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Artguy - your posts are a joy to read. Very well written and, as always, most poignant.
Just a couple comments in general...
I have read a bit, shivered a couple times, and patted everyone on the back in my happy little brain last night and today, and I must say that it feels like someone either won a big race or somehow found a cure for cancer or something. Um, yes I know, the two are not quite on the same level of importance, but you get the point...
It's kind of strange, but when reading the post from Mr. Gleasman I found myself feeling very humbled at the end of it - sort of a "Micky Mouse in the Sorcerer's Apprentice" kind of a feel. But I really like this reaction when we haven't really even started yet. Things are in the works but not a reality just yet. Imagine when the papers that are signed are more than confidentiality agreements!
Ahh, the power of words: the confidence that was built with a couple pages of comforting text and a brief spanking drove the price up 37%. Tough love ain't bad sometimes...
I hope this does not become some kind of "let's add up the dollars in sales to see the value of the company and determine the share price" board with all the stupid bashers and pumpers and nonsense. None of that applies in this company, as far as valuating the stock price, as we are simply waiting for Torvec to do their business. OK, maybe not none, but certainly not very much, as this is not an emotion driven equity. There is more to the equation than that - much more. Those variables will make us money and the amount will be determined by their performance individually and as a team. I think they are doing well so far. I trust in my own research into the company, using my own individual methodology which in turn allows me to know that my investment is sound regardless of the recent, and even the current, share price.
However, those CV joint numbers are great and not to be ignored when talking about the sale price and manufacturing cost and the benefit analysis, but when a deal is made and a cost is actually applied, it can vary greatly from the original speculated or even desired asking price. Pre-calculating what a deal will render is slightly more valuable than asking one of my local psychics for the answer who, by the way, are strangely prevalent in this part of New Jersey...
Anyone who read this memo posted on the Torvec site will know that there is no reason not to trust in what those who have gotten us here are continuing to do - focus on highest quality, superior methodology and commitment to maximizing the overall gains in all aspects of their business practice. They are smart people, they keep us informed to the best extent they can, and I agree that we can all do well by enjoying the confidence in our investment - even during seemingly long quiet periods. My deepest respect goes out to those of you who have been here from the beginning as doubt can be a tough one to fight sometimes, but I guess the reason you are all still here is because of your trust in their true potential.
Those on this board have been a wealth of sanity and good information, and when things get exciting I hope the atmosphere remain the same. The previous location turned into a playground sandbox, and remains so from what I can see...
Enough already - time to start the grill. No, I am not pushing a button, I am actually pouring charcoal into a Weber and dousing it with lighter fluid...
-Neb
Right on, Big A, and let's not forget that they were big supporter of the "kill the stock spam" campaign (for lack of a better term) as they deemed it unethical. Any pink that deems this behavior as unethical is not any ol' pinkie scam.
I will dig out a link...stand by...
-Neb
Thanks!
*wiping the drool with my sleeve*
Quiet period. Nice.
A well written bit of prose, and a marvelous spanking for those in need.
I like the sound of every word.
-Neb
Only 350...?
It doesn't matter if the stock price is one million dollars per share or one ten thousandth of a penny per share if there are no buyers. All value is zero at that point.
I am speculating that we are all speculating about what we can only speculate about. Until the numbers are spoken from the ones who can legally speak them, we shall not know and this remains what it has been from the begining -a lotto play.
Although it is kind of like using your kid's birthdays for your numbers - gotta special feeeeeeeling about this one... ;)
-Neb
*gulp*
-Neb
Thanks, lifegear.
-Neb
And I see I am incorrect on WHO is incorporated in Nevada - thanks, lifegear!
OK, just the same - it doesn't belong in the "pro" column, although it really doesn't AUTOMATICALLY put it in the "con" column either. So let's just not mention it at all...
:P
-Neb
Good logic indeed, ciccio, but I must disagree with one and only one point. It seems that many feel that incorporating in Nevada is a good thing. It may be a good thing for those wishing to "skirt the regs", if you will, but it is not always good for shareholders.
This is not to say that all companies who are incorporated in Nevada are bad, but there is a greater chance for questionable behavior that may be detrimental to an investor. I am not going to get into specifics, although it would make a lovely discussion sometime, but suffice it to say that being a Nevada corporation does not hold the same weigh as, say, a Delaware corporation. So if you want this list to be the most influential one on the board, I would humbly suggest removing just that one item. Anyone who is or has been in business as a little guy may see that as a negative.
So you know, I am not flipping about as many are here. I have my small collection of shares and they ride free for however long this thing takes to either grow up or go down the crapper. I was lucky enough to get in at .0001 and .0002 and my investment is safely tucked into another high risk situation... ;)
I am hoping for the success of this company, as I really dig free money, and I would love to see us all retire early. Or at least earliER...
-Neb
Have a happy day!
-Neb
OK, this is bizarre but it is absolutely true. My sister worked at city hall and there was a summer program for teens that she was in charge of at the time. It was spring. I overheard her on the phone one day while I was waiting for her to be done so we could go to lunch one day.
The applications for the hundred or so city youth positions were rolling in. Some would mail them, and some would bring them in themselves after school, and put them in a special mail box on the first floor of the building. An interview was required, and was scheduled at the student's convenience - they would just call ahead with their time and show up. They could do it on the same day, or they could submit the application first and then have the interview later.
As I paced outside the small office I heard one end of her phone call. It was a student asking how the process works, and after explaining it to them a couple times to be sure they understood she said, "So just stick it in and let me know when you are coming."
20 years ago it happened, and we still laugh at it today...
-Neb
The man is my hero. Good post, Dr.!
-Neb
That's OK, I was at the butcher counter at the back of the grocery store trying to decide what I wanted to cook on the grill when the butcher asked if he could help me and I replied, "Not just yet, I want to check out your meat first."
-Neb
That is the smartest thing posted on this - or any other board - EVER!!!!!!!
Thank you for your rationality.
But yes, this is incredibly addictive fun!!
Um, sorry, misterbet - a bit of a late reply, but I am just wading through all the posts - I think there are more posts than shares in the float...
It's the lottery, kids - take a chance...but don't bet what you can't lose!
Happy trading tomorrow!
-Neb
Here is the information from Network Solutions in reference to the current registration of the winstedholdings.com web site. Anyone can look this up on the web -it's public. the "as of" date is January 2007, so it may get updated at one point, or maybe they just decided to leave the ownership as it is and did not include the domain name as a part of the deal. The ownership of the domain will expire in March of 2008.
Look who is still listed as the owner. I am sorry if this brings back any bad memories...
I would guess this will be updated soon?...
Oh, and by the way, the hosting IP address is 216.158.105.55
I apologize in advance for this very "techie" post. I am an IT guy, so I really get off on this stuff...
Awwwwww....GEEK OUT!!!!
Visit AboutUs.org for more information about WINSTEDHOLDINGS.COM AboutUs: WINSTEDHOLDINGS.COM
Registrant: Make this info private
Ellis, Mark
53 Canal
Irvine, CA 92620
US
Domain Name: WINSTEDHOLDINGS.COM
Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
Ellis, Mark
mellis@indiginet.com
53 Canal
Irvine, CA 92620
US
Phone: 949-275-5800
Fax: 949-502-8870
Record expires on 01-Mar-2008
Record created on 01-Mar-2005
Database last updated on 08-Mar-2007
Domain servers in listed order: Manage DNS
NS2.DYNAMIC.NET
NS1.DYNAMIC.COM 199.201.213.40
Show underlying registry data for this record
Current Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
IP Address: 216.158.105.55 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-CALIFORNIA-ALISO VIEJO
Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: IIS 6
Lock Status: clientTransferProhibited
Web Site Status: Active
DMOZ no listings
Y! Directory: see listings
Secure: No
E-commerce: No
Traffic Ranking: Not available
Data as of: 29-Jan-2007
-Neb
I see. So whatever ratio they determine, my Scottrade account will show a new holding in the list of equities I currently have? Sounds too good to be true!
Thanks for the explanation kermit42, and the others who answered it for me...
-Neb
So does this mean we have to actually purchase the spin off's stock or does our current holdings become more valuable? I am not really sure what this PR indicates for us as shareholders. If anyone can put this into a concise paragraph in layman's terms for me and the many others who likely are wondering the same thing, please do so.
And thanks, VOIP, you were right on!!
-Neb
A good point, as well, Torvecian, and it is hard to say whether the bill is passed, as the terminology requires more research in my opinion. There were some statements in the article that implied some if it may already be in place as there are over 1.2 million already posted on the internet.
I am not familiar with the differences between a patent that is "localized" to only our country and a "global patent". Is there some kind of global patent office or is it just another higher status to allow litigation in other countries? How could this be with all the different countries and governments and political motivations? As we still don't have any kind of global ruling body, how could it possibly work?
Yes, Sir, strange world indeed. However, Jupiter is far less hospitable... ;)
-Neb
Leitrim - I like the analogy you painted. Allnumbers had a good point as well, showing our hypocrisy, or perhaps just our stupidity, when he said that we are building fences around ourselves while we are giving blanket access to all our potential economically beneficial ideas. It's bad enough we have spent over a TRILLION dollars on a military conflict that will pay back absolutely zero returns, and will cost us ten times that for many years down the road. What are the implications for us in that regard? I don't mean to be political here, and I do not care what side anyone is on, but the reality is that we have spent and spent and spent. I learned in kindergarten that you can't spend more than you have. And if we send all out ideas out to other countries to steal and produce, then haven't we done a two fold insult to our futures? No return on the investment, and less chance of making it up in other ways, like manufacturing new technologies. My point is that someone will have to pay for this, and you can bet it will be you and I in the very near future - this can't last forever...
Back to the legislation: Yes, the negotiations are likely not at risk in any way, but my fear lies more with the future if there is no opportunity in the near future. There would be some kind of "overlap" where the potential buyer could simply drop out of the commitment and wait 18 months and discover the technology and attempt to build it themselves, which as we all know would be stealing and completely unethical. I do not think they necessarily could reproduce anything, but that risk is there.
That is my real concern. I have not called them to speak, as I am a big fan of looking people in the eye and seeing their body language, etc. My next trip home, which should be in a couple months, will afford me the opportunity to meet them in person for the first time. I do look forward to that.
-Neb
A bit scary indeed, allnumbers.
Although it is not a total gloom and doom scenario, I wonder if time is not on our side when thinking about holding out for the sale of the technology. Perhaps a lower share price would be acceptable to us as shareholders. I know we are certainly hoping for the Eaton type buyout, but perhaps we should lower our expectations a bit and take a lower price while minimizing the risk of losing everything to someone less ethical. (OK, it hurts to type the words "lower our expectations" - I am still standing strong, but this is something worth discussing...)
I know nothing about what the Gleasmans are doing behind the scenes, and I do continue to trust in their action, but are they thinking about this type of thing? Again, they are much smarter in business than I...
If something horrible came to pass where a crook in another country, let alone our own country, were to pirate the patent and develop their own version there would be so much litigation that just the time it would take to get through it would ruin any chance of recovery. Law suits are one thing, but holding the technology is another. A bird in the hand, if you will...
As it is quiet and no one really knows what is transpiring, I still find it difficult to make an assessment. I think this article describing this insane legislation brings to light something that ALL inventors and inventors should be aware of. It may very well change the road that inventors take. Much development in the world is based on collaboration and discovery, but now ideas will be kept so close to the chests that they may no longer want to take advantage of that concept. And they may not be able to develop any kind of public company value, which many startups use to get their ideas out there to begin with, as they can not talk about the technology and therefore not get investors. Saying "We have multiple patents" will not be a statement heard very often anymore, as they ideas will be public in a year and a half, which is not long enough to fully develop, test, and market anything of significance.
It is a catch 22, in my opinion, and it demonstrates once again how out of touch our legislators can be sometimes.
$50 per share is nice, and $75 is better, but $20 is good and $0 is just plain no fun. I am not a pusher of those who run this great company, and I would never say "hurry up", as I believe in most any environment slow and steady wins the race (never heard me say THAT before) but sometimes I also see the dark side of business and how ruthless it can be (where's Ruth?). And with all the developments in China and the questionable business practices that exist in what is STILL A COMMUNIST COUNTRY with all it's human rights abuses and thievery, this does not bode well with me. We let a Chinese company in to see the goods. Was this a good move or did we let the fox into the hen house?
You all know I am very supportive of the Gleasmans and my own small investment, and I have as much faith as ever in Torvec, but this legislation could easily have impact on us in the future.
The world is changing faster than ever, my friends. It's tough to keep up!!
-Neb
I wonder if this effects us in any way?
This is a link to an article, and I have posted the content below it. It can be found in multiple locations - search for: Globalists Plan to Give Away U.S. Patents
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=195649
Title: Globalists Plan to Give Away U.S. Patents ( Schlafly-technological lead affected)
Source: Eagle Forum
URL Source: http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2007/aug07/07-08-01.html
Published: Jul 31, 2007
Author: Phyllis Schlafly
Post Date: 2007-07-31 23:53:28 by out damned spot
Ping List: *SOVEREIGNTY--CFR-NAU-NWO*
1 Comments
In extraordinary Senate-House coordination, the two Judiciary committees in the same week voted out a bill (S.1145 and H.R.1908) which, if it becomes law, will spell the end of America's world leadership in innovation. Called the Patent Reform Act, it is a direct attack on the unique, successful American patent system created by the U.S. Constitution. Prior to 1999, the U.S. Patent Office was required to keep secret the contents of a patent application until a patent was granted, and to return the application in secret to the inventor if a patent was not granted. That protected the legal rights of the inventor, who could then go back to the drawing board to perfect his invention and try again.
A mischievous congressional "reform" in 1999 authorized the U.S. Patent Office to shift to the Japanese and European practice of publishing patent applications 18 months after filing whether or not a decision is yet made on granting a patent. Congress allowed a patent application, under certain conditions, to be exempt from the publication requirement, but the default procedure is to publish.
The 2007 Patent bill would delete this exemption and require publication of all patent applications 18 months after filing even though a decision has not yet been made on granting a patent.
By 2006, the U.S. Patent Office had placed 1,271,000 patent applications on the internet, giving access to anyone anywhere in the world. This foolish practice created a gold mine for China to steal U.S. innovations and get to market quickly.
Chinese pirates don't roam the high seas looking for booty but sit at their computers, roam the internet, and steal the details of U.S. inventions that the U.S. Patent Office loads online. This practice became China's R&D program, and it is even more efficient than China's network of industrial and military spies.
U.S. policy has always been to grant a patent to the first one who actually invents something. But the new Patent bill would change to the foreign system which grants patents to the first one to file papers.
First-to-file would be a windfall to the megacorporations and a big disadvantage to the small-entity inventor. First-to-file would invite an avalanche of applications from the big companies that have the resources to grind out multiple filings, and the small inventor would be lost in the shuffle.
The new Patent bill offers yet another way for patent pirates to steal our technology. It's called post-grant review: a plan to make it easier to challenge patents during the entire life of the patent.
Another provision of the new Patent bill would shift decision-making about damages for patent infringement from market valuations to judgments by judges and juries. This would increase litigation and limit the ability of independent inventors and small companies to enforce their rights or to win just compensation from those who infringe their rights.
The new Patent bill would also transfer unprecedented rule-making authority to the Patent office. That's an abdication of congressional responsibility.
Add it all up, and it is clear that the new Patent bill is a big attack on the constitutional property rights of individual inventors and small enterprises, the very kind of entrepreneurs who give us our most important innovations. About a third of all patent applications are filed by individual inventors, small companies, universities, and non-profit groups.
The common thread in the changes to be made by the new Patent bill is that they favor big companies like Microsoft and hurt individual and small-entity inventors.
Microsoft has thousands of patents, and recently argued that the free GNU/Linux operating system infringes over 200 of them. Microsoft wants to be able to use its huge patent portfolio to intimidate potential competitors, and at the same time it wants it to be easier to knock out individual patents.
If Congress wants to do something constructive for our patent system, Congress should reinstate the rule that the Patent Office may not publish a patent application until a patent is granted, and if it is denied the application must be returned to the inventor with his secrets intact.
Congress should also give back to the Patent Office the flow of fees paid by inventors, which Congress took away in 1999 to spend on other projects. Then the Patent Office can hire more examiners and reduce its backlog of 800,000 applications.
The U.S. patent system is the vital factor in the technological lead that gives us the edge over competitors and enemies. We must not let the globalists destroy it.
Any thoughts?
-Neb
And I third them. Perhaps off topic, but I read this this morning and it kind of sums up what might be a good response to Dread's feelings, which we all share in one way or another.
Thanks for all you do, and none of us should forget what is really important in life.
*ahem*
One day, the father of a very wealthy family took his son on a trip to the country with the express purpose of showing him how poor people live.
They spent a couple of days and nights on the farm of what would be considered a very poor family.
On their return from their trip, the father asked his son, "How was the trip?"
"It was great, Dad."
"Did you see how poor people live?" the father asked.
"Oh yeah," said the son.
"So, tell me, what did you learn from the trip?" asked the father.
The son answered:
"I saw that we have one dog and they had four.
We have a pool that reaches to the middle of our garden and they have a creek that has no end.
We have imported lanterns in our garden and they have the stars at night.
Our patio reaches to the front yard and they have the whole horizon.
We have a small piece of land to live on and they have fields that go beyond our sight.
We have servants who serve us, but they serve others.
We buy our food, but they grow theirs.
We have walls around our property to protect us, they have friends to protect them."
The boy's father was speechless.
Then his son added, "Thanks Dad for showing me how poor we are."
Isn't perspective a wonderful thing? Makes you wonder what would happen if we all gave thanks for everything we have, instead of worrying about what we don't have.
Have a great day, everyone.
-Neb
Funny stuff, Micro Man!!
Yup - get out of pinkie land if you can't stand the...um...color....
;)
-Neb
I suppose in that perspective, yes. I just hope it does not hurt those who can not yet afford the high costs of proper reporting. Just give the little guy a chance to get there without killing them first. I just know there are those less patient who will blindly follow and not research fully. But, I guess, that happens anyway...
You have a good point, though.
I would fight for a better SEC before encouraging "taking the law into our own hands"...
-Neb
I'm not involved in your discussion, but what a great response!!!!!
"you know it was Russian Hackers that hijacked JR's account on IHub and posted that message!"
I had heard that from time to time from Scottrade when they deny access to a trade. Great stuff!
:P
-Neb
Don't worry, shortsinthesand, please refer to post 10287.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=21720103
I hope the link works...
Keep it real!
-Neb
Most honorable, coming from you.
*bowing graciously*
Have a great day!
-Neb
Thanks, hitemp. Historical moment for me. I got chills...
*beam*
-Neb
What is WITH this new site - everyone is reading it like it is the table of contents for what to buy. All these stupid "stop signs" and "yield signs" are simply stating the level of reporting they do. THAT IS ALL!! True, it is a consideration when doing the research, but by no means is this the only thing to consider when investing. Many great successful companies started out pink to get themselves going.
There are so many people that will be swayed by this. I kind of think it is similar to bashing or pumping without really bashing or pumping, in a way - some will not look beyond the "sign". I put this in the category of naked shorting, as this could have such a negative effect on a company that they may not be able to survive just because they could not afford to do the expensive reporting required just to rate a "yield sign". The damage could be extensive based on ONLY ONE COMPONENT of a good solid company.
I have seen this site mentioned many times in recent days. I hope it does not last, although the many sheep that graze here will likely keep it alive.. It would over simplify people's decisions and that could have dire consequences.
Let's be smart investors - the more of us there are, the better off we are. Don't let a road sign tell you how to invest. Might just as well use your magic 8 ball and save the cost of an internet connection...
Use that thing in your head - and I don't mean your nose... ;)
-Neb
What is WITH this new site - everyone is reading it like it is the table of contents for what to buy. All these stupid "stop signs" and "yield signs" are simply stating the level of reporting they do. THAT IS ALL!! True, it is a consideration when doing the research, but by no means is this the only thing to consider when investing. Many great successful companies started out pink to get themselves going.
There are so many people that will be swayed by this. I kind of think it is similar to bashing or pumping without really bashing or pumping, in a way - some will not look beyond the "sign". I put this in the category of naked shorting, as this could have such a negative effect on a company that they may not be able to survive just because they could not afford to do the expensive reporting required just to rate a "yield sign". The damage could be extensive based on ONLY ONE COMPONENT of a good solid company.
I have seen this site mentioned many times in recent days. I hope it does not last, although the many sheep that graze here will likely keep it alive.. It would over simplify people's decisions and that could have dire consequences.
Let's be smart investors - the more of us there are, the better off we are. Don't let a road sign tell you how to invest. Might just as well use your magic 8 ball and save the cost of an internet connection...
Use that thing in your head - and I don't mean your nose... ;)
-Neb
Hey Big Rig!
I just talked to Frank and he said that there are well over 5 TRILLION shares and the company is buying back 3.8 Trillion of them so they can have a majority. He told me he did not know the ration of preferred shares to the actual O/S and the float. He also told me that he loves to talk to people about his business even if he does not know who they are - huge corporate advantage for him to babble secrets to iHub posters. He is big on that. But after my three hour conversation with him he realized he was late for the office and had to end our conversation.
Oh, and that was my neighbor, Frank Smith who told me that, but everyone here should believe it and panic and discuss it for hours...
*sigh*
(Don't worry, BR, that was not pointed at you - just a chance to have some fun and make a point...)
Good Morning Everyone! Let's use FACTS for DD and then we can have a green day today!
-Neb
Actually, Believer Fever, my words were "corporate executive" and in my head as I listened I was questioning his validity as he was talking like he owned the company or was employed there in some high level way. Then he raised his voice when another person probed him and I chimed in saying it was not the behavior of any corporate executive I have ever seen. He then got defensive and showed his true colors. He may be connected to them, he may not be. But he was the ONLY person I heard bring up E&Y as auditors. Once he had the duct tape put on over his trap, Raphael got on and said they could not reveal it. Therefore, this person was a quack. Therefore we must wait for the reality.
Just to clear the sludge from the air...
Oh, and GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!! MAKE IT A GREAT DAY TODAY!!!!!!
-Neb
Oh no you didn't!!
Well played, but I am afraid I will just have to pretend that never happened...
:P
-Neb
A young, well-educated man on his first business trip gets on a plane
to find himself seated next to an older, weathered man in a western snap shirt, faded jeans and a cowboy hat. Thinking himself above the old
cowboy, the young man decides to make sport of him.
"You know," he says, "I've heard these flights go much more quickly if you strike up a conversation with a fellow passenger. So, let's talk."
The cowboy looks at him and says, "Well I s'pose that'd be all right. What'd ya like to discuss?"
"Oh, I don't know," says the young man with a hint of sarcasm. "How about nuclear proliferation?"
"Hmm," says the cowboy, sensing the young man's attempt to belittle him. "That could be an interesting topic. But, let me ask you a question first: horses, cows, and deer all eat the same stuff--- grass. Yet, a deer passes little pellets, a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse makes muffins of dried poop. Why do you suppose that is?"
Dumbfounded, the young man replies, "I haven't the slightest idea."
"So tell me then," says the cowboy with a knowing smile, "How is it that you feel qualified to discuss geopolitics when you don't know shit?"
Nice!
Hey, now...um...yeah - that's it, mine would be NICE...
-Neb
Um...ahh...and by tiny, I mean my number of shares...
*ahem*
-Neb
Happily surprised, as well, TFN! But again, hearing Rafael yesterday, my gut told me he was on the level.
Smart people don't react in any kind of knee-jerk fashion, they react on the facts. As the facts continue to emerge, the money will flow in and the share VALUE will go up, as will the price, I think.
I was one of the lucky ones who got to buy on the dip and double my shares (I actually got the first half at .30 so today averaged me up a bit, but I thought it was worth the increase) I am tiny compared to most, but for me at this stage I am just looking at the percent gain and dreaming about the day where I can look at both the percent and dollar amount gains with the same enthusiasm...
-Neb
rebelgirl is in da' hizzy!
Mmmmmmm hmm!
-Neb
I am in IT, as well - great stuff. I remember seeing the video of the exploding Dell laptop battery, but this takes the cake...or case, if you will.
-Neb
No no, please not the Power Rangers. I had SUCH withdrawls...
A hearty RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!
That is it exactly. Thanks for posting the truth - I have been drifting about the other boards reading the drivel of idiots. This is the first post of the day that makes any real sense at all.
I think I will log off on that one.
And to all a good night...
-Neb