Well said. Go WDRP...

I support your cause, my friend. No one would want us to engage with those shady guys. As soon as, we could cut the tie, the stock would jump for sure.

Having said that, if the product is real, would you leave it alone?

Their first POU model would likely be launched in Asia. I believe they may need to provide both voltages due to different local electrical standards. BTW, your assessment on voltage is great. I think we would need both voltages depending on the capacity.

Wanderport and Design 1st Inc. Agree to a New Mandate : 06/15/2011 @ 8:00AM

Wanderport Mandates Design 1st Inc. to Complete the Pre-Production Microwave Energy Tank-Less Water Heater 10/28/2010 @ 8:00AM

Great point. Just to add some more details on that, please read this PR from last year.

Wanderport Selects Engineering Partner for Completion of Its Microwave Energy Tank-Less Water Heater Prototype Date : 10/07/2010 @ 8:00AM

Is it really 100 percent? Have you read the fine print on those numbers? Wanderport unit would be 100 percent efficient, so do other electric and gas tankless water heater. As stated many times, those numbers have a lot of fine print. We need to know bunches of conditions they used to claim that high number.

I read his post twice, I don't think he said that at all.

Right on, Tony.

Good deal, I just want you to suggest me which part of the invention you are referring to.

If you look on Wanderport's website, this is the manufacturer in China Robert visited in 2010.

What Wanderport tries to hint is the water heater efficiency in the market is not actually 99 percent. Those numbers given out are misleading. That is how they could compete in that aspect. They have to prove that claim though.

I agree with you on that one, Beer. POU may be possible, but at higher flow it would be a slim chance. I learned from Wanderport that we should wait for the final specification. Until then the spec published is subject to be changed.

At the end of the day, it is merely space and time. We complicate stuff too much sometimes.

Who stated that ( and where ) then? You seem to come back to that several times. I am sure there are more than yourself who may be pretty comfortable with physics and thermodynamics around here.

May be so. The final specification would be released shortly.

My opinion is quite consistent with your analysis. It takes energy to generate heat, that is a given. I, too, do not anticipate much lower electricity usage on the unit. (Yes, I am still long on this one. LOL)

I have a chance to review the publication you refer to in the past. It is a decent publication. Having said that, I hope to see Wanderport unit performs 20+ percent better than the claimed number of 15C per KW @ 1 liter per minute @ 2.45 GHz. The reason being is the design you referred was based on 70 percent efficiency of the magnetron and they did not recycle the waste heat.

What Wanderport product brings to the table is a few more things-1) recycle the 20-25 percent waste heat from the magnetron, 2) adjust the wave pattern of microwave to gain higher microwave adsorption, 3) better configuration of heat exchanger with multi cavity chamber, resulting in thinner sheets of water and better energy adsorption. In other words, Wanderport tries close the gap and make the microwave water heater become marketable. If you see the design suggested in knoll link is comparable to other gas or electric tankless water heater, then we got a winner here.

I also agree with your take on the potential strength of the product, which would solve outstanding problems of existing tankless water heater (gas or electric)

1) lighter--no heavy copper coil. It uses ceramic heat exchanger, plus water itself adsorbs microwave energy and become heat exchanger,
2) Tankless water heater done right: anyone could google for the pros and cons of the existing tankless water heater. You could anticipate a true instantaneous water heater from microwave water heating better than what available in the market,
3) better service life: lower tendency to scale up: the chamber is pretty much an open chamber, much less surface for scale nucleation,
4) easier to install.

So, between the additional 20-25 percent improve efficiency comparing to other product in the market and all other mentioned advantages, I believe Wanderport would find its place in the water heater industry.

Great deal, I also do not think that Wanderport does anything more than just heat up the water within the boundary of that principle. My question to you is how many BTU or kwatts the electric or gas tankless water heater really used.

People mostly just go by what those manufacturers claim of their efficiency. May be the consumers should ask how many kwatts it really use?

Let's talk about this one. Please prove your claims, especially, which way does it violate law of physics and thermodynamics.

If they do give you that, would you have an opening for an assistant? LOL

I think that what they are aiming for. A fair comparison.

I mean that they have omitted several heat loss actually happened in the system, i.e. the heat compensation from scaling, flow change to ensure the consistent water temperature, heat residual, etc. You would not see those factors in their calculations. Their calculations would seem so simple. Several just base their analysis on MC Delta T. The fact is those calcs are somwhat misleading and there are some gap to make those basic physic happen in actuality with a dynamic condition.

Thanks for the calc. Anyhow, I was trapped there before, please expand your analysis to consider flowing water, heat transfer, and series of events when we operate the tankless water heater.

You may find the electric tankless water heater's little secret in the calc.

The magic energy efficiency of tankless microwave water heater would come from the not so magic energy efficiency claimed by the tankless water heaters in the market.

What if the 99 percent energy efficiency claimed in those tankless water heaters are incorrect and based on certain limited scope of conditions. For example,

1) An electric tankless water heater is notorious for its fluctuation of heat, so it normally need a pretty good temperature and flow control feature. It takes energy to feed their circuit board and electronic component, especially the fancy one to operate a flow paced feature.
2) During shower and several start-stop cycles of tankless water heater, when the unit is turned off, what happened to the heat left on the heating coil?
3) What about scaling? Does the energy efficiency claim base on a clean coil (immerse type)? If it is not immersed coil type, the energy loss would be even greater, don't you think?

Just to name a few. A common sense would wonder if those energy efficiency claims did take into account on those energy loss. Or they just give us an illusion by showing ONLY the watt amount used to heat the water within limited conditions. Robert has hinted in PRs and his email that energy efficiency claimed by electrical tankless water heaters were based on individual standard mostly. They should not be used as a benchmark.

I think we are not surprised about microwave water heater is not new. I ran across a few while dd the stock. However, the prior versions of on demand microwave water heater you mentioned were not quite marketable, because their energy efficiency was limited by the magnetron efficiency to convert electricity to microwave.

That's why i have been trying to explain to you and other posters that the bread and butter of this innovation is not that he invented microwave water heating or tankless water heater, BUT HOW HE COULD MAKE IT DO SO IN AN COMPARABLE EFFICIENCY MANNER OR BETTER THAN what available in the market. That is the reason that CONTINUOUS FLOW DEMAND CONTROLLED MICROWAVE WATER HEATER patent withdrawn does not matter. It is the innovative heat exchanger and how to control the pattern of the microwave to enhance the energy adsorption, resulting higher energy efficiency. That is the breakthrough and give them competitiveness.

If I do not make myself clear, please feel free to ask further. Several folks are quite new to this particular innovation.

Good finding. Thank you. Then it would be a good question to ask the company and Robert to respond to those findings for they mean by that. All I try to do is to put things in perspective, instead of perplexing the situation. Now you have a good argument to ask the question. Please ask that question to Wanderport.

One thing is where did they stated that and two it depends on when they stated it. If it happened before the application withdrawn, then it would be subject to debate for your concern.

His point exactly, but until other patent pending got published, the introductory section of this withdrawn application would serve well for the existence of the technology. Like he said, this application is pertaining to the older technology.

for his own firm, not Wanderport.

IMO, this perhaps depends on the chronological order of the event. If they were under the patent application process, it was not in their control of the outcome in most cases. However, my question to you would be if they need to have patents or intellectual property to get into an agreement. Evidently, Pulsar received an award for innovation in 2005 on microwave tankless water heater.

Thanks for doing that. ^^

That is exactly the reason Robert did not publish his in-house testing results and would wait for the third party testing lab to do it, otherwise, people would ask that very same question. They show us how the unit looks, but not the number in details, because the very same concern.

So far Design 1st and UL saw the unit, and work on the unit. If no working unit, UL will not be too concern to impose a safety standard, I do not think. If no unit, Design 1st will not put their name on the line for a no future project. Once we do receive the confirmation on that aspect, the pps would not be under 10 cents. When they appear on a tradeshow, we see the specification, picture, vdo clip the pps would be even higher.

My apology, it will be Dave Meyer UMI the US distributor for Wanderport in October's trade show.

I assumed that Wanderport would not mention Dave Meyer in the tradeshow in their recent letter, unless their product would be in the trade show too.

Ok....don't forget to provide us proof, when you plan to do that. Mid, you are a funny dude.

Oh sorry, let me read his letter again. LOL.

Wanderport in a Trade show in October!!, this is a huge deal. We will have loads of information-interviews, pictures, specifications, vdo clips of the products. This would be awesome. Go WDRP....

Meaning that it is pretty recent then. If someone publishes or presents within five years time, that would be considered as relevant and recent in a technical arena. Considering other presenters, this shows how much the industry recognized his decades of contribution.

I believe that Robert also aware of that, so he has been working with several experts in the past and now a top engineering firm like Design 1st to perfect his design and complete the project.

If you watch him from Dragon's den or talk to him personally, you could see his enthusiastic nature. He is witty and always think outside the box. Partially, I believed it may be because he was not trained or studied in engineering field. That is my take as an engineer myself. LOL.

Long time no see, barbaruba. I propose long investors to post their side of the story about the stock. The more the merrier. Share why you invest in this stock or something.

I think that too. I see all coming together. Go WDRP...