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allman - let me guess ---- most of them?
Thanks eamonshute for the symbol
Never mind - gor impatient again and looked it up. Think it will be a better buy at $6 though.
T123
Barge - must I apologize for some prior transgression that I don't recall committing. Need I repent for something before you share the symbol, or must I go look it up myself
awk - perhaps you're right. Not blaming anyone really. Just turning up the heat a bit that's all.
Just to put shaky hands at ease here....
While I challenge and sometimes state the obvious (but never do I whine Snackman), I sit here and post feeling pretty certain that if I were to stay in this stock 1/2 as long as I already have been, I'll probably see my share price in the 20s or higher on Wave. The only thing I won't know is how many times the stock may have already split in the meantime.
So, now that we've gotten a peek into Tampa's true beliefs, (which I'm sure many of you who actually know me would know that I'm speaking what I believe here) you may wonder why I don't just sit back and wait it out? Well, why don't all of you?
Your DD is just another way of waiting. My challenges are healthy. And if, as some say, Steven reads thiese, I want hime to remember that we're concerned investors, who deserve more information than we're getting, and who deserve a breakthrough already. Patience is great if you've got some. But so were Tai Sticks back in the 70s. I don't have either anymore, and haven't for quite some time. I think that's part of the reason that I have the money to invest that I have.
If I were as patient as some of you think I should be, I'd have to be medicated. I can remember shooting purple bullets from my index finger at a "dark side of the moon" poster in my dorm room one day listening to Black Sabbath, and laughing my face off. The next thing I remember was being across the street (Broad Street in Philly) playing a pinball machine while my brain tuned into "I shot the Sheriff" on the radio in the Pizza joint where the pinball machine was.
That's the last time I can remember exercising the patience that you all think I should have.
Is Infinium Labs a Publicly Held company?
allman - Haven't heard from you in a while. Saw you back posting here recently, and welcome and respect your opinions.
After 2-years having a finished product...
After 14-years of development
After 3-years of negligable sales efforts on EI and EII, and
After 2+ years below the $5 level (with brief exceptions), I don't think that taking time to get things going is the issue anymore. Call me old-fasioned.
Who else should I hold accountable then?
T123
KTM will be a next generation Tivoli solution IMO.
Just a hunch.
I remember many a things. I also remember:
- Well that's right, we can no longer afford to be at 5-digit revenues.
- Sales are a primary focus of this company now.
- We continue to make excellent progress, and our future looks brighter today than it ever has.
These are just as valid of statements made by Wave as any others.
T123
eamonshute - Well, I'm bit surprised that you are comfortable with that answer. I hope others aren't. There really has been enough time IMO. Even though Wave wasn't in the initial TPMs released by IBM, the TPM itself is over a year old in the field. What Wave has is either necessary, or not for these existing users. While I can see your point with regards to TPM market penetration, I don't agree on activation knowledge, or your opinion of wait time on activation percentages.
IBM's business continues throughout. Wave's spending continues throughout. So should a better understanding of the need contine to progress throughout. There should no longer be 2-3 quarters between any stretch of knowledge from here, simply because there's too many avenues where progress could be, and needs to be reported.
T123
jakes dad - the fact that we''re still in the dark 72 hours from the call speaks volumes. My bet --- nothing of substance again. It's not a pessimistic view. Just a been there, done that view
eamonshute - unfortunately, these comments only refer to the rollout and adoption of TPMs, and not Wave's activiation rates, or upgrade orders for premium services. So to me, this is double-speak, and means very little to me without actual activation rates also being understood and articulated. Without this, we could be looking at an even longer extension of knowledge hidden behind these statements.
Wouldn't you agree?
rachelelise - I think that's what I wrote.
Once the suits go to the next level, some will drop out for lack of cause or clients. Once it shakes out to that level, then you'll see what I mean.
Hey - If nothing else, it's as good an excuse as any for Wave to use for having little or no revenue-related news (again) for the next 6+ months. Just kidding. I'm waiting until the 3rd and 4th quarter for this news just like everyone else.
However, I persoanlly see no reason why there isn't enough evidence for guidance NOW!
samk - You're missing the point. I could go broke defending myself for a crime that I never commited. It's not the guilt or innocence that's the real issue. It's the threat of litigation, and the overwhelming cost of it. These law firms have an arsenal of resources at their disposal to throw at every case. That's the real threat. Whether you win or lose, you're looking at time, millions of dollars, and owning less then, then you might just settling now.
That's exactly why these law firms do this. It's a major revenue stream for them. If it wasn't lucrative, they wouldn't do it.
Again, and again - just my opinion
t123
We're all entitled to our opinions. But I believe it costs less now then it will later. I don't ever see Wave actually going to court. That's never the intention for either party. It's merely the threat of litigation that forces the hand.
Also, I believe you're wrong when you say it takes years to go to court. That's simply not true. It goes to court fairly soon (months). What drags it out is all of the motions to delay, and dismiss etc. All of this costs our little starving company money. However, the point here is, the process itself doesn't take years to begin, even if it takes that long for court proceedings. While I agree that it would, and likely will drag on if this is the pattern, Wave would have to make enough money to support this tact throughout.
While it's the right approach for a rich company.... It's not for a poor one. Better to say now, this is what I got, take it or leave it.
My opinion with luckily no personal experience.
T123
to prove my point - just do a google search on any one of them. Try Bernard M. Gross, the most recent. They have CAs out against Sportsline.com, Nike, and a host of others. They don't do this just to spend their time and money, and not get any in return.
Don't believe that if you say something often enough, someone's gonna believe it as gospel. These law firms have to be dealt with. Either in a private settlement, or in court. True not all will get enough to file, but I gotta believe some will. We'll see what happens.
p.s. you might wish you were me if ya really got to know me.
awk - I thing they make them go away. Wave doesn't have the money to fight them in court. That's more truth than whether they're right or worng. Wave doesn't have the time or the money to play this way. I believe they have to settle out here. Just my opinion. If you think ALL of the law firms are gonna fold up tent and go away, I don't think they will.
All speculation and opinion. But, to think they'll all just go away quietly is almost harder to believe.
bdooley - I look at Wave as everywhere and nowhere. To be quite honest without my usual touches of sarcasm, I believe that TPMs are being associated to Wave way more than they deserve to be so far. We only need to hear of TPM deployment numbers in conjunction with Wave downloads and activation rates of both out-of-the-box and premium services software.
If TPMs are deployed in the millions, and activations are little to none, I don't see Wave being well thought of. Conversely, if they are the manager of secrets, and the keeper of keys, as all believe they will be, and activation percentages are high when they finally decide it's time to tell us, then I think Wave'll be everything we always wanted them to be.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see won't we? Because the answers aren't rolling off their lips just yet now are they? To be predictive, if I may, I think Wave will try to settle out all of the pending litigations cases against them first, with some sort of settlement. That's what I'd do if I were them.
T123
Snacks - Not to be contrarian, because I hope the poster is right, but it's hard to argue with hearsay, or accept it as fact. It's also hard to argue when there's no amount or range stated in their post. Is a penny good enough?
I don't give much credibility to this, because there's no basis of fact behind it.
toro - I don't hink it can be said any better, or more sincerely than that.
Well done
regards,
Tampa123
bdooley - makes you wonder what?
howard b. - my bad. please forgive me. You did a very good job of fooling me
Oh - could've fooled me. Too much coffe I guess
Oh, and Howard b. - Did you even read my post to Doma. I believe that I specifically said what I believe in it, and it almost echoes word for word what you told me I didn't get.
T
howard b. It is you who doesn't get it.
I am not a business issue. I am an investor who helped fund this company. The sooner you start realizing what you are, the sooner you might stop looking at yourself as a Steven's boy. This company is not Steven's to throw away, or keep sercret. If he wanted a private company, then he should've kept it private. I am entitled to know where the business is, and when, and how much money the company expects to make, every time I ask him. Which I do ask him. If you're comfortable with what Steven's told you so far, good for you!
But I get it just fine....
T123
Doma - No! Perhaps you can continue to ignore the business dynamics of a company that can't give visibility into increasing shareholder value for 3+ years now, and 2+ years since their latest product development. But I don't see where I'm harming their cause any more than you're helping it.
It is what it is. You publicly, and I less so, both believe that Wave has been dilligently and relentlessly working to create a dynasty that will ultimately culminate in all of us impatient non-doubters being as rich as you always confident types. I simply choose to navigate the wait differently than you. In your perfect world, that makes me imperfect.
But, in my world, it's what keeps me involved. Dot-connecting is another way of staying involved. It may be no more accurate (in the end) than what I say, on occasion. IT simply passes the time.
Am I harming you in some way?
Am I bothering you in some way?
Do I try to knock you off your optimistic position?
Perhaps I'm not the one truely disturbed.
You can always ignore me, or debate me directly on whether my position or yours is more accurate. But please don't try to play the role of elitist with me. I've not invested 'your money' in my future.
regards,
T123
eamonshute - careful there Artie! You're shoowing your age.
T123
wavehello - we can only hope they do, because we have no proof that they do. So, until they do, the answer is 'NO'
barge and others - well then, so far, you're in good company, because neither you nor Steven have made anything happen that benefits a shareholder yet. Until it does, it's all conjecture, and vaporware.
I no longer want to hear what Wave can do, or can become. And I don't think I'm alone in that. I want to see them do it now. I want to see something that should happen, actually happen.
I don't care about KidCard if it doesn't make me money. I can get on AOL IM and talk to a whole different community of people that I have nothing in common. At least with all of you, I at least have hope, and a lot of unanswered prayers. The two you mentioned (KidCard and a Wave dominated Web Services environment) are only the short list.
Rascals Comedy Club
Realtor Signatures
Gambling or Gaming
Finread and their predecessor (wow, I forgot their name now)
HPs merger partner (who were they again?)
PBS for WaveXpress
Fantastic and Wave
Sarnoff and Wave
Scientific Antlantic and Wave
Tallan and Wave
NEC and wave
Atos and Wave
NSM and Wave - Show me, don't tell me
beTrusted and Wave
EDS and Wave
Maximus and Wave
SSP and Wave
Biz Interactive And Wave
Alkamai and Wave
go2net and Wave
Ntru and Wave
AMD and Wave
Hitachi and Wave
Comodo and Wave
Smart Card Alliance and Wave
SCM Microsystems and Wave
DocuTech and Wave
DigitalHollywood and Wave
Aladdin Knowledge Systems and Wave
Capitol Broadcasting, DTV Plus and Wave
SkyStream and Wave
Phillips and Wave
Trusted Logic and Wave
RSA and Wave
I'm not done, I'm just getting too depressed.
Barge - I suppose if you're always first to suggest that Wave is in everything, you'll probably get one right sometime. ))
T123
Congratulations to you too queen Weby
Also my best regards,
Tampa123
King Weby - Congratulations from Austin Texas
I am working, and now living here in Austin, returning to your area only occasionally now. But, I just read the great news. That is wonderful news. I wish all of your family the very best.
My very best regards
Tampa123
cmf - what are you saying? That Wave doesn't even have their "Wave will be presenting at" PRs down pat anymore either?
T123
Snackman - Thank you for your comments. I recognize my frustration on my own at times, and really do make an effort to be fair to both Wave, and myself, at the same time. While I've certainly taken note of what is supposed to happen in the 3rd and 4th qtr this year, and I'd agree with the assertion that millions of TPMs could be in the field by the 3rd or 4th quarter, I must still wonder if that, in-and-of-itself is the real answer that we're looking for? For example:
What if 90% of the TPMs in the field are Atmel's, or more simply put, not Wave's TPMs? There still could be millions out there, but what does that mean to me as a shareholder in this situation? Very little. And, what if few find value in exercising activation of Wave's premium services? What does having millions of non-Wave TPMs in the field mean under this circumstance? In other words, there are still questions that have no solid answers, even if there are millions of TPMs scheduled to be in the field.
So, to be fair, I will try to wait for the next conference call to get some of these answers. Or, would you suggest I wait another quarter for these answers also? Surely a company that expect millions of TPMs being depolyed by the 3rd and 4th quarters should be able to address some of these questions now, wouldn't you agree? Or is it too early?
Please let me know, because I don't want to get all balled up over this too if I'm not justified in doing so. While I've always agreed with the Kool-Aid brigade's take on what the ultimate prize will likely be for us shareholders, I'm not as include to just endlessly stir the pitcher, so as to keep the Kool-aid from settling to the bottom year-in and year-out.
So 'Yes' Snackman you have my word that I will not sell any of my shares in anticipation of Wave finally delivering appreciable, and predictable revenues this year and beyond. But, I cannot promise that I won't take opportunities now and again to express my displeasure over the wait and the continued uncertainties. It's my right as a shareholder, and a poster. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks the way that I do. By expressing these feelings rationally, and with a carefully balanced consideration, who knows, I may even be doing this board a favor. Did you uever consider that?
Ya should. I'm waiting.... Just not so patiently as before.
I still applaud you that you can, but also find it a bit uncommon too at times. But, since you've been patient with me most of the time, who am I to judge.
Regards,
Tampa123
tkc - -Yes, we disagree. Having a product ready for market for the past two + years, and showing really no revenues to-date is underperforming. You can box it up, put a bow on it, and hand-deliver your definition of success, and as a shareholder, I don't buy it. Performance in revenues is the only true measure of success in the investment community. And, if I'm not mistaken, the original question that you asked was wondering why the share price is going down.
I gave you my answer. You don't have to agree. That's fine with me. But, a 12+ year development company that self-proclaims that they're now in the selling mode, and still have nothing to show for it, is a good reason why the share price is where it is.
Now, that being said, do I believe that they have built the relationships they need to be successful in the future?
YES! That's why I'm still in this stock. But history has clearly shown that, thus far, the partners are more in control of Wave's ultimate success than Wave is.
T123
tkc - It's really very simple. Until Wave proves they can monetize their business model, these fluctuations are inevitable. We've had enough of the Wave will be demonstrating PRs too. Where Wave is share price-wise is indicitive of their lack of performance. Who's to say where they actually should be considering they've had less than 6-digit revenues forever, expept for the period when someone else paid them for development. It wasn't revenues related to validating their business model.
Everyone who has spoken to a Wave executive, and we all know which executive I mean, always comes back with the same story ~ and that is, that the outlook always looks brightest 6-9 months out. Yet, 6 - 9 months later, the outlook looks brightest 6 - 9 months out. Again and again. Now some would have you believe, or you may even think it yourself, that I'm more down on Wave than up on Wave, and that many find it hard to understand why I stay with this stock.
Well, I've always said that this is my business, just like your investment is your business. But, it's hard to argue with the fact that everyone on this board that is a long is waiting for the day that our most senior executive finally says, "The time is here. No longer are we gonna wait 6 - 9 months. No longer do you all have to see 5-digit revenues. No longer will you have to guess what we're up to, or what we've been up to. Hwere it is, and it's great!"
We've already heard him say, "No you're right, we can no longer continue with 5-digit revenues" How long ago was that? We've already heard him say that, "other OEMs were going to announce their intentions soon. Now granted, that's up to them to decide when they want to release that news, but it sure isn't a good sign of how well he's in the know if he's always off base.
Ahhhhhh --- yada yada yada yada.. I'm actually tired of reading this rhetoric myself now. I've said it all before.
Pure and simple --- -WAVE NEEDS TO MAKE MONEY NOW, AND WE SHOULD BE SURPRISED OVER NOTHING THAT HAPPENS UNTIL THEY DO. However, we should never be surprised if the share price reflects what Wave is actually worth at times, or even worse, is still high.
T123
Seems pretty obvious to me
Atmel TPMs rolled out for IBM, because IBM owns a portion of the Manage Operations (MO) space. Because it does, it can make a good case for needing TPMs in their own MO evironments, and in those areas where interface into their MOs is a necessary evil.
This may also be why the other players have not PR'd any significant rollouts:
a. Because they don't have these MO contracts in place, and
b. They're more of the next generation TPM 1.2 mold, being tested by someone, somewhere, or everywhere and nowhere.
As these other players (NSM, Infineon, Intel, and ultimately IBM) move to install 1.2 and make the Centrino / Longhorne, or some intermediate MS phase a reality, they are probably being bundled with orginal alpha test versions of the new MS Windows OS due out in 2 - 3 phases leading to a massive 2005 rollout. This is likely why Barge reported that the second half of 2004 will be much more visible, and why 2005 should be the hockey stick.
If this is a valid hypothesis, then it would explain why Atmel is: 1) possibly being left at the alter, and 2) why the others have not come out announcing in mass yet. IT's likely all of the integrated bugs, etc. are still being tested and ironed out for the next WAVE (excuse the play on words)
Yeah! That's the ticket!
T123 ---- Just keepin myself amused with contemplation of genius.