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Santa's don't mention dump in hear - you get your posts deleted.
GM
Geccos bottom line here do you think the information management have provided to pinksheets is accurate. Do you honestly believe there is only 200m in the float as stated and the o/s is 700m?
GM
No one should be worried - there is only 200m shares in the float - it is only people buying and selling for a loss that is giving 40m+ days ?
Thank God for some of the posters on this board or I would be worried right now, thinking a major dump is going on.
GM
bullcents where do you get this stuff from?
''Since there were so many fraud cases in the late '80s involving small and micro cap companies, rules for pinks are extremely strict now---even more so for pinks than for large and mega cap stocks''.
There has been more fraud in the micro markets this millennium than you can shake a stick at. Look at the sec suspension list for the last 5 years and tell me how many are pinksheet/micro cap stocks and how many are from the big boards. and believe me that is only the ones the SEC can be bothered going after.
The pink sheets is the playground for just about all the doggy fraudsters in the market. All they need is an accommodating lawyer and broker to write opinion letters and dump shares and believe me there are plenty of them about.
I’m sorry but that is just about the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard with regards to the stock market.
O and by the way how do you know it is people selling and not more shares being dumped to the float? Is there a report you can access that details who is buying and who is selling ?
GM
petermic yes I have and that was the basis to my last post.
This company could be a dilution machine or it could turn out to be a good long term investment but to many retail investors have been screwed into the ground over the years investing in companies just like this - promising great things and delivering nothing but increased o/s and significant losses in their financials. Losses which the retail investors get to pick up the tab on with the issuance of more shares to the float and o/s.
People that are going to short or manipulate stocks love these type of companies - no basis in the fundamentals to support the PPs - so they can manipulate the price up and collapse it in the blink of an eye and no one can really scream foul play because the value of the company is nearly impossible to determine.
GM
Question for the board what do you think the company is worth based on their financials? It is easy for a company to say it is in a billion dollar market and they believe their business model will yield xxxx but how many otc and pinkies say that and how many actually come any where close to meeting those forward looking statements?
That maybe give you an idea where the bottom is without the hype and fundamentals to support a bottom on the PPs.
GM
whatsupnow that is my concern - I have been following/trading pinks for a few years now and the MMs don't usually pull the price down to the .0005 range when there is only 200m in the float.
By the way what is the float suppose to be 200m or 218m - in pinksheets disclosure statement they quote the float as being 201m and the A/S as 701m but that does not tie with the 200m share filing and what already existed in the o/s pre merger. If it is 218m then they have the AS and OS wrong on pinksheets.
GM
What the hell was that after the bell 14.5m sold at .0005.
We have now traded over 40% of the supposed float in 2 days and the price has not moved.
GM
If they wanted to dump more shares they would have to increase the A/S, they have stated in there initial company information and disclosure statement that the A/S is 701,011,000 and Susnar and Chornomud own 500m thus 201,011,000 in the float.
Is there any system that can be checked to see if the 701m is still the A/S.
GM
The best thing PAVC could do is totally disassociate themselves from TCHH and go it alone with Detroit and AAAA and for us hope that the revenue numbers they have been stating are real.
GM
Sorry to say this but TCHH looks like one big pump and dump with spam e-mails and faxes hitting the system and we are associated with them.
I hope we are not part of the whole pump and dump - Just don't get a good feeling with any of what is going on right now.
GM
20M shares traded and the PPs don't move. What the hells going on. You would think if this was limited dumping IE. 200m shares they would try and get the best price for their customer. If this keeps on happening i.e lasrge trade days and no PP movement retail investors will loose interest.
Surely the 200m have been dumped to the market already - can anyone confirm - pennypusher can you tell whats the latest with ubss what they have traded December ?
GM
moneyman340 any idea how big the Imodel and talent operation is?
Does anyone else believe that the PRs would be flooding out under normal circumstances - as I said before this is like a trade embargo? We will not PR any good news unless you (cd hloders) start playing ball with us.
In the fashion industry with everything going on, under normal circumstances you would expect to see PRs every other week if not day - I mean to say the whole industry is one big marketing campaign but no PRs for the market to induce investors to buy stock or raise the PPS. That tells me something.
GM
The bottom line with this stock is are we only down at these levels because of the 200m shares being dumped to the float? If we are can anyone determine if the 200m have been completely issued to the market? and lastly does everyone feel confident that there will be no further shares issued to the float by related parties in the near term?
If the answer to question 1 and 3 is yes then this should be a good investment and we should all be positive about the PPs moving up after the issuing of the 200m is complete.
I don't really give a rats who is making the money from the issuing of 200m shares although I would prefer the company was getting some benefit from it, we new it was there, as long as they don't dump more shares beyond that?
Anyone friendly enough with Susnar to confirm that or at least as the question.
GM
Question for the board - If there is still a balance of shares to be issued from the 200m to be offered to the market - once they are totally issued should that stop the downward pressure in the stock and if we have subsequent runs then there should be some momentum behind it?
GM
The MMs and shorter’s can basically do anything they want to PAVC and TCHH. Both companies are making significant losses and they have no other positive fundamentals to shore up their share price - we still have to see proof of Detroit and AAAA financials - revenue and P&L and any improvement in financials of PAVC or TCHH.
How much do you trust the management of PAVC and TCHH ? Do you believe they are going to do the best for the shareholders or like many pinks and otc companies themselves. How much of the quarterly financial losses are tied up in management salaries and consultancy fees?
gm
Again Geccos, thanks for the info.
GM
Does anyone know what the outstanding debt is on the property ?
GM
Thanks Geccos
GM
Does anyone know what the buy/sell ratio is today ?
GM
jipper where are you getting the name from - in connection with what or whom ?
GM
Not bashing here just want to know that the club is indeed open and trading - hopefully getting more and more busy as we head towards X-MAS. Anyone confirm?
GM
Hitting all time lows all the time now - scary crap.
What is annoying me is I paid $10k for JPHC stock to get 23,000 PAVC stock, now $10k can buy you 500k stock. Long term shareholders just don't seem to win out of these deals. Very rarely do.
GM
Nice to see the market reacting so well to our evaluation. Must be the only stock I know that has announced a business evaluation 15 x greater than its PPs and then the PPs drop by 50%.
GM
tax_man my thoughts behind going it alone with PAVC, Detroit and AAAA is that we will not be carrying 2 companies losing money ie PAVC and TCHH.
I would hope that Detroit and AAAA with $30m and $35m annual would be cash flow positive i.e no need to dilute or dump more shares to the float to stay operational and may even support PAVC operations until they turn a profit or worse case scenario dump PAVC current ops and run with D and AAAA if things don't work out.
I just don't like the idea of supporting 2 (PAVC and TCHH) companies that are losing significant money in the short/medium term with any positives from D & AAAA.
I think with revenues in the $70-$75m area and no further restrictions to selling stock the market would react extremely positive to the PAVC/D/AAAA merger. I do not like the idea of having to go into another restriction if the deal goes through with TCHH (if that is to be the case) and great uncertainty on what could happen to the share price and O/S while we do not have the power to sell.
I know you might think that is an extremely negative way of looking at it but we have just been through a similar scenario and I would be surprised if it has worked out positively for any EX JPHC holder.
GM
PennyBagger I thought I explained in my post 700m x .0004 = $280k.
GM
I can't believe this has hit .0004, if this is manipulation it is the worse I have seen in a long time if the float is just 200m and o/s 700m. That would give us a M/C of $280k.
GM
To tell you the truth I would prefer that the deal doesn't go through with TCHH.
If the evaluation is real and we are indeed worth between 54-60 cents and between the 3 entities we were cash flow positive then I would prefer that we went it ourselves.
$75 million a year in rev would get the market excited and the share price would find its new level.
I don't like the idea of supporting 2 entities that are making significant losses.
GM
Yer like a bunch o wanes as we would say over here in Scotland.
It doesn't really matter how much we complain or get annoyed about the company - at this moment in time it is a crap shoot and all we can hope is the company is operational and hopefully making money.
I still believe the lack of news coming out of the company is down to the conflict they have with the CD holders otherwise they would be pumping and dumping like any other scammy pink out there.
GM
I hope if the deal goes through then PAVC asks for a recall of all outstanding shares from brokerage houses before being replaced by TCHH shares.
If this is not shorting/manipulation then we have big probs because that will mean that the market believes the evaluation or the proposed merger is not legit or a poor deal for retail investors.
GM
Tax man I have greater concerns with TCHH.
The max PAVC can issue is 125m and with an evaluation of between 54-60 cents that would give us a M/C of 70m to 75m - we believe currently the O/S is about 95m which would give us a M/C of $53m to $57m. I have no idea what o/s they used in deciding 54-60 cents but I assume it had to be between 95m and 125m.
With revenue in the region of $70-$75m annual between the 3 companies then I could believe in how they could arrive at this evaluation range i.e between $53m (lower limit) and 75m (higher limit) dependant on the O/S base they used.
Now could someone please explain how TCHH real value can be verified (out with current m/c)and what methodology you would use.
GM
granr1323 what I am saying is that for not alot of money ($1m) 14 shareholders have just recieved about 50% of a company valued at circa $50 - $60m. If the evaluation of yesterday was a fair and true representation of what the company is worth then they have just received 25 to 30 x their investment.
GM
Trackgirl sorry but I can't PM.
Thanks for the input. IMO it is not about selling just now it is about owning.
GM
gandr1323 if I am right on my assumption then what serious money are they betting ?
They have just received roughly 50% of the company for what - consultancy fees?
Do you know how easy it is to write consultancy fees onto the books without actually doing consultancy, especially if you are the owner/director of both companies and you are willing to accept stock as payment.
GM
You see where I am coming from - Mr Bauer announces resignation on the 10/01/2007 thus he is not a director anymore but probably is still a shareholder and then 4/5 days later the whole merger scenarios start to take place which were probably in the works for weeks/months while he was a director. Funny that anyone would stand down when so many exciting thing were about to take place in the company and obviously deals that he was part of.
Then part of the deal is to pay off $1m in debt for 46m shares to 14 shareholders - not directors, that could be deemed a bit fishy.
It just so happens that Bauer was a director of the company at the time of the last 10q and monies was owed to companies or companies controlled by the directors to an amount very close to the debt paid off.
Probably just a coincidence.
GM
Does anyone else believe/consider that one of the reasons that the share price on PAVC is down at these levels is because the company was willing to sell 46,139,374 shares for $1,066,973 in debt? This means they were willing to sell shares at .023 while they were telling the shareholders that they considered the value of the company to be 1.30 per share.
I would love to know who the 14 shareholders were that have just made 26x their money based on the evaluation price released yesterday. It couldn't be the directors and associates of the company could it?
Probably barking up the wrong tree.
GM
Item 3.02 Unregistered Sales of Equity Securities
During September, 2007, the board of directors approved the issuance of 2,306,969 shares of Series A Convertible Preferred Stock from the conversion of $1,066,973 in indebtedness owing to the debt holders by the Registrant. The shares are to be issued to 14 debtholders. The preferred shares will be issued as restricted securities and are exempt from registration under §5 of the Securities Act of 1933, as the issuances are deemed exempt from registration under §3(a)(9), §4(1) and 4(2) of the Securities Act of 1933
During September 2007, the board of directors approved the issuance of 46,139,374 shares of common stock from the conversion of 2,309,969 Series A Convertible Preferred Shares. The shares are to be issued to 14 shareholders. The common shares will be issued as restricted securities and are exempt from registration under §5 of the Securities Act of 1933, as the issuances are deemed exempt from registration under §3(a)(9), §4(1) and 4(2) of the Securities Act of 1933
From 10Q
a) Included in accounts payable at June 30, 2007 is $718,658 (2006 - $502,852) owing to directors or companies controlled by directors.
b) Included in loans and advances payable at June 30, 2007 is $120,938 (2006 - $23,671) owing to directors or a companies controlled by directors.
c) During the period ended June 30, 2007, the Company incurred $270,000 (2006- $270,000) in consulting expense to companies controlled by directors.
jamj I believe the valuation price does include AAAA and Detriot 'The pricing analysis is based principally on a comparative assessment of the future revenues and cash flow of Paivis, inclusive of its recently announced acquisition agreements.
I have no idea how they are going to work this deal - it is completely obscure to me.
An evaluation process should give a $ value attached to the company but that is not clear based on not knowing how many shares the valuation process was based on. Was it 95m , 100m or 125m ?
I have no idea how the whole share exchange with TCHH would work if the deal went through I.E How do you work out how many shares you would get of TCHH.
If TCHH had to go through an evaluation process what would the company be valued at per share. They currently have a market cap of $1.52 x 77,699,138(per their last 10qsb)which = $118m but what is their true value?
Their current market cap value is not based on earnings or revenue because they have lost 812k through 9 months trading this year and only generated 83K in revenue, it is not asset based because they only have $135k assets and $1.2m in short/long term liabilities so what is it based on and how secure is their current market cap - I would suggest that a share price not supported by market fundamentals could tank or be manipulated down significantly if shareholders got negative on the stock and short sellers stepped in or vice versa.
With PAVC you can understand an evaluation of between .56/.60 based on the revenues of the 3 companies which should be circa $70 - $75 annual.
If I was the CEO of PAVC and I was trying to engineer the best deal for the company and shareholders I would be asking the TCHH owners to prove their current market value so that I would be confident in the knowledge if the deal goes through that the share price would remain stable based on sensible market evaluations, not hype or manipulation.
Just my thoughts.
GM
I have sent various mails to the SEC asking many pertinent questions regarding GRYF and the process and system controls in the market and guess what nothing - ignore button.
I keep on sending.
GM
This could only happen in the stock markets, in any other area of business or society if the same thing happened i.e dealing in counterfeit/illegal property - people would be doing jail time and not just the originators of the scam but everyone that took part in it.
GM
I understand what you are saying and if correct the whole system is a joke and totally corrupt.
The system that the Brokers/MMs/DTCC and the SEC own and are suppose to run and make sure is secure, allows Joe blogs to come along, kidnap a company - sell illegal stock through a corrupt lawyer and master broker into the market - where everyone makes out - MMs, Brokers, DTCC and the crooks. The retail shareholders and the real owners of the company get screwed and loose everything, the MMs/Brokers/DTCC don’t need to give any money back after dealing in illegal/counterfeit shares and the company gets closed down.
Everyone moves on to the next scam and the SEC does nothing to make sure it doesn't happen again or compensate the shareholders and no one is answerable.
What a fuc---- joke.
GM