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I don't know exactly how long but certainly they are made to order. Particularly with the add on "accruements" specific to LQMT. I don't think 3 months to be an unreasonable time frame.
But where does the money come from?
The cart is in front of the horse.
LQMT Machine Shoppe Ups The Ante
I just don't understand where the money comes from. The monthly cost of the lease of the machine, the additional cost of the electrical hook up, if the Rancho Margarita Fire Department knows whats going on, and finally....the freight alone to get one of these from Austria has got to be $20k.
To do this without having profit generating orders in hand is mind boggling. Certainly no "normal" business is operated this way.
Liquidmetal Technologies has added a news release to its Investor Relations website.
Title: Liquidmetal Technologies Orders Additional Engel Machine for Manufacturing Center of Excellence
Date(s): Feb. 4, 2015 4:00 PM
For a complete listing of our news releases, please click here
RANCHO SANTA MARGARITA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 4, 2015-- Liquidmetal® Technologies, Inc. (OTCQB: LQMT), the world's leading developer of amorphous alloys and composites, is awaiting delivery of an additional injection molding machine from certified partner Engel. The fully automated state-of-the-art machine will enhance the existing Manufacturing Center of Excellence operations reflecting Liquidmetal Technologies' commitment to manufacturing and advancing the capabilities of its technology.
Once the machine goes on-line, it will provide additional capacity in the ongoing parts production at the Rancho Santa Margarita Headquarters. Paul Hauck, Vice President of World-Wide Sales and Support, said: "The company will benefit from having capacity installed ahead of demand by ensuring new customer programs can be adequately managed and customer delivery expectations met."
About Liquidmetal Technologies
Liquidmetal Technologies, Inc. is the leading developer of bulk alloys and composites that utilize the performance advantages offered by amorphous alloy technology. Amorphous alloys are unique materials that are distinguished by their ability to retain a random structure when they solidify, in contrast to the crystalline atomic structure that forms in ordinary metals and alloys. Liquidmetal Technologies is the first company to produce amorphous alloys in commercially viable bulk form, enabling significant improvements in products across a wide array of industries. For more information, go to www.liquidmetal.com.
Source: Liquidmetal Technologies, Inc.
Liquidmetal Technologies, Inc.
Otis Buchanan, 1-949-635-2120
Media Relations
otis.buchanan@liquidmetal.c
Who the hell buys bayonets in 2015?
That was WWI technology.
On top of that, who in there right mind believes that hand-to-hand combat is a part of future warfare? Nobody. A kid with decent Xbox skills is cheaper and far more dangerous than a Special Ops soldier.
I'm calling BS on the bayonet story.
The only people buying bayonets in 2015 are MUSEUMS....and they only want old ones.
OMG!!!
I know the Monday after the Super Bowl is difficult for many.
Please, for the remainder of the day; if you are going to mention knives OR math please re-read this:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=110466475
....and sober up.
No, I'm really just baiting all of you for Conspiracy Theory #2.
Coming Soon!
Bobroo's Prediction for the Miltner/LQMT Knife:
There is no worldwide marketing plan.
I think the 500 knives will be brought to West Coast knife/self-defense/gun shows and displayed on a folding table on Saturdays and Sundays. Monday thru Friday they will stay in the trunk of the car that transports them.
Miltner Adams views this knife as a way for Richard and Julie to make money. Period. And I hope it does!
If Miltner Adams was convinced this was a winner they would have signed an exclusive knife manufacturing agreement with LQMT, leased a green mystery machine from Engle, and opened an account with Materion.
It will be extremely hard for Miltner Adams to shop all the bene's of this knife to really big knife manufacturers as if Miltner Adams was responsible for the materials greatness. The Liquidmetal logo will be the dead giveaway.
Remember, let's keep the attributes of the knife separate form the attributes of LQMT.
I like your viewpoint Keith, thanks for posting!
You have made me think a little differently than I did before.
Thank You For Sharing!
This is exactly the type of reassurance I was talking about! It also confirms that there is a lot that goes on inside the green mystery machine.
I hope the boys in engineering went out for a couple beers afterwork on Tuesday.
LQMT vs The Knife
I think it is important for us here to separate LQMT from Miltner's knife. Meaning: We are interested LQMT and wether it lives up to the hype of it's properties. But comments about the attributes of the knife need to be separated out, meaning: the blades thickness, how the knife is balanced, it's attractiveness, and ease of use are all reflections on Miltner-Adams. Preferably we should leave those comments to the readers of Soldier of Fortune.
I vote we keep the Miltner Adams Co. separate from LQMT as best we can.
It's not my intention to micro-manage LQMT! Although I'd be willing to discuss some very basic straight forward issues with anyone (the very questions I posed in the post). Here, in private, or anyplace else. Does LQMT deserve to be called out? I think all of us here would agree and say Yes, the whip needs to be cracked. A healthy exchange, but not belittling.
I don't know what Product X is. Or, Product X's are. When I reviewed MTRN website last night it took two seconds for me to determine this was the company that could, maybe, potentially be doing something similar to what I was thinking. Materion's business is right in line with LQMT. MTRN is an authorized seller, perhaps we investors might question why MTRN would bother selling LQMT and not more established, straightforward MTRN products as OoO has mentioned?
I meant what I said about fellow poster Gargol. He and the other "glass is full" colleagues are absolutely with out a doubt more enthusiastic and positive about LQMT than the management has shown. My hat is off to them.
Why has adoption been so slow? Ahh foreshadowing, I think that will be a part of Conspiracy Theory #2!
I like what you said about being on a message board on company time! :0)
I've used the words conspiracy theory because this is strictly an opinion; my own. Perhaps crazy even.
I'm not alleging anyone of conspiracy; well...not till at least conspiracy theories 5 or 6.
Being a Pink Sheets firm is such a grey area. It certainly does not help trying to figure anything out.
It's a theory ARmillz. Just thoughts trying to answer questions in one of the beginning paragraphs.
I agree.
MTRN not providing sales or even (from what we can see) viable sales leads is one reason for me selecting MTRN as the Conspiracy #1 culprit. Another was the core of their business is in so many seemingly similar products. It sort of cleared up the foggy LQMT picture.
If there are LQMT people aboard here, GOOD! We should be happy they are interested. I hope they chime in from time to time, it might provide some reassurance to us all.
Conspiracy Theory #1
As you may know I do not believe LQMT exists. You also may be aware that I look at LQMT with a very practical, boots on the ground viewpoint. As a small business owner, I believe any and all behavior in the universe can be explained from what I learned in Economics 201 and 202. This Winter I have taken a closer look at my 4 year long investment in LQMT because I should have been filthy rich by now, right?
I've had deep troubles with how LQMT can continue with quarterly earnings of only about 100k yet expenses in the millions. No apparent debt. Headquartered in a fancy pants industrial park. BoD and executives for a company that really should be run out of a garage by some guy. An additional appox 15 full time employees whom very little is known. Compensation for executives that is very good and includes lucrative bonuses yet no visible results. Why does fellow poster Gargol have more enthusiasm for LQMT than the management??? Why is this company so shady??? Who is the angel investor??? Why does this company just....linger??? After 12 years, why has this company not broken out; certainly LQMT must've been seen as useful to somebody??? WHERE IS THIS COMPANY GOING IN THE FUTURE???
I've asked these and similar questions to this board and have had no response. No responses because nobody knows. I've continued asking because I think all of you should be asking the same questions. These are very good questions and no doubt shared by everyone -- at least to some extent. But I am feeling pretty confident I've come up with an answer to all of our doubts!
I think LQMT is heavily controlled by another much larger firm. I think that company is footing the bill for LQMT ongoings. I think that company has taken something from the origins of LQMT way back in the Caltech days and is sort of pirating that technology in their existing product, Product X. I think they found LQMT to be a superior product and, if allowed to prosper, it will kill off Product X and some very large dollar established and perpetual future contracts. Meaning: if LQMT is allowed into the marketplace it means the end of Product X. But they are happy with Product X and it makes a lot of money. WHY DONT THEY JUST TAKE $98M AND BUY OUT LQMT? THEY ARE TAKING THE MILK, WHY NOT THE WHOLE COW? Because it is cheaper to control LQMT rather than let it prosper. The cost of changing things from Product X to LQMT is too expensive....at this time. WHY NOT JUST BUY LQMT AND SMOTHER IT ENTIRELY? Like American car makers to many small time patent holders in the early 20th century? I think that has to do with CalTech and contracts set up at LQMTs onset. CalTech wanted this technology in the marketplace and made provisions so that it could never be dusted. So, it sits.
Why isn't LQMT used in the iWatch? Used as a fin for a missile? Medical instruments? Some ingenious new invention by Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Electric, NASA, or any other forward looking engineer? Because LQMT pulled out of those negotiations! I think LQMT hooks a fish from time to time but it is LQMT that lets the fish go. Not the fish determining what happens.
Who is this company? I'm thinking it's Materion, MTRN.
After all, if you want the actual ingots of LQMT to put in your green mystery machine, they must be purchased from Materion. And the actual process how MTRN creates those ingots is an even larger enigma. Getting atoms to not behave they way they want to and all. MTRN sells many similar products.
This is just one idea. Merely conjecture on my part. I have others. No proof or even hearsay, just trying to provide an explanation and then use that explanation to steer my investment.
I'm liking the larger firm using LQMT as a puppet idea, it provides some answers. Better answers than what LQMT management has provided, that's for sure.
Thoughts?
Even at these potential sales revenues Gargol. if they were 100% true today; if those numbers were amounts on actual deposit tickets brought to the bank.... Those revenue streams will NOT pay for the salaries OoO mentioned yesterday. It is not enough money to keep the doors open and the lights turned on in Rancho Margarita. It is not enough money to pay the other estimated 13 full time employees their salaries and bene's. It is not enough money for all the other costs of LQMT doing business.
That volume of business does not substantiate the need for "executives" or how ever many square feet the Rancho facility is.
That level of business describes a one man operation with a green mystery machine in his garage.
Which could be very realistically done if any of us here would like to open up their own little side business BTW. If you'd like to be a space age knife blade manufacturer in your spare time.
You are exactly right about imaginary sales projections.
I am in deep thought about the $ of salaries that are paid out by LQMT and where does that $ come from?
I'm trying to think of justified economic reasoning but every thought is dark.
Do I sense a shareholder referendum of "No Confidence" ?
BUHAHAHA!!
There is also another future post "Bobroo's LQMT Conspiracy Theories. What might be a reasonable explanation for all the silence"
I'll also wait on that one. It'll give my imagination more time to run free.
I was going to open a discussion that it has been about 6 months since that sales training news release a while back, so...what happened?
And, over the summer there were announcements of trade partners, well...WTH?
But you and OoO have taken the discussion a different direction today so I'll wait till another day. OK?
I am not saying LQMT is violating any building codes!
I am saying that in the neighborhood LQMT is in there are fairly strict restrictions. Changing your business plan to include manufacturing also requires that your responsibilities to the local municipalities will also change .
I am not going to call him a liar, but I am going to say getting into the manufacturing business is not as easy as some might think. There are many good reasons NOT to do it.
We as investors should all perk our ears up when management wants a dramatic change in the business plan.
Here is the Engle Machine cut sheet:
http://www.engelglobal.com/en/us/liquidmetal-en.html
"we have developed an innovative machine solution for this sensitive process based on our all-electric ENGEL e-motion: Liquidmetal® alloy ingots are first melted in a vacuum by means of induction heating and then injected into a cooled mould. The results: extremely precise metal parts with a perfect, rework-free surface."
I stand corrected 1) the injection process is not with a special gas but rather within a vacuum 2) they claim cycle times of 3 -5 minutes which is far less than my earlier 60 minute estimate.
I stand by my earlier comments about this machine behaving differently as it heats up and would like to emphasize Engle's words "this sensitive process".
I appreciate your response Dg vt!
Couple quick things.
It is a business standard that Miltner paid in full and upfront for the molds. This is actually the first 2 LQMT sales for this product. Even though Miltner owns the molds they will be kept and warehoused by LQMT. Standard industry practice. It is also a separate contact.
I was told by Julie when I ordered mine that the knives will be laser etched with the Liquidmetal logo and a simplified steer skull Miltner logo. Who knew LQMT could be lasered???
The price to Miltner has got to be less than $100 a piece; there is no margin left in it for them. If Miltner was charged $50 per piece; then I roughly calculate about a 25-30% profit margin. Just the roughest calculation. That seems to be more in-line. Could be right/could be wrong.
I think the green mystery machine in Rancho San Margarita is used as machine that works up prototypes for customers. And dabbled with by engineering. There are also environmental issues that come into play with machining. And it doesn't appear to me that Rancho San Margarita is the type of city that allows manufacturing. Warehousing yes, corporate offices yes, making anything other than Subway sandwich? No.
I mentioned potential problems to "sober up" those who might think Willy Wonka is just going to have the Ompaa Lompa's do it. And that the operation of the Liquidfantasy Machine Shoppe is really quite a departure from this new innovative technology from CalTech that potentially can be used for many wonderful things; the story that all us investors have bought into.
I wonder if Watts can reference for us what is actually involved inside the green mystery machine. It just isn't injection molding. I think it is supposed to take raw LQMT ingots, melt them down, inject them while being surrounded by a special gas, and then immediately cool the whole business down. All within some very specific time parameters or the product that comes out is bad.
OK, name me someone who has!
Name someone who has had a reason to. Engle? No way. they were asked to create a injection molding machine that took LQMT and squirted it into a mold and then super cooled it really, really fast.
That's it.
I think you are stumbling in the right direction JollyMonSing!
500 in a day?
Nobody on earth can answer that.....because it has NEVER been attempted.
Think hard about that......We can assume nobody has run the green mystery machine for 8 continuous hours. Nobody has heated that machine up so that as things get hotter they behave differently then when it was originally turned on. That air bubbles occur. That after a period of time residue builds up on the interior of the molds. A whole bunch of theoretical and practical problems. This is why machinists are a very skilled trade. This is why LQMT should NOT become a machine shop.
I have no idea what the production rate is. But as the ultimate skeptic on this board and former user of a Mattel Super Thing Maker I'm taking a wild guess.....months not days.
Bobroo's official skeptical guess is one acceptable knife per hour = 2 1/2 months.
Remember Mattel's Super Thing Maker and PlasticGoop???
Gargol and Liquidfantasy Machine Shoppe:
Just my own thoughts but I'm guessing the following things happen to the knife order:
1) The contract for the initial order is 500 pieces per Julie Adams @ Miltner. That's 500 blades and 500 pieces of something else LQMT, I think the handle.
2) Miltner has also paid for the molds of these two items. These molds won't be made in house but rather by the LQMT partner MoldCraft. Pretty safe to say there are two individual molds.
3) If LQMT was smart they would sub the actual production out to Engle or Materion. That green mystery machine and the precise process that the material needs to go through is an absolute moody bitch. I'm thinking on order of the toy in the late 60's by Mattel that made Creepy Crawlies and Rubber Guys. The Engle green mystery machine needs to be run by a patient machinist who has a deep understanding of the process and the machine, not a couple guys from engineering.
4) There is going to be delays. I'm hoping for my knife by the end of the summer. If not production it will be the laser etching company. If not the laser etching company it will be the assembly of the knives. If not the assembly it will be the packaging and provenance bullpoop materials. If not packaging and fake certificates it will be in getting the orders ready for shipping. If not shipping prep there will be the fact Miltner will have to pony up funds to pay UPS for shipping in short order. On top of it all LQMT and Miltner are California companies. EVERYTHING takes longer to/from and inside California.
5) Also be aware there may be a substitution. We may not receive 100% LQMT. It maybe change ordered to spray on LQMT coating. The reason for this is inability of the sharpening of the blade. Knives are sharp because of the carbon content of the metal. LQMT does not have a large carbon component.
Anyone who is thinking a guy can walk up to the green mystery machine pour in some LQMT in one side and out the other is a conveyer belt full of knives is sadly mistaken. It's not as easy as Dr. Suess told you to was.
I'm not trying to be a downer here. But I believe not only is the the glass half empty; but there is no glass at all.
With 18-20 employees you'd think there would be a technical research submission in a trade journal, an appearance at a trade show, or even a car accident with the company truck. But we have nothing. Maybe those 5 guys who cut the grass once a week count as employees for shareholder purposes???
Until someone can show me evidence to the contrary, I firmly believe there is no Liquidmetal Technologies.
The Liquidfantasy Machine Shoppe and the Bernie Madoff Manufacturing Center of Excellence are a complete bunch of lies.
Can I please be called disgruntled investor too? Or better yet, Video Hitler? Because if I had feelings...they'd be hurt.
I don't even believe there is actually Liquidmetal. I now think it is all a ruse.
I'll find out if (and when) I receive my knife.
I'm #52 BTW.
P.S. While you are considering some witty name calling for me, please also tell me what the supposed 18 -20 full time employees do for 40 hours a week. Because there is not a visible trace of their efforts best any of us can tell.
I really like what you said in this post Gargol. Thanks for sharing!
I will put in a query to http://www.atomicaquatics.com and ask their engineers if they are aware of, or have considered ; LQMT. Also asking their thoughts if they will reveal them.
There are a few select companies in this world that I absolutely without question trust. Companies that make the best of the best. Companies that deeply care about their products and their customers. Atomic Aquatics is one of those companies.
Co-incidentally; just thinking about it, other companies that I hold in this regard and are publicly traded; I hold shares of. An investment strategy I've been using that I was completely unconscious of.
Is the V Matter knife solid LQMT or the old fashioned spray-on coating of LQMT???
Welcome To The LQMT Machine Shoppe
You are correct Stef, that is....A knife. A prototype? Not likely.
Are they talking about a similar Miltner product? Yes.
Are they talking about whether LQMT can/can't be used for the hinge pins and locking mechanism? Yes.
Are they talking if you can actually sharpen and hold an edge with LQMT? Yes.
Are they talking if LQMT can be used for the handle? Yes.
Are they talking if LQMT can be used as jewelry, flashlights, brass knuckles, throwing stars, nunchucks, or stupid finger decorations in the shape of a snake that can disembowel the enemy?They had damn well better be....
Now that LQMT has turned into a machine shop, LQMT has got a lot to talk about....and a lot to learn.
$260 is a cheap price for research!
Like Watts, I am pre ordering a knife.
I will be able to touch, feel, and use LQMT. I will drop it, heat it, and submerge it under water for a period of time. I will bend it, cut it, and drill it.
Based on those personal findings I will then make the ultimate determination...IS LQMT A VALUABLE PRODUCT AND CAN I FORESEE OTHER VALUABLE USES FOR LQMT.
For $260, I will find if LQMT is a worthy investment or is it a house of cards. For $260 I will be able to forecast where this company is going.
Watts is absolutely correct, if you post or even troll this board; you should buy this ingot of LQMT formed in the shape of a knife. All of the questions in the back of your mind about LQMT can be answered for a lousy $260.
Some Things My Wife Has Said About LQMT:
(These have honest to God been said in our house. LQMT has been a running theme, a fun-joking around running theme for a few years )
--As close as you follow this stock, rather than buy-n-hold you would have made lots more money if you would buy low and sell high. Umm....True.
--OK, show me some LQMT. Umm...There's those golf clubs.
--Explain to me how a company continually has revenues of about 100K a quarter and costs of 2M and continues to stay in business.[/i] Ummm....an angel investor???
--How many shares are outstanding? What's todays price? <pulls out calculator> I think they survive on guys like you, Bob. How many guys are there like you? I turned my head and pretended to be interested in a baseballl game.
--The engineers at Apple are NOT stupid. Ummm...the same guys that gave us the Newton?
--(After viewing the Hitler video) That's SO true!
--(After seeing the recent Twitter photo) Are they desperate enough to sell knives to terrorists?
(While watching the Milner Youtube video for Drop Set Pins) Let me get this right, this company was owned by a guy who sold furniture but really wanted to be a race car driver. And current management is boasting about have this guy as a customer? Yeah...he's an engineer AND a bodybuilder. No he's not, he wants to kill people. I hope Liquidmetal doesn't screw up any of his orders that's all I have to say.
Above all else, Thank-you Oracle for making the original post. Had you not brought it to light it might have been some time before we realized it available.
Thank-you for your response. I am interested in your viewpoint as much as everyone else. I am particularly interested in those completely opposite my own that offer reasoning. Thanks again, I'm interested in hearing your opinion and looking forward to more..
I'm not bashing LQMT, I'm skeptical. I think an honest skepticism.
I'm looking for answers to the LQMT "problem" the way I know how. I don't know charts, points of resistance, or even how to apply standard economic models to a penny stock.
What I am looking for is a company that has an idea, strategy, or product that is tangible and potentially useful. I gotta tell you...I'm not seeing it. I see a concept but I do not today see a tangible product.
I've been long LQMT for 3 plus years. This winter is really the first time I've had to look hard at LQMT. I want to reduce my position (at a profit).
I must admit, LQMT is the #1 most fun, most interesting, and most compelling investment I have ever made. I think I'll always have $500 in, just to enjoy the ride.
In full disclosure I have been in Mr. Milners seat in this photo a half a dozen times in my lifetime.
1) Top executives are just as eager to get a free lunch from the boss just as much as the guy who sweeps the floor of the factory. Even if it's just hot dogs.
2) Million dollar contracts do happen on handshakes at hot dog stands. The venue of talks over food can happen anywhere and value of contract does not necessarily commensurate with price of restaurant.
But the body language displayed is just overwhelmingly contrary to the big breakthrough we are hoping for.
A very telling photo...
This impromptu photo, taken by an (assuming) LQMT non pictured employee; tells me a lot.
1) That even though they may have "breaked for lunch" during negotiations or "we are glad to have Mr. Milner a part of our family" type of informal talk over food. It truly shows the desperation of LQMT to have ALL the executives in attendance. If LQMT was busier, certainly a couple of them would have had other business to attend to.
2) LQMT might feel really good about "reeling one in" but it is a completely unflattering photo. Particularly for a company that has put on recent dog and pony shows. Particularly for a company supposedly courting the likes of some real heavy hitting Fortune 500 Co's. LQMT has let their guard down here.
3) Mr. Milner is there alone. He has negotiated, bought, and signed for whatever it is --alone. There is no Milner design team, Milner legal advice, or fellow Milner executive.
4) Was this taken on casual Friday?
Sorry folks, this photo illustrates this is not a million dollar contract. It's not a million piece contract. This contract is the smallest of the small. Which is all OK, there is nothing wrong with that. It shouldn't warrant a press release. Right now today; this contract does NOT substantially add to the bottom line.
I truly feel there is not much else going on at LQMT. If there was this photo would not have been published.
I sorry if I've burst anyones bubble.....