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excellent recap, allman. If you listen to the questions and his answers, you'll hear "yadda yadda slow yadda yadda slow yadda yadda". I felt like Wave had become a charitable organization dedicated to helping the oems educate the public and to helping with oem deployment with our negligible revenue file encryption and pim services. I'd sell my shares, but the price, deservedly, is dropping too much today.
In re-reading my hard-to-read notes, sks said that they would augment the ktm with a variety of other tools, which would be... what? Super secret services? [that was for you, zen]
He sounded so enthused about the ktm product/service? during the 3rd quarter cc, and he really downplayed it this cc, just saying that they were working with the oem vendors to [___] with channel vendors and stressing the tiny portion of tpm-enabled IBM machines.
And then he stressed slow going in 2004. I'm with cmf, I thought he sounded beaten down, too.
agreed, cmf, I didn't understand which service was in beta testing, either.
edit. going to open a pinot.
Does anyone feel good about this call?
I think we could safely check in every couple of months - sounds like there's just not going to be much going on for the next year or so. unbelievable! I know he's got to be careful because of the lawsuits but the shareholders deserve a little more guidance than this.
my new larry dudash poll:
is it better to own wave, or to have a chronic illness, or are they the same thing?
the thing about the cc is; how can you know, at this point, if sks's inevitable optimism is warranted or unwarranted? We need some facts, which we won't get.
doma, thanks for contacting the co. and checking up on that! Now call with the rest of my questions.
possible q's for cc:
1) You said at the last cc, regarding the key management product that "the understanding of what ultimately the business model will be on that, how that business model that we've articulated to them ultimately gets adopted and how it is scaled, I think we'll begin to have better picture on over the course of the next four to six months... " So, what's the current picture?
2) What services or applications is wave working to develop that use the concept of trusted time?
3) Someone emailed a company in Florida and they're having trouble getting the intel/wave enabled motherboards. Why is this?
4) When will wave's attestation product be offered to the market?
5) You've hired the law firm of Baker, Botts to safeguard wave's ip. What patent or patents do you see as the most valuable?
6) What law firm is representing you in the current class action litigation?
7) What is the current litigation doing to the burn rate, if anything?
8) Has the current litigation made fund-raising more difficult? I know you can't answer that, just cough lightly once for "yes," twice for "no."
allman, thank you for the wave game plan. All the leveraging sounds like a tricky balancing act, considering whom they're dealing with. It will be interesting to watch the story unfold.
hi, 24, I honestly don't know what a pig in the poke is. [And my parents are from Iowa.]
Hi, 24, and the premium services are ktm and acm? And server functions are... what?
so, allman, you see the main revenue stream coming from acm and ktm services? Licensing revenues from ip? Super secret services not yet revealed?
why is there no excitement on these boards about the file encryption/privacy manager services? is this going to be a potential large, medium, or small revenue stream?
hi yaya, what did that post mean? Who would want money back?
Thanks, eom.
Larry, asked and answered:
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=2438926
snackman, maybe wave's on the cusp of success, maybe not. I have a feeling it will only be clear in retrospect, because it certainly isn't clear now.
weby, that was a great explanation! You have lucky students.
regards,
mammon
From rooster's post: is this competition for wave? "VeriSign Inc., IBM Corp. and others are backing a new program to develop an open standard for strong, multi-factor authentication that can be used across the Internet.
VeriSign plans to announce on Monday an initiative called the Open Authentication Reference Architecture (OATH), which will replace the patchwork of proprietary user authentication products, allowing users to seamlessly access services on corporate networks and the Web, VeriSign executives said. IBM Corp. said its Tivoli Identity Management product will support the new OATH architecture."
Again, my lack of technical knowledge impedes me. What is the difference between attestation and authentication? Does authentication involve endorsement keys?
OT Great, Larry, you'll enjoy it!
thanks to the kind poster who pm'd me some reading. I don't have pm service, so can't reply. But I'm sure the rest of the board thanks you, too, at this point!
Larry, you should read "A Mathematician Plays the Stock Market" by John Allen Paulos, who wrote the excellent "Innumeracy." He hates TA! [But I don't, and appreciate your posts.]
thank you, rachelelise, for continuing to patiently answer me... I'm going to read the cite doma referenced and a couple more another kind poster pm'ed me and maybe I'll finally get up to speed. I know it seems sort of strange that a long-time poster doesn't know all this but my complete lack of computer acumen causes me to have no basic knowledge of terms like "key" and thus the rest of the information just flows by me. It just doesn't fit together in any context without the basic knowledge.
yaya, a busy, busy sales staff sounds great! I think we all need to hear something at this point, which, unfortunately, seems to conflict with sks's comments to barge about continuing to fly under the radar. [my paraphrase]
ps. I always thought an undertow was a bad thing!
q re wave website. If you click on "products", only the ets business and professional editions come up. R. recommended I read up on the server products on the web site, but if they're not under "products" and they're available, I'm not sure the web site is too well-designed. So the rest of the services that barge referenced - key management, attestation, the tan [these are all the same thing, right? wrong? so key management=attestation=trust assurance network?] are potential products you'd only know about from reading unclever's conference call notes, perusing this message board or attending the shareholders meetings?
doma, I'm still missing something - why would you want the toshiba tpms to be endorsement key loaded already - I thought that would mean that the manufacturer would then handle the key management services. Does key management services, then, include key certificate issuance? Why would there be an assumption that wave would get any key managmement services, also, where on wave's website is information about key management services? Or server services? Is key management, then, considered a server service? Also, is "key management services" the same endorsement key that barge referenced as having liability issues? What approximate percentage of wave's possible revenue opportunity would key [does this include certificate] management probably constitute for wave?
Okay, found an article about endorsement keys.
http://www.computer.org/computer/homepage/0802/Security/
So would wave then be the certificate authority? How would they set themselves up as such? How would they set themselves up to issue endorsement keys?
Also, I got to a cryptography message board and they seemed to think that the manufacturer would issue [not sure if this is the correct term] the endorsement key for TPMs.
barge, what is an Endorsement Key? What would the potential liability issues for managing them be? What is a "certified TCG server?" How will wave market a "certified TCG server" and to whom? Where and to whom is wave offering its tcg attestation manager? If it's not being offered right now, how can you be so sure that it will be? Am I missing some future services part of the web site? What approximate fee will wave charge for its TCG attestation manager? Its managing of the Endorsement Key?
When you talk about subscribers activating Embassy Services later this year, are you referring to the the document manager and smartsignature services?
rachelelise, thanks for the reply. I greatly appreciate the information. If I could ask another question, how exactly do wave's products port/distribute applications? I keep rereading the ntru release and I don't understand it. NTRU has a software stack [I don't know what this is and googling didn't help; I asked one of my teenagers who's taken several programming courses what one is and he said he didn't know but he may just not want to talk to me] and this software stack interfaces with which of wave's services/products to port/distribute information?
Is Verisign analagous to Wave in some ways? How did other companies just let them become the manager of domain names? Who did they have to coordinate/partner with for this to happen? Is wave trying to become the verisign of key management? TAN management? [Whatever a TAN is.]
And if the volume of TPMs increases, this will affect Wave - how, exactly? More file encryption/client ETS services sold? Who will Wave have to coordinate with to offer more than this service? When, logically, would we start hearing about more services? The ntru/wave software stack will allow wave to distribute apps, and this would happen, how, exactly? A computer programmer for a bank would write an application and then... what? Go to wave or ntru? What is a software stack?
kevins5, so according to your post, wave will hopefully be a distributor of health care, banking, etc apps. Does the partnership with NTRU allow Wave to distribute apps? Could they have before this partnership? Are there any current or potential competitors for this service? If, as Barge says, the oems seem happy with just the file encryption services, will this affect Wave/ntru porting/distributing apps? Am I mixing up apples and oranges somehow? Do the oems have to coordinate with ntru/wave before porting or distributing of apps occurs? How big an opportunity do you see this porting/distributing of apps being for wavx?
What about the key management barge mentioned that had liability issues? Who would Wave have to coordinate/partner with to offer this service? How about the server products?
I guess I'm wondering if/how the "oems don't get it" could throw a wrench into any of wave's plans.
Are we still knocking on the door or are we through some of them, other than in the file encryption area?
edit: Some of this stuff is just getting beyond my low technical knowledge of computers. Peter Lynch wouldn't be happy with me in this investment, which perhaps is why I'm so ready to sell lately. I mean, what, exactly, are the server products wave will be offering?
Larry, in actuality, Martha wouldn't have been charged unless she [allegedly] lied to the government. It's the obstruction of justice charge that got her. The insider trading case is weak, at best. In fact, the Justice Department’s criminal indictment does not charge Stewart with insider trading. Only the SEC’s civil complaint did so. According to published reports, the U.S. Attorney decided going after Stewart would be an “unprecedented” expansion of insider trading law. [Who wouldn't sell when their broker called and recommended it? Martha didn't even know that erbitux's approval had been held up by the FDA.]
So, Kevin_s5, you were at the same lunch as Barge? What did you think about the repeated "the oems don't get it" comments? Didn't you find SKS's lamenting lost opportunities, at the same time he mentioned another company's bankruptcy, somewhat disconcerting? And Barge's extrapolation that the oems are "letting" wave get the basic services/management stuff until they developed similar products.. the idea that the oems themselves will one day be competition for Wave is disquieting.
Aren't we now waiting for server products to appear? Any mention of those?
And Barge mentioned that sks had reasons for not wanting prs out of idf. Fine, but... where's the light at the end of the tunnel for the shareholders? Is it now the end of 2004, with lots of tpms deployed and maybe some revenue numbers? I've held on since 1997, but I seem to be reaching the end of my personal rope. I think it was "the oems don't get it" comments.
Barge: disturbing points: I don't quite know where to start. The OEMs don't get it? He's been saying that for years, and that's not good. They're happy with the basic services? Not good. Wave gets some of the basic utilities for awhile, then the bigger oems will develop their own: not good. SKS isn't going to wallow in self-pity about what might have been: what does this mean? It can't be good.
The only part I liked was Paragraph #3. Revenue opportunities. I haven't sold shares in years but that post was truly discouraging, imho. [And wait til spin reads it - yowsa!]
Hi Spin, my law school was ranked #2 in the nation when I went there. It varies from year-to-year exactly where it is in the top ten.
As for my joining the "other" board, yes, I did, but it's not my board. It's not for me to mention.
Let's see, what else caught my eye in your post? [Sometimes, I'm embarrassed to admit, I just don't make it through all your posts. The phone rings, someone's talking to me, I think, how much longer will this post go on? How much longer, oh god? Is there a god? If so, how can he let these posts run on so long? And while we're at it, what's with that baby with the double head?]
Oh, yes, it's the issue of my wanting you to SPOONFEED the Shiva case, which you researched and brought up, to the board. I did my research. I know what happened to them. But I don't agree with your analysis that this is where Wave is headed. You need to own your own research, and present your own analysis. I'll not walk the show ring for you.
edit. delete.
We get it, CPA, there's risk here.
We get it, KeV, there's risk here.