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Consider first for the record that the pps has been artificially held down while the float has all been quietly bought up. Next consider a favorable ruling across the board for WMI et al plus damages then calculate the pps and tell us what you find.
You're right, there was no leak. Just an outright confession by JPM that they have to give it all back. And that was just a prelude of what's in store for JPM.
The roof is coming off next week, better quit kidding yourself and get in.
Nice find grey.
Thanks. No biggie though lol.
I was just noticing earlier that the MM's were unable to drop the lod below open price as they have been doing lately and the volume was up. Also .10 seems to be a number they need to hold in anticipation of a rush to cover. Which is on the way.
Nice volume coming in.
Bingo!
Come on MM's let's close this at a dime. You know as well as we do that anything under .25 here is a bargain.
in fact anything under a dollar is ridiculously cheap.
I'm in. Is the name of Spooz/141 legal council published anywhere? If we can find a corporate attorney and appoint a spokesperson to inquire on behalf of a group of concerned Spooz shareholders we may get some answers.
Right. The fact that pink sheets is not an exchange makes it next to impossible for the small individual retail investor to win. The MM's/financiers have the game rigged.
Don't know about the other guy you mention.
GLTY
Problem is, in the pinks, you can't always believe what you see.
My buys have been painted as sells and vice versa. The small sells you mention followed by large so called sells is just what the MM's may want you think while they load up. Their large buy orders are filed when their small bid whacks bring the price down and the MM's grab handfuls at bid for their clients but they show the transaction as a sell which makes people think the pps is going down. Until it comes off pinks, it's all manipulation. We can only hope the trading price of this stock is being watched. Normally the SEC would not be concerned with a pink's pps but this pink sheet is just a little different.
Look for .10 EOD here.
I wouldn't worry about it vicsteel.
No doubt someone just taking profit and riding free shares.
And as SSV said, those shares were bought at the ask which indicates which way the pressure is headed.
Nice try though.
Well said fsshon
We know the facts in the case. We know the Judge is fair minded. We know there isn't a logical argument to defend the seizure. We know this because If there were a logical argument we would have heard it by now.
IMO key persons in involved in this fiasco realize they have a bit of a "watergate" on their hands and they know they have to fess up to it soon, the Judge said so. It was a piece of tape, a "paper trail" if you will that led to the demise of Nixon. A trail was left behind by insiders when they bugged the Democratic National Headquarters aka Watergate. The reason I mention this is because once the WMI story gets into the press.....well, we saw the spectacle the media made of the paper trail left by Nixon.
And now because of a paper trail left behind by JPM insiders we know who robbed WMI and the clock is ticking on them to come clean. Call it restitution (my word) but I agree that the time spent now by council is to arrive at a mutually agreeable figure above the original $8.00 bid and they have just a couple of days left to finish things up for Judge W.
All the rest of the work that needs to be done to contain the flak and mesh what's salvageable will take considerable time but the process of restoring and propping the pps back up is just around the corner.
Go WaMu!!!!!!
Using the argument of comparing WaMu to other pink sheet stocks, we have seen only a small walk down here over the last couple of weeks and that is in spite of the low volume. Normally once the sizzle of a rumored pink sheet PR is injected into the pps then followed by the requisite selling on news, the MM's can stretch the pps like taffy milking the volume for all the spread they can get while they kill the run.
In WaMu's case, Judge Walrath's considered rulings will carry far more weight then any pink sheet PR would carry. As a result, we will not see the immediate selloff you would normally associate with a pink play. There is just too much on the table here.
So IMO, what makes WaMu different from your garden variety pink sheet is what is on the table with WaMu. Instead of a PR, when the Judge"s rulings come down in favor of WMI/WaMu then throw in short coverage and sideliners coming in and the pps will see .18 to .25 after a day or two and stick. From there it seeks pre-seizure status and higher.
Just my two cents.
GLTA
Thanks allie. That seems to be the consensus here.
Play the chart while the company works it's plan. Let's hope they make some noise this time. It's starting to sound like the "virtual exchange" that I read about here before.
GLTY
GT
Co-mingled funds is not relative to the argument at hand. On the contrary, It's an attempt by JPM's council to wriggle out of the suit. The co-mingling of funds occurred after the fact. Did people actually expect JPM to say..."oh gee, you caught us red handed" and hand over the booty? I don't think so. Co-mingling the aftermath of the robbery is what JPM now hopes to confuse the courts with. Judge Walrath is not amused I'm sure.
Consider for a moment the impact of the Judges decisions in this case. This case isn't about a BK pink sheet company. This case is about the private American Central Banking System cannibalizing one American Icon for the benefit of another American Icon. The decision was hastily conceived and executed behind closed doors without regard to shareholder or the publics best interest.
I'm not worried about minor (trader) pps fluctuations here because the upcoming Judge's rulings will affect the pps far more than any PR put out by any pink sheet CEO. Based on my DD, I will just accumulate and hold.
The PR sounds terrific. Maybe they finally got it right.
Successful launch of their newest brainchild is the only thing that will offset the dilution that's killed them in the past. Let's hope they actually have their new business plan right this time.
If they are actually trading and making money on their own and have little or no employee/office overhead they could be gobbling up shares for themselves. With the right exposure, their new business plan could really take off.
Agreed.
IMO, there has to be some kind of agreement or settlement between the parties. Who takes the hit for what is the question for the Judge.
Because one can't unscramble an egg and put things back the way they were and because WaMu has to be made as close to whole as can be done, how does the Judge fix it? We've all heard the phrase "too big to fail" is it possible to be "too big to be made to pay"?
It doesn't look like the Judge thinks that way. Just a little longer and it will all be history.
No. All Saabs are inline 4 cyl engines while all Subarus are flat (like a box) opposing 4 cyl engines some times called a "pancake motor" Early Beetles and Porsche engines are Boxters. Porches can be 4 or 6 cylinder boxters. VW's and Porches were air cooled. Subaru and newer Porches are water cooled. Porches also have 6 cylinder inline engines. I've owned them all. I absolutely loved the GM 3800 series ll motors. A very capable and virtually bullet proof 6 cylinder. I actually thought of taking out the V8 in a Yukon for example and putting in a GM 3800 series ll transaxle assembly. I like the size of the Yukon and for my purposes running down to the store in 2wd with the 3800 to grab a fifth of milk or some tuna for the cats or something would do just fine and I would benefit from the better MPG :)
Too bad GM didn't listen lol.
Opinions Issued By Judge Mary F.Walrath
http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/Opinions/opinions_walrath.htm
Seems to be a fair minded Judge w/o any political hangups.
A coherent post 6wheels.
Think about it. This is a historical event with an experienced BK Judge presiding over very proficient BK council with the financial world looking on including the eyes of Texas watching the outcome.
The only thing that can get to the Judge in this case (as some have suggested) is to do the right thing. The Judge and every other legal eagle and business scholar watching this precedent know the decision that is to be finally rendered will be a decision that is to be cast in concrete for all the world to see. It can not be unjust or undone.
In my opinion I would suggest to keep the underlying fundamentals of the stock in mind here with regard to what was here before the seizure then consider what took place and decide if the deal went down as WaMu council purports or as JPM council purports?
The above may be a concept not recognized by some pink sheet traders. Some are accustomed to talking down the pps of the pinks they like in order to get their re-entry for another flip. This pps however seems to be in a 3 way tug of war with the longs, MM's and the shorts (with some crossover) The shorts (some MM's) need it down until the last minute so they can cover on the cheap. The longs just aren't giving any up and the other MM's are trying to make a market running it up or down on the spread with little volatility and little luck.
Been seeing all the chatter here and looks like something must be up with all the buys going through. I'm sure 141, Spooz, Wind River all have a common thread that we're not seeing at the moment but I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them hit it big and take the other companies along for the ride, which of course would include shareholders.
So for now I'm in a hold, wait and watch mode.
BTW, I got a hold of alliecorp by email when I clicked her name for her address.
Seems that way milo, I was excited too but that was because I was new to this company. After doing a little deeper DD though it seems these guys have been doing this for a while now. No wonder they don't have to guts to answer the longs anymore, it looks like the mm's were just waiting so they could dump the shares they bought from Paul and Errol. As you say, it could be a while.
GLTY
Strong arm is right.
The private US conglomerate called the Federal Reserve System aka the Central Banking System's mission is manipulate banks into failing in order that the FED may combine then absorb them thereby increasing it's control over the entire world market. The Fed knew forcing BAC to merge with ML would weaken BAC and Lewis' position which would open the door for a coop not unlike what JPM did to WMI with the help of the FDIC. After the FED cleans up (takes over) as many banks as it can, only the Fed and it's central banking system would be left along with one or two other large banks left like JPM. The US banking system then would be as close as it get to nationalized yet it would be run by a handful of good 'ol boys who don't want anyone else to spoil there fun.
Don't look now but they are preparing the camps.
GLTY
Go WaMu!
No relevance. The article is about UBS sales tactics.
I figured out who is shorting WaMu.
The Fed.
The Fed just issued it's first of New Monthly Reports on Rescue Programs and stated that they made a profit of $4.5 billion on its $1.1 trillion in expanded holdings of U.S. government and other securities just during the first quarter of 2009.
Just being facetious about the Fed shorting WaMu although I suppose it's possible, what I really wanted to do is draw attention to the size of the profits the Federal Reserve managed to skim off banks and paper they own including banks like WaMu in the first quarter of a very bad year for everyone else. Does the Federal Reserve have an interest in owning as much bank as it can beg borrow or steal? Yes.
Look where almost 8 billion dollars in the Fed's coffers came from during 1Q 2009.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/fed-issues-new-monthly-reports-rescue-programs/
"A Fed official said the report is intended to assure people that the Fed is a “careful steward” of its resources and that all borrowings by financial firms in its new programs are “more than adequately covered” by collateral.
Among other items in the report for June, the Fed disclosed that in the first quarter of 2009, it had:
--earned a profit of $4.5 billion on its $1.1 trillion in expanded holdings of U.S. government and other securities
--earned a profit of $1.2 billion on its multiple loan and liquidity programs
--earned a profit of $2.1 billion on its special facility for commercial paper liquidity"
They paid out too some $5.3 billion but that is debt they bought and is aside of the profiteering angle of the FED. I would like to know more about the profiteering side of the Federal Reserve and how they control liquidity of the markets.
I see where Bernanke says he is behind the push for disclosure by the FED, maybe since the Federal Reserve is a privately owned bank, Geitner can publish a list of the FEDs Executive salaries and bonuses like he wants to do with the other private banks of which WaMu would be on the list.
It would be interesting to see who the big shots are with their hands on the American pie.
Yes, if it was a "fat finger" and someone requests they will fix it. But in reality, the MM's will do a fat finger in hopes no one will want it corrected so they can louse up the charts. Plain and simple. The MM's will mess with the charts. They don't want anymore pressure on shares because they need to cover a ton more and they want to hold the price down. By screwing up the charts, they throw the TA's off thus alleviating additional buy pressure.
Yeah, I need to cut and paste those on my screen.
You hear about those and wonder how true it is but any time there is a myth such as those signals, there is always a grain of truth to it.
For once, I'd just like to "rip their lips off"
lol.
GLTY
Free WaMu!
True my friend. I was accused the other day of being "old school" because I suggested that a young teenager take off his cap while entering a public library.
It was a forty something adult that chuckled as she said that, I suppose making light of my comment as to not hurt the teenagers feelings was the intent but I wondered to myself as I heard those words...old school dismissed as foolish, do young people think a work ethic foolish too?
Anyway, sounds like you are raising your children well. I tried with my five. Last of which is now 20 and I am blessed as they are all successful.
And btw, I was just trying to cajole you a little with the NW reference the other day. No insult intended.
And yes, I trust Judge Walrath knows what human value is. Let's just hope it's not too "old school" when deciding WMI's future.
GLTY and Free WaMu!!
Someone still wants this down bad. Chipping away at the the bid with as little as $15.00 whacks.
On target reader. And as you allude to, it is simply a matter of rearranging a few words in our vocabularies.
For instance, by rearranging a couple of following words, the concept changes dramatically. Example: some seem to believe that money represents value, correct? What would it do to the concept of making money if people believed that money was a measure of value instead of value it's self? In other words, if one had stolen money, what value of that person does the money represent? Now if one is paid for his intent and honest effort, what value does the money represent?
Anyhow, not that it will make any difference anyway so I will just get off my box and exclaim: Free WaMu! instead :)
10 on the bid and they break the pps back down to one ten thousandth of a cent increments.
In the spirit of conducting a fair market, will we ever see the day when live MM's are replaced by software?
I would hazard a guess that certainly in the financial markets that as much if not more than 99 out of 100 times when you mix money and humans you get the potential for greed to become involved in the process. When all the market really needs instead of an incentivized party executing trades, is software to match buy/sells and execute trades in an orderly manner. No greed with software hence the stock value is determined more by the underlying issues rather then by the ticket taker manipulating the price.
Not only does the FDIC need to be checked out, so does the Central Banking System AKA the Federal Reserve system as well as Wall Street. Bring those behind these facades into the light and you will see who controls everything. Probing those quasi governmental entities would be more productive than going after the Government itself for answers.
All in my opinion.
FREE WaMu!
I know the feeling.
Kind of reminds me of finger castanets. But I'm ready for a little cow bell right about now. lol
Now at least the MM's are back to three places. lol.
Someone should drop Weil a note to have the trustee request both a EBS audit to find out who's playing with the pps and a cusip number change to flush out the NSS.
My guess is that this is one of the top reasons JPM wants to wash it's hands of TARP money.
TARP strings are not something that goes well with Dimon's ambitions.
I reckon. But which mm is helping them?
or is it the MM himself? Probably, but something doesn't seem exactly hoyle about that.
Exactly.
Listen to them strain trying to hold it back. They are breaking the points down and only letting it up in fourth place increments. Thats like spitting toothpicks into one ten thousandths of an inch.
For what?
Any one have any ideas on where this endless sea of .10's are coming from?
There can't be dilution. Can they be from constant retail selling ?or Short selling? or maybe someone is NSS the short covers? Hasn't the trend been more buys then sells and yet the pps remains stagnant? I don't get it.