Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
I can't believe EOX got themselves in such a position
I almost bought some EOX several months after they did the reverse split a number of months ago. Some articles seemed to indicate that things had changed for the company and were going to get better.
I am glad that I didn't trust such a view after a reverse split with what happened. I also can't believe how companies kept lending to companies like EOX and never letting any profit build up. It is as though everyone thought that nothing would ever go wrong with the price of oil.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Recent 8K and 10Q reports, very bad, company needs to file BK
I just took a look at the June 30, 2015 10Q report: http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=68038234
plus an 8K report of October 13, 2015, about the reduction in the borrowing base:
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=68855341
My observations and comments about both:
1: The borrowing base was reduced to $120 million but the company is is over that by $19.6 million. i.e. The company was not able to pay off enough of the loan to get down the drawing only $120 million.
2: The company has a huge imbalance between current liabilities ($382 million) and current assets ($45 million). The company is also losing million per quarter on top of that, so the assets are probably not worth anywhere near what they are being carried on the books.
The company, unfortunately, looks dead. There is no way they are going to get out of this situation and should have filed bankruptcy months ago. This looks so bad that I think the unsecured liabilities will get zero also when they finally have to file.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Reduction in borrowing base is not good
I have not seen the details, but it would indicate that the assets are not there to allow the borrowing. I expect this is a sign that the company is heading into bankruptcy, especially with such a large decrease in assets, reflected in the decline in the borrowing base.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
CDEL and convertibles
I do not think they are in control of the convertibles, but they are probably the firm that the trade is routing through. It is the only reasonable explanation as to why they never seem to run out of shares to sell.
If it was normal retail investors, I would expect to see their block of shares to run down and then out after a while, not to always be refilled to 500,000 all the time.
I expect we will see 8K reports within a week or two detailing how many shares have been or are being converted.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
No one wants to buy
The problem is not that no one wants to sell at these levels, the problem is that no one wants to buy at these levels.
In order for the stock to get some volume again, sellers are going to have to lower the price they are willing to sell at.
This could be the start of the end for the company. Once the volume starts to drop off, in this case zero shares traded, then the price has to start coming down, otherwise nothing trades.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Shares on the ask
The times that I have look, it is usually a few hundred million shares with nothing on the bid. While my original 'hundreds of millions' on the ask is incorrect, at this instant in time, I do not think it makes anyone feel better that is trying to sell and recover anything from their investment. It also shows how bad off the stock is trading if it can't 'blow through' only $6,100 worth of shares ( 61MM shares times $0.0001 = $6,100 ) Yahoo shows the three month daily average for the number of shares traded each day as under 780K, so it would take over three months ( with 23 trading days per month) to work through even 'only' 61 million shares before the bid/ask could rise to $0.0001/$0.0002 and get the stock trading again.
I expect that over time the number of shares on the ask will increase as people realize that the common shares have no rights to anything in the company, and are nothing more than a pathway for the preferred shares to cash out.
There is no excuse for the filings being late like this. The company appears to have virtually no operations and no assets to pay for the filings with. I think there is a real possibility that the company may never file any reports ever again.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Late filing? The company may never file again!
The filing may not be late, it may be that they are never going to file anything again.
If the retail market for the common shares is dead, because of the overhang of hundreds of millions of shares on the ask at $0.0001 with zero share at $0.0000 on the bid; there is no reason to bother with filings or appearances. The convertible debt holders can't convert (or it makes not sense to do so) since they can't sell the shares.
Even a reverse split at this point may not get this trading again since there are probably many retail investors that would sell at market to get whatever they can for their shares.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
So this will likely go to .0001? Yes it will
I expect they will keep converting preferred shares into common shares until they can't sell the common shares anymore; and that will not happen until the stock drops to $0.0001 on the ask and zero on the bid.
Even if, by some chance the retail market keeps buying all of the converted shares and the number preferred shares starts to 'run low', the preferred holders will just get more preferred shares issued to themselves, which they will then proceed to convert into truckloads of common shares, which will then be dumped at once on the retail market.
The preferred share holders will just keep converting and dumping common shares until the retail market can't/won't buy anymore.
The only reason this company exists anymore is as a mechanism for the preferred shareholders to dump truckloads of common shares into the retail market, and allow the preferred shareholders to 'cash out' at the expense of the retail market.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Authorized shares increased to 4 billion
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=68831361
Yes, they did increase the authorized shares to 4 billion common shares on October 9. They did not even need a shareholder vote since insiders control over 60% of the votes.
I am expecting, in the weeks to come, that they will convert the preferred shares into hundreds of millions of common shares, which will then be dumped into the retail market.
There is no need for them to hold onto any of the converted shares since they will still control the company through the preferred shares that they will hold onto for a while, at least until they dump all of the other converted shares.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Anything going on today with SUNE?
Is there anything going on today? It looks like the stock started falling from the open. Right now, at 10:04am, it looks like it is off 5% or so. Is this normal for this stock?
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Speculative opinion verse objective opinion based on facts
What is happening is not some kind of guess or speculation. It is an objective fact from the companies own SEC reports.
Risk would imply that there is some way that the company could make money, but the 10Q/K reports all show the company is insolvement, with losses every quarter and equity negative. Over time the company will continue to lose more money and get deeper in debt, until there arrives at a point that no one wants to do business with the company. There is no way out for the company.
When the 'truckloads' of common shares start to get converted from the preferred series, there is no way the current retail market will be able to absorb hundreds of millions of shares on the ask, without cratering the price. This is similar to the process that happened over at HDSI. People were posting about it back in April/May 2015 when almost every week there was another 8K report filed detailing all of the preferred shares being converted in common shares. Now that company stopped filing (officially the company is late in filing but the company appears to have zero revenue and no operations so why would there by any delay in filings?) and many days the stock does not trade at all, with hundreds of millions of shares on the ask at $0.0001 and no shares at zero on the bid. (The automated system only allows four decimal places so unless someone places an order through the phone to a trading desk, you can't offer to sell for less than $0.0001 in order to hope to sell the shares.)
Louis J. Desy Jr.
repost new message
Louis J. Desy Jr.
It is true, one preferred share converts into 1000 common shares
It is most certainly true. The alleged reason this is done (1000 to 1 conversion) is to get financing for the company and compensate the preferred for the financing risk.
The real reason is so they can control the company while printing money for themselves with the common stock being sold off to the retail public. (If the common shares were so valuable, because the company had value, the preferred would want to hold onto the common shares after the conversions, instead the converted common shares will be dumped into the retail market as fast as the trading volume in FROT can absorb it.)
They are going to covert everything possible that the retail market will take of the converted common stock, as fast as possible, before the stock mins out at $0.0001 and no one will buy the shares.
These things happen, because unfortunately, there are enough retail investors that will by the shares, allowing the preferred A share holders to make as much as 1000% in a few weeks, on a company that is, for all practical purposes, bankrupt.
At some point, when even the retail will not longer by the shares, the company will stop reporting and way in the future, probably get delisted. That is what happened over at AWEC, they had something like seven series of preferred shares before they stopped reporting and then eventually got delisted.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Structure is really nice?
I do not think the structure is good at all.
1: They (preferred A shares holders) can convert into 350 million shares of common stock, sell off about 300 million shares at $0.001 for $300,000 and still have total control of the company.
2: Even after getting 350 million shares, they still have millions in preferred A that they can convert into more common shares, once they get the authorized share count raised. There is nothing that the common shares can do to stop this.
3: They didn't even put any cash into the company. They converted $14,400 of debt into preferred shares, so the company is no better off; plus they make $300,000 on $14,400 that was owed to them.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
MASSIVE DILUTION -Preferred shares issued and can control company
8K report detailing that preferred shares have been issued:
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=68812651
Series A preferred shares have been issued in the amounts of 3,840,000 preferred A shares plus another 1,920,000 preferred A shares were issued.
From the amended May 31, 2015 quarterly report:
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=67869358
The shares were issued at the cost of $0.0025/share (one quarter of a cent per share). Preferred A shares can be converted into common stock at the rate of one preferred shares for one thousand common shares.
The total number of preferred shares issued was 5,760,000. If all of the shares were converted into common shares, that would be 5,760,000,000 shares. According to the last 10Q report, there were only 53 million common shares issued with 450 million common shares authorized.
This means that if the preferred shares convert 54,000 preferred A into 54,000,000 common shares, they will control the company.
It also means that is the preferred A convert 397,000 A shares into common shares, they will have all of the remainder of the available common stock that can be issued; 396,001,884 common shares and the existing stockholders would own less than 12% of the voting shares.
I am expecting that there will be an increase in the authorized shares to all the preferred shares to be able to convert all of their shares into common shares.
I am predicting, based on the massive number of shares that we can expect to be converted, that at some point the company common shares will 'peg out down' at $0.0001 on the ask with hundreds of millions of shares for sale, but nothing on the bid (no shares offered at any price), due to the automated trading systems being limited to four decimal places.
I would suggest that anyone hold common shares may want to sell and get what they can while the stock still trades.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
New to Sunedison
I am new to Sunedison. I saw the zerohedge article on it ( http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-05/bad-news-piles-hedge-fund-hotel-sunedison-first-315mm-margin-call-now-mass-layoffs ), bringing up the possibility that they might need to come up with an additional $400 million in cash to cover a possible 'collateral call' if the value continued to decline. I even bough some short dated put options far out of the money (expire this Friday) in case that does happen, and to give me more time to look at the details. I intend to buy some longer dated put options, like to the end of 2015 or into Q1 2016, depending on how the stock is trading on Friday.
I may also make a long dated put option purchase, like into 2017 or 2018, with the expectation of the company being in bankruptcy.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
What to look for in the asset sales
In order to see if the assets are worth enough to cover the debt, look to see if they book any gains or losses on the sale of the assets. I am expecting that they are going to book losses on the sale of assets, meaning that the asset does not cover the debt they used to buy/build the asset.
This is assuming that they sell the asset to a true 'arms length' transaction and not some kind of related company, where they can inflate the sale to make the asset look valuable.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Debt is backed by assets
True, all of the debt is back by assets. The problem is that they seem to be losing money on all of their assets, meaning that the assets are probably not worth enough to cover the debt.
That is where the problem is. If the assets had enough value to cover the debt, or was worth more than the debt it covered, they could sell a few assets, pay of its debt, and have some money left over; instead it looks like they need to be borrowing to 'keep the doors open'.
Louis J Desy Jr.
Long term, they are dead
While it is good that the project is being canceled, the reason is not a good one. The problem is that they can't come up with the money.
Long term they are dead. They are losing all kinds of money every quarter. Even with the job cuts of 1,000 people; at $100,000 per person, that would only save $100 million per year. They lose that amount of money every one or two months.
I expect by the end of 2016 that the company will be in bankruptcy, since with $632 million in stockholders equity as of June 30, 2015; and they are losing around $250 million per quarter, they will be 'under water' by hundreds of millions by the end of 2016. sometime before that I expect there will be collateral calls on their loans that they will not be able to meet.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
What I am seeing from the latest 10Q
10Q for period ending June 30, 2015:
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=68228817
1: On a reporting basis, the company is losing money. The company reported a loss of $99,812 for three months ending 06-30-2015; and a loss of 180,650 for the six month period.
2: From the cash flow statement, Net cash used in operating activities was a negative $168,848; and company cash decreased by the same amount for the June 30, 2015 quarter.
For the six months the Net cash used in operating activities was a negative $608,151, that was partly offset by a sale for $400,000 of oil properties, but that still left a cash loss of $208,151 for the six months.
I do not see anywhere that the company is turning any kind of profit. Most common financial measurements and reporting show the company losing money.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Cash flow positive?
How are they 'cash flow positive'?
By everything I have seen, it looks like they are losing money on an accrual and cash basis from the 10Q financial statements.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Paying taxes on illegal income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_illegal_income_in_the_United_States
Don't forget, people have to pay taxes on illegal income. It is one of the ways that charges are 'piled on' when someone is involved in an illegal activity. In some crimes the people can't get convicted of the 'base crime' because there is not enough to get a conviction, but they can prove there was income that was not declared and convict the person of that. That is how Al Capone got convicted. The time he was in jail his health declined and by the time he was out he was not the same person anymore.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
That is not a good sign.
What is going on if no one can get a hold of anyone at the company?
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Making the debt whole
The problem is that the company is/was out of cash and has no way to pay interest on the debt for those years, either in the past or going forward in the future. It was one of the reasons that company did the Dec 2014 equity offering for $20 million, they were almost out of cash.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
APP competitor that's not flirting with BK?
I think all of them are flirting with BK (or are in BK). While some of the problems were not foreseeable or within their control, like the effect of Internet on retail and shopping malls, the other part of the problem is that when there is a 'hot' brand, all of them 'ran out' and borrowed as much as possible to expand as much as possible.
When things were going well and they were all riding high on the brand name, everything in the stock prices was priced for perfection with no room for errors or problems. When the downturn comes or the brand is not as popular anymore, it is all over for the company.
What I find amazing is that when things are going well, no one at the company steps back for a moment and seems to think that maybe they should not expand as fast, and let retained earnings build up, instead the company 'runs out' and borrows everything it can get its hands on and spends in a massive expansion plan.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Shorting stocks under $1/share
Most retail brokers will not let their customers initial a short with the stock at under $5/share or have such high reserve requirements, like $2.50/share, that you can't make any money.
I can see a market maker shorting this or a firm since at some point the company will just 'implode' and go to zero, but they take a risk that there is a short squeeze and get hammered in the run up.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
High gross margins?
I find it amazing that they can go bankrupt with what must be high gross margins on the clothes they sell. I just took a look at the webs site. Shirt and shorts were in the $30 to $50 range, pants $70 to $80 and some pants are almost $150. I expect the margin on the clothes in over 80%, and probably over 90%. I think it costs them more for advertising and retail store space in their own stores than it does to make the clothes. But they apparently found a way to 'mess it all up'.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Standard General, RSHCQ and other train wrecks
I was starting to wonder about that also. It seems that everything Standard General is involved in turns into a train wreck for itself within a matter of months. Standard General managed the whole RSHCQ situation so bad that they have managed to almost completely wipe out the unsecured liabilities and run the risk of even cutting into the secured debt that they own at some point.
The whole idea of limiting RSHCQ to being able to close only 200 stores per year made no sense to me. The reason given is that Standard General wanted to ensure there was enough inventory to cover their loans, but the inventory could have been stored in a warehouse and all of the stores that were losing money, closed, and RSHCQ would be a lot better off. Instead, Standard General demanded the money losing stores stay open, making the financial situation much worse.
It is as though someone is deliberately arranging it that way, like someone within the company is doing 'stupid deals' for some reason (self sabotage?, some kind of personal problems interfering with decision making process?, some kind of power struggle within Standard General so that a faction within Standard General is using problems with deals like RSHCQ to gain over another faction?, or something else that we have no way of telling from the outside) , to make it so Standard General could lose a lot of money. It is possible that maybe it is just a 'bad run of luck', but the kind of people that Standard General is supposed to be hiring are supposed to be people who have the 'golden touch', they always make money no matter what; instead they seem to have people that have the 'lead touch', everything they touch turns to lead.
Normally, a company like Standard General should be almost assured of making money in deals like this, even if the company goes bust, by making sure that there is such a wide margin of safety on their parts of the financing, that they would still come out whole, plus a profit. Instead, Standard General looks like its partnership could be at risk, since even if they still come out whole, and with a profit, who would want to stay in such a fund that seems to always be in the middle of a mess and at risk to lose their money?
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Cramdown and equity
The problem with stopping a cramdown or proposing another plan, is how do you make all of the other classes that are higher in priority, whole?
The problem is there is no way to do it unless you just exchange all of the secured and unsecured liabilities for new debt, but then the company would be in the same position as it is now, in addition to having incurred all kinds of bankruptcy expenses.
I also see the possibility that the company may run out of cash and be unable to complete any reorganizaton since it looks like the company operations are 'burning cash' at the rate of $1 million per month.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Common shares look dead / expect common to be wiped out
10Q for quarter ending May 31, 2015:
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=66814370
I just took a quick look at the latest 10Q report. Equity is over $144 million negative. I am expecting the common shares will be wiped out in the reorganization.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Another Standard General train wreck
I see a notice that American Apparel just filed for bankruptcy.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Get a bid filled?
Who and why is anyone buying FROT at any price?
There is nothing here for the common shares with stockholders equity negative at $1.7 million, and the company losing money every quarter.
Revenue is so low that someone could get a minimum wage job and show more 'revenue' each month than this company.
What I find even stranger from more reading of the balance sheet, is that a related party loaned the company another $1.1 million after it burned through the $500K in initial capital plus additional paid in capital; so after raising over $1.6 million in financing, the company only has about $75K in land and property to show for it. The company would have been better off not doing anything except buying a 10 year treasury bond and living off of the interest to file quarterly reports, at least the principal would still be there.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Am I reading the financial reports correctly?
I just took a look at the latest 10Q for May 31, 2015.
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=67767660
I have two questions:
1: Am I reading the reports correctly? It looks like the company did less than $2K in revenue for the quarter, but spent $170K on salaries, and only has land carried on the books for $72K?
2: Why is anyone buying these shares? Assuming the financial reports are correct, the company is hopelessly insolvent and should be liquidated. The company pay salaries that are multiple of its revenue and is never going to make any money.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Like a scene out of Atlas Shrugged?
I had hope that the SCOTUS would reverse the appeals court decision by at least hearing the appeal, but am not surprised that they let it stand.
With this decision, what is the point of bothering to do work and get a patent, when anyone can just take your work for no compensation?
I remember reading that the inventor of the cotton gin was getting 'ripped off' by everyone copying his idea, even though there was a patent on the device. (To build one you just needed wood and nails in the proper arrangement so it was hard to stop people from copying it.) The one good thing is that one of the states did think it was unfair what was happening, and was glad to have the invention, so that state legislature voted him a royalty of something like a few thousand. (It was colonial era so that would be like getting at least several hundred thousand today.)
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Why should the existing common shares get anything?
The existing common systematically ran the company into the ground over several quarters, to the point where the unsecured liabilities may end up with zero, and even the DIP financing, which has super priority, may start to have losses. Apparently, the reward the existing common shareholders have in mind for the DIP financing is that they too should suffer a loss from lending money to the company in its hour of need.
The existing common shares are 8th in line for priority in recovery, yet think they deserve to be compensated for allowing this financial disaster to happen?
The debtor can easily make the argument that the existing common shares should be wiped out, and considering that the existing common shares do not appear to want to make any kind of deal that would allow the unsecured liabilities to be paid ahead of them; there is no other option. At best a cramdown for the warrants, and at worst a new plan submitted with the common wiped out, which then will have to be a cram down anyways.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Why the comparison with FROT?
What is so special about the condition of FROT that makes it valid to compare with UAPC? There are lots of companies in the OTCBB that are in the same or worse condition than FROT. You make it seem like that companies in the condition of FROT are rare or unusual on the OTCBB, plus that somehow being 'less worse off' is a sign of financial health. Many of the companies are there (OTCBB) because they can not meet the expenses of the higher reporting requirements or are near the end of their business life.
Just because UAPC is better in some measures than FROT does not mean that it is a good investment. The big difference between FROT and UAPC that I can see, is just that UAPC will take longer to go out of business than FROT. Both are financially dead, it is just that one is dying faster than the other.
We will be able to easily see this as the quarters go on, the losses continue to pile up, until UAPC reaches the point that no one will lend it any more money, and it can't file its reports anymore. While it may take a few years, it is going to happen at some point in the future. Before that point, I expect the shares will probably min out at $0.0001 and stop trading when no one wants to buy any shares, as revenue, along with production decline.
I am amazed that anyone would buy any shares of UAPC at any price, especially in light of the preferred shares that control over 50% of the votes.
The best thing that UAPC could do would be to liquidate as soon as possible so it does not end up not being able to pay its vendors. The common shares are already dead, beyond help, and can not be saved; but at least the company can do is to not take money owed to its vendors down with it also, and thereby endanger those companies also with unpaid bills at some point in the future.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Class 8 - Existing Common shares rejects plan
Document #1107 details the existing common shares as class 8 rejecting the plan.
I was not expecting that to happen, so I looked to see what could happen next.
One of two things can now happen:
1: The debtors can amend the plan, and go through the whole process again of collecting votes and try to get a modified plan accepted. I do not expect the debtors will bother with that. The problem is that there is no indication that the existing common share class would approve anything short of retaining most of the equity in NewCo, making it almost impossible for the secured debtors to ever get their money back.
2: The debtors can file for a cramdown, and force the existing plan of reorganization. While it may take a while, I expect this is what will be done. It is possible that it will take so long to do this that the company will not be able to complete its plan of reogranization since that plan is dependent on there being $25 million in cash available for NewCo.
Link for cramdown explanation:
http://www.fjc.gov/federal/courts.nsf/autoframe?OpenForm&nav=menu4c&page=/federal/courts.nsf/page/265?opendocument
cramdown -- in bankruptcy, court confirmation of a Chapter 11 plan despite the opposition of certain creditors.
There is also a possibility that an amended plan may be filed that wipes out the existing common, with no warrants, as 'retaliation' for delaying the plan of reorganization by not approving the plan. I can only see this happening is if the secured debtors want to put 'people on notice in the future' that when they have money in a bankruptcy (DIP financing) that if the classes do not go along with what they consider fair, that they would then retaliate and wipe those classes out in the plan. While a brutal way to conduct business, it would tend to put everyone on notice in future deals what would happen for needlessly delaying things, and hurting other classes in the plan.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
FROT vs UAPC comparison
While FROT may be better than UAPC on some measures, that does not mean that UAPC is a 'good' investment. (Better just means that it will stay in business longer, not that it will make any money for the common shares.) My view is that it just means that FROT will be out of business sooner than UAPC.
The $2 million is reserves is only accurate if oil is at and stays about $90/barrel. So far, in the first year of the reserve report, we are only at about half of that number, which means the reserve calculation is too high.
While the revenue for UAPC is better than FROT, UAPC is still losing money and production is dropping.
I expect as time goes on, that UAPC will have more losses and be unable to raise cash. At some point UAPC will run out of cash and have to file for Chap 11 reorganization or liquidate.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Tuttle motion to prosecute and comparison with DUNRQ
I did notice within the orders at DUNRQ, that there was mention of all motions not "withdrawn or resolved are overruled"
https://cases.primeclerk.com/duneenergy/Home-DownloadPDF?id1=MTkxMjc2&id2=0
DUNRQ Document#555, page 4:
"All objections to confirmation of the Plan not withdrawn or otherwise resolved at or before the Confirmation Hearing are expressly overruled"
I expect the plan confirmation order for ANVGQ will contain similar language, at which point things like the Tuttle motions with be 'dead', with no more allowed.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Value of warrants
I gave a calculation of what the value of the company would need to be in order to have any value, along with a conversion calculation to show how at different values the warrants (and by extension the existing common preconversion) could be view as to their value.
My expectation is that the common in NewCo will never trade high enough to have any value. I expect Newco enterprise value will never be over $400 million, which is where Newco needs to be in order for the existing secured and unsecured liabilities to be made whole before the existing common converted into warrants can have value.
Louis J. Desy Jr.