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Not useless.....You just need to understand the limitations of the information presented.
The market is designed to seperate you from your money. There are many ways that it is done. Providing information that seems to tell you something but really doesn't is one of the ways that is done.
Look at it this way. How many people out there are willing to tell you how to make money in the market using charts, their proprietary system, there picks etc as long as you give them money.
Those people don't make money by using their system... they make money off of selling you their system.
Charts help people that know how to use them and who understand thier limitations.
If any system that really worked becomes wide spread, it will quit working becuase the market will adjust to it.
That is why companies were willing to spend big bucks on computer systems to do the "rapid trade" thing by having computers at the exchanges looking at the market data a frction of a second before the rest of the market..... That gave them an edge and they could make money off of that edge. The SEC has just told them to stop doing that.
If there was a system the consistantly worked, whoever had it would now own the market. There are very sharp people who have worked hard to learn their own stengths and weaknesses and learned how to watch the market. Those people make money at trading.
Yep. Buys at the bid price.
That is what I was trying to point out in MSG 16929.
Determining if a trade was a buy or a sell is tricky thing.
Steady_T
And your point is what?
Just picked up 100K at the bid. .028.
Interedtingly the trade slip shows the fill in two parts one for 11K and one for 89K.
The 11K printed but the 89K was rolled into the larger print of 144K.
looks like I bought early.... again.
Steady_T
The whole concept of buy or sell is difficult on the pinks......How many times have you bought at the bid and sold at the ask on the pinks?
The RED and GREEN simply indicate whether the price of the trade was higher lower or the same as previous trades. That's all it indicates.
There really is no way to know if a trade was a buy or a sell.
Many here will tell you a trade is both a buy and a sell. That may not really be the case. A MM can buy sahres from you and put them in his inventory for a short period of time. In my world that was a sell. It went from the market to the MM. Later the MM will sell those shares to buyer in the market. I call the a buy. You can argue that each trade was a buy and a sell.
What about the frequent case where the MM just matches orders so that someone sells and someone buys those same shares at the same time without the MM taking posession. Which is that, A buy, a sell. both?
What you can say about a trade is the the printed price is higher, lower or the same as the previous trade or series of trades. To my way of looking at it, calling a trade a buy or a sell without knowning which way the shares actually moved in someones account is pure speculation.
That is one reason I post many of my transactions, the price and whether it was at the bid, the ask, or in between. That provides real information to the board about what the MM's are actually doing. Information that is not available any other way.
Hope this is helpful.
Steady_T
I added up the share vol from the link you posted(thanks)
342 mill shares traded in Aug.
Assuming that there aren't very many double prints i.e. both the buy and the sell are printed, that is all of the public float.
Since we know that there are many millinos of share held by folks on this board, it would seem that a lot of shares traded more than once last month, or the MM's frequently printed both sides of a trade.
FWIW
Steady_T
Instructmba... Thanks for the update and your efforts.
Steady_T
I'm not too unhappy with that 500K transaction at .028 today. There were 3 consecutive trades of 250K at .029 just in front of it.
The 500K was at the bid, not below it as in previous days, and with the 750K of trades in front, that suggests it was a MM to MM trade to fill the 750K. All in all, not a bad thing as in the recent past.
Steady_T
If EVRM moves to a higher exchange other than the OTCBB you can pretty much count on an RS as part of the process.
Even in these tough times the higher exchanges have minimum price targets to become listed. With the present number of shares outstanding getting the price up to $4 for the Naz is going to be very difficult. That and most MM's don't like to see so many shares outstanding when a stock is initially listed.
Not all RS's are bad. I have seen a few that the share price does go up to the new RS price and continue to move up from there. That is the exceptional case, especially with Pinks.
If they do an RS and then up list immediately there is a much better chance of the price holding and then rising.
EVRM isn't going to going to move up to a higher exchange before the end of the year. They can't get the 15C211 done and get fully reporting that fast.
I do expect them to become a fully reporting company as a first step in moving up to a higher exchange and that could occur sooner.
My preference is that EVRM stays on the Pinks for a while, becomes a fully reporting company until the price moves up to .50 or $1, then does the RS and moves to which ever NAZ exchange makes sense at that time.
It's a lot easier for a stock to move from .04 to .40 with 700 mil shares outstanding than it is for the same stock to move from $4 to $40 with a 70 mil shares outstanding, even though both moves represent the same percentage increase in share price and would have the same effect on EPS and P/E given the same income.
FWIW
Steady_T
If you use a wire, the funds are available the same day at Atrade.
I have had a wire go out when the bank opened and used the funds by 1 PM the same day.
If you use ACH which is an electronic bank tranfer the funds take 3 days to clear, If you use a check it's even longer.
Wire fee is $25 at my Bank BOA. It's worth it if there is a stock you are trying to get into.
Steady_T
Did I miss something? Where did you come up with the 25 mil figure?
Steady_T
There isn't much MOMO at this time.
Much of the buying over the last few days has come from within this group. Think about the number of posts that say "I'm buying or I'm adding."
At some point most of us either run out of ammunition or decide that we have enough shares to suit our individual risk profile.
I thought about adding back at .02 (in hind site wish I had) but decided that I had enough money at stake in the stock so I didn't.
Soon those who want to establish a position will have done so and the volume will dry up. When that happens, the thing that will drive this stock will be news.
The news will come and that will generate a new level of interest and a new round of buyers. Until then, be happy that we have an uptrend.
Yes you can short a penny stock.
At Ameritrade you have to have $2.50 in cash or margin available for each share that you short.
That is a broker requirement as far as I know, not an SEC or exchange requirement.
I assume that the big boys don't have that requirement.
My GTC order to sell at $2.00 has not been tampered with at Ameritrade.
Did you make it a GTC order?
Look out for a BIG SHAKE.
Nite is a .0166 on the bid side
I picked up some more at .028.
The problem with betting the farm is that you can wind up working in a factory.
IF you can afford to lose the money you have in other stocks as well as what you invest in EVRM then sell you other stocks and invest in EVRM.
If you can't afford to take that hit, then the choice is much clearer, don't you think?
As I calculate it each $1,000,000 the properties bring in at auction adds aprox 1.38 cents to the unit value.
That is the silliest thing I have read lately.
MOSH has no employees or officers. There are no insiders.
Since I don't work for JPM or PXD, can't be an insider there......Unless you think that I work for the court. Sorry I'm not involved in the legal profession.
Exactly where is it that I'm supposed to be an "insider"?
I realize that this is the internet and anybody can say anything without any basis in fact. Which you just did.
Oh wait... you think that because some of your posts are deleted that there is a great conspiracy.
Good luck with that.
Looks like we are now hoping for a good price at the auction.
Better work on your math a bit.
19,000,000 - 7,500,000 = 11,500,000.
11,500,000 - 150,000 = 11,350,000.
11,350,000 / 73,000,000 = .153 per unit.
.153 per unit plus what ever the auction brings in.
I considered selling a small number of shares to flip today when it was at .04. Didn't have the cojones to pull the trigger.
Something I read about "the hard right edge of the chart."
My guess is that there would be more buying but many are waiting to see if the MM's go for another shake some time today.
If so expect to see the vol sharply increase if the MM's take this into the mid to low .02's
Nite walked it down today pretty fast and didn't get much vol compared to yesterday. That suggests to me that they will shake it hard some time today. Just speculation on my part.
Picked up another 100K @ .031.
I expect to see some sub .03 today based on yesterdays shake.
Another shake today. Looks like we will get cheaper today than yesterday.
Nite is relentless.
Looks like the shake is over....
For you newbies, this was a world class tutorial on the way MM's (that's Market Makers) can control the price of a penny stock.
Learn to recognize the pattern, because being able to do so can save and make a lot of money for you.
The only unusual thing about this shake was that it lasted two days. They usually happen all in one day.
I'm jealous. I had to go out to a client site today and only got 100K @ .032.
Now the run up has started.....
Nice buying on your part.
Thank you for clearing that up.
That has the effect of providing the SDVO designation to the larger company making more types of services and goods available with the preferential treatment in the bidding process.
Makes good sense to me.
I'm not wild about the the OS increase involved, but there is no way around that.
My quick in the head addition gets about 2.7 mil traded at .03 including the big sell of 500K. That 2.7 mil is a ballpark number.
Nice to see you 77.
Looks like we may have at least a temp bottom.
The MM's are looking for panic selling......Judging from the tone of your post, you are getting close to panic.
Seems to me that they are succeeding.
I have to confess this is the most determined walk down I have ever seen on a pink.
Make no mistake... this is a walkdown by the MM's.
Stervc. I am confused on one point.
In that info from the guy who visited the company he discussed the need to have the present owner of STS keep 51% of the shares to preserve the Vet Owned Biz status.
Most of the rest of the DD talks about the 40% of STS that EVRM presently owns and how it will acquire an additional 40% of the biz.
These two pieces of information seem to be in conflict.
What is your understanding of this point?
Thanks
Steady_T
Looks like NITE was just a tad late..... That .0386 trade posted at 16:00:33 SO IT MISSED PAINTING THE DAYS LOW.
"...so predictable are they." lol
I was a day trader for a while. I was never very good at it, but I did learn a lot.
Now I swing trade or find things that have good potential and ride them till they do what they are going to do.
A good day trader (I have friends that still do that) has quite a bit of time on his hands. The real trick is waiting and doing nothing until the right situation presents itself.
Patience is what counts in daytrading, and knowing when to cut your losses. If you master those two things you stand a chance.
Steady_T
nice trading
I would guess that far less than 50% of the folks that have EVRM are paying any attention to this board, if the even look at it.
This stock has had a huge run up. After such a run up, many folks (day traders and swing traders) take all of their profits or as some have suggested here, sell a portion at a nice profit and ride the rest of their shares with little or no money at risk.
Also, The MM's have LVL III screens that show them all of the orders sitting out there. It is not uncommon for the MM's to engineer a rapid drop to hit all of the stop loss orders and clean out the book so to speak.
That does two things for the MM's.
First it generates profit by creating a large order flow. Note that the vol today is over 10 Mil and there is a hour of trading left.
Second, it allows them to either cover their short positions or acquire inventory if they so choose.
The only thing that surprises me about what has gone on today is that the share price didn't stay up once it got back to .05.
Of course the trading day isn't over yet either.
Steady _T
Just got a fill @ .0432
If I recall the new rules correctly that were adopted by SEC in the last month, MM's now are subject to the 3 day rule.
I just put my shares on a sell order @ $2.00.
That is true, but has nothing to do with thinking that the shares are not shortable.
OTC shares can be shorted. MM's can short them also. Especially if they can cover the short during the same trading day. Then it never goes on the books.
Most people don't realize that non-marginable stocks can be shorted.
Istitutions and folks trading via the ECN's can do things that us mere mortals can not. Not to mention that there are crooked brokers out there that just don't follow the rules.