Washington Mutual Mortgage Reinsurance, Inc. - stock holders won in this major bankruptcy case.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
What's JPM going to say about WMI suing the FDIC? JPM should sue them to for setting them up for this failure!
I'm here in Seattle and I think the hasty grab by JPM and the FDIC hurt us deeply. It hurts at a time when the economy is already slow. The long, drawn out confusion further contributes to insult of the forced take over. I'm going to benefit from this improvement in circumstances and I hope many other Northwesterners do too.
Thanks for asking.
Best to all who have hung on.
Joseph
Washington Mutual Bank's holding company just filed suit claiming fraudulent conveyance by the FDIC. See the WAMUQ board for more info. It's been a long, quiet wait. Might see a jump in price and volume on Monday. Commons closed at about .04 today.
I always get a good lift reading the consistent diamondguru one!
Thanks diamond!
Sometimes judges will award more than asked but I'm no lawyer.
Go WAMU!
I have to start giving back now that I have learned a few things. Glad I could be some help. I do hope that someone sets up a party for the stock holders if and when this goes ballistic. I wish I had more to put in here.
Thank you Billiam for your clarity. That is the kind of advice I have learned is worth listening to, in contrast to the hit and run posts that try to discourage or confuse the facts.
What I have learned watching these stocks daily using L2 and intraday charting as well as reading this board, (thanks to many including Zardiw and Jackson and many others), is that the small buys of 100 shares, and such, establishes the price at that moment and if they want to keep the price down they simply buy and sell at the bid. All things considered, up to right now the appetite for this stock among buyers is currently satiated and there are many less risky or more immediately rewarding plays. All this is my opinion, unlike the blatantly stated proclamations of doom by others.
These stocks are still trading because they represent a rather solvent entity which is in negotiations for a settlement that recovers damages due to a hasty and fumbled "merger" or seizure and sale. If it weren't fumbled it would be done and much more clear about what the outcome will be. Anyone who says they know how this will turn out is simply mistaken. What will happen is that lawyers will follow due process, the judge will make decisions and the company owners and executives will comply or continue legal maneuvering. A benefit to those who hope for a return is that our current administration is leaning toward a more just and fair union and business environment, unlike the previous one.
Banker, The MMs have been doing all they can to control this for months and months. The trading pattern is highly restricted by thousands of very small trades by MMs, trades which mock the "free market" idea that individual traders like myself come to market with. It's kind of like the layer of decision makers between the people and the final election results, the electoral college. The market makers, MMs, get to mess with the "votes" in a way. It seems to me the power that large banking institutions have on targeted securities, such as WAMUQ, WAMKQ, WAMPQ is profound. I don't know the inner workings, incentives, or means by which they employ individuals or software to restrict securities to particular ranges but I can assure you that JPM has no interest in seeing these stock prices go up since they may very well have to pay for their involvement dearly by assessing the market value and then providing some related cash in exchange for damages to the company and it's stock holders. I invite discussion on this matter while we wait out the remain weeks of process.
Hi Pawsy, The suit I have been referring to is yet to be filed and so the defendants are not fully identified. It is not a class action suit that will determine the future ownership of WMI assests. Currently it is the WMI ownership and their attorneys that are demanding that the take over be revisited, to say the least!
Hi John,
Though JPM attorneys have tried their best to confuse the issues with legal blather they have met their match on this one. Also, the judge/s will take the time needed to make solidly defensible decisions while making the best out of a bad situation. Justice is and has always been relative, right? But, I just want to provide a little clarity on the fundamentals here, as you are doing as well.
Fundamentally, the mistakes are on record now. How the settlement looks is still up in the air but WMI will not be harmed further due to court action, in my opinion. They may collect damages, which is not unusual when fraudulent conveyance, and things like that such as negligence, intentional misrepresentation, breach of contract, etc. is on the table.
This is a rather simplified legal framework, I think.
Jim Cramer is, right now, making this same argument about short selling. He is not wrong to do so! lol
This is a fight, with a capital F. The court documents are enough for anyone with half a brain to conclude that real money is going after justice. Justice of some type will be served, whether Congress, President Obama, Geitner, Dimon, or even WAMU execs like the outcome, it's beyond any one group controlling the outcome now. The threat of a law suit is clearly in play. Once it is filed then a deal will be worked out or legal precedent begins to be applied. Precedent may not be easy to find but we know the FDIC can loose, we also know that JPM can sue FDIC and they can both loose. Imagine the FDIC wanting to avoid a suit from JPM too. WMI has already lost so it can only go up from here. The courts and judges will not join the confusion, they will slice this knot open and let the past fade. IMHO, WAMU stock holders who have had the sense to average down will be glad they did and those who got in after the BK will profit handsomely. This is my humble opinion on the eve of our destiny. (a little pomp and circumstance added for fun.)
LOL and really. But this won't be sidelined. This is an historical turn of events in banking. The settlement will be studied for years to come.
No charges were filed in that past investigation. The class action law suit is about getting paid for the stock they have/ had in WAMU primarily. There will be a deal struck so our banking system can be made whole sooner rather than later. Common sense and common law actually over ride in emergency situations such as the scenario we are in now. IMHO.
Questionable bank run, i.e. 16 billion out, is being investigated, no doubt. Jim sCramer has said it many times, "...everyone knows its wrong and everyone does it... rumoring and short selling..." Last Spring to Fall was a perfect time for those who knew how to pull the strings to do so. JPM, Paulson, and the OTS did this without respect to the damages to the Northwest, it's citizens, and our home town bank. They did this in the guise of protecting the U.S. economy! To hasty indeed!
IT IS NOT ALL HYPOTHETICAL AT THIS POINT.
WE KNOW THE LAWYERS ARE GETTING PAID TO GET OUR MONEY BACK. THAT IS NOT A THEORY. THIS STOCK IS GOING UP ON NEWS. THAT IS NOT A THEORY. WMI IS FIGHTING FOR ITS LIFE. THAT IS NOT A THEORY. JPM WANTS TO LEGALLY OWN WM BANKS. THAT IS NOT A THEORY. I COULD GO ON.
"The G-20 officials also called for financial reforms, including
registration and regulatory oversight of all credit-rating agencies,
transparency for off-balance-sheet vehicles and improved accounting
standards."
Credit Rating Agencies are paid more for each derog so they are incentivized to keep inaccurate records to the determent of the borrower and lender.
The credit equation is simple: income minus expenses equals "disposable income". A debt to income ratio of 50% is reasonable, anything over that cuts too far into national savings and thereby jeopardizes the whole U.S. economy.
Fast forward to a mass realization that the whole thing is just how we want to make it! Whoa. Now that would stop gold from going to moon, and it would provide basics for everyone. From there we can learn to engineer vitality into a "free market". IMHO. The idea that this market was ever "free" is a false assumption and misconception. One is always subject to something and thus never completely "free". Over abundance with little leadership or experience has produced over consumption, and a new kind of poverty.
Anyway, it's all how you want to value it; mark to market is probably going to go the way of the gold standard, eventually, in some form or another.
J in Seattle
Never let it be said, and never let it go unchallenged - that tired old sentiment; "I can't do anything about it...".
I can always do something about "it", and Jackson is!
And I am too. I will follow up as well and I have been spreading the story so people can look into it.
J in Seattle
Jackson, That's the way to be.
Your grasp of the details can be put to service for America. This is called "policing ourselves" !
Thank you.
J in Seattle
huh? SuperChris15, If you want your trash hauled, your streets cleared, the kids watched at school all day, the taxes collected, the water clean, and the electricity to stay on, you better start changing your tune. What you are saying boils down to "every man for himself". That's what we just tried for the last 8 f'n years, dude. Any more of that and people are just going to stay home. It's already crumbling; roads, bridges, postal service, electrical outages. Bottom line, virtuous leadership in service to community trumps free reign capitalism.
Or, have been asleep for the last few years?
J in Seattle
I like that analysis; well written, ( a few typos), good reasoning, facts seem accurate, and the conclusion refers to the 40% rise in WAHUQ today, which indicates the logic is sound.
J in Seattle
The IRS system is the problem, not the new Treasury guy.
The IRS system is exotic, peculiar, overly complex, mismanaged, inefficient, obtuse, complicated beyond understanding, and staffed by people who do their best in a bad situation.
Many elected officials, and many citizens, are offended by the IRS system. Most agree it needs to be overhauled.
Our new guy is young, energetic, intelligent and has profusely apologized for his oversight.
Let's move on with the new leadership and give them a break. If Geitner reads the most recent filing he will see the clear choice he has to support WMI's reasoning. That decision will not
be affected by his tax payment mistake.
J in Seattle
The buildings' title and ownership records are public information. Most counties have record of ownership on their websites for the purpose of providing public access to tax revenue sources. That's one way to find out who owns the buildings.
Real Estate is often considered an asset but it is all about equity, i.e. value above loans and costs. The appraisals are the final word on value and it takes lots of time to get commercial appraisals for so many properties. What's the total equity WMI has in real estate? It's more literally a "holding company" now, until it get's back into the banking business. Just my 2 cents today.
J in Seattle
Z D,
Thanks for that link to the video card that runs 4 monitors on one PCIe slot. Nice. Amazon has it for $150ish. I spent hours Sunday sorting through options. I like the Gigabyte Motherboards, MBs, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128075 or this MB;
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=473&model=1474&modelmenu=1
and the CPU: AMD Phenom 9950 BLACK EDITION 2.6GHz Socket AM2+ 140W Quad-Core Processor
The card you mentioned does reduce the cost of bringing on 4 monitors in one way but it ups the cost of the power supply to get it to 650w and the the specs reccomend a case that might be more expensive then the one I have in hand...
Since I have never run more than one monitor on each machine I wonder how one card will work better than 2.
Just some thoughts for others who may want to build a trading station. The market is going to surge forward sometime in the next year, maybe, I want to be ready!
J in Seattle
Finally, it's here, the door way into virtual realty. Thanks for the research Z D. I was at Tom's site but I just wasn't thinking big enough.
And I've been configuring a desktop with 3 monitors, : (
When I get this consoule I will hire a nurse / assistant with tech support skills that can cook. I would have to use a bib though... due the recliner feature, but's okay.
J
Monk, I would suggest no upgrades for you! Don't fix it if it's working and it's working for you and the rest of us!
J
Z_d,
You and I should take this to email. This is the type of conversation I need. I'm not a paid member this month on ihub, next month I will be. Send me a pm with your email.
I have Ubuntu here but now that there is a install that goes on top of XP I will download that. Thanks.
My trading station goal is going to require that I build a Quad Core, 64 bit machine but that's not out of my league. It's just putting all the pieces together in the most cost effective manner. I like Asus MBs, and I have a case here that will work. I'm not a gamer, I just want the trading data in my face so to speak.
I can get 2 flat screens for the first machine and work forward from there. I still have 3 other machines working anyway. Actually, I want to set up a server and stop using 3 versions of everything! I'll take a good look at the multi monitor device next.
J
OS 7 from Microsoft is free for the fist 2 million. It's beta but it's good. I downloaded it from their site but haven't installed it. I did hear it is fine from another techie type.
I was looking at the configuration Monk has... I'm still trying to piece it together. Thanks for asking what OS he is running. I like XP Pro too.
He has 5 monitors and one computer? Ummm. I can see getting 5 monitors running off 2 computers but I'm not seeing 5 monitors off one, even with 2 video cards. Each card can run 2 monitors so one computer could run 4 monitors but can 1 computer run 5 if there are 2 video cards in there? Monk?
TIA, Joseph in Seattle
super cool. Thanks! Take your time. Joseph
Hello Monk,
Would you be so kind as to spec out that 5 monitor set up in the ibox of this board? huh? could ya', could ya'? I had a vision about 25 years ago that one day I would have that set up, or something similar. I'm almost there... 3 computers but I'm still running one laptop and 2 CRTs. It's almost time for the real deal. TIA, Joseph
What he said!
Hey Viva, thanks for the great DD and excessive belly laughs!
twkgq right?
Mord,
Thanks for that! I'm in the bullion business and I had heard of the massive gold manipulation but wasn't sure how that was being done.
Islandcat,
Can you find a link to that article? I want to call the reporter who wrote that!
J in Seattle
Z, Here's what I see that is a bit confusing.
I'm glad to hear that the BK court can undo things but that would only benefit the company that is bringing suit, and not the share holders of WAMU. The holding company would bring suit and then get damages paid upon some settlement.
Today's news of goodwill firms up the value preseizure, and a settlement that the holding company may get would also firm up the value of the WM Inc preseizure but these valuations don't help the stock price until the court, or someone with authority to force JPM's hand to swap shares for shares. get's their job done.
In a nutshell, I hope tax dollars go to settle in favor of tax payers on this one. There's got to be a way to acknowledge a higher value to the benefit of the consumer/tax payer/citizen at large over the obscene benefit to JPM. Fact is that JPM's 8K earning figure would have been okay if it were closer to the norm. JPM just made out huge on the up side on this deal. Is that all going to be done on the backs of share holders? Why? Give me one good reason why these shares should not be worth at least $8!
J in Seattle