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The valuation of a stock swap would be AFTER WMI came out of Bankruptcy protection and after disputes between the parties have been settled.
A revaluation of WMI would probably take place and shares would adjust to their 'correct' value prior to any swap. Some estimate anywhere from $8-24 per share.
ya me too, but what can ya do? I think theres a nice x-mas gift around the corner!
is that it?
Am I wrong or is their a decent chance that the $4billion in deposits will be ruled on tomorrow?
Imo a ruling in favor of the FDIC will still bring + pps on this.
Why would WMI go through the hassle of issuing new shares? The shares that are issued are FINE. They'll have plenty of $$ for business operations leaving the commons intact because the value of the shares will reflect the value of the company's ASSETS, which by the way is INCOMPLETE (that is how they were able to enter into BK protection). What will most likely happen IMO is a reverse split after emerging from bankruptcy.
"This guy doesn't have a clue..."
Exactly!! No one in the media has a clue. No one is willing to put the time and effort into this because lets face it...it is freaking confusing!! Think about it. How long would it take for a decent reporter to actually decompile this whole case and actually turn it into something that the public can understand? FOREVER!!
fsshon - that imo is one of the best post of the year!
Im gonna do some more dd....
lol ya that is funny! Good work!
I did speak with my attorney yesterday. His interpretation was that Weil has advised WMI to not list all the assets so that they can stay in Chapter 11 BK. Once they get the 4.4 Billion back, then they will start getting other assets back and the A > L for the reorg plan. He has done BK work for other companies and said Wamu is playing this perfectly.
EXACTLY!!!
This is exactly what Johnny and others are misunderstanding. $1.3 billion in liabilities is relevant of course for the time being, it puts WMI in protection of the BK court until it can get its deposit back and reorganization plan together. The liabilities that are shown currently on the MOR are merely an accounting tactic. If you read the 'fine-print' in the MOR you will see that this is exactly what is going on:
Top of pg 2:
DISCLAIMER:
"Washington Mutual, Inc. ("WMI") and WMI investment Corp. (together, the "Debtors") caution investors and potential
investors in WMI not to place undue reliance upon the information contained in this Monthly Operating Report, which was not prepared for the purpose of providing the basis for an investment decision relating to any of the securities of WMI.
The Monthly Operating Report is limited in scope, covers a limited time period, and has been prepared solely for the purpose of complying with the monthly reporting requirements of the Bankruptcy Court and the United States Trustee.
The Monthly Operating Report was not audited or reviewed by independent accountants; does not purport to present the financial statements of WMI in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles; does not purport to present the market value of WMI's assets and liabilities or the recoverability of WMI's assets; is in a format prescribed by applicable bankruptcy laws; and is subject to future adjustment and reconciliation.[b/]
There can be no assurance that, from the perspective of an investor or potential investor in WMI's securities, the Monthly Operating Report is complete. Results set forth in the Monthly Operating Report should not be viewed as indicative of future results. This disclaimer applies to all information contained herein."
Johnny -
Not sure what it is worth but to me the pdf isn't necessarily reflective of WMI's true assets. In the pdf the disclaimer at the top:
"Washington Mutual, Inc. ("WMI") and WMI investment Corp. (together, the "Debtors") caution investors and potential
investors in WMI not to place undue reliance upon the information contained in this Monthly Operating Report, which was not prepared for the purpose of providing the basis for an investment decision relating to any of the securities of WMI. The Monthly Operating Report is limited in scope, covers a limited time period, and has been prepared solely for the purpose of
complying with the monthly reporting requirements of the Bankruptcy Court and the United States Trustee. The Monthly
Operating Repm1 was not audited or reviewed by independent accountants; does not purport to present the financial statements of WMI in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles; does not purport to present the market value of WMI's assets and liabilities or the recover ability of WMI's assets; is in a format prescribed by applicable bankruptcy laws; and is
subject to future adjustment and reconciliation. There can be no assurance that, from the perspective of an investor or potential
investor in WMI's securities, the Monthly Operating Report is complete. Results set forth in the Monthly Operating Report
should not be viewed as indicative of future results. This disclaimer applies to all information contained herein."
.158 !! go baby go!
Hitting .15's pretty good, a break of .15 and we will run to .16-.175. Go wamu!
nice consolidation...looking for a nice pop this afternoon go wamu
no kidding! i was all excited bout to go make some popcorn....this isn't gonna get ruled for a while i have a feeling.
HAHAHA!!! Didn't see that one coming! lol Lmao!! THE SUSPENSE!!!
See you guys at .05-.10 lol
what are they talking about lol i can't tell.....
same here
had my sell order in for 3 weeks at .0002, just got frustrated and changed it to .0001 to get out and it was executed in 5 secs.
waiting for .10 :)
Im not trying to bash people on this board. I think it would be great to wake up tomorrow to a $1 share price but right now its out of the cards. I have played this very cautiously, done a ton of dd. I sold this morning for the sake of taking profit. I can't sit there and watch this slide.
ENTERING into a trade like this is EXTREMELY easy for most people. Especially those who jump on board because they were influenced by disillusional posters and the kool aid.
What is EXTREMELY difficult for most traders is EXITING a trade. You should know why to exit and at what levels before you enter a trade.
close at .10 imo - not bashing
I got out this morning at .145, still a 110% gain for me, but I had to stick with my trading plan on this one. Wish I took more profit at .40 range but oh well, I have learned a lot on this stock. Trading psychology and being influenced by what others say on a message board should never be overlooked.
No I completely agree, its definitely a delay tactic, but the question is that is there a possibility that the delay tactic is a smokescreen to something bigger at hand? Maybe the money really isn't there. I don't think that is true but I haven't seen any proof through my DD as of yet that JPM has it in their possession. (then again i didn't look THAT hard)
Good luck to ya. Were all in this together.
LOL nice!
lol isn't that the truth! lol
I honestly can't believe that this has dropped as much as it has.
I think a lot of investors jumped on board for the ride without really having a full understanding of the circumstances. Its also worthy to note that just by recognizing the amount of new posters on this board between the time frames of last Septembers hearing til yesterday, there is obviously a lot who bought into this at .20-.30 are selling off to prevent further losses.
I anticipate these ivestors will be watching very carefully for another entry point.
I wish that I sold some at .35-.45 but thats ok. Im averaged at around .07 since April. Oh well :) next time.
Good post. Thanks.
Do we know how the decision is delayed until?
She said it she would rule it under advisement. Correct me if im wrong but under advisement she has up to 90 days to make a decision? I however think her intentions are to rule on this really soon, today or tomorrow, because I think that she would have verbally indicated to the court that there would be a delay to her ruling out of respect to the parties. If this is the case and a ruling is issued today i anticipate it after the market closes. Probably not public till tomorrow, on a friday :)
Just my opinion and speculation.
Exactly!! In my opinion today couldn't of gone any better in WMI's favor. The FDIC really should not of been there. The fact that JPM and FDIC showed up together in court is perfect. They are going to bring themselves down, IMO they are their own worst enemies at this point.
A ruling in WMI's favor will be icing on the cake. Then the fun will begin.
Great post thank you!
Yes it was very interesting. Im sure that the Judge was probably entertained by the whole thing in the back of her mind. Its a show. Why wasn't the FDIC at the last omnibus hearing when the THJMW deemed JPM's arguments 'frivolous'. Its obvious now through today's court proceedings that there is a high level of collusion between JPM and FDIC.
The FDIC definitely does not want WMI to get their hands on any cash.
Even if the 4 billion didn't belong to the holding company, how can the FDIC justify handing the bank to JPM in the terms of 1.9 billion for 4+ billion. That is a joke.
Day traders are spooked....hang on people...still lots of trading to go today. Prob lot more news on this will start to surface as well.
-Judge delays ruling on WaMu turnover request-
Judge hears arguments in fight between WaMu and JPMorgan over deposits
* By Randall Chase, AP Business Writer
* On 12:08 pm EDT, Thursday October 22, 2009
Companies:
o Washington Mutual Inc.
WILMINGTON, Del. (AP) -- The judge presiding over Washington Mutual Inc.'s bankruptcy has delayed a ruling on whether the company is entitled to more than $4 billion in disputed assets.
WMI filed a lawsuit earlier this year seeking to force JPMorgan to turn over deposits that WMI claims it owns.
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. seized the Seattle-based savings and loan last September, then sold it to JPMorgan for $1.9 billion.
JPMorgan contends that a full evidentiary record and trial are needed before the court can determine the rightful owner of the assets.
After hearing more than two hours of arguments Thursday, the judge said she would need some time before ruling on WMI's request for summary judgment.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Judge-delays-ruling-on-WaMu-apf-3748348007.html?x=0&.v=2
Why was the FDIC there today?
Market got spooked at the close, Wells Fargo got downgraded to a sell...
Theres still a 'bear' sentiment overall by shorts in the financial sector.
News of wamu will bring the market right back to where it was a year ago. imo
All a board!
Im glad that you took the loss and got out. This stock isn't for everyone. There is a lot to it and there are a million different trading personalities out there. Everyone's criteria for entering into an investment is different. I have done enough DD on this to feel comfortable in holding my shares til next year.
Entering a trade isn't difficult for alot of people. Exiting is. Sticking to a trading plan is the hardest thing for an individual investor to adhere to. I commend u for that. GL
No body can predict the future.
THJMW is not going to let this continue. She even stated that the argument is 'Frivolous'.
An appeal from JPM attorneys on the summary judgement IMO is expected but will be denied probably right away.
Its simple the facts are there. The judge would rather NOT rule on this and let the parties come to an agreement, but she probably will half to since JPM are babies.
Exactly.
MMs are running this down so they can accumulate as MANY shares as possible. WHY??? Because when the poo hits the fan and the shorts start to BUY BACK (cover) the MM's will have almost complete control on their benefit as to how many shares will be available at a specific price.
Those who are in already are in for the ride.
This is like waiting in line to get on a roller coaster at an amusement park. The wait is really long....but the closer people get to the ride the more terrified they become because the ride looks to scary to them, so they exit the line. MM's are the roller coaster and there's only so many seats available before the next ride. Im riding up front - NO HANDS!!
Ya there were probably a lot of stop loss orders entered at the .19-20 level too. A key price range below the 'support' area on the chart.