison d'etre' (objectives), and lots of other data from which to inspire confidence, and investment. (Otherwise what's the point)
As I mentioned earlier, timing is everything. To push out a new website too soon before everything else was in place to get moving would be ineffective and, therefore, a waste of money, time and effort. It would also lose its punch and probably be counter productive.
This is why any new website will hold the clues. And this is almost certainly why they closed the old one, and why they are delaying any new one. Isn't it what any slime ball operation would do even if it were going legit, or setting up a further scam?
SHORTCHANGE: THAT IS AN AWFUL LOT OF 'BREAD' ($500,000) to put in a pink sheet. Am I reading you correctly? If you put that in, and are only losing less than $10,000 you could count yourself lucky.
I can understand your feelings. Tell me, your 'user name', did you pick that before 'investing' in this company, or after? If before, it could be a form of Freudian slip, premonition, or financial death wish.
Sorry for that. Hope you can still manage to see 'the bright (and funny) side of life' (Monty Python Brit humour)
When we lose the habit of being able to laugh at our errors, then we really do have a problem.
However, all may not yet be lost as I have set out in some recent posts, and in the one I am posting after this.
As for a 'criminal' case against the company, the only word I know for sure they have gone back on, so far, is when in a PR (and remember these are always covered by cautionary statements) Brazzano issued a PR to indicate they were not planning a R/S and then shortly afterwards, they did.
All the other claims were not backed by any forcible time limit.
Until a new website sets out its aims and data, there would be little anyone could do if you could assemble enough to bring a class action. They can always say they are still going to comply - there have been 'unforeseeable' delays
Well, that is how I, and a Brit lawyer relative I consulted and who gave it a quick appraisal, see it. But I accept that this may not be the view of others who have studied it in more depth and are acquainted with US financial securities law..
I too had an e-mail response from him. I posted that at the time which was around three or four months ago. It wasn't a bad letter, he was pleasant enough and it was in answer to a question about whether he felt there was undervalue in the company. He was very assuring that the gold assets of the company were VERY undervalued.
When I read up about him later, and saw the letter he wrote to one shareholder (as posted), I felt I had been lucky.
Did you put much money in this company? I can understand how you feel if you are losing much. I am out about $200 which I can live with. Though I hate to lose a dime, especially to a scam artist.
ANOTHER THOUGHT TO BE CONSIDERED IS - according to the info at Big Charts the company is currently valued by share price at $1.3 million.
This means that if it does have any gold assets, and with gold only at its current price of say $730 an ounce, it would only need to hold 1,780 ounces of gold to back that valuation.
And, what is 1,780 ounces of gold?
Now, if he knows, and only he knows, there is considerably more than 1,780 ounces of gold in those mine assets, and he has been picking up all those shares for next to nothing, it has been in his interest to keep the share price so low.
However, I would feel it would be hard to have kept a really large potential secret, and it would have brought a lot of 'informed'speculators in picking up a gravely 'undervalued' stock.
Assuming the opposite, therefore, that there is no 'known' (proved)gold just some questionable assays which state the potential, but, when he launches his new scam he puts out that the potential gold is much greater (a favourite trick of the mining community) and that he is contemplating sharing this out to shareholders, the share price could soar - especially if there is growing 'gold fever' at the time. 'There's no fever like gold fever'.
This makes me feel that although the company has moved into a new venture, the gold card could still be played.
The market cap of this company is a little over $1.25 million that's the price of only an average house in London. In other words - it's peanuts today.
If he merely reverse split again, it would still only be capped the same.
If he reversed split another 2000:1 it would price a share at
8 cents (if my maths are correct). Anyone with 2000 shares now would have only 1 share worth 8cents.
If anyone could short these shares, and I do not know a broker who would allow you to do this on a pink sheet (POS), who would buy them?
In fact, because of the economic climate which exists, and is deteriorating daily, it will be difficult getting any such company off the ground. So, anything Lumb did would have to
be (or appear) very professional and convincing.
In other words, the company would have to attract many new speculators prepared to buy all that the short sellers dumped.
I do not think the current shareholders (all waiting to get out) would pick them up.
My feelings, at present, are that Lumb will pick his time, and
plan things so that it looks as professional, and potentially
as future profitable as possible with, at least in the beginning, a higher share price above anythng brought about by
a R/S.
He may use the Mining assets he is supposed to have on the books as a carrot ('shareout') to bring in new speculators if gold should continue its rise and starts attracting a lot of media attention to the metal. But this would be in addition to how he markets the new company (Financial Services)
Just some thoughts to chew over. Anyone else with ideas that would possibly work?
SHORTCHANGE I HAD ALREADY POSTED THAT INFO ON LUMB IN post number 5455 and more in 5456 and referred to it, and Lumbs past, again in a number of posts.
You were still posting at the time, so it tells me that people do not read all posts, or there is a retention problem.
I would have let this go, old chap, had you not told me I should read up about Lumb.
Because he is such a well known rogue with a strong past history, is why I inferred in one recent post that those to blame are not so much the Lumbs of this world, but those paid 'watchdogs' of the Financial Markets who permit these guys to operate their scams again and again with seeming impunity.
This got interpreted by one poster as my saying that I did not feel Lumb was guilty. English is my native language, and I believe I learned it, and use it with reasonable clarity, yet some will see only what they wish to see.
I tell myself, it really is a waste of a lot of time, and effort, posting information, it is either not read properly, or not retained which amounts to the same thing. (I don't ask that people accept everything in my, or anyone's, posts, but try not to misinterpret' If there is lack of clarity, then we should ask for a better explanation)
This is not just my posts, I believe it is fairly general and on all these forums.
This is why these scams will happen again, and again., and often will catch the same people, again and again.
So why do I bother? Well, for two main reasons. (1) it reinforces the message to myself - so I don't forget. (2) If it just reaches one person and helps them to be more cautious, or to have more info on which to make a more informed judgement, then perhaps all has not been in vein.
I know I have learned, quite often from these forums, as I make a point of retaining that which 'enlightens' me if only by a small glimmer.
We know what is 'supposed' to happen, but we just have to see how it plays out. This Lumb guy does not play by the rules.
So, we have to get into his mind and figure out how he can play things so that he wins. If he could do this without us making (or recovering) a dime, he would. By that I mean if there was a better option open to him.
So far I cannot figure a way he could do this. I feel that there will have to be a positive rise in the share price
for him to benefit.
If anyone can se a way, please feel free to explain. I, for one, am interested.
If he doesn't plan to move this company, why keep it going?
NOT QUITE SURE WHAT YOU MEAN by 'rollover'. I feel sure we will lose the name GWGD and we will adopt the new name and whatever the company offers.
Just what else, I mean of 'value', to rolllover there is, I don't know.
All I know is there is nothing more for us to lose whatever they do.
If he doesn't pull something out of the bag for current shareholders that will raise the shareprice, I would be very surprised as it would be a stupid thing to try an pull off another scam that would have so many irate shareholders bad mouthing from the start.
It would be interesting to know who is holding the bulk of the shares as that could give us some insight into how things might go.
A new website should clear the air a little as to where we are going.
These two months are very precarious for the market in general and the whole market is very unstable. Even the big fish
are nervous. Not a good time for launching anything new.
Not the same company, I feel sure. The web address of the new GWGD is:- fortfinancegroup.com
It seems this 'fortressfinancial' logo (in various forms)is very popular with two-bit companies. There have been other dubious ones - here today, gone tomorrow with just slight variations in set out of the name.
I think they believe that 'fortress' sounds strong and enduring.
Also, if Lumb intends using this company to pull off another 'coup' he will be smart and cunning enough to come up with a more impressive website, and 'product'. He will also pick a more opportune time backed by impressive PR's otherwise it would not get to first base. He doesn't appear to be a guy who wastes money by setting up his scams half cocked.
Just MHO
I THOUGHT THAT POSSIBLE but as my computer, or my server (AOL) has been giving me problems recently by not pulling up some websites, I thought I would check.
Why I believe there will be a new website and more PR in the near future is that the recent comment that the name had been changed etc., was made at all.
There is nothing to be gained from such 'news'. In itself it would not induce new investors, or old ones to buy more.
To make any difference there would have to be something VERY positive, and CONVINCING, and at the right time for the market as a whole.
I do not believe for one minute it will be from an altruistic nature. The intent will be to milk the cash cow further for himself.
It is pure common sense to see he could not do this without creating some value, at least to get any scam off the ground.
So, we must sit, and watch, and wait. As I have mentioned, the current financial markets, in general, are treacherous waters waiting to catch the unwary.
One US based financial forum informed me that some Americans have been more ready to 'save' their credit cards before their homes in this recent downturn. True or not, the fact that it was mentioned shows the sentiment. So, Credit Cards could be the way to go. Being prepaid as is proposed could make a good scam. Build them up being as legit as possible, taking in the cash, then going bust if the 'legit' side is not bringing in enough bottom line profit quickly enough.
This happened with a number of pre-paid phone cards in the UK some time ago - before there were so many competing cut price international rates from new phone companies, and many were using 'phone cards' for long distance and international calls.
Cheers to all
TO WHAT SITE ARE YOU REFERRING? The new site does not come up yet - at least, not for me.
Allan999 Thanks for your kind remarks. Perhaps you missed my post in which I described this man Lumb. I do not think he would be bothered by any comments from this, or any other website forum.
However, I do feel that if he has anything positive in store for this company, he would pick the right time. Timing is everything in the markets (and for crooks).
Our best hope is that in order to enrich himself further from this company, there would have to be some positive things happen. This would afford those who are still in to get out by recouping some of their losses (mine is very little now) or even
making some money.
The markets gnerally, and economy, are very unstable at present. It is difficult to tell which way the cat is going to jump.
We will get some more PR soon, i feel sure. Also, when the new website opens we will have a little better idea as it will, or should, have to list what gold ventures are still on the books.
Pre-paid credit cards should be good, it is the right climate.
But whatever happens, Leopards do not change their spots - and cunning foxes will always be just that, always looking for their next meal.
As for gold. Though it has been rising of late, and it is still in an uptrend, I smell a further fall soon to shake out the weak.
".......According to Susan Last at Computershare on, admittedly 20 March, my position in GWGO was 1-CERT @9,958,540 & book entry shares 41,825,868 giving a total of 51,784,408 (sorry not 41 mill +). I have not been advised about any change but there again I am a thick pensioner investor and as such I may have missed something important!!! Anything you can advise me on would be appreciated..........."
Peter, This is what I would do if in your position. you need to check again and bring it properly up to date so that you know exactly where you stand. If your other figures you quote are correct, flafsyerfan's figures would be about correct, but you need to know for sure.
Do you now have another broker? If you have, no doubt it will be a UK based broker. So you need to discuss it with him so that you get these shares on his books.
Why? Because, in the possible chance that, in order for Lumb to squeeze more blood from the stone, he puts out some more carrots via PR's, or for whatever, and this share price moves up to where you can scoop some of your cash back, you are in a convenient position to do this QUICKLY.
It remains only a possibility so far, but that gives you time to BE PREPARED.
No more talk of 'dumb pensioners'. We have all done stupid things in the past (and no doubt will do some again) - c'est la vie. However, with the internet it is now much easier to get helpful information - as you are doing.
As the Chinese say - Bon Chance!
PS If you do not yet have a good UK broker go to - http://www.ukcitymedia.co.uk/stockbrokers/idealing.php This will give you some food for thought in helping you make the right decision - and get the best 'fees'. After your Spanish ' boiler room' experience, no doubt you will now be down on the international 'suckers list'. So AVOID responding to any unsolicited mail, or e-mail drops - no matter how tempting. But then you have worked that out for yourself???
YOU HAVE 41 MILLION AFTER, repeat AFTER the reverse split????
Better check that is correct Peter
BOY YOU GUYS ARE UNBELIEVABLE. Talk about shifting sands.
No doubt your post, though strictly OFF TOPIC and inflamatory,
will be allowed to stand. So I will not reply as mine would not, and I am not sinking to your level.
A web site that will tolerate such posters, low level language, and immaturity, is unhealthy and a waste of space and time.
Have a whatever day
ALL MY POSTS TO YOU, STOCKSTER HAVE BEEN IN RESPONSE TO YOUR UNCALLED FOR ATTACKS. YOU are the INSTIGATOR.
By your own words you have claimed to be out to cause trouble by attacking my posts. This obviously means deliberately twisting, and misinterpreting my posts, as in my references to LUMB.
Only a such a terminal mischief maker could possibly interpret my last few posts, in particular, supported Lumb as when you claim - 'I unbelievably support Mr Lumb.
In fact, I have researched the guy probably more than anyone here and disclosed on more than one occasion just what he is.
It is quite POSSIBLE that Lumb will try something on to rook his shareholders when the full change is completed. The man, from the articles I have posted,
is fully capable of anything and does not mind how small or how big are the ones he double crosses. He has a history of going back on his word as I HAVE POSTED.
I also said in the repost of mine you quoted:-
" how they could AVOID 'carrying' the shareholders forward into the new company, is beyond me AND WOULD BE GOOD GROUNDS FOR A CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT. "
Rememberm Stockster, you said we would NEVER become Fortress Financial.
It is well known by many that some posters post under more than one 'alias'. There is a noticeable similarity in your posts and exceo's directed at me- that is in tell tale syntax and other give aways, and the way you BOTH have the desire to twist what I post, and to assume that when I use the word possible, it means probable.
SURE THIS COULD BE PURE COINCIDENCE and that is why I merely INFERRED the POSSIBILITY.
As for the final outcome with this company, we can only wait and see. All cards are still on the table with this company.
I do not think we will have to wait long now.
TO THOSE OF YOU WHO BOTHERED TO READ THOSE ARTICLES on Lumb, perhaps you may reflect like I in that it may not be entirely Lumb's fault, or any of these miscreants in the 'markets'
Is it not the system which is mostly to blame? It is a system which permits these scoundrels to get away with it so long with seeming impunity. It must encourage others.
How many of us are only kept from many wrong doings by the fear of getting caught (though we may not be ready to admit it, even to ourselves). We know too, that if it were us, we surely would be caught, and not have the financial backing to get the right lawyers to get us off the hook.
From what we can see, there is enough against this guy Lumb for him to have beeen brought to book and barred from engaging in other scams, and displays of lack of scruples that bring suffering to others.
Just a thought
STOCKSTER You and exceo have a very common problem (thru DNA?) so much so, I feel there is a 'relationship' somewhere. The problem?
Well, you don't need me to point it out, nor does anyone else.
My posts are meant for the non-bigoted, who have open minds so they read what is said, and are not looking for something to pick on.
I have NO personal information what Lumb is up to, or whether gold will rise to $1000. Nowhere do I say that I DO. However I feel a 'possibility' on gold rising as it has been doing for some time by trend (trends are rarely straight lines)
You need to understand the difference between 'possible' and 'probable'.
There is nothing offensive in any of my posts, nor do I attack yours (or anyone's) EVER. I have only ever responded to you, or exceo (are you the same?) in reply to direct comments to me, or about me.
I NEVER attack other's open posts. Everyone is entitled to their view.
I have warned before about Lumb, and here is some more. (but this does not mean we can't POSSIBLY make or recover) money from his transgressions.
People with open, unpolluted minds from personal dislikes will understand my posts, and that is all I care.
ON CHARLES LUMB:
Cruel threats from tyrant in luxury tower
Tony Hetherington, MAIL on SUNDAY
26 March 2006, 10:53am
THE language is unpleasant: 'You are pathetic, a typical smalltimer.' The threats are unnerving: 'I consider you a target and therefore expendable.' And the arrogance of the message is breathtaking: 'You little people fail to realise that people such as myself do not care about you or your lives. I do not care if I break you and your family financially, I could not give a s**t.'
Did these words come from a loan shark perhaps? No, amazingly this was the e-mail received by a shareholder who dared to ask questions when mining investment company Hanover Capital Group lost its place on the junior Alternative Investment Market and embarked on a bewildering series of changes.
And the reply came from the company's boss, South African-born self-proclaimedbnaire Stephen Craig Lumb, who in January announced the purchase of Walton Castle, near Bristol. The asking price was £3.35m.
Lumb, 38, took control of Hanover in March 2003. Three weeks later, the company's professional adviser, Grant Thornton, quit and trading in the shares was suspended. Lumb announced that new advisers would be appointed within days. Three years on, Hanover has no advisers and no share listing and has committed a string of Companies Act offences that look set to spark a Department of Trade and Industry investigation.
Accounts due two years ago have still not been filed. A list of shareholders due at Companies House a month ago is also outstanding. And at one point Hanover disappeared from its registered office and failed to replace its company secretary, who resigned - both breaches of company law.
Since Lumb's appointment to the board, Hanover has failed to hold annual meetings of shareholders.
Instead, the company's 7,000 investors learned through a Press release last year that control of the business had passed to an American firm, St James Capital Holdings, headed by...Stephen Lumb. The American company had owned about five% of Hanover.
Overnight, this leapt to a controlling stake of 66%, paid for not in cash but in restricted shares in St James Capital Holdings itself. Those shares cannot easily be resold and are difficult to value.
Meanwhile, Hanover's mineral rights in Africa, valued at £6.4m, were signed over to another US company, West Africa Gold, in exchange for a 31% stake in the business. Within months, they were simply abandoned. Hanover's stake was valued recently at about £18,000.
Lumb is described as a 'consultant' to West Africa Gold, which has changed its name to Great West Gold. It now claims mineral rights in California and Arizona.
Lumb announced that Hanover's investors would all receive a huge handout of shares in the American company, which would be worth three times the cost of their Hanover shares.
Months later, with no handout in sight, Lumb simply retracted the announcement. Great West Gold similarly announced a distribution of assets.
Mining rights would be hived off to five new British companies, with shares for everyone, to be traded in London by the end of January. But on March 10, a fresh announcement put back trading to the end of this month.
It is unclear how the new shares will be traded. They stand no chance of a full Stock Exchange listing. But Lumb has ambitions for a mini-stock market of his own. He has registered about 100 companies with himself as director.
All of which is no help at all to the locked-in minority shareholders in Hanover Capital Group.
Lumb told Financial Mail: 'Quite frankly, we have done the right thing as far as I am concerned for the Hanover shareholders.' The 'right thing' seems to be an offer of shares in Lumb's other company, St James Capital Holdings. There is no timetable, though.
However badly his shareholders may have fared, Lumb himself enjoys living the high life, with a luxury flat in St James's Square, central London, as well as his newly purchased Walton Castle.
He reportedly owns two private jets, three helicopters and a 68ft yacht. In contrast, though, stories persist of bad debts. Top people's party organiser Red Snapper is still waiting to be paid for caviar and champagne dished out at Lumb's birthday party last April.
The company says it never talks about its clients, but sources put the unpaid bill at about £8,000. Lumb is unabashed, saying that he is 'in dispute' with Red Snapper and has 'no time to be a flashy playboy'.
He did find time, though, to fire off another of his e-mails to property tycoon Vincent Tchenguiz, blaming him for leaking the debt tales - something that Tchenguiz denies.
'My security team has been briefed,' he wrote, and Tchenguiz could expect 'major due diligence' into his private life.
With a Department of Trade and Industry inquiry apparently imminent, Lumb should expect to face more than a few questions himself, very soon
OR, there is this
Lumb plum in the firing line again
THE mystery surrounding Stephen Lumb, the playboy chairman of St James Holdings, deepens. He is already facing allegations of being a bad payer of debts, and last week investors in Hanover, a shell company controlled by Lumb, claimed he was a bad businessman, too.
Among complaints at Hanover was the allegation that he had failed to distribute the company’s assets to shareholders as he had stated in public announcements.
There’s little the 7,000 private investors could do. One, who decided to tackle Lumb directly, was threatened with legal action, and told in an e-mail that St James Holdings would be taking control, so it didn’t matter anyway.
Lumb insists he is being unfairly targeted. He said:
“It is success, happiness and huge wealth that counts to me. The jealous, pitiful and unsuccessful unfortunates of this world love to attempt to bring down those they envy, but they’ll never succeed.”
But, as I said, most of you are not deciding whether to 'get in'
You are already IN. I am merely saying there could well be coming up an opportunity to 'GET OUT'. (you have just to decide 'at what point'.
If any of you wish to take it any other way and twist my words - Be my guest. I do not let petty bickering, and cynical comment rule my life. Those who do have the problem, not I.
No hard feelings 'HAVE A NICE DAY'
LET ME SAY FURTHER I am NOT advocating anyone go out and load up on more shares. Most here seem to be already in, and feel stuck.
You do not have to decide anything, you are already IN. In a way we who are IN by default, have an advantage we have to make no decisions of to buy, or not to buy, we just have to sit and wait for any wave to come, and ride it.
If it doesn't come, well, we will be no worse off.
My hope comes from KNOWING this guy is a crook, and that, like any cunning crook, he will have a well planned agenda for this company to make him more money. In which case, I feel sure the price will have to go UP!
(I also smell hidden gold)
WHY AM I BOTHERING TO SHARE THESE THOUGHTS of mine....thoughts based on possiblities, not probablities....which I know can create a lot of nasty comments from some, out there who are professional cynics, form strong dislikes of a poster, and will take any opportunity to twist what a person is saying to make some nasty, snide, comment?
Here's why. I know there are some very shrewed surfers out there who are far better at maths than I, and some also at being able to root out information.
And, more heads are better than one.
We need some idea, if only a rough one, of how much potential gold there could be in the company's mining assets.
I will disclose here what I have dug out. The first bit is from a report just under 12 months ago:-
Source: Great West Gold, Inc.
Great West Gold, Inc. -- Valuation of Mining Assets
Company Reports On Valuation of Its Mining Assets
NEW YORK, Nov. 3, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- Great West Gold, Inc. (Pink Sheets:GWGO) has been inundated with stockholder requests regarding the value of the Company and its Mining Assets.
The Company is still awaiting detailed reports and valuations on its various properties and is reluctant at this time to place a definite valuation on its Mining Assets.
Stockholders are assured that the value of the Gold Mining Exploration assets being merged in the "Treasure King Gold Group" and the "Sentinel Gold Group" as well as the Copper Mining Exploration assets being merged into the "Copper Mountain Mining Group" will not be less than a total market value of US$800 million after the planned de-merger of the these Mining Exploration assets into three OTC Quoted Companies through "Reverse Mergers".
Whilst many stockholders are of the opinion that the value of these Mining Exploration assets is considerably higher than we are stating, the Company will continue to take this very conservative valuation approach in the absence of completed Competent Person's Reports and updated valuations. The Company acknowledges that the strong commodity prices at present will have a positive effect upon the final valuations. .................'
Since this report, the gold price has increased about $60 an ounce. May analysts believe it is going MUCH higher.
At this time the Mining Holdings were:-
About Great West Gold, Inc.
Great West Gold, Inc., www.greatwestgold.com, is a gold mining exploration stage company engaged in the acquisition and exploration of mining properties in the United States. The Company has Gold assets through its holdings in "Bouse," "Mockingbird", "Ambassador", "Yaba", "Golden Eagle", "Bonanza," "Storm Cloud," "Starlight," "Venezia," "Federal," "Buffalo Lime Cap," "Red Cloud," "South Copperstone" and "Gladstone Lookout" Gold Mining Projects. The Company's Copper assets are "Copper Mountain," "Swansea," "Tip Top" and "Mineral Mountain."
The Company holds five of these Mining Assets through its 51% holding in Bouse Mining Holdings plc, Copperstone Mining Holdings plc, Ambassador Gold Holdings plc, Golden Eagle Mining Holdings plc and in Sentinel Resource Holdings plc. The other Mining Exploration Projects are 100% controlled by the Company
The number of shares outstanding is about 320 million. Now, just imagine there was only a mere, one off, 10,000 troy ounces of gold involved, (and that is VERY small) and the price rises from its current around $700 to a $1000, that would mean a valuation of $10,000,000 in gold. Which, in my maths gives a share valuation seven time what it is now. (Don't forget, the POG s already about $60 an ounce higher than 12 months ago.
I am hoping that with the math elite out their, and the Sherlock Holmes's for sniffing out the clues, we can possibly get a round minimum value figure. Anything then coming from the credit card busines could be cream on the coffee.
Well, its something to fill in the time while we wait for further developments.
'......The Company retains these Gold Mining Exploration interests as portfolio assets, it intends to extract value from these assets through a future "spin off" or a sale.........
'
I Feel the key could well lie in this snippet from the latest PR. Note especially .....' or a sale'.
As we all know by now - Lumb is a scoundrel, in fact, a self confessed scoundrel - I posted some months ago a comment he made to someone who wrote to him complaining about some previous manipulation of the system.
What we have to do is get into his head, and think like a scoundrel, in order to figure out the possiblities open to him for to make money from this company (whatever name he calls it)
He has kept this going for a purpose. His purpose is to make money by hook, or crook (mostly the latter, it seems) From what I have read about him, he LOVES making large amounts of money.
This does not mean we can't make money at the same time if we use our heads, and keep them clear.
I cannot figure out a way he can do this, here, without the share price going up - considerably.
If you can, please share.
To me, at the present, the way which comes to me is that he and his confederates have been picking up the shares of this company (made fewer by the huge reverse split) as they have been dumped. I mean, who else would have bought them in any significant number?
By keeping us without news, blocking the GWGD website, refusing to answer
e-mails etc., it blocked any interest and made people dump at a loss. The low price would have got any big shorts out, I would assume. He got his shares back for nothing.
Now, if the company was 'undervalued' from its gold assets, as he stated - even in writing to me in response to an e-mail I sent him months ago (before he stopped all communication), and the gold price rises considerably higher, and he holds most of the shares, he is going to make himself a fortune.
This would happen whether he dangled the carrot of 'a future 'spin off', or he sells off the gold assets when everyone is rying to grab all the gold they can as it possibly rises to $1000, and above. There would be a frenzy of buying of gold at some point by the naive masses who always pour in when the party is almost over.
The smart, and cunnning, acquire at the bottom, and sell at the top.
I will put the rest in another post
I regret buying many stocks - all the ones that lose me money.
In fact, I regret many things I have done in my life.
However, on reflection we have to see that everything that happens - even the good things are all part of a chain - each one dependent on the other.
Now, as far as the web site goes - it hasn't been opened yet.
I guess when it is ready we will not need a password, or registration.
Feeling miserable and moaning won't change a thing except affect negatively the other aspects of our life.
Truly successful people are always positive - at least all the ones I've observed appear to be. Same with lucky people - they attract good things by their attitude.
Have a great weekend. I'm off to bed, it's bye bye time in London.
DON'T KNOW IF IT IS WELL PLANNED TIMING...but
We have the credit crunch, the subprime debacle, and gold hotting up (Today over $700 again) and GWGD starts to come alive with more PR's - new website, name change bla bla.
Well, if Lumb is out to milk his fatted calf again, he will need to put out some more hooks and fresh bait to attract more 'fish'
(I know, that's a mixed metaphor but it spells the message)
We can only gain, if, and when, he does.
What we have to decide is - when is it the time to get out, or hang on in?
PS If gold rockets to over $1000, as many believe, and Lumb releases the valuation of his gold assets (and it's good) the price of this stock would rocket. It's a big IF but, then that is what it's all about. If he has picked up most of the shares being dumped, he will be laughing all the way to his many banks.
CRISIS SPELLS OPPORTUNITY?
Prudent Investor, points us to a terrific Boston Globe story breaking the news that even as the mortgage mess started accelerating, credit card companies began targeting subprime mortgage holders with a deluge of direct mail offers pitching new credit cards! Because if you can't refinance your way into some quick cash, then pulling out some brand-new plastic is clearly the smart way to go.
As explained by the Globe's Robert Gavin, credit card companies are quite fond of subprime mortgage holders in distress, because they're likely to make only the minimum payments on their bills, allowing the credit issuers to rack up big interest fee windfalls. Direct mail offers to borrowers with good credit, in contrast, are falling, because people who pay off their bills every month are, well, icky.
Rest assured -- these lenders won't make the same reckless mistakes as the mortgage originators.
Credit card issuers have a successful record of managing the risk of lending to subprime customers, using sophisticated computer models to determine fees, interest rates, and lines of credit, industry analysts said.
In many ways, they have had to. Unlike mortgages, which are secured, meaning lenders can take property if borrowers default, credit card loans are unsecured.
A default can mean total loss.
It is a risk banks are willing to take. Recent loan officer surveys by the Federal Reserve showed that many banks eased credit card lending standards this year, even as mortgage standards tightened.
That's the best news How the World Works has heard all summer: Credit card lending standards are being relaxed, just in time for an economic slowdown. I have complete faith in "sophisticated computer models." Don't you?
__________________
As I said, the way things are going, we could be moving into the right business, at the right time.
WELL IT SHOWS THERE'S LIFE IN THE OLD DOG YET.
(and thanks Ragingjonn)
I would love to know the 'intrinsic' value of the Gold Mining assets at current value. If anyone can find out - please post.
I feel that gold is warming up to rise soon - certainly, one should be holding some gold mining stock after any further 'shake out' correction.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think it is the company which has been picking up the shares at these low prices because of the (known by them) value of the gold in their held interests.
I suppose if one looks at the current share price, it has only to move up to .0075 to double your money.
We have to wait now to see what the deal really is on the new company. If it 'plays the game' as we Brits say, it will be in the right sector to do well.
There is absolutely no doubt that Lumb (the guy at the top) is a ruthless, corrupt, scam artist, but that does not mean you can't make (or recover) money by tagging on to his tail.
There are few company CEO's I would really trust anyway these days. We are living in a world of corruption in high places - and that is not going to change in our life time - except get worse.
Lumb is obviously going to milk this cow some more, and he can hardly do that without pushing up the share price and getting some volume, and new 'traders' (amost said suckers)in there.
I did say that all the cards were still on the table with this company and there were 'possibilities' if not 'probablities'in store.
WOULD ANYONE ADMIT TO THAT - 'Has anyone tried to purchase any new shares?' They would run the risk of being carried off by men in white to the funny farm.
Thanks JG. It is nice to get some kinder comments occasionally.
To ANYONE, if I ever make any unqualified specific comment re this company with which you disagree, or I misunderstand you, please feel free to express that.
In all my posts I try to make a fair appraisal, and to give the benefit of any doubt be it a poster or the company.
I am always searching - even in my market trading, for 'possiblities'. To see only 'probables' has led to many a downfall. Life can be full of surprises - good and bad.
Anything can still happen with this company. I doubt that few if any companies do things by way of altruism - as in to benefit the mass of its smaller shareholders. There is always an 'angle'. In the pinkies it is just more evident that they tend to 'screw' the masses because BIG MONEY doesn't play in their yard. But then, we all know that don't we?
EXCEO May I suggest, kindly, that you learn to read, or get someone to read a post for you if English is not your mother tongue, before responding.
You also need to understand the difference between 'possibly' and probably'. That is if you wish to respond objectively to another's post without uncalled for snide cynicism for self gratification, or to support a buddy.
Look again at my opening paragraph, and my closing one. There is NOTHING to indicate I am pushing anyone in any direction, or building false hopes. It suggests, got that, SUGGESTS a possibilty (not a probablity)
We Brits, or most of us, treat our language, and others, with respect. Comprehension, before comment in debate, was hammered into me at school - and when in the forces, I was taught to make sure of what I was shooting at, before letting fly.
All I ask is that you do the same.
The paragraphs to which I refer:-
Date:8/24/2007 12:07:40 AM
Post #of 6000
THIS IS NOT HYPE,nor is it intended to give false hope to anyone.
It is meant solely for consideration as a remote possibility.
As I said - just a thought, nothing more. But, it is a possibility.
(PS I have copied this post just in case some false explanation is given for its deletion by te thread moderator) I am merely responding to a most uncalled for cynical, and unecessary, reponse to my earlier post)
What,or who, has credibilty to you is of no consequence to me.
If this website is prepared to tolerate a poster who can post such trouble stirring immature drivel of which your last post alone, never mind what you tried on previously, is an example, then I would not wish to be a contributer here anyway.
My time is very valuable. However, I saw a fellow Brit having having problems in understanding what was happening. My post was for him, and any other unbiased, open minded, interested surfer here.
You, or anyone, may repost any of my posts from the past. They will stand on their own as fair, and to the point.
How strange (not really to those who know you) that Peter, as I said, a fellow Brit, did not see anything that would put him wrong in my post, and that would invite such unnecessery low intelllect comment from anyone.
As always, mine was a fair appraisal of the situation as it stands, that could be considered a possibility.
Anything can still happen with this company. Nothing is off the table.
Now, I have taken a copy of this post in reply. If you again get your friend moderator of this thread (perhaps you are one and the same)to remove my reply, and allow your obnoxious, uncalled for, comments to stand, they will be placed before the owners of this site for them to make their decision.
If this is something they allow, then so be it, I will know for sure I am spending time where I should not.
Not quite sure what you mean Peter about your UK broker 'going'? You mean 'belly up'? I haven't heard of any brokers going out of business?
I use a US discount broker.
All I have are the ones I got in the share dividend. I sold my original ones and kept the 'bonus' shares. I see them a sort of 'lottery' ticket.
You don't need to think about selling them yet - not at this price. When you get another broker the can transfer them from
wherever they are at present.
The mines supposedly still held by GWGD are listed here on the back pages - I remember someone even costing out their value - so if anyone cares to backtrack..........
They were on the website but now we can't accesss.
What we should ask ourselves is why they still keep this dog going if it is worthless - especially when they are doing nothing, and saying nothing, to keep the shareholders in.
There is another angle to my previous post in which I set out a possible scenario. It is that if, and when, gold does rise big time, as I am convinced it will, and in the very near future now, they could find someway of excluding current shareholders from benefiting. (I have thought of a way they could try this on but won't go into it now)
I guess, it all depends on just how crooked these guys are.
They could then sell off any reserves they have, and as they possible hold most of the shares (they have picked, and are still picking, up for nothing, they will make a fortune.
But, if the POG rises as some say to over a $1000+ (and remember this is no more, in fact less, I think, than what $800
was back in 1980 when it reached that price) then the current share price would be seen as under-valuing the company.
So, they would clean up selling all the shares they hold at a much higher price and have a going business to boot.
They will win, either way.
Don't forget ALL the mines are down at present. It is not the climate for 'pumping' a tiddler like this. It would be a waste of time and effort. If I were in 'the chair' I would hold my fire until the mines are back in favour - BIG TIME!
Peter, I too am in the UK - London
Good hunting to all
THIS IS NOT HYPE,nor is it intended to give false hope to anyone.
It is meant solely for consideration as a remote possibility.
First let us look at the whole of the 'Gold' (PM) market. It is
abysmal considering the economic, and financial turmoil which exists throughout the world - vibrating from the US.
Gold, according to accepted 'tradition, in these circumstances should be blowing through the roof, as they say.
Energy, the largest cost element in mining next to labour is high causing many mines to not even break even. That many small ones continue to exist at all is amazing.
All this, I firmly believe is going to change very soon. Gold, and silver, but gold in particular, will make a sudden, and significant move up, catching everyone by surprise.
Those caught left at the station will wait hopefully for the train to come back to pick them up. They will wait forever.
This company could still be a form of scam that will bring rich rewards for its owners, but not perhaps in the same way as it first appears.
Here, I explain. There could be considerable gold still in the ground (as they once stated) at the mines still held. Keeping it there until its value rises is probably better than digging it out at an uneconomic cost then storing it again.
Meanwhile they have been able to make money on the venture by false promises and jiggery-pokery with the 'share' price, and dangling carrots of hope at that time to encourage the money in.
Once the money milked from the herd, then NOTHING.
By, themselves, picking up the shares dumped at give away prices, the owners could be holding most of these shares and consequently, all that gold in the ground ready to make a killing
when gold soars above $700 and beyond. It is a huge 'piggy bank'
for them that will soar in value.
Yes, the few 'old faithful' shareholders still hanging on will benefit, but most have already lost considerable sums which will have to be made up before they see 'profit.' But these will dump there shares as sson as they see some of their money back, right when they should be hanging on.
All this would account for the fact they, the company, have done everything in their power to shake people out. Forget naked shorting, the clue is that the company has done nothing to fight back, and to assure us to hang on in there. They appear to WANT us OUT!
We are going to have to wait until gold starts to move. It will
be the big ones first - Barrack (ABX) and Newmont(NEM) etc.,
It could easily be another nine months before the small ones start to really move in a big way when the masses will be clamouring for anything with 'gold' in its name. (This could be another reason why they have still not changed the name - they know what is coming.)
As I said - just a thought, nothing more. But, it is a possibility. Its probably what I would do, if I were that way
inclined. (It's just a devious mind, I've got, nothing more, smile)
Will be posting no more on this 'scam' website run by Stockster and his mates
Saved you having my post removed Stockster. Have removed it myself
TELL YOUR WIFE THAT you have thought it over very seriously and that you have concluded if you bought her a beautiful expensive ring it could make people focus on the ring instead of the natural beauty of herself which you feel is more worthy of appreciation. In fact, it would be a waste of money as she outshines any expensive bauble.
It may work. But nothing is guaranteed in life, except death (which if my suggestion fails, maybe short in coming for you)
At least, have a bucket handy just in case she needs to puke.
It's nice to know that humour is not completely dead over there.
Had this been a Brit website, there would have been many such tidbits of humour. I have refrained here myself from such 'tongue in cheek' comments as I have learned now from experience that seeing the funny side of life has been fast disappearing across 'the Pond'.
When it is done, you have to make it so obviously of funny intent, that it takes away the very essence of its humour.
It's an interesting study of how life is changing. Once you lose your sense of humour, life becomes a real drag.