for all to see,

this is what the escrow dd'ers are banking on. one line item from the jpm 10Q, no description in the jpm 10q of what these funds are, but since they are off book and wamu is listed, the escrow dd'ers think these are the off book funds that belong to wamu escrow holders that have or will be given back to escrow holders. laughable!

R203 — Off-Balance Sheet Lending-Related Financial Instruments, Guarantees and Other Commitments – Loan Sales- and Securitization-Related Indemnifications (Details)

Amount of residential mortgage loans, private-label securitization by Washington Mutual 165,000,000,000


this line item is what all the dreams are made up from. WOW

also, good morning to you fwh

all imo

fwh, please don't tell me this is the line item that all the escrow dd'ers are counting on for the 10s of billions coming back to wamu holding. This is directly from scrivener's post.

R203 — Off-Balance Sheet Lending-Related Financial Instruments, Guarantees and Other Commitments – Loan Sales- and Securitization-Related Indemnifications (Details)

Amount of residential mortgage loans, private-label securitization by Washington Mutual 165,000,000,000

THIS IS WHAT THE ESCROW DD'ERS THINK IS COMING BACK OR HAS COME BACK FROM JPM TO WAMU HOLDING. PLEASE TELL ME THAT THIS IS NOT THE LINE ITEM YOU ALL HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. PLEASE.

ALL IMO

wamu and jest, thanks, finally a thought provoking thread. this is interesting, I don't understand the ipo part as it relates to cleaning up there books before a merger. that complicates the transaction. please further explain, I may have missed somehting.

all imo

large, there you go again, why oh why, lol.

You could not be more wrong in your analysis for the simple reason all the wamu holding company assets are gone. They have been sliced, diced, laundered, stolen, hidden, commingled etc.. And here is the part you just don't get, you think there were 10s of billions in wamu holding company assets when there were less then 900 million that were not commingled with the banks.

Again, who is managing all the wonderful wamu holding company assets that you think are there and who is fighting for them, is it susman, rosen, the hedge funds, who. surely not susman, they have not billed significantly in years, surely not rosen because you know he has always been in bed with jpm, the hedgies, not at this time because no lawsuit filed with claims of huge damages. So who, oh yea, I keep forgetting that jpm and fdick have been wonderful stewards of all those holding company assets and are just waiting to give them all back to escrows. wow, how naive.

Use occams razor, the simplest explanation is the most accurate explanation. And drum role please...

WMIH IS GOING TO USE 6+ BILLION IN NOL LEVERAGE TO ACQUIRE ONE LARGE COMPANY OR MANY SMALL COMPANIES OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS AND UTILIZE THE NOL'S TO PROTECT OVER 2 BILLION IN EARNINGS THROUGH THE TAX BENEFITS OF THE NOL'S. THE ACQUIRED COMPANY(S) WILL BE ACQUIRED THROUGH THE A COMBINATION OF SHARES AND CASH.

Please stop the insanity about escrows. It ain't going to happen. Sorry to burst your bubble.

all imo

fwh, please post it for all to see, i'm waiting. thx

donot, you are absolutely right, many of the escrow dd'ers have so little practical experience in bk, how estates work, paying the waterfall, they actually think that jpm and fdick-r are working together to manage the holding company assets to maximize return. nothing could be further from the truth. you have the best bean counters, the best lawfirms working on behalf of jpm. They have had 7 years to figure out the best way to steal all the assets of the holding company, and what is the receiver doing, nothing, because they don't care about a few jr bond holders and share holders of the holding company. It is a license to steal for jpm. who is working on our behalf, can you say susman, NOT, he hasn't been in years, can you say, jpm, of course NOT, can you say fdic-r, NOT. so who.

I guess the check will come from above and be dropped off in rosen's hands and he will throw the party for escrow holders and present them with a check for 10s of billions of dollars. it is so ridiculous it makes me chuckle every time some of the posters say there are 10s of billions just sitting with fdick-r waiting to be turned over. just hilarious.

all imo

lol fwh, so no one has a copy of that 10q, sure. it just disappeared. with all those posting on this board and the private board you are telling me not one person has a copy of that 10q pdf, give me a break, oh yea, all off book and all a conspiracy. hmm, let me think about that, it is a conspiracy because jpm is going to get away with slicing, dicing, laundering, commingling, stealing, hiding all those wamu assets. all gone, even though there were not a 10th of what you guys dream were there, jpm still stole them.

all imo

hmm, cash and assets, are mortgages assets, did you read the txt included, it said seasoned mortgages and it said non performing assets....

all imo

fwh, anything is possible but what you are saying and what many others have said makes no sense. fdic-r has a legal, yes legal responsibility to disseminate all pertinent information related to the estate. in the june report fdic-r the receiver, stated there is 2.75 billion, they also stated there are numerous lawsuits, the biggest being DB, they have also stated it is highly unlikely that jr's or shareholders will see any money, how much clearer than that could it be. They have zero, yes zero vested interested to withhold info that could benefit the estate.

think, what rationale can you come up with for the fdic-r to not state they have worked their azz off to help get the creditors paid and bond holders and shareholders paid. it would make them look very good, so why would they withhold this info.

They have 2.75 in cash period and that will be long gone with the db lawsuit.

all imo

nugget, that is ridiculous, they are so closely linked it beyond my comprehension that you can't see that. the fdic-r is an arm of the fdic, let's say jpm decides not to cooperate, which is the case, then how does fdic-r go after that money. do you know? so so naive.

all imo

donot, I don't recall it stating whether it was the bank. but I bet if you read the content again, it will be clearer. that is if you can find it.

dd'ers why not post the exact jpm 10q it was in.

all imo

donot, I did see the line item that the escrow dd'ers are talking about, it did state wamu 151 billion, what the dd'ers did not do is read the text where it stated and I'm paraphrasing here, THAT THOSE WERE OLD MORTGAGES FROM YEARS BEFORE THE BK AND IT STATED SOMETHING LIKE, 80 SOMETHING BILLION HAVE SEASONED, 50 SOMETHING BILLION ARE NON CONFORMING.........Why oh why people think this is cash coming back to the holding company is beyond me.

I did see it, it's in one of the jpm 10qs but some have stated it's not there anymore, which I doubt. Someone must know what jpm 10q it was in and the page number, but now the dd'ers don't want to give that info up, why?

all imo

BELOW IS THE FDICK-R STATUS REPORT. You do realize that if the fdick-r had any more money that belonged to the estate it would be posted in this report. There is no off book cash laying around. That would be illegal for fdick-r to not report holding company assets. Those thinking this is off book are just plain wrong. all imo
==============================================================
Status of Washington Mutual Bank Receivership

On September 25, 2008, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation was appointed the Receiver for Washington Mutual Bank ("WAMU"). The Receiver transferred substantially all WAMU's assets and liabilities to JPMorgan Chase ("JPMC") pursuant to a Purchase and Assumption Agreement dated September 25, 2008 - PDF. The next day, Washington Mutual Inc. ("WMI"), the holding company for WAMU, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (assigned to Judge Mary F. Walrath). Thereafter, WMI, JPMC, the FDIC, in its Corporate capacity, and the Receiver became involved in several lawsuits contesting the ownership of over $20 billion in assets.

The parties reached a settlement that was approved by the FDIC's Board of Directors on May 20, 2010, and WMI filed a plan of reorganization incorporating the terms of the settlement ("Settlement"). Several parties objected to WMI's proposed plan, and in particular, WMI's proposal to release its claims against JPMC, the FDIC and the Receiver. At the request of WMI's equity holders, the Bankruptcy Court appointed an Examiner to thoroughly investigate WMI's claims against JPMC, the FDIC and the Receiver, and to determine whether the proposed settlement (which would release these claims) was fair and equitable to WMI. The Examiner found that the settlement was a fair resolution.

On February 24, 2012, the Bankruptcy Court entered an order confirming the seventh amended plan - PDF proposed by WMI and its co-debtor WMI Investment Corp (the "Plan"). The Settlement - PDF, as amended from time to time, remains integral to and incorporated in the Plan. The Plan and Settlement became effective on March 19, 2012. The Receiver received $843.9 million pursuant to the terms of the Settlement.

As of June 30, 2015, the Receiver has approximately $2.75 billion to distribute to holders of claims allowed by the receivership, according to the priority established in 12 U.S.C. § 1821(d)(11)(A). Before the Receiver can distribute these funds, however, it must pay administrative expenses and resolve a number of lawsuits that have been filed against it, the largest of which was filed by Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. claiming $6 to $10 billion in damages arising out of WAMU's alleged breach of representations and warranties made in connection with mortgages sold to securitized trusts. (Amended Complaint - PDF). In June, 2015, the court issued a partial summary judgment decision, finding that the Receiver retained liability for Deutsche Bank’s claims, to the extent that such claims were not reflected at a stated book value in the financial accounting records of WAMU as of the failure date. (Amended Memorandum Opinion - PDF). The Receiver is seeking appellate review of the decision. Because the amount of the liability has not been determined, the potential impact on the WAMU receivership is not yet known.

Also, the Receiver must resolve a number of indemnity claims made by JPMC. JPMC has submitted over 100 notices of potential indemnity claims. (Notices can be found at Group 1: JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Whole Bank P&A - PDF in the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Service Center Reading Room - PDF and, JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Bank Whole Bank P&A at, Group 2: JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Whole Bank P&A - PDF). Should the Receiver be found liable on any of JPMC's indemnity claims, under the P&A, those claims will be satisfied as administrative expenses and thus before the claims of general unsecured creditors. Current information indicates that the Receiver is unlikely to have sufficient funds to distribute to holders of receivership certificates issued to junior note holders or equity holders of WAMU.

The financial status of the WAMU receivership as of June 30, 2015 can be found at the following link: (WAMU Quarterly Receivership Balance Sheet Summary). Note that the Total Liabilities line item does not include estimated litigation losses that are considered reasonably possible, including amounts that range from $ 1 billion to $10 billion.

kevins, the number that so many of the posters are using and misunderstanding is one line item in a jpm 10q that states wamu and 151 billion. what that number is, is runoff mortgages that have all but seasoned, what they think it is, cash given to the fdic-r by jpm, which in no way no how happened.

all imo

guru, sure you can't, so the fdic-r is holding over 100 billion of wamu holding company assets right. the fdic-r charter is to expeditiously return assets to it's rightful owners, just like any other trustee and that is what the fdic-r is. they are responsible for paying debts and returning assets. If they had anywhere near that kind of money they would put in escrow enough to payoff all the lawsuits and return the rest and more importantly they would report this information in their reports. The report for june states 2.75 billion in cash and over 10 billion in lawsuits against the estate. They have also stated it is unlikely that jr's and share holders will get anything, THAT IS A FACT. Dreamers dream, take some action. oh yea, all off book,lol, with their charter that would be illegal.

all imo

escrow dd'ers, just one question, if jpm has the assets and they refuse to give them back without a fight, who is going to sue them, susman, with no retainer, the hedge funds who would have to spend hundreds of millions, or the fdic or fdic-r. this is where you guys just can't grasp what has happened.

fwh, please don't tell me again, 10s of billions has been returned because that is laughable.

all imo

READ THIS IF YOU THINK THE FDIC IS WORKING IN ESCROWS BEST INTEREST AND THEN TELL ME YOU STILL THINK A HUGE RECOVERY IS COMING.

Which Aspect of the FDIC’s Litigation Failures is the Most Embarrassing and Damaging?
Posted on March 12, 2013 by Devin Smith | 9 Comments

By William K. Black


On March 11, 2013 the Los Angeles Times published a revealing article by E. Scott Reckard entitled: “In major policy shift, scores of FDIC settlements go unannounced.”

The article’s summary statement captures the theme nicely. “Since the mortgage meltdown, the FDIC has opted to settle cases while helping banks avoid bad press, rather than trumpeting punitive actions as a deterrent to others.”

The article contains four key facts we did not know about the FDIC’s leadership and its litigation director. The only question is which of these three facts provides the most revealing insight into the disgrace that the FDIC has become. The first fact is that the banks and bank officers can now cut deals with the FDIC designed to keep their settlements secret. What that tells us is that the FDIC’s leaders are indifferent or clueless about deterrence and earning public respect for the integrity of the FDIC’s efforts to hold the officers who drove the crisis accountable.

The second key fact that we learned from the article is that the size of the settlements, for some of the most culpable fraudulent mortgage lenders, is so embarrassingly low that the FDIC’s litigators and investigators have proven to be an embarrassing failure. Consider these settlements:

“Many of the FDIC settlements reviewed by The Times are small, but others required larger payments from prominent lenders. Quicken Loans and GMAC’s Residential Capital unit, for example, separately agreed to pay $6.5 million and $7.5 million, respectively, over soured loans they had sold to IndyMac.”

Those settlements are likely to be at least an order of magnitude too small given the size of IndyMac, the terrible quality of its portfolio, the typical nature of reps and warranties provided by the sellers, the enormous incidence of false reps and warranties observed in similar cases, and the defendants’ ability to pay far larger damages.

Other settlements reveal that the FDIC is allowing even the controlling officers of the most notorious fraudulent lenders to walk away wealthy.

“At least 10 undisclosed settlements involved officers and directors accused of contributing to the collapse of their own banks. Those include 11 insiders at Downey Savings & Loan in Newport Beach who paid a total of about $32 million, most of it covered by corporate insurance policies. In the Downey case, the FDIC announced last year that four of the insiders had agreed to be banished from banking, including Maurice L. McAlister, Downey’s co-founder, who died Feb. 13.

But the announcement mentioned nothing about the payments or sanctions against the seven other former insiders. Out of the $32 million, McAlister was required to pay $1.93 million out of his own pocket, with the other insiders paying a combined $1.75 million. Insurers that provided coverage for civil wrongdoing by officers and directors paid the remaining $28.4 million.

The FDIC also has resolved certain claims involving IndyMac, including a $1.4-million settlement in May 2011 with the thrift’s former president, Richard Wohl.”

The McAlister and Wohl settlements are disgraces. The FDIC’s senior and legal leadership has proven itself unfit and should resign.

That disgrace provides the transition to the third aspect of the FDIC’s embarrassment revealed by the article.

“The FDIC also may have been emboldened by success in a rare case it took to trial, according to a recent report from consulting firm Cornerstone Research.

The trial led to a Dec. 7 federal jury verdict in Los Angeles ordering three former IndyMac executives to pay $168.8 million for what the FDIC said was reckless approval of 23 loans to developers and home builders who never repaid them. It was the highest award possible in the case.

Another FDIC lawsuit, seeking $600 million from former IndyMac Chairman and Chief Executive Michael Perry, was resolved for a fraction of the claim Dec. 14. Perry agreed to pay $1 million himself, allowed the FDIC to pursue an additional $11 million from insurers and agreed to be banned from the industry.

The news was first announced in emails sent to news organizations — not by the FDIC, but by Perry’s defense attorneys, who considered the outcome a victory.”

These four paragraphs display the relevant contrast. In the “rare” case the FDIC was willing to litigate they obtained a $168.8 million recovery. In the Perry case, the FDIC allowed one of the most culpable defendants in the entire crisis grow wealthy by making enormous numbers of fraudulent liar’s loans. The FDIC’s decision to accept the Perry settlement requires a descriptor that is worse than a “disgrace.” It is reprehensible. It is no wonder that Perry’s defense attorneys made public the settlement as a PR move because they were so delighted with the FDIC’s collapse. A collapse like this does not represent simply a litigation failure. It also constitutes a moral collapse by the FDIC’s leaders. They simply lack the integrity and courage to represent our Nation.

The third fact that emerges is that the FDIC’s real purpose in entering into these settlements crafted to try to keep the public from learning about them is not to secure a higher settlement but to protect the FDIC leadership from embarrassment for their failures of nerve, competence, and any understanding of the overriding need to ensure that no executive walks away making a profit from fraudulent lending.

The fourth fact that emerges is that the FDIC does not understand how a banking regulator and its litigators must deal with control fraud. It is fine for the FDIC to lose half its litigated cases against the senior officers who run control frauds where its wins lead to large awards that remove any gains the controlling officers received from the bank. What the “C-suite” defendants need to understand is the moral certainty that the FDIC will, as a matter of principle, never agree to a settlement that leaves a non-judgment proof controlling officer with wealth he gained by leading the bank to make fraudulent liar’s loans. When elite defendants engage in fraud the banking regulators’ paramount task is not to maximize the expected value of the recovery – it is to deter future frauds because control fraud causes catastrophic losses and drives our recurrent, intensifying financial crises. The defendants need to know that the FDIC will be remorseless in litigating against the senior officers running control frauds.

The actions of Perry’s lawyers in publicizing the FDIC settlement tells us what an embarrassing defeat they inflicted on the FDIC because it was unwilling or incapable of summoning the moral courage to litigate the case. Is there anyone left in the banking regulatory ranks with a fire in their belly? Is there no one who has had enough and will insist that the fraudulent controlling officers limp away bankrupt rather than strut away wealthy?

As many of you continue to dream of escrow riches, you should read this over and over again until it sinks in.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
On February 24, 2012, the Bankruptcy Court entered an order confirming the seventh amended plan - PDF proposed by WMI and its co-debtor WMI Investment Corp (the "Plan"). The Settlement - PDF, as amended from time to time, remains integral to and incorporated in the Plan. The Plan and Settlement became effective on March 19, 2012. The Receiver received $843.9 million pursuant to the terms of the Settlement.

As of June 30, 2015, the Receiver has approximately $2.75 billion to distribute to holders of claims allowed by the receivership, according to the priority established in 12 U.S.C. § 1821(d)(11)(A). Before the Receiver can distribute these funds, however, it must pay administrative expenses and resolve a number of lawsuits that have been filed against it, the largest of which was filed by Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. claiming $6 to $10 billion in damages arising out of WAMU's alleged breach of representations and warranties made in connection with mortgages sold to securitized trusts. (Amended Complaint - PDF). In June, 2015, the court issued a partial summary judgment decision, finding that the Receiver retained liability for Deutsche Bank’s claims, to the extent that such claims were not reflected at a stated book value in the financial accounting records of WAMU as of the failure date. (Amended Memorandum Opinion - PDF). The Receiver is seeking appellate review of the decision. Because the amount of the liability has not been determined, the potential impact on the WAMU receivership is not yet known.

Also, the Receiver must resolve a number of indemnity claims made by JPMC. JPMC has submitted over 100 notices of potential indemnity claims. (Notices can be found at Group 1: JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Whole Bank P&A - PDF in the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Service Center Reading Room - PDF and, JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Bank Whole Bank P&A at, Group 2: JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Whole Bank P&A - PDF). Should the Receiver be found liable on any of JPMC's indemnity claims, under the P&A, those claims will be satisfied as administrative expenses and thus before the claims of general unsecured creditors. Current information indicates that the Receiver is unlikely to have sufficient funds to distribute to holders of receivership certificates issued to junior note holders or equity holders of WAMU.

The financial status of the WAMU receivership as of June 30, 2015 can be found at the following link: (WAMU Quarterly Receivership Balance Sheet Summary). Note that the Total Liabilities line item does not include estimated litigation losses that are considered reasonably possible, including amounts that range from $ 1 billion to $10 billion.

walters, is this a real question or is it a joke.

The fdic-r, whatever they state regarding forensics accounting as it relates to claw backs is a joke. Fdic-r is incompetent regarding any aspects of clawing back assets. This is what you guys don't understand, the fdic-r role is to protect the banks that steal assets in our case but in most cases it relates to bank fraud perpetrated by bank executive.

The fdic-r is a lazy, incompetent, group who want this entire financial crisis over hang to go away because they are getting way to much press for protecting banking execs.

This is why wamu holding has no shot to get a 10th of what assets were stolen.

Let me see if I can find the article regarding fdic-r and their lack of competency or is it their complacency allowing the likes of jpm get away with murder.

I will look for it and post it later.

all imo

newbie, I will take that return and run, to bad it ain't going to happen, a few cents is possible for commons, that's it.

all imo

rockie, be real, 20-30billion, that is more than pie in the sky, try a couple hundred million if that. Sheesh, you guys think 10 billion dollars is chump change. lol

all imo

spider, Why 3.5 billion shares, my thought is because the companies they want to buy will be partially paid in shares based on performance of said asset. kkr, citi and wmih are thinking big.

Who knows what size company wmih will be acquiring, what if the company they want to acquire is relatively large from a rev and earnings perspective and they need to do a cash and share deal. How about another scenario, say the companies they are looking at have mid range revs and earnings, then they have to do a cash and share deal but multiple deals, let me give you one more, lets say they are looking at smaller companies and they have to do a cash and share deal, they just do more of them. Thus eventually using up the shares.

you are so blinded by your long shot holding company asset hopes that you can't see how real m&a works.

all imo

halvo, no fight, no money for escrows, that's just the name of the game. you actually think that jpm signed over anything during any meeting behind closed doors. rosen got caught, that is why we have wmih as share holders, susman did his job and equity didn't get cancelled. escrows were just thrown in just in case some pittance of assets trickled down the waterfall.

the max number of assets the holding company had was 32 billion minus liabilities of 8, that is the max. where are those assets and what was the true value at the time of seizure. jpm will eat the valuation alive and those 32 billion will be less than the liabilities, it may be a lie but I think that is what jpm bean counters will say. then, whoever is fighting for the holding company says no, no, its a lot of billions, please give them to me, then jpm says fu, see you in court. that is when the battle starts. until that happens, escrows get zero.

all imo,

fwh, relax, I'm just trying to get you and many others to understand that the game is rigged and jpm plays it better then anyone else in the world. I know a heck of a lot more about transactional history of jpm then anyone that posts on this board. I have been involved in more than when transaction with jpm and they play the game the exact same way every time. I have said it once and will say it again.

THEY ARE IN CONTROL AND WHAT THAT MEANS IF THEY HAVE AN ASSET THAT IS IN DISPUTE AND THEY WON'T TURN IT OVER WITHOUT A LEGAL FIGHT, THEY NEVER HAVE IN THE PAST SO WHY DO YOU THINK WAMU IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. I WILL TELL YOU WHY BECAUSE YOU AND MANY OF THE ESCROW DD'ERS HAVE NEVER STUDIED JPM'S ACTIONS BEFORE. DO YOU THINK THIS IS THE ONLY TIME THEY HAVE STOLEN OTHER COMPANIES ASSETS? I CAN GIVE YOU NUMEROUS EXAMPLES WHERE THEY TRIED TO STEAL ASSETS AND HOW THEY TRIED TO DO IT.

You can sit at home and think that because some on this board think wamu holding had over 100 billion in assets and because it is such a big number jpm will probably give some of them back, THEY WON'T WITHOUT A LEGAL FIGHT. By the way, the number is nowhere near 100billion, it's under a billion after liabilities are subtracted, sorry to break it to you.

Sorry, the truth hurts, and I guarantee I hate jpm more than most but I have never seen them lose.

all imo

fwh, you are right, fdic-r has 2.5 billion and an outstanding lawsuit for 10 billion and other lawsuits including about many from jpm suing fdick for liability coverage plus a few more. hmmm, that 2.5 billion ain't waterfalling down to escrows now are they. fact, 2.5 billion. no off balance sheet but nice try.

all imo

fwh, no kidding, that is why I am so heavily invested in wmih, well well beyond my escrow shares. I don't know if you did likewise but if so great, if you are only banking on the escrows and the wmih you get as part of por 7, oh well, you picked the wrong horse.

all imo

fwh, you are getting confused with a one line item in a 10Q and what it is reference to. Watch and learn what happens over the next few years when escrows still are out of the money and then I will see how many of the escrow dd'ers man up and say I was right. If I'm wrong I will do likewise.

You just want to stick to your guns without having a clue how the system works.

I don't know if you truly believe what you say or you are just hoping because it may make some sense to you that since assets were stolen and the big bad fdick and the big bad susman and the big bad hedgies and the big bad.... will force mean ole jpm to turn over what they have regarding holding company assets. Unfortunately, the holding company assets, are all gone, slice and diced and laundered and washed and commingled and given away are all gone, not traceable without 10 years of litigation just to get to discovery. jpm can out lawyer everyone because of there deep pockets, so lets just say there were 50billion in assets and jpm spends 2 billion fighting in court for the next 15 years, who is representing you and going to spend 2 billion to fight in court without a clear path to victory, can you say NO ONE AND THAT IS WHY JPM NEVER HAD ANY INTENTION OF TURNING OVER ANYTHING. Do you here any former wamu execs coming out of the woodwork saying that there was over 100 billion there, and jpm stole it, here is the smoking gun, do you hear a trustee stating that he is in the process of clawing back said assets to make everyone whole, no. These are all facts, game over, escrows out of the money, but for your and my sake I hope you are right and I am wrong, but I doubt it.

all imo

64, you brought it up, give me some color, I would appreciate your opinion.

thx

64, how has kkr already screwed wmih share holders. Not saying they haven't just curious on opinion how they did it.

all imo

spider, you have to be kidding, accountants hammering out the numbers, really.lol. JPM is just going to negotiate and turn over anywhere between 165 billion or 40 billion or 10 billion. All this is going to happen without a fight in court, sure it is. You don't understand how jpm does business especially when they are in control of the assets. Wow, how naive.

Would you like to buy that bridge to nowhere in Alaska, I will sell it to you cheap.

all imo

123, if you have escrows what choice do you have. if you are a wmih investors outside the escrow scenario, ie, added to your wmih position over time, you are in good shape. One disclaimer, that is if kkr doesn't try to screw wmih share holders.

all imo

fwh, you should have stated it just the opposite, after nothing happening for eight years, the likelihood of something good happening for escrow holders is slim or none.

all imo

willwin, you just don't get it yet, this will be a very valuable learning experience for you for the future should you want to invest in distressed debt or distressed equity.

The way you guys talk, the biggest news event since the financial crisis is going to occur when wamu escrow markers receive 10s or 100+ billion.

Why it won't happen, simple, jpm never gives up anything without a fight in the courts and guess what, no lawsuit ever filed on escrow holders behalf claiming jpm and fdick have anything that doesn't belong to them from the wamu deal. Oh yea, all off book, I continue to forget that 10s of billions are coming back under the table. Not even a remote possibility.

all imo

undie, you are starting to get it. It was all about the nol's, plan and simple.

many escrow dd'ers think that rosen was trying to set the table for the hedge funds to take ownership of wmih because there were all these hidden assets, ie, 150 billion. not at all, rosen was setting the table for the hedgies to buy into wmih for a couple hundred million at most which would allow them to control an minimum of 6 billion in nol's.

susman threw in the escrows as a small opportunity should some pittance money come back to the estate after debts/liability taken care of.

where do we stand now, wmih has a future, our escrows do not. precedence you say, there is none. if 10s, or even 100s (lol) of billions of wamu holding company assets were found and this is the key point, RETURNED, it would be the biggest financial news story since the financial crisis itself. Congregational hearings would happen, additional lawsuits would be filed, including some based on fraud allegations, etc..

If you are ignorant, I can see where you may be sucked into this escrow dd'ers game of 10s of billions in assets but if you have any understanding of bk's, political posturing, financial reporting, lawsuits, smoking guns, trustee fiduciary responsibility, the fdic, and last but not least, JPM, you would understand there is no possible way "real" money is coming to escrows. Will not happen, oh, one way is possible. How,

A HUGE LAWSUIT FILED BY ONE OF THE TOP 10 LAW FIRMS IN THE COUNTRY WITH HUGE DAMAGES CLAIMED BASE ON REAL FACTS AND A SMOKING GUN.

Until that happens, no way no how, sorry but our beloved escrows are out of the money with the jr's.

all imo

that's prudent, we should know if wmih is the real deal surely before the end of the year if not a lot sooner.

KKR, DON'T F WITH US, LOL

all imo

cast, it's a nice thought but wmih may run away from you and you may have to chase and chase. If I were you, I would wait until 4$ to enter, lol

all imo

bankz, so then why are you bashing wmih. The move to the naz is a major step in the right direction.

all imo

read the post again. I said just what you said, you are right, you do realize before yesterday we were a scam pink, oh, that's right, some call it the otcbb. I said since the move to nas, that settlement and naked shorting WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE.

sheesh,

all imo

they are insiders and know how to structure deals so the deal benefits them. I did my dd when I added large with wmih shares. since then, just a couple of things bother me.

They lost over 5 billion in less than 2 years. They were fined by the sec, both events happened in the past couple of months. the sec fine bothers me more.

who knows what they could do, the are very sophisticated.

it comes down to a matter of trust. so far i'm sticking with the game plan.

the uplisting is big

all imo

yes and no, it's a real exchange but on low volume is always a problem. all imo