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Thanks! (Do you sleep at all?)
I looked up the DIME stipulation: http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229120213000000000011.pdf
They get 9 Million Dollars plus 8,77% of the commons part of the NewCo Stock as of the stipulation date.
That would be 8,77% of 60 million or 5.262 Million shares of NewCo. For any share of this equity portion that they loose due to changes (the 5% election of the creditors or a change of the 70/30 split) they get $0.20 cash added to their 9 million dollar claim up to a cap of $1 million.
Lets see:
If the creditors pick their 5 % (10 million shares of NewCo) DIME would get 8,77% of 57 million shares = 5 million shares of NewCo.
And if the Prefs get 100/0 of 95% they would loose all shares and get 1 million cash added to their $9 million.
Thats how i understand it. But no guarantees here. Just my humble opinion.
How did you come up with that number?
We might hear something in todays hearing regarding the split but in that post i was referring to a scenario clawman had been discussing (RE what would be the increase in share price if the split were to change from 70/30 to 100/0).
Its still 1.8 Billion of Face value who opted out and they will go after JPM.
I never understood the 50 million "bribe" by JPM to TPS. Its more of an insult. imo
No. Its a 100/0 scenario.
I couldnt find any statement regarding the detailed vote of the prefs on the plan but see here: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=72095717
page 291, just a few prefs didnt grant the releases.
Yeah, they gave the JPM the finger. Right on!
But they can grant releases until the 28th of february.
I think its $1.8 Billion TPS. Thats huge!
See page 291 of the PDF: http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229120213000000000026.pdf
There are not all locked. Like mine for instance.
Hm...the preferreds should be moving up in my opinion since class 19 rejected the plan: http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229120213000000000026.pdf
EDIT!
they said (hard to believe)if i want to keep the shares (converted) i have to reject the plan on item 2...
Anybody experiencing problems with Deutsche Bank?
They are driving me mad. They didnt send me any ballots at first and after my request they sent me the wrong ones and now they are saying i am too late because i missed their internal deadline by one hour (because they failed to sent me the ballots - i had to download them myself!). Of course there is ample time to give the releases but they refuse to act.
One of the biggest banks in the world...
Thanks a lot for setting up the ballots for every class. Couldnt find the prefs ballots at KCLLC and my broker (Deutsche Bank) sent me the wrong ones.
Cheers,
maekuz
$5 is a tough call, but i see $10 by Feb 9 because thats when the real panic sets in.
Plus: Some people get nervous because they havent got a ballot yet and start selling off.
It is Part of the settlement EC/SNH.
We get the NewCo and they Walk away clean.
Not yet. I am with Deutsche Bank. But I am not worried, its too early. I think it will be in the mail next week.
But as we've seen over the past 3.5 nothing is guaranteed here, and equity has a lot of enemies that probably won't leave us alone in WMI2.
Yup! I just read the other post by radiumsoup. Now i get it.
Thats quite a lot! The EC indicated that they expect quite a return from the liquidating trust. I dont see how regarding this volume.
Of course we will go after GS, Moodys, etc. but i see the settlements of those business tort claims in the tens of millions not hundreds. That may lead to 100 or 200 million in the end, but 400 or more?
I would love to see the idea behind those numbers. Maybe i am lacking fantasy and insight. Or both.
Cheers,
maekuz
Thats my understanding as well.
This is what i dont understand: If you control a Hedgefund of $4B you are a cocky MF...i mean...those guys must be confident by default. And they get $50M in this settlement. I would expect them fighting tooth and nail.
But the TPS Letter reads as If they are going to give releases.
For the first time in this case all parties are included in a truly global agreement/settlement (although the parties differ regarding the details). The judge appreciates this a lot.
If preferreds were to decide if U holders get anything you would be running the risk of U holders getting nothing. If u holders get nothing they dont have to release their claims (and the agreement/settlement is off). No one wants that. Especially not the judge.
About 35% of the NewCo is going solely to the REIT Series (TPS).
And they are not happy with the 70/30 split. And a lot of the Ps and Ks are probably not amused either.
Therefore i think she will consider it.
I would love to get my hands on those 2 lounge chairs they're giving away...
But then again TPS would probably object due to APR...
Here is what i am thinking:
This is the tricky part:
15 grand into EK at .38 and selling at .80 2 days later this week you would be at 31 grand. And so on and so forth.
I agree with that estimate (over $100/P-share in 2 years time).
But then again: Dont forget the short term play - TPS (will they grant releases?) and the possibility of a change in the ratio (70/30).
I know the market doesnt but I like the outlook of the Ps and the Ks.
What i meant is that for getting shares in NewCo Qs are overvalued. Ps and Ks have a (significantly) better conversion rate than the Qs. There are other reasons for holding Qs, e.g. trading short term or not granting releases (and going after JPM/FDIC by oneself) or speculating the POR wont be approved. Anyway, getting shares in NewCo shouldnt be the reason for holding or buying Qs.
Let alone that there is a risk that the ratio of 70/30 might be changed.
Just my humble opinion. I have been wrong before. Many times.
I think Deutsche Bank does. Im not a 100% sure but i think i got ballots from them the last time.
EDIT: I mean maxblue by Deutsche Bank
Just my very, very humble opinion:
Ps and Ks are valued at a NewCo-Value between 170-200M which seems correct to me given the fact that the plan is not confirmed yet and this case has proven to take surprising turns.
Qs are overvalued at the moment. Its the old hype still in place.
There are tolling agreements. Those are a good sign for settlements in the near or midterm future.
IF there are hidden assets, they will show in the NewCo. But thats a big IF.
People here are hoping, that this will be a K-Mart (hidden assets mysteriously appearing post-BK). But i dont see that. The $30B Claims which Nelson were referring to were claims against JPMC and FDIC, if i remember that correctly. Those claims are gone once we leave BK.
At least thats my understanding and in my very humble opinion the value will come through claims against Goldmann Sachs and successfully exploiting the NOLs.
No one knows because its not determined yet.
See the DS (p. 27):
1.88 Dime Warrants: Those certain Litigation Tracking Warrantsâ„¢ for
shares of Dime Inc. common stock based on the value of the recovery in the Anchor Litigation,
which warrants, as a result of the merger of Dime Inc. into WMI, are exchangeable for and into
shares of Common Equity Interests in WMI upon certain conditions and whose share count, for
purposes of calculating Pro Rata Share of distributions and the number of shares of Reorganized
Common Stock to be reserved in the Disputed Equity Escrow, shall be determined by dividing
the amount of the Claim by the per share price of WMI common stock as of either (a) the
Petition Date, as if the Trigger Event, as defined in the Dime Warrant Litigation, had not
occurred, (b) the close of business on the day immediately preceding the Petition Date, (c)
December 12, 2011, as if the Trigger Event had not occurred, (d) the Petition Date, as if the
Trigger Event had occurred, (e) December 12, 2011, as if the Trigger Event had occurred, or (f)
such other date as determined by the Bankruptcy Court.
I agree, its an optimistic assumption.
Thanks for Your input, especially the last days and weeks. Your postings are level-headed and helped me to reflect and understand this bankcruptcy proceedings better.
Thanks again.
They have been robbed of $4B and they have money to litigate their claim. If i was in their shoes i would pursue those parties.
I am assuming that TPS will vote no and will not grant any releases. It is my understanding that in this case (no releases given), TPS will not be entitled to shares of newco.
Could you please explain how do you get $18.60 for Ps?
Starting with the assumption that the newco shares start with $1 per share means preferred shares get $133 Million of newco shares.
Assuming TPS is out of the equation that leaves Ps and Ks with $133M for $3.5B nominal face value. That makes Ps $38 (=$1.000x$133/$3.500)and Ks $0,95 (=$25x$133/$3.500).
Thoughts anyone?
Me as well, but there is a $4B 'No-Vote' by TPS.
Chart looks good for a start.
And to the contrary someone is losing her mind on the other board.