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lmorovan,
Here is the commandment under the new covenant.
2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
We are free to give more or less than 10%. What matters is that we give and give cheerfully.
Sassy,
I agree, that is why God told us that through Paul.
2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
lmorovan,
It doesn't matter if we observe it or not, we have don't have a choice in the matter, right? Whether or not we observe it, it is part of God's sovereign plan. Please don't ask me to make a choice on whether or not to observe it, I have no free will to make that choice.
lmorovan,
If someone takes a vacation, retires, or celebrates a birthday given your proclaimed beliefs, it isn't a sin since they have no choice in the matter, if they did, God's sovereign plan would be ruined.
lmorovan,
"No, what I am saying that what the Bible does not teach, we should not do."
Should we discuss the Bible on a internet message board?
Should we have baby showers for soon to be mother's?
Should we be able to go to a movie?
Can we eat ice cream?
Should we use a microwave to heat our food?
Not everything is morally right or morally wrong. If celebrating someone's birthday was a sin against the will of God, He would have revealed it directly or through principle, He did not.
As excel said, you are wandering into legalism and it is not a term to defend or justify sinful things.
1 Corinthians 6:12
12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.
The book of Galatians deals with legalism.
Jonny,
The doctrine of a triune God is certainly a difficult one for us to understand but the concept is woven throughout God's Word.
Matthew 28:19
19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Luke 3:21-22
21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened,
22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
John 10:30
30 “I and the Father are one.”
Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
1 John 5:7 (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Colossians 1:16
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
John 3:16
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Jonny,
Thank you!
Jonny,
I agree with you, but do you also believe that Jesus is the only way to be reconciled to God or do you believe that all religions provide a different path to the same God and eternal salvation?
I am really not trying to pester you, I am just wondering if you have come to that conclusion after studying all of the world's religions or if you came to a belief like universalism.
Jonny,
Recognize you are a sinner and place your faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for you and everyone else, paid the penalty for your sins. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice and the only sacrifice capable of paying for the sins of mankind.
John 3:16
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Acts 2:21
21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Acts 4:12
12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
Jonny,
I don't believe I referred to you as an accuser against Christianity, I just asked you want you believe after studying all of the world's religions.
I think it is you who is being defensive, you are calling me names and being rude. This is a Bible discussion board, I am discussing the Bible and what is taught in it.
Are you able to articulate what you believe? Is placing your faith in Jesus Christ the only way to achieve salvation or are there others? If you believe there are other ways I would like to know what they are.
If you feel uncomfortable taking a position on this subject, let me know and I won't ask you about it anymore.
Jonny,
lmorovan denies that man has free will.
Jonny,
I am sorry I offended you for asking you to respond to a question that I asked you.
Can someone reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal Savior and receive salvation? You have claimed to be a student of many religions and I just want to know what you believe. I am not asking you any questions that I am not prepared to answer myself.
I am not asking you about doctrines or regulations, I am asking you what must a man do in order to be saved and reconciled to God?
lmorovan,
You cannot claim this to be a fact, not every event in Jesus' life is documented in the Bible. There isn't any teaching by Christ or his Apostles that teaches against celebrating a birthday. If you choose to not celebrate birthday's that is your business, but don't lay your yoke on others.
Jonny,
Will you please reply to post 6152?
lmorovan,
Can you provide some Biblical evidence to show us that celebrating someone's birthday is sinful?
lmorovan,
Do you consider it a sin to celebrate a birthday?
Jonny,
Do you believe that all belief systems are equally capable of reconciling the believer of any of the belief systems to God or is there one way, one true faith by which God has offered as a path to reconciliation with Him through faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross?
Scared heartless, that was funny!
Jonny,
So you believe that only 144,000 will be saved?
Revelation 7:9
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Jonny,
Are you a Jehovah's witness? Who is Jesus to you?
Jonny,
You are saying that king David did not go to heaven?
How do you interpret the verses that I posted where Paul says that it is far better to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord?
How do you explain the souls of the martyrs in Revelation, conscious and crying out for God to avenge their martyrdom?
How do you explain Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration?
How do you explain Abraham rejoicing to see Jesus come to earth?
John 14:2-3
2 “In My Father’s house (on earth?) are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you (on earth?).
3 “If I go and prepare a place for you (on earth?) , I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am (on earth?) , there you may be also (on earth?).
Jonny,
You seem to like to ask questions without providing your background and perspective. When you ask questions, will you please post your views too?
How long do you believe mankind has walked the earth?
Do you have any comments on the passages that I posted that do not support the idea of soul sleep or soul death?
Who is Jesus to you?
Luke 23:46
46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last.
4151 pneuma { pnyoo’-mah}
from 4154; TDNT - 6:332,876; n n
AV - Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13, Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3, Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47, spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus’ own) spirit 6, (Jesus’ own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385
GK - 4460 { πνευ̂μα }
1) a movement of air (a gentle blast
1a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
1b) breath of nostrils or mouth
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) of God
4a) God’s power and agency distinguishable in thought from his essence in itself considered
4a1) manifest in the course of affairs
4a2) by its influence upon the souls productive in the theocratic body (the church) of all the higher spiritual gifts and blessings
4a3) the third person of the trinity, the God the Holy Spirit
5) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
5a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
Revelation 6:9-11
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Jonny,
Not according to the Apostle Paul.
2 Corinthians 5:8
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:1-8
1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord—
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight—
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
Genesis 2:7
7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
5315 nephesh { neh’-fesh}
from 5314; TWOT - 1395a; n f
AV - soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47; 753
GK - 5883 { נֶפֶשׁ }
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions
1g) activity of mind
1g1) dubious
1h) activity of the will
1h1) dubious
1i) activity of the character
1i1) dubious
Jonny,
I agree, I believe that is what God's Word teaches.
Genesis 3:22-24
22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—
23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
Jonny,
I agree completely, Dan Brown is certainly not a prophet of any kind. He is just another mocker, scoffer and unbelieving blasphemer who feels like it is an honor to attack Christianity.
lmorovan,
Why are you resorting to cursing? I don't think anyone here is scared of the book or the movie, quite the contrary. I don't think it is wise for a Christian to give money to those whose goal is to attack the foundation of the truth of Christianity that will lead some people to eternal destruction. Would my faith be shaken if I saw the movie or read the book? Most certainly not!
The Da Vinci Hoax: Exposing the Errors in The DaVinci Code - $12.99
The DaVinci Code Breaker - $5.99
Cracking DaVinci's Code: You've Read the Fiction, Now Read the Facts - $3.99
The Truth Behind the Da Vinci Code: A Challenging Response to the Bestselling Novel - $7.99
The DaVinci Code - $29.99
I don't see anyone trying to make a buck off of the controversy, I see people standing for the truth, not lining the pockets of the enemies of Christ.
Jonny,
It is certainly a clever fictional story. The problem is that just like Satan, the author uses bits of truth and lots of lies to deceive people. The author and the book itself doesn't admit that the story isn't true, likely or plausible. I wish people were as eager to explore and believe the truth of God's Word as they are to believe the garbage of The DaVinci Code.
lmorovan,
If you want to give money to those that attack the very foundations of Christianity, that is your right, I will become informed by giving money to those who refute lies such as The DaVinci Code. Your belief that you will get the information to refute the claims in the DaVinci Code by reading The DaVinci Code doesn't make any sense at all and it sickens me that you would call into question the motives of those who have taken the time to write well researched rebuttals of this blasphemous message.
The information you posted about DaVinci's nasty habit of expressing his own ideas and beliefs in his paintings is one of the pillars of why the book is called The DaVinci Code. I am surprised that you found that bit of information so valuable in your study of how to refute the conspiratorial claims of the book.
lmorovan,
You would be far better prepared to refute the claims made in the DaVinci Code by buying and reading one of the well written, well researched claim by claim Christian rebuttals on the DaVinci Code.
Just reading the book isn't going to prepare you with facts you need to refute the false conspiracy claims found in the book and putting money in their pockets by buying the book or seeing the movie isn't going to help either.
You don't need to read the fictional story to properly deal with the false claims made within.
Jonny,
Welcome to the board. I am not going to say that I am a scholar, but I believe that mankind has been on this planet for thousands, not millions of years. What do you think?
lmorovan,
One more for the road.
Even if your distorted view of life and a soul was correct, you would not be able to answer this question.
If a Christ rejecting new mother who is suffering from post pardom depression or is just an evil person, kills her newborn baby, according to your beliefs, that child will be in the lake of fire for all eternity.
I would like to know if you were taught these beliefs or did you arrive at them on your own through reading God's Word in its entirety?
lmorovan,
It is really amazing watching you try and rationalize the beliefs you proclaim.
You always do the same thing when you are proven how faulty your beliefs are, you play the victim and disengage from the conversation. I have seen you do it many times with myself and others. So be it.
What is a baby? According to you it is a life form without a soul? That is what separates us from the animals, we have souls. If what you say is true, it would be murder to kill chickens, cows and other animals we use for food, since they are alive but don't have souls.
I love you enough to tell you the truth.
lmorovan,
You lack discernment.
lmorovan,
You have said that if someone disobey's Christ's commandment to be baptised, that they could not be in a true relationship with Jesus. If you follow that line of thinking and realize that Christ gave us many more commandments than the one about baptism, that if we break any of those other commandments, we can't have a true relationship with Him. That is false.
Are you saying that you have no responsibility for your sin or when you choose to sin? Who is accountable for our sin? We choose to obey or disobey Christ all of the time.
Your logic is deeply flawed and you refuse to see it.
1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
James 4:17
17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.
lmorovan,
Where do you come up with this stuff? You must be OK with the practice of partial birth abortion too, since according to what you just said a baby does not receive a soul until it leaves its mother's body and breaths on its own.