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Rachelelise, Strong analysis of Wave's current position in the TC market. I completely agree. Care to elaborate on this?
"Interesting that these two events don't include wave's strongest supporter - Intel."
I would like to hear your respected opinion as to why?
Jeff
Howard, Wave does have 90+ employees.
Congrats Mr.Weby on your new little Red Sox fan! Jeff
Vaporware? Follow the money Howard. Pretty expensive vapor don't you think?
Gates: 'Everything' impacted by security concerns
Last modified: February 24, 2004, 12:10 PM PST
By Robert Lemos and Ina Fried
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
Gates said that the company is making progress. Microsoft is spending more than $6 billion on research and development this year, with the largest portion going to security, he said.
Posted by Rooster1
Barge, I agree Phantom will have a quick jump into the market showcasing this technology early. How long, and how much will be the big question. In the meantime it will be fun to follow. Thanks for your find!
Barge, As you stated "Which of the above consoles are capable of Interoperable Security protocols? None. Phantom is Interoperable. Do you think that is a significant differentiator? I do." I agree there might be a small window of opportunity for Phantom but considering Sony and Microsoft are both well aware of TPM technology and interoperability I find it hard to believe they will allow a little company to grab ANY significant market share.
Barge, I'm with you on this one to the extent that this has Wave written all over it. But I have to side with Wildmans comment reguarding the big three. My kids have PS2, Xbox, and Nintendo. You can already connect via broadband the PS2 and Xbox to play interactively. I believe it's only a short amount of time before Sony and Microsoft offer the on-demand feature. I believe it will be a tremendous uphill battle to cut into an already tight market between the big three. JMO
Snack, I haven't received any packets either and I purchased thousands of shares during the specified time frame. Yet my best friend purchased over 60k shares three months ago and he has received numerous packets??? Guess the firms know i'm a die hard Wavoid somehow? Any thoughts?
Rachelelise: So refreshing to read a post from somebody who simply gets it! How true this is : "They have the tools to make the applications work with TPMs and LaGrande and the tools to see they work in a trusted networked environment. So Wave can now bring much more to the table and wave is a lot more accessible to these developers than trying to work directly with the gorillas." A public thank you! Jeff
Doma: I concur completely with your suspicion. Burp has motives and agendas for this board yet to be fully uncovered. I'm not buying into his sincerity at all. JMO
Well it wasn't Bluefang either because I believe he claimed he was part owner of Wave holding 5000 shares total:)
VH2: I agree. It doesn't smell like any of the big boys but again one always has to look at who profits most from negativity when there's something to gain and something to lose. Just a conspiracy theory at this point:) Jeff
Ramsey: It's funny you bring that up. I just got off the phone with a friend and had the same dialog with him. I do think there is some relevance to those two points. Why invest in a suit against a company that can file BK or will surely go under? Also, who has the most to gain if Wave goes under? IBM, HP, Microsoft, Intel??? A conspiracy theory nonetheless but Wave does have a significant stronghold in the TCG. Dragging TC out, low share price, legal fees, lack of capital, diffuculty to refinance may be a formula for creating pressure for Wave to sell in the near future? I dont believe that is the case but as a realist I would sin against my conscience not to consider it:)
Isn't it interesting that in the eleventh hour of Wave having to "put up or shut up" relative to posting revenues that the SEC gets "picky" with a Wave announcement? Consider all of the announcements over the years and the volatile price fluctuations that followed those announcements with no formal SEC investigations? No class action suits when Wave had deeper pockets? Hell, this stock traded over $45 at one point as many Dot Com stocks did at that time with no true revenues? Isn't it interesting that a bogus class action suit has been filed at THIS JUNCTURE? Haven't many wondered why Wave has remained so quiet over the last several months when so much is transpiring in TC? Do we have a better understanding as to why now? I suppose my point is simple. Opposition in all things! I expect the level of negative we are seeing today will be matched with > or = of the positive. JMO
I'm buying again! I picked up at $1.39 last month and hopefully get a shot around the same this week. Jeff
Snack? Awk? Go-kite?
Greg: It's poeple like you who have no financial interest in this company yet spend countless hours posting on this board which creates suspicion of an agenda. Many have come and gone with agendas over the years and maybe it's that we've just gotten good at sniffing them out? I would hope one requirement to post on a Wave private board is that you actually own a share of this stock?
BowWave: Your exactly right to expect people should read the boards first before expecting to be given all the answers. Awk, Unclevername, 2b and others have provided a good foundation for study and research on the board header alone to get one up to speed. I have refered several of my friends who read this board and have a pretty solid understanding of what this company is about and they may never post? I for one smell an agenda.... jeff
Very well stated Weby! Nice reality check... Jeff
Tampa, I agree with your logic concerning Visonaries and the importance of showing revenue and profit in accordance with their vision. What I dont understand is your willingness to celebrate with CPA because of my idea of censorship? What? CPA has a right to continually bash the managment of this company and take personal shots at others on this thread and I dont have the right to defend the management that I believe in? Sounds like your doing the censoring and taking sides my friend? I personally think you have been extremely subjective on both sides of the coin in the past and surely I dont think CPA needs any help in defending himself at this juncture. So I guess Steven just needs to show us the money then eh?
CPA, The only reason I took my filter off is because you drew some attention from Snack and others who usually dont respond any longer to your antics. Now I know why they did! I'll await a response in fairness then it's back on ignore for you.
CPA, Steven Sprague is the creator and visionary of trusted computing as we know it today. The TCG would simply not exist at this level in 2004 if not for Stevens relentless, persistent, charismatic, and passionate approach towards realizing Wave ubiquity in the trusted computing space. You say its the tech alone that has kept Wave afloat and has brought this company to the edge of that ubiquity. I say the tech would have been acquired long ago without Stevens stubborness and persistence to own this trusted computing space as we will surely come to know very soon. All the travel and deals made over drinks and dinner with the RIGHT poeple who believe in Steven and his vision have paid off my friend. Go ahead and embarrass yourself amongst the few remaining peers that you do have in this community and cast your measly vote on the next proxy. I personally hope you choose to quietly celebrate when this company financially succeeds as I will be disgusted if you choose to celebrate with the Wave community in Vegas. Good luck with casting your vote.
No but a "packmule" can pack all the gold of ones desire out of a gold mine whereas a thoroubred would surely falter. Wave has represented the packmule of TC because they have had to drag the thoroughbreds behind them to form the TC market. Just short of providing the technology and vision necessary to mine the gold! Ispy, your running out of time before the "crow meter" gains momenum! Another announcement or a quarter with a significant revenue spike will be all it will take to silence the critics.
Greg, Wave offers the only programmable and interoperable solution that is patented. Dont you think this solution will be integrated into Lagrand and NGSCB?? Respectfully, I simply cant follow your logic that Intel and Microsoft are simply USING Wave to merely test the market only to conveniently discard them at the eleventh hour? Haven't you followed the progression of this company? I'm shocked at your short sightedness! Greg, the time is nearly at hand (another Wave deployment announcement and an upward explosion in Wave revenue) when all the reasons for why Wave will fail will have fully run their course. It will only be a matter of how much crow the doubters will be willing to eat for them to continue to participate on this board. I hope you have and investement in Wave and if you dont, time is running short my friend....
All: I was watching the food network last night and watched a special called "Kitchens of the Future". IBM (not supprisingly)constructed a kitchen complete with all INTEROPERABLE and PROGRAMMABLE appliances that you can dial into from your cell phone (complete with voice command)and instruct to perform numerous services. For anybody who wants to see programmable multi-platform interoperabilty and how it will change our lives then please watch this program. The best part is the major appliance makers are well aware of this market and have already developed the prototypes for production. The next program airs on the 24th at 4pm ET or the 25th at 5pm ET.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_sp/episode/0,1976,FOOD_9994_30467,00.html
awesome thus far awk!
Exciting post Wildman! alot to look forward to this new year! Hope everybody had a safe New Years Eve... Jeff
Awk, Thank you for replying. I obviously agree that "Attestation is to Trusted Computing what water is to life. Without water there is no life." I have some philosophical differences relating to how attestation will be managed and whether there will be a revenue model associated with attestation when NGSCB rolls out. Any information you can provide would be greatly helpful. You have been extremely helpful with all your contributions in the past relative to TC / Wave etc. Let me bounce this off you.... How do you think programmability will be managed on the commercial and consumer level? Who will manage this? Thanks in advance for your your help. Jeff
Ramsey, So do you believe as Go-kite does that Wave will receive a % of each platform attested to? If that is the case then wouldn't that represent a revenue model that will make Wave as big as the other Gorrillas? Do you think the other members of the TCG will give away that size of a revenue model?
Just picking your brain.... Jeff
Doma, My bad. Barge?
Doma, I agree with much of the last paragraph of your post where you state: "Unlike the Attestation faction, I don't think WAVE needs to achieve an important stake in Attestation to be successful. After all, WAVE has infinitely more LEVERAGE power simply through the licensing of the Embassy TAN. Keep in mind, that ALL the Trust Domain members of TCG will need to license an Embassy TAN, or be LOCKED out of the TCG Network! Isn't that LEVERAGE!!!!? Don't you think WAVE can come up with a business model involving the Embassy TANs without involving Attestation? Isn't WAVE fundamentally involved as a GateKeeper to the TCG Network? But being a Gatekeeper does not entitle WAVE to force other Trust Domains to use Embassy's Utility Software package ( which I believe is the hidden assumption underlying many in the Attestation faction"
Let me ask you some questions....
1. Awk refers to the Embassy TAN as a TCG TAN. Would you agree with his reference and why?
2. Wouldn't one of Waves business models relate to Applet development toolkit sales, certification, licensing etc etc? Could you elaborate on this from a tech standpoint.
3. What are your thought on programmability? Who will manage this space? Wouldn't this be another terrific business model?
4. You state: "But being a Gatekeeper does not entitle WAVE to force other Trust Domains to use Embassy's Utility Software package ( which I believe is the hidden assumption underlying many in the Attestation faction"
Why wouldn't it force other trust domains to use utility software? Who will manage the VAULT, backup and restore etc etc? Example: When a business burns to the ground and they lose their servers and backup. Who will they call to restore their vital business information? Isn't this one of Waves major business models as well and wont these utility services only be offered by Wave?
I appreciate your post and look forward to your response. Jeff
Svenm, There are two types of revenue generation both short term and long term. If Waves role in the TCG is to merely provide utility services then this would represent a short term revenue opportunity for Wave as competition would surely surpass Wave in a short time frame. I think the 10 billion revenue projection for utility services might be accurate if Wave was the sole provider of such services over a SUBSTANTIAL time period maybe 5 - ? years or more. I dont believe Wave would last that long as competition from LARGER organizations would surely come up with utility services that will provide bigger bells and whistles at a lower cost. I believe the EMBASSY Firmware provides Wave with the longevity it requires in a TC market that will be realized phase by phase over time. I believe the EMBASSY Firmware will be an intregal part of Lagrande and NGSCB. For this reason, Wave will realize a long term revenue model generated from utility services. You ask: "Specifically, I would like to know how you expect EMBASSY firmware to generate revenues in other forms than that that GKS references in that very succinct and clear post."
I believe this is one example of a terrific revenue opportunity for Wave:
Reference: www.wave.com
The EMBASSY system provides unique abilities for security, authentication, and trust. Developing applications for EMBASSY can greatly expand your product's offering, increasing it's marketability, and attention in the marketplace.
By becoming a developer for EMBASSY you will be part of an elite group of developers creating Trust@TheEdge applications.
Applications created for the EMBASSY system will be available to the wide range of devices deployed by Wave's partners such as AMD, BIZ, Compaq, Hitachi, or Wave itself. Wave and our partners are creating a market for your application to be launched on millions of PC annually.
Be part of the Trust@TheEdge revolution - review the information on the left and then Enroll to become a developer - Today.
To become a developer an Applet Development Kit (ADK) is needed. To receive an ADK you must sign up for our developer program. Once your application is received, we will verify the information and ask you to complete a registration form, an executed developer agreement and submit an application fee. Once all information is complete you will receive the ADK and be able to develop for the EMBASSY system.
EMBASSY Enabled Program
Your application or hardware can be certified to two levels EMBASSY Ready and EMBASSY Enabled. By committing to our logo certification program, your product will receive the white glove treatment. Testing, priority support, architectural reviews, and special marketing programs, are all available to the companies who undergo the logo certification process.
I'm not trying to speak for barge in any way. I just wanted to share a different perspective. Jeff
hhh, never in control of the "TC timeline" that has changed repeatedly by the tech Gorrillas. Is SKS at fault when the timeline for Longhorn is originally set for 2004-2005 and changed to 2005-2006? Is he at fault when his forecasts are based on deployment projections and timelines from let's say an Intel and for one reason or another those timelines and deployment schedules change? How many pre 911 forecasts do you think were realized after 911?
How easy it is to put any company or individuals spending under the microscope and excersize 20/20 hindsight vision? I wasn't there and didn't have the relevant information at those moments to make those decisions. I can look back as you and cry about those perceived mistakes made by SKS in relation to company spending. But hey, at the end of the day SKS has a terrific relationship with Microsoft and the other big players. Maybe it did take 80 million in selling expenses to hone those relationships. I do know 80 million in the Intel, MSFT, HP world is lunch money to them.
I believe we will find out this year whether the 80 million spent on selling and g&a expenses was worth it? We will see if SKS and others have been overpaid? I'll even go as far to admit if this company doesn't minimally hit $500 million in revenues over the next 4-7 years that I will agree that these guys were overpaid. But if this company performs over the next several years as many on this board believe, then who will care? If I didn't feel comfortable with the leadership of this company I personally wouldn't be invested. The shame would be on me if I was.
Boy, I turn the filter off for kicks on a laid back Sunday afternoon after football and what a firework show this is? Blue, count me in on your and Snackmans wager. Let us all remember Blues heartfelt position on Wave and it's management. Something tells me Blue is the kind of guy who will want to celebrate with all the longs in Vegas after pulling a 180 on his viewpoints. I suppose his movement from one side of the fence to the other over the years has given me that perpective?
In his post #2081
Snackman: I agree I owe mgt one big apology, and as I said yesterday, it will happen. Let's see how the revenues are going to shake out, so the apology can be complete. I was wrong, dead wrong and I am so happy to be saying that.
I will write a letter of apology and make it public. I laid out my criticism in public; I will eat crow in public. It is only fair.
But for now, let's both of us enjoy the success. Yes, it obviously did not come overnight, nor easily. The point is, what both of us have wanted for a long time has arrived.
I doubted, lost faith and said some shameful things. You held true, kept the faith and were gracious. In the end, you were right and I could not have been more wrong.
The champagne will be on me, as will the dinner of your choice, when we finally meet in person. Congratulations! What a wonderful time to be a Wavoid after all those dreary days wandering in the desert, wondering if we would ever see the promised land.
Bluefang
Sorry Blue, I couldn't resist. You make it so easy LOL
I'll wait for a response in all fairness before I turn that filter back on.
zenmeister, You are on one terrific roll today. You state: "ever since Microsoft declared that hardware would be needed to secure the PC, most of Wave's prior 'relationships' have started showed renewed life." AND "How can you not see that Wave was never in control of the timeline?". This is so damn true!!! All the Wave management bashers tend to forget these two points! What the hell else could SKS have done to move TC forward any faster? What additional business relationships would we have had him cultivate any better than he has? Microsoft, Intel, HP (to name a few) all seem to feel good about him and Wave to this day? Thanks for the refreshing posts...
zenmaster: Cheers to 2004!
That's what the board is for.. I greatly respect your opinions whether I agree or not. Jeff
Let me re-post my point from post #24299:
Let's all be honest here. The TCG is simply another approach for the gorrillas to forge the TC market. The TCPA drew negative attention which jeopardized their original marketing initiatives.
For those of us who dont remember the overall feeling about TCPA back in the day, here is a quick reminder from a U.S. perspective much less an international:
www.againsttcpa.com
www.notcpa.org
www.stop1984.info/index.php?text=tcpa.txt
antitcpa.alsherok.net
www.anti-palladium-action.com
www.petitiononline.com/endtcpa1/petition.html
www.isotton.com/stop-tcpa.html
www.lb.shuttle.de/apastron/noTCPA.htm
themes.freshmeat.net/projects/againsttcpa
http://forum.moddb.com/1/5319/
http://www.watcpa.mine.nu/
http://deathto_tcpa.tripod.com/
Just to name a very few websites. Let's not forget during this same time frame that MSFT was in litigation with the Government.
How much anti-TCG propaganda have we seen thus far? I can't seem to find much? All of the same founding members of the TCPA are the same founding members of the TCG? seems the anti TCPA groups dont know where to go next with their movement?
Rachelelise was correct in her assertion that: "It changed the way that votes are taken which has the result of diminsihing the power of any one or two companies -- often tied to Microsoft but it could be anyone."
Just as important, it diminished the LIABILITY of any one or two companies.
I disagree with rachelelise assertion that:
"I've inferred that the creation of the incorporation of TCG signaled that trusted computing was going to happen and that the broadened membership was a great opportunity for Wave to talk with major, faster moving players, who could derive great value from what Wave could offer."
The signal that trusted computing was going to happen was when the TCPA was originally formed and Wave was a significant contributor to this movement then. Wave was already talking to a broad membership base the TCPA had to offer back then.
TCPA Membership
123ID, Inc.
360 Degree Web
3Com Corp.
Access360
Acer, Inc.
ACEtek Research
ActivCard Inc.
Adhaero Technologies
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Aesec Corporation
Aladdin Knowledge Systems
Algorithmic Research Ltd.
ALi Corporation
American Express Company
American Megatrends Inc.
Argus Security Corporation
Atmel Corporation
ATMEL Rousset
AuthenTec, Inc.
Authentium, Inc.
Autotrol Uruguaya S.A.
Baltimore Technologies Ltd
BERGDATA AG
BindView Development
Blueice Research
Broadcom Corporation
BURNEY
Carraig Ltd
Caveo Technology LLC
Cavium Networks
CE-Infosys Pte Ltd
Cerberus Information Security Limited
Certicom Corp.
Check Point Software Technologies Ltd
CHECKFLOW
Chrysalis-ITS
Cimarron Systems Incorporated
CipherKey Exchange Corporation
Cloakware Corporation
Communication Intelligence Corporation
Comodo Research Lab LTD
Compagnie Européenne de Développement SA
Compal Electronics, Inc.
Compaq Computer Corporation *
Computer Associates International, Inc.
Computer Elektronik Infosys GmbH
Crypto AG.
Cygate ESM Oy
CYLINK Corporation
Dell Computer Corporation
DICA Technologies Inc.
DigiGAN, Inc
Digital Innotech Co.
Digital Persona Inc.
Discretix Technologies Ltd.
e-PCguard.com, Inc.
eCryp, Inc.
Eltan Comm B.V.
Enova Technology Corporation
Ensure Technologies
Entrust Technologies Ltd.
ERACOM Pty Ltd
Ethentica
Excalibur Solutions, Inc
FARGOS Development, LLC
FINGLOQ AB
First Access, Inc.
Fortress Technologies Inc
Founder Technology Computer System CO.,LTD
Fujitsu Limited
Fujitsu-Siemens-Computers
Gateway, Inc.
Gemplus Corporation
GLOBEtrotter Software
Hewlett-Packard Company *
Hitachi, Ltd. PC Div.
Humans and Machines
HyperSecur Corporation
I/O Software, Inc.
ICSA.net
ID Tech
IdentAlink Limited
Infineon Technologies Corporation
Infineon Technologies Asia Pacific Pte Ltd
InfoCore, Inc.
Insyde Software Corp.
Integrity Sciences, Inc.
Intel Corporation *
Interlok Technologies L.L.C.
International Business Machines
Corporation *
International Service Consultants Ltd.
Internet Dynamics, Inc.
Internet Security Systems
InterTrust Technologies
Iomega Corporation
IPTV Ltd
Kasten Chase Applied Research
Keycorp Ltd.
Keyware Technologies, Inc.
Lanworks Technologies Co.
Legend (SHENZHEN) R&D Center, Legend Group Ltd
Lexign
Liquid Audio, Inc.
Litronic Inc.
LOGISIL Consulting
M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers
M3S Enterprises
Macrovision Corporation
Massive Media Group
Media DNA Incorporated
Medialogic Co., Ltd
Miaxis Biometrics Co.
Micron Electronics, Inc
Microsoft Corporation *
Mitac International Corporation
Mobile-Mind, Inc.
Motorola
National Semiconductor
nCipher Inc.
NDS Limited
NEC Corporation
Net Nanny Software International
NetActive Inc.
NetAtmosphere Inc.
NetOctave, Inc.
NetSecure Software Canada
Network Associates, Inc.
New Trend Technology Inc.
Novell, Inc.
nVidia
O2Micro
OSA Technologies
PC Guardian
Philips Semiconductors
Phoenix Technologies, Ltd.
Pijnenburg Custom Chips B.V.
Precision Digital Hardware
Pricewaterhouse Coopers
Prism Resources, Inc.
Pro-Team Computer Corp.
Protect Data Security Inc.
Rainbow Technologies, Inc.
Raytheon Company
Raz-Net Inc.
Redstrike B.V.
RSA Security, Inc.
SafeNet, Incorporated
SAFLINK Corporation
SAGEM MORPHO, Inc.
SAGRELTO Enterprises, Inc.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO. LTD
Schlumberger, Smart Cards
Science Applications International Co.
Scienton Technologies Inc.
SCM Microsystems
Sectra Communications AB
Securant Technologies
Secure Computing Corporation
Secure Systems Solutions
Siemens AG
Silicon Integrated Systems Corp.
Softex, Inc.
Sony Electronics, Inc.
Sospita ASA
SPYRUS, Inc.
SSH Communications Security, Inc.
Standard Microsystems Corporation
STMicroelectronics
Symantec Corporation
Symbol Technologies, Inc
TCL Computer Technology Co., LTD.
Texar Software Corp.
Thales e-Security, Inc.
TimeCertain, LLC
Titan Systems Corporation
Toshiba Corporation
Trend Micro, Inc.
Tripwire, Inc.
Trispen Technologies
TruSec Solutions
Trustpoint Corporation
Tsinghua Tongfang Co., LTD.
TVN Entertainment Corporation
Ubizen
Utimaco Safeware AG
ValiCert Inc.
VeraSafe, Inc.
Verasity Technologies
Veridicom, Inc.
Verisign, Inc.
VIA Technologies, Inc.
Vibren Technologies, An NEC Company
Viewpoint Engineering
Village Inc.
Voltaire Advanced Data Security Ltd
Wave Systems Corp.
Wincor Nixdorf
WinMagic, Inc.
WinVista Corporation
rachelelise also stated:
"In conclusion, TCG was not just a morphing of TCPA but an important and necessary step forward. And not inevitable either so this was a "good break" for us. AIMO"
I believe that the TCG was a "step around" and then a "step forward" as many of the original TCPA members could avoid the negative publicity and liability associated with the original structure of the TCPA.
TC was "inevitable" and was only a good break for Wave so the movement could continue. I believe the negative publicity and legal implications that the TCPA membership was facing is what has drawn this movement out and is the reason for Wave having to secure financing in the eleventh hour AIMO.
I suppose my motivation behind this long boring post is out of frustration. I frequently read posts alluding to TC kind of just "evolving" into something that the founding companies of TC (Wave included) are trying to figure out as they go along? These companies set their strategic business plans years in advance and yes sometimes they have to roll with the punches and change gears when adversity raises it's ugly head.
I also get frustrated when I read posts alluding to Wave being deduced to a Utility Services Company. I believe this is so near sighted. I wont even get into the extensive facts supporting the respect Wave has received from the big Gorrillas thru the TC movement when the only role Wave may play in the end game is utility services? We'll save that discussion for another day.
It's amazing to think that a company that doesn't generate true revenue such as Wave would have such a significant leadership postion in the TCG and in it's movement forward? I guess those utility services Wave has to offer will be so critical to MSFT, Intel etc. etc. that they would feel the need to PARTNER with this little company and solicit their help to move TC forward? Makes me wonder sometimes?
Bravo tampa! Thanks for the perspective. Your exactly right... Jeff