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With all the BK crap Gene is going through, if I were him, I would sell the mines, payoff the creditors, collect a royalty on the coal produced, and use that stream of income combined with remaining sale proceeds, and move on to the next venture. Too much time and effort going into negotiations. This would allow Quest a fresh start.
alot of short covering today, LOL
1. PaulBunyon - Quest is producing raw coal. The production numbers Gene uses is raw coal. What they get paid for is clean coal. That ratio changes as they get further into the seam. So all these revenue calculations need to be based on clean coal.
2. In terms of the Logan purchase order. Even if Gwenco has not met the production terms, Logan will gladly buy as much coal as Gwenco can produce. There is the demand. The purpose of purchase orders is to set a purchase price and allows L&K to match purchases with sell orders it has with end users (utilities). Gwenco is not the first, nor will be the last, not to meet purchase order requirements.
3. These mines are the real thing. Although, in comparison to other mines, it is like a "mom and pop". But like all businesses, it takes money to make money. These workers need to be paid and equipment needs to purchased and maintained.
The real issue for Gene, is holding the creditors at bay until the mines start generating cash flow. This will be the juggling act as the creditors will want most of the initial cash flow for debt repayment, leaving Gene to operate on a "shoe string". Tough to do when you are buying equipment and trying to open up another mine.
This is where the judge will come into play. The judge will realize that it is in the best interest of the creditors that Gwenco produce cash, and in order to do so, Gene has to retain some of the cash flow to operate the business.
Finally, I would agree with a previous poster that the creditors have stepped up there offense, knowing the mines are a valuable asset. However, if they are smart, they will realize that there is more liklihood of getting repaid if Gene continues to operates the mines, rather than forcing a sale. A sale would result in little money compared to what the mines will produce over the next few years.
While I don't share the optimism of some, I do agree with Wally in regards to finger pointing. I invested based on my own DD. I knew there were things that didn't make sense and didn't walk away from the second investor meeting with a ton of confidence. There were too many unanswered questions. Still I invested, albeit at an average of .015.
While reading every post, including all the pumps and shills, I always took those with a grain of salt.
I got myself into this investment and can blame no one but me. Wally is right, go to any message board and you will have pumpers with what is supposed to be good info (possible "inside" info).
As far as some earlier pumpers, there is a possibility that some were posting on behalf of the company or Weiss. Although, some may have cut their losses and went silently into the night. Don't know, don't really care. It is what it is.
The only people that can shed light on this situation the three stooges. But we should not publicly point fingers or ask motives of those that post info. I don't want to discourage any info flow.
Pedro:
Have no pm capability, but in regards to your topic, jury is still out on that one.
Pedro:
I made sure the appropriate SEC people have been alerted.
Pedro:
I did notice that, ironically, Interstellar is run out of Tarun's house in Weston, CT. He did the same distancing act as a "funder" for USXP. He had the unregistered USXP shares put in his relative names.
Cdnkid:
Let me clarify. I said when docs are manually (i.e. paper form) submitted to the court, that it might take a couple of days to scan into the system, if scanned at all.
The overwhelming majority of doc's are electronically submitted and show up on Pacer almost instantaneously. At the end of each document is a listing of who is to be notified. I believe Pacer sends out an alert to each person listed on the document. The law assumes that each person on the list is "officially" noticed. It is the responsibility for each "noticed" person to pull the doc off Pacer.
In this regard, everyone gets noticed at the same time and Pacer users can see the doc at the same time.
I only know this having followed USXP and its filings for several years.
Sometimes I just laugh at the conspiracy theories posted on these boards. Let me address the Pedro/Pacer/Zoho issue.
Pedro, like me, has a Pacer account. Yes, it does cost money, I think it is 8 cents a page that you pay once you rack up $10. You need to know what type of court (BK) and district, as well as, case number.
The filings hit Pacer in a relatively quick manner. Usually, all filings are electronic and when the court receives the electronic documents it is trasmitted to for viewing on Pacer as well. If a filing is made manually, (i.e. sending in documents), it does take a few days for the clerk's office to scan the docs into the system. Alternatively, depending on their relevance, they may not be scanned in at all.
Once a doc is on Pacer, it can downloaded and subsequently uploaded to ZOHO or any other media that allows documents sharing. I find ZOHO very user friendly, anonymous and free.
IMO, Pedro has no inside info, just knows where to look and is willing to shell out a few bucks for the due dili.
If you separate the negative sentiment from the due dili, I think you could really benefit from Pedro's posts.
In the true blue docs, it is stated that they have water sources in Canada and France. The one in france has access to some body of water by the French gov't.
IMO, they were setting up True Blue to be a middle man for Aquagold and suck all the profits into it versus running them through AQUI. I am lead to this conclusion as True Blue, per the docs, is said to be representing other water brands. In fact, per the doc, they classify Aquagold water under "Mass Market", while the other brands and classified as "Premium Brands".
Just to add some subtext, the debtor (in this case Gwenco) can not offer an acceptable plan, one option the creditors have is to move to end Gwenco's exclusivity period. Meaning outside parties can offer their own restructuring plan which may be more favorable to creditors.
On another topic, my hope was that a substantial number of convertibles were converting, unfortunately, based on the slight increase in liabilities, this does not appear to be happening. But the o/s appears to heading north to fund operations.
My guess is that part of the liability increase is due to the default rate of interest being charged by the crook, Medriatta on the DIP financing. The interest rate went from 12 to 17%. While interest may not have been paid, interest expense has to be accrued.
The next two months are make it or break it for Gene. If he can make it until the mines start producing cash, then it should be uphill from there.
Head of Enforcement for SEC:
George Curtis <CurtisG@sec.gov>
Will be interesting to see how the three stooges handle this situation. Do they capitulate and say this is the best avenue? Or do they just go away, never to be heard from again.
ABCD:
I am a freebie so I cant pm you. But if you go to
http://www.zoho.com/
Over to the right of the page is a box (Utilities, select ZOHO Viewer and it will walk you through the process. Takes 3-5 minutes and it gives you a generic link for the uploaded documents.
abcde:
I am surprised that they did not have you sign a Confidentialty or Non Disclosure Agreement.
Anyway, thanks for the due diligence.
It seems like I am the only one not getting the info. Not sure why, I went to the second shareholder meeting and have been among the more vocal critics of the three stooges. Can some at least look in to Zoho.com and see how easy it is to post all the documents for everyone to see. And you can do it anonymously.
abcde:
Go to zoho.com. If you email me at logis_tics@yahoo.com. I will put all the documents on zoho and provide the link for all to see.
I am a freebie, so thanks for the pm
can some one email it to me at logis_tics@yahoo.com.
for raw coal. Then it goes to the wash plant (which charges a fee) and out comes some percentage of the raw coal into "clean coal" which is sold to L&K at $95+/ton.
sorry, here is the link
http://zoho.com/
It would easier to post the documents using zoho.com
go to this link and over to the right, click on zoho viewer, you can upload the documents and it will give you a web based link that everyone can see.
please email me the info at logis_tics@yahoo.com
Thank you for all your due dili
I guess the shorts have taken the day off. Maybe tomorrow
ABCD:
So let me get this straight. Aquagold is still in existence. Under this proposed plan, Iroquis is out of the picture, as is aquagold spring water. Instead, Aquagold will sign a contract with trueblu to distribute this new water in china. Trueblu will source and bottle the water for delivery to Aquagold, which in turn will sell it to china.
And trueblu has no bottling capability at this time. The proposed investment was for capitalizing Trueblu and it would (question) fund purchase of bottling equipment? What was the $2 million for?
Was there ever any mention of continuing on with Woolong?
All right, I am confused. So pauly two fingers and danny boy started a new company to distribute a different brand of water? What about Woolong? Aquagold?
DC:
Behind which doors? the ones in Asia, Canada,Arizona?
IMO, they have accomplished the reverse split. Paychest will used as the real operating company and the Flushaway division will wither away. Essentially a 200:1 reverse split.
Roller:
Your on the right track in terms of valuation. However:
1. Logan & Kanawha pays QMNM for clean coal. Your cost estimates are based on "raw" coal. The element you are missing is how much the wash plant charging and the conversion rate between the raw coal and clean coal.
2. These small companies rarely trade on valuation.
3. The valuation should always be based on fully diluted shares not O/S. With the number of convertibles done, even when we get a new 10Q, it will be dated. How much of the recently issued shares were for conversions vs. new funding.
Maybe the lawyers need to sell all the shares they were paid in prior to releasing the spin off pr. Just a thought.
And you? You have tried to commit fraud. Claiming you see trucks and rail containers with USXP on them. Shows your ignorance. The name you are seeing is a publicly traded company US Express. Nothing to do with USXP although RA did try to high jack a analyst report for US Express. The report projected a price of $26/share. Naturally, the fraud man PR'd it, knowing it was a mistake.
Pure:
I have been following your arguement for the last few days. the only point that you have that "may" have standing is the voting issue. However, in the penny space, I cannot recall anything being put out for a shareholders vote. Can you?
If not, you should take your arguement to the big board stocks
Imagine that, Companies claiming NSS, selling unregistered shares:
Anti-Short Crusaders Accused Of Illegal Sales
By Carol S. Remond
31 July 2008
Dow Jones News Service
(c) 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
Brent Pierce and Grant Atkins, two Canadian citizens who were central in crafting an anti-short-selling campaign back in 2002, are now accused of violating federal securities registration laws.
According to a cease-and-desist order issued by the Securities and Exchange Commission Thursday, Pierce, Atkins and a now bankrupt company named Lexington Resources Inc. illegally sold stock without properly registering it with the commission.
The SEC alleges that stock promoter Pierce and his associates spearheaded a massive promotional campaign to pump the stock and improperly resell it to the public through an account at an unidentified offshore bank. The SEC alleges that the illegal sales generated proceeds of "over $13 million."
Atkins declined to comment or provide the name of his lawyer. Pierce couldn't immediately be reached. A recording on a Swiss cellphone listed for Newport Capital Corp., a firm for which Pierce is a director and officer, advised callers to try later.
Atkins and Pierce have 20 days to reply to the allegations in the SEC order.
The two have been involved with several small-cap companies over the years. Back in 2002, Atkins and Pierce were associated with Investor Communications International Inc., a Blaine , Wash. , promotional firm that was a large investor in a budding pharmaceutical company named GeneMax Corp.
In a move designed to hamper short sellers who were taking bearish bets on the company, GeneMax that year attempted to exit the global electronic settlement system managed by the Depository Trust & Clearing Corp., or DTCC.
The campaign to exit DTCC gained some support among small companies, mostly trading on the over-the-counter bulletin board, that believed they were subject to illegal short selling. But the move was later defeated by the SEC, which ruled that investors, not companies, should decide whether to hold securities in electronic or physical format.
Atkins, who had been president of the shell company used to take GeneMax public, was a director of the company and a consultant for ICI. Meanwhile, Pierce was identified as a shareholder, "controlling person" and president of ICI in two filings with the SEC.
Making Popular 'Naked Shorts'
In September 2002, GeneMax filed lawsuits against two Canadian brokerage firms, alleging stock manipulation. A month later, the company filed suit against various broker-dealers in the U.S. , accusing them of illegal, or naked, short selling.
Both suits were later dismissed. But the suit filed in federal court soon became a model in a still-ongoing legal campaign against DTCC and brokerage firms accused by some companies of facilitating abusive short selling.
Several of these suits have been dismissed over the years. Most recently, online discounter Overstock.com (OSTK), Canadian companies Biovail Corp. (BVF) and Fairfax Financial Holdings (FFH) filed suits in state courts alleging some form of abusive short selling. Those suits are ongoing.
(The term "naked short selling" gained prominence earlier this month after SEC Chairman Christopher Cox used it to explain the adoption of an emergency order to protect 17 financial institutions and mortgage behemoths Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE) from investors betting against their stocks. Short sellers typically borrow stock in the hope of profiting when the price of the security goes down. Short-selling without borrowing the stock has been dubbed naked short selling.)
This is hardly the first time that an insider who claimed that his company was victim of illegal short selling is accused of improperly selling stock.
In 2005, the SEC sued Gary Valinoti, alleging that the former chief executive officer of Jag Media Holdings Inc. (JAGH) engaged in unregistered sales and transfers of securities. Without admitting or denying the SEC allegations, Valinoti agreed to settle the charges and consented to a final judgment that permanently enjoins him from violating securities laws. Under the deal, Valinoti agreed to disgorge about $2.9 million in illicit gains and to pay $1.39 million in pre-judgment interests.
Jag Media, like GeneMax, had sued brokerage firms it accused of manipulating its stock. That suit was also dismissed.
Same goes for Universal Express Inc. (USXP), another self-proclaimed poster child of the abuse of naked short selling. The SEC sued Universal Express and Chief Executive Richard Altomare in 2004, accusing them of selling 500 million unregistered shares into the market, using erroneous press releases to prop the company's stock price.
The company went into receivership last year and Altomare recently served several months in jail for failing to pay his share of a $21.9 million fine imposed by the SEC.
All fine examples of companies and insiders complaining of naked short selling whom Chairman Cox might want to consider before extending his restrictive short-selling order to other securities.
(Carol S. Remond is an award-winning columnist who won a Gerald Loeb Award in 2005 for best news service content with "Exposing Small-Cap Fraud," a series of articles that described how three small companies unscrupulously pumped up their stocks.)
-By Carol S. Remond; Dow Jones Newswires; 303-997-5783 ; carol.remond@dowjones.com
Poop:
Please lighten up a little. I think all longs, especially Banana, know that the future is highly suspect. No need to constantly repeat the incompetence of prior management and CES.
Hands is the one offering these little tidbits. I don't think anyone on this board, and there are maybe 20, believe any of it. I dont even own the stock and am tire of hearing about the letter. I am sorry I posted it.
I think management thought they could come in and and do a slide show with all the things sword boy was doing in China, and we would be impressed. Jmark gave him a piece of mind, which took them back. Danny boy appeared sympathetic, but Pauly two fingers was defiant again quoting "no of you have invested in AQUI, you all invested in the predecessor company. We have not benefited from $1 of your money".
I reminded Pauly that in the future, should you need to raise capital for growth, it would be us, the shareholders, that would be asked to pony up. He agreed and said there may be that opportunity down the road.
Maybe Tom has to wait until the market closes to announce the spin off because it is so huge. Maybe Paypal realized they couldn't compete with PYCT's technology and they are buying it for some obscene dollar amount.
I guess we have to wait until the market closes. T-51 minutes.
Syracuseo:
I wish us both good luck. I have heard "rumors" and I repeat "rumors" that the boys are developing a new business plan that will differ from the China experiment.
I have heard this from 3 sources. Not sure what to think about it.
Gets me thinking about what Lochan posted regarding his conversation with Danny boy. If I recall, Danny said that he was looking at other asian countries in case they hit a roadblock in China. I didn't think anything of it at the time due to the solid relationship with Woolong.
But maybe there is a hint in there. Or maybe, I am just adding to speculation. Don't know more than anyone else.
Hey Sidney,
Good to hear from you, I am still invested as well. Saw you on another board (lotto play), i got in to that as well, but exited near the top. Not good enough to ever tell where the top is.
Good luck
I was later informed he was one of the shell owners, forget which one.
Yes, I recall. I think you asked Weiss if the big asian investors were attending as promised.
If you go back to my posts, i described my thoughts. But in summary, I thought Sword man was all talk, Danny boy was intelligent and understanding of shareholders plight, Pauly two fingers was smart but arrogant.
The meeting started an hour late with Weiss trying to keep everyone happy discussing the opportunity. The presentation was mostly sword man with a slide show of all they have done in China. I kept interupting the presentation to ask about whether they ever shipped water (yes, for testing), cost of the water from the spring, cost of bottling, etc.
As I had another appointment, I had to leave early and didn't get to ask all the relevant question, such as financing arrangements.
The shell operators were there as well, one of which I thought was security (a large african american man). Turns out he was one of the shell owners.
No one on the management team appreciated my line of questioning and interupting sword mans presentation, which I thought was all fluff.
Frankly, I had hoped for alot more then we have been given.