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nForce mem channels:
EDIT, LOOKS LIKE THIS POST IS NO LONGER NEEDED. POSTED BEFORE READING THROUGH THE ENTIRE BANKS/BUS THREAD.
" and you populate the 3rd bank what happens? Are you back to single channel?"
Yup.
I thought that you needed to have the same amount of ram in the two sets of busses. For instance, assuming slot 1 is on its own bus, and 2 & 3 are on the second mem bus, then you would get benefits if you had:
slot 1: 256 MB
slot 2: 128 MB
slot 3: 128 MB
but not if you had
slot 1: 256 MB
slot 2: 256 MB
slot 3: 256 MB
The one thing that I know for sure is that nVidia really messed up the communication of this stuff. It would be exceedingly easy for them to put out a 2 paragraph guide, which would have saved countless discussions on the boards and saved confusion in their customers.
Or maybe such a guide exists and I'm just not aware of it
neye
sgolds, I think you hit on something
perhaps unintentionally...
Solaris? Being displaced in the market by Linux, not much value there.
then
Only IBM is immortal. :)
The thing about Sun and solaris is that Sun supports Solaris. Support is where it's at. Who supports linux, better and more visibly than anyone else? Big Blue, of course So, if Sun dies, and people want to stay on a very well supported *n*x OS, wouldn't it make sense that IBM would be the beneficiary?
neye
sgolds, makes sense...
the socket 939 should have the benefits of both the 754 and 940, right? unbuffered and dual-channel mem? If so, that does sound like a good plan, assuming they'll sell them at main stream prices so we can actually afford them.
neye
paul, marcotte - why the 2400, mobo...
The answers are inter-related. I have one of the old K7S5A boards, and from what I read, I'm pretty safe with the 2400+ in terms of stability on the board and bios compatibility.
Also, this board tops out at 266 FSB, whereas the barton needs a 333 to run full speed. So... Unless I wanted to switch out my mobo as well, and pay for a fan too (I'm getting a retail PIB for the $80), this works out better for me.
The extra cache would be nice, but getting it at the expense of 20% loss in Mhz isn't ;) I could have also gotten the 2600+/266FSB model, but between the marginal extra expense and the extra heat, I'd rather the 2400.
At least now my cpu will come closer to matching my vid card (9700 pro).
neye
Got a 2400+ waiting for me @ fedex
This was my holdout play so I wouldn't spend the big $s on a new A64 system. Some people spend money to make money. I have to spend money to save money Should be a nice incremental bump from the 1700 I currently have. With shipping and everything at $80, it seems to be a reasonable deal.
Maybe in a few months or so, I'll upgrade the other computer (nForce 2 board) to a 2800+ from the current 2000+. I suppose after that I'll just have to make the 64-bit plunge. Hopefully by that point, prices on the 64 bit side will be down considerably.
Spending a couple hundred a year to keep 2 computers up to date seems entirely sensible to me. Anyone think A64s and socket 754 will be as kind to upgraders as the 266 FSB socket A platforms have been?
neye
wbmw - thanks - the stops are smarter than I am
The stop (and Schwab - I had the stop @ 15.75, but they got me the 3 cents on it) really saved my bacon, as I was in meetings all morning and would have been a large % worse off if I'd been left to do my own trading.
Seems like the downslide was reasonable, given the amount ATYT's shot up this year. And, with a PE of ~ 100, I'm guessing all the "growth" has been built into it already So, the conf call just reiterated what people already knew - ATI's doing well, but not so well that there is still a massive upside. So, it seems people responded accordingly.
From a consumer's perspective, it's great to have NVDA and ATI keep each other honest, just like with INTC and AMD. Still, from an investor's perspective, I just wish one would bury the other - doesn't matter which - so that the monopolistic profits would kick in for a while until the next competitor pops up.
neye
Just talking to myself, I suppose...
Stopped out at 15.78 this AM. Now, when to get back in...?
neye
Interesting info about sony - where do you get it?
I've heard the now standard xbox2 win and the nintendo link is there of course, but where did you find the info about nVidia persuing SNE? I'll admit I haven't followed graphics as much as I had earlier, so it may be an obvious source.
It seems that ATYT is really just crushing nVidia right now in the high end, and with HL2 coming in the box with new ATI cards (those new benchmarks don't hurt either), I'm guessing that they're going to ship an uncharacteristically large number of the higher-margin parts than usual.
I guess what I'm thinking is that, while the "bread and butter" cards are the mid to low end, this next quarter should have a disproportionately large amount of high end that could rock their financial boat in the right direction. Couple this with the fact that they're doing this with an established product (the R300 series) instead of trying to introduce a new architecture (= uncertainty), I'm thinking they have a good chance to run up a bit more.
Anyway, good job in picking up the $5's when you had the chance - no shame in taking a 60% profit, and opportunity cost of that sort should only mean something if you can tell the future
neye
Hey, wbmw...
good to see you on a board of mutual interest other than the AMD board
Just bought some ATYT. It's my first stock trade in over a year, I think. In @ 14.75, let's see if I get burned per my usual "strategy" Of course, I wish I had whatever basis you had when you made your post to which this is a reply, but I have to (re)start somewhere...
neye
Jules - is their website even up?
I copied and pasted the link you gave but just got a "coming soon" page. May want to tell them
neye
A64's in stock with the MSI Neo's at CompUSA
Of course, the Mobo is $199, and the processor is $599, so that cooled any sudden urges to "impulse buy", considering that you can get the combo of both pieces for $590 + shipping at online retailers that have them in stock.
neye
Elmer - about those SPEC scores
Is this also using the pre-release ICC 8.0 compilers? Since the AMD chips are doing better using the ICC than other compilers as well, I'd be interested in seeing how the A64s score with them.
P4/3.2 EE
SPECint_base2k 1475
SPECfp_base2k 1583
from SPEC web site
A64 FX/2.2 (Opteron)
SPECint_base2k 1376 (IRC 7.0, XP)
SPECfp_base2k 1371 (PGI 5.0, SuSE)
Of course, if these aren't useing the soon-to-be 8.0 compilers, disregard this post.
neye
my thoughts on all this stuff.
I am actually highly amused and definitely non-plussed by the AMD-can-do-no-good people here actively looking for bad news today. I called a few places that were sold out of A64s, so that was interesting, and I found at least one place where they're still in stock (I didn't buy one).
I still own no AMD shares, and don't intend to unless it drops sub $10 per share.
I think the neatest "review conclusion" of the day comes from Ace's:
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000267
(note, this is *not* the FX. If I included that column it would look a lot uglier for the P4)
AMD Athlon 64+ 3200+ versus Pentium 4 3.2 GHz "C"
Age of Mythology 33% faster
Comanche 4 Equal
Civilization III Equal
Enemy Territory 5% slower
Ghost Recon 13% slower
Grand Prix 4 5% faster
Jedi Knight Academy Equal
Medieval: Total War 6% faster
Unreal Tournament 2003 Asbestos 15% faster
Unreal II 12% faster
X² 5% faster
Considering that of the games there, I've sunk more time into Age of Mythology than all the others combined, I think I may be getting one of these once the prices fall later this year or early next.
neye
Elmer, speaking as a TV card user...
(and a Radeon 9700 AIW Pro, at that), I wouldn't want to have to turn off all the lights, have a special screen, buy a $1000 projector (at least - those are the cheap ones now), and replacement bulbs.
really - what if I want to watch the tube and it's daytime? I wouldn't want to watch bleached out colors.
yet I am a big fan of TV cards, and am watching right now in my see-through (thru-view is the registered name) desktop on my machine while I'm typing (Conan is on).
neye
fi - sounds very cool! Unfortunately, I never took any of the art history classes. A couple of my friends took some classes and loved them, whether they would end up becoming art history majors or not.
neye
fi - that sounds really low
It was probably 60/40 or so pcs to macs when I graduated ('98). So... Either that 90% number is just w/r/t Wintel machines, or the percentages have changed by an incredible number. Given how oberlin works, I'm much more inclined to believe that the 90% number just refers to the pc's on campus, and doesn't include the macs.
mind telling me what the husband prof teaches???? Now I'm really curious!
neye
VA Tech supercomputer - I don't understand
From the notes, it says that they made a decision based solely on price/performance, and then later in the notes from the
Q&A session, one of the questions and answers is:
Does it render?
Yes, incidentally, it does. The units came with high end graphics cards
Price/Peformance.... High End graphics cards... Spiffy cases with special racks custom-designed for the G5s, yet the Apple solution was the best price/performance, even though they haven't done any perfomance testing?
and they're willing to have a huge system like this without ECC ram??? http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3069889167d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3...
eh, who cares about data integrity
Pardon me if I'm not convinced. Or maybe IBM/Sun/Dell were just really hosing them on price, in which case, it's almost understandable. But then, apparently price/performance wasn't the only consideration - having Tier1+apple OEM support was even more important. If they didn't need a major OEM to support it, they could have done something like the $40K supercomputer at University of Kentucky:
http://aggregate.org/KASY0/press.html
Using a single-precision version, the $39,454.31 KASY0 obtains over 471.5 GFLOPS, more than 44% of its theoretical peak and less than $84 per GFLOPS.
but the apple machine looks neat, and they certainly do seem to be getting in the infrastructure to support it at Vtech.
neye
tfx - that would be odd of IBM
According to very reliable sources, IBM is planning to push it's PowerPC production process directly to 0.06um by the end of the year.
what, they're going against the rest of the industry and using .06 instead of .065? or perhaps macosxrumors.com had a typo (repeatedly)?
I can't get to the site, so I can't see the rest of the writing, if there is any.
neye
fi - that's my college!
That photo is in the basement of the library, which also houses (assuming it's the same as when I left it) the computer store and a few computer labs.
Oberlin is a very mac and *n*x-friendly place.
neye
just installed a xeon server tonight
going to be a citrix server. nothing notable about the install except for the fact that when I went to task manager, it was the first time that I found out that the dual-xeon 2.4's were actually HT-enabled, and saw the 4 cpu graphs chugging along. That was a rather pleasant surprise.
the AMD run up over the past few weeks must have been pretty nice for you guys who are holding it - I'm jealous
other than that, I'm just saying hi.
neye
Joe, drjohn - thanks
It's odd - some sites I can get to if I use the ip address, and others it doesn't matter whether I use the address or the domain name. Hope this worm is done soon...
thanks again,
neye
anyone having trouble getting to aces? (eom)
Elmer - thanks for the link/post (eom)
drjohn - huh?
I'm sorry, I don't read German, so maybe you can help me understand some of this.
First off, The top scorers are the 3.0x Ghz P4's, not the 2.8's. Any particular reason you chose to focus on 2.8?
Also, were the benchmarks done in uniprocessor or DP configuration?
thanks,
neye
joe - good point (eom)
sgolds - posters' biases
So it is not really important to refute every misleading post, readers can learn the biases of individual posters and intelligently decide for themselves whether something should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
Well ain't that the truth...
I haven't been checking the boards that much lately because there doesn't seem to be too much going on these days. Random question... you think any hardware manufacturers will make any Win9.x drivers for K8 hardware? All *n*x and NT?
Heck, it might be fun to buy an opteron system and install Win3.1 just for the sheer stupidity of it. Not nearly enough fun hardware stuff to talk about these days. Hopefully the fall will be as good as advertised for both INTC and AMD.
neye
sinclap, what a modest proposal!
The north gives more in taxes to the federal governement than it recieves back. I'd say cut the free loaders loose.
Yes, let's get rid of the bottom 25 states. Oh, but wait, then 12 states would be in the bottom of the new 25-state union. So let's pare that down to 13 states (what a nice number).
Now 6 are in the bottom, so pare that down to 7, then 4, then 2, and then you just have to get rid of that 1 last state, and blamo! - you've cut all the freeloaders loose! good plan.
neye
Blue - about BuyMusic.com
That sounds positively awful. Guess I'll just keep waiting for iTMSv.Win
neye
ABurner - me too
I'm as much responding just to say hello as much as anything else, but I agree with the nimo codec pack - seems to work great.
sgolds - sorry to hear about the 802.11g. If it means anything, I also have one of the HP ze series laptops (ze1110, I believe). My 802.11b card died, so I bought a new card, this one .11g. it picked up the WAP, which is still using .11b, just fine with winxp's "zero config networking", and I was on. So, it's not their whole line that's messed up. I'd be curious to see how your issue gets resolved,
neye
SZ, are you confused, or am I?
AMD's biggest Opteron customer, Newisys, is going out of business.
I didn't think Newisys bought opterons. I thought they just sold designs to other companies, who would then sell opteron-based systems.
neye
Zanny, how do you figure?
Revenue and unit increases.
The two we've been waiting a LOOOONG time for.
From the thestreet.com article:
While Apple's revenue was up in its third quarter, the company had a mixed quarter in terms of sales. Overall unit sales fell 4.6% from the same period a year ago to 771,000 units. Unit sales were up from 8.4% from the second quarter of this year, however.
Wouldn't it be most meaningful to compare to same quarter last year? If not, my mistake. In any case, a 5% unit dip when there was general foreknowledge that the G5's would be coming in the following quarter isn't that bad at all.
neye
Dan, I disagree
Over the years, they've managed to kludge P4 into becoming a competitive chip, with a number of redesigns and by pouring enormous resources into providing it with a strong dual-channel platform. But that doesn't mean P4 wasn't designed with a primary focus on mhz, not performance.
Adding features such as more cache, faster fsb, HT, dual-channel DDR-enabled, and SSE2 are not "Kludges". They are things that make it work better. The athlon has evolved from a 133-Mhz FSB chip to an effective 400 Mhz FSB chip. It's added more cache. It's added SSE (I think, I don't know if the K6's had this or not). It added hardware prefetch (palomino, IIRC).
Would you say that the athlon was kludged into being a good chip because it added these things?
The P4 designers saw a good bit into the future, IMO. They made a chip that could continue scaling the way people expect chips to, and in a design that allowed them to add these other features at the same time.
It seems that AMD used these tricks, for lack of a better term, earlier in the Athlon's life than INTC did for the P4. The result is that the P4 gets the benefit of an improved architecture, along with the ability to scale. When designing the K7, scaling was also obviously a priority, as they went from, what - 600 Mhz up to 2.25 so far?
The disconnect came at the K8 - by adding only a couple extra stages, it seems that AMD is having trouble continuing the scaling exhibited by the K7 in its younger years. Granted, we're only a few months in, so who knows, maybe it will grow some legs.
Actually, the part of your post I disagree with most is this:
But that doesn't mean P4 wasn't designed with a primary focus on mhz, not performance.
For a given architecture, increasing Mhz increases performance. Not linearly, but performance does increase. Not only has INTC managed to increase Mhz, but they've also added cache and upped the FSB to match the cpu Mhz increases (IIRC, FSB mhz has gone from 400Mhz to 1033Mhz effectively).
Sure, clever design is great, but that doesn't mean that a design which promotes good scaling is necessarily not performance-oriented. The proof is in the pudding, or in this case, benchmarks. If someone offered to give me a top of the line P4 system or a top of the line K7 system, I'd take the P4 system without hesitation.
With luck, the newer steppings of the K8 will drag AMD out of the Mhz ditch and back into the hunt.
neye
sgolds - the choice is nice
I am also in the market to get a new cell phone, but I think I will stick with the basic functionality.
If you don't intend to do a lot of texting/e-mailing, there's no sense in having the extra moving electronic parts and price that goes with it.
Hope you like your phone when you get it,
neye
OT: doing my part to help the flash sector!
My g/f and I just got cell phones today - we're just about 5 years behind the curve
Anyway, I wasn't going to get one, but after reading a couple reviews and finally having a phone that seems good for *non-voice* communications, I broke down and got it. Because of the corporate discout it was only $75, which seems to be a fair price. It's a Nokia 6800 with AT&T mMode activated. Here's a pic:
Keyboard open:
Keyboard closed:
g/f got a Nokia 6200. She liked the phone I got, but wanted one that would work for her European travels, and the 6800 wouldn't satisfy that requirement.
neye
edgar, ok then, is it worth the $ risk?
I can't imagine being an investor in AMD right now. I'm curious how many others are at this point. I think it's been close to a year since I've held any, but my memory is definitely fuzzy. It could have been as recent as 6 or 8 months, but I don't think so.
As for: <em>Which would serve all those out there who want Intel to rule the universe. We all would surely suffer if Intel did not have any competition. Prices would be kept artificially high and the performance would suffer.</em>
Well, I think we all wouldn't suffer in one way - we could invest with relative confidence in INTC I wouldn't like it as a consumer, but as an investor it makes things kind of easy, no? What could be better for a company's profits and growth compared to history than having the primary competitor dissappear and the landscape turn into a monopolistic one?
AMD's put enough strain on INTC over the past 3 years that INTC could look relatively *really good* financially if AMD goes away. Combine this with the Itanium family starting to pay for itself, and INTC could be sitting quite pretty. Not that I want this to happen, but I'd rather be prepared with a monetary plan for the eventuality to take advantage of it instead of having an emotional block which prevents me from making a, IMO, no-brainer investment decision.
neye
lbotez - missing ticker
don't know if it would work or not, but you could probably (is it legal?) link an image in your signature. If everyone did it, it might serve the same purpose, though I don't think everyone would like doing it, or yahoo would like providing so many images...
neye
chipguy - portland group
I think there have been portland group compiler results submitted to spec.org with the 4.0 version of their product already (so many threads in various forums, I can't remember where I saw this linked, probably from aces somewhere).
Also, would *you* want someone doing benches on your beta project? nVidia did the same relative performance stuff with the developement nForce boards. ATI did it with the R300 series cards. I think it's standard faire for the industry to work this way. That's not a normative statement, just a positive one.
neye
how amusing...
the first time in months my browser (IE 6 on 2k) has crashed, and it's on jr's tshirts page.
who says computers don't have feelings?
neye
tfx - headset stuff
Hey, I don't really need one, but wouldn't mind having one for cheap. If $20 sounds good, contact me at my e-mail addy as listed here at ihub.
neye
Roni - I agree
but since I do not currently have any aapl, I might view such bad news as an opportunity to purchase some shares
I've been staying out of individual stocks for the most part recently, and the most tempting one I've been thinking of these days has definitely apple after it (assumedly) gets whacked after earnings.
Didn't think I'd be an AAPL holder again, but hey, money's money, and if a good opportunity presents itself, I'll happily oblige it
neye