Washington Mutual Mortgage Reinsurance, Inc. - stock holders won in this major bankruptcy case.
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I listened to the court hearing recording from Wednesday, May 20th.
The judge said,"Just simply having the two parties be the same doesn't mean it's related, (but)[ I inserted the "but" ] discovery should be limited."
Either the two parts of that sentence follow from one another or they don't. That seems to be the crux of the decision. They should have and probably will go over this before the decision.
It's like saying two things at once, or one thing. Depending on her eventual ruling.
She is either going to agree with WMI or JPM.
And the JPM attorney said, "I completely agree ..."
Well, she doesn't completely agree with the judge! That's b.s. from the JPM attorney right there. I don't think the JPM attorney took the time to fully understand the judge. The judge is also saying that the opposite is also true!
The judge is clearly siding with WMI when she says, "Just because the two parties are the same doesn't mean the discovery requests are directly related to one another."
The judge moments later said, "One half of the D.C. case..." meaning that at least half that case is party to the case at hand.
The judge's statement is not that clear. She puts a tail on the end of her statement; "discovery should be limited". The JPM attorney only heard that part, but remember, "discreet" means limited and that's what WMI attorneys are requesting; discreet discovery.
Furthermore, why trust that discovery will happen later? Why?
I just listened to the complete recording of the hearing on Wednesday, May 20th.
The judge had more questions and more dialogue with WMI representatives. By doing so she is hearing them out and she is not disagreeing with them.
The decision she must make about the request for discovery is not so hard to make in my mind now.
Discovery for tortuous claims related to a calculated take down leading up to the FDIC seizure is at hand now in this action, in this court, in this case to further resolve this case.
If she has a choice between now and later I don't see why she would choose later unless there is some law or precedent that says the discovery can't or must not take place here and now. That is my take on this matter. If discovery had already been granted and was underway in a similar case by the same parties that would be one thing, but it isn't!
Of course there are questions about whether discovery should, could, and whether it will later occur, but for the matter at hand, it is either now or more likely never given the contentious nature of JPM's stance. They shouldn't be trusted.
I look forward to hearing her explanation of her eventual ruling regarding discovery.
I wouldn't trust JPM if I were her. On that alone I would rule in favor of WMI. After all, JPM attorneys have admitted that they will fight to keep the 4 billion, solely on the grounds that if they get to keep it, it will go to their "constituents" as though that is a good reason to fight for something that isn't theirs.
The obtuse nature, or hair splitting nature, and legalese of the JPM attorney's characterization of her client's disposition on the case is enough to want to get out a 2x4 and knock the bats out of her belfry.
The fine art of sounding like one is saying something of substance when, in fact, it is not of substance and maybe not even related is, well a fine art.
We need young people to study and learn ways to exercise law without room for bald faced b.s.
.
See, that's the thing the bashers are overlooking.
The last law suit filed by Weil is going for tortuous claims which are settled with punitive damages, often 3 times the damage.
So, when DI or whomever comes around with some idea of how these stock prices are going to be lower than Diamond's estimates please remember, there are pressures in both directions.
A slew of lawyers is working on some complex settlement that ends this once and for all, no doubt. But what that number is and how the FDIC and JPM are going to "save face" so to speak, for the good of the faith in our economy by the masses, is a big, big question.
I'm not underestimating the importance of politics here. This actually must be managed in the press and politically speaking because the dark side of this is, in fact, the tyranny that our Democracy is suppose to protect us from!
Accidental or not, tyrannical behavior by Hank Paulson and the Bush admin, aided by Sheila Bair, inadvertently or not is the stuff of the dark ages and blood in the streets, etc. etc.
Don't imagine anything but a reasonable settlement, like a messy divorce but without the child support and alimony!
It is a catch 22 thing, like that.
That's probably adding to the pressure on JPM but with the mind set of the "untouchable" nature of JPM as a US government special case bank I to believe the US Treasury is in on this.
The managers on this could very well be wrangling about these very topics now. They are only human.
I would venture to say that there will be some very high level discussions about the quagmire.
JPM's books will look very bad and thus the banking sector will take a big hit if WMB's get wrestled away from them because the FDIC paid WMI off.
No one has ever been in charge of such a large, fat, sloppy mess of a financial debacle.
What they are going to do is try to have JPM keep the bank and pay off WMI.
We may find ourselves asking Weil to lighten up and take the deal before this is over! LOL
Add the "court issue" of WMI being in BK proceedings and you have a pretty good idea of what directly relates to this stock.
The class action suits have a bearing too but they are delayed for awhile.
They asked for it when they went for it!
It's like an dirty deed... one pays the price sooner or later.
But,but, but, the settlement may have the condition that no more suits are allowed if they accept the quadrillion dollars they are demanding. lol
Turn it up! WMI has a good case and people are on the line.
It's time to make this turn, upward.
This is what some people call "the good fight".
http://www.higherbalancejourney.com/ Did I send this to you yet?
Now you are talking my language Mehedi.
Reality! Let me tell you about reality!
What is reality is what is happening now, today.
WMI is hot on the trail of their assets and Jamie Dimon's picture is being published along side more articles about the missing 4 billion and counting. That's reality too!
Highly paid lawyers are minions in this case.
I'm sorry for the JPM lawyers, in a way.
What is their point; We want it!!! We Want It! So, let's us have it! Sheila gave it to us! Sheila said we could have it!
The pendulum is swinging back to the other way.
It's not a religious thing to do what is fair. When businesses slow down, people have more time to feel and think. That's when better decisions are made.
We don't know what the heck is actually going on. An experienced attorney could sense the stage in which the negotiations are at now, maybe.
I see the word, "review" used a lot. That means there is material to actually review and look at rather than create for the first time.
imho
lmao
I wouldn't put any tricks past the JPM minions among the MMs.
They do stuff... no doubt!
I just checked with the broker rep at my trading service. They said disregard the .02 after hours. Close was .11.
vol 3,333,086
closed where it opened.
tight spread .105x.11 1x2 or something like that.
Yep. This is a study in heavy weight posturing and high level folly.
No wonder people feel demoralized. The morals of the leaders are appalling. Why would an individual manager with so much on the line wait for a court to force him to do the blatantly correct thing?
He needs a personal development course! lol
This is also true, Wamook.
I see this as you do. Human systems are simply not perfect and it takes the collective imagination and hope to keep things working. Justice should be dealt out with a touch of savvy and finesse.
Legitimacy is the idea of balancing the hope with the facts.
So, just because justice is not done completely all the time we can still have some justice, a la a settlement.
4.5 billion, get a free calculator here: http://www.moffsoft.com/
For those who have been watching WAMUQ daily for months and months and months, the pattern is abundantly obvious. Thanks for more facts and details.
I agree.
That sounds good.
JPM better pay back the interest too. I wonder what the counter argument is on this. I think Jackson posted something about JPM possibily insisting that records show that the money was earned by WMB, then given to WMI for now consideration, I guess, so therefore it is really WMB's money or something.
What are the rules to this "game" and who sets them up and who enforces them? That's what bankers want to know.
As long as Sheila Bair is in charge I think people are going to be very worried! lol
The FDIC, the Treasury, and the public will have something to say about this "settlement" if JPM just digs in to hold onto billions that do not belong to them.
Talk about bad press. It may be time for people to talk about things like boycotting and the like. The press is starting to get the story out.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292009/business/wamu_says_dimon_took_illegal_windfall_166693.htm
This is just too good to be overlooked.
Share freely. Washington Mutual Bank was taken over and since last October JPM has been holding not only the bank's property but billions of dollars of property not owned by the bank. IMHO.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292009/business/wamu_says_dimon_took_illegal_windfall_166693.htm
This is just too good to be overlooked.
Share freely. Washington Mutual Bank was taken over and since last October JPM has been holding not only the bank's property but billions of dollars of property not owned by the bank. IMHO.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292009/business/wamu_says_dimon_took_illegal_windfall_166693.htm
This is just too good to be overlooked.
Share freely. Washington Mutual Bank was taken over and since last October JPM has been holding not only the bank's property but billions of dollars of property not owned by the bank. IMHO.
This is what so many people want to see in print -
Insulated corporate managers out in the open.
No doubt they are. The 10K mentions this because they must be upfront about the litigation.
LOL sadly it is possible.
http://blogs.bnet.com/mba/?p=755&tag=nl.e713 Relevant if we want to avoid this b.s. in the future.
A year ago I called a personal development trainer and told him I thought I would like to promote a workshop in NY for the financial consultants and financial services employees. He said they wouldn't attend!
LOL
I think this amounts to announcement to the general public that there is, in effect, a lien on at least the 4 billion deposit.
Vista, That is an important distinction. Thanks.
Diamond, the readers need this type of specificity.
Apparently so. Put me in a room with him. Please. Lock the door for 24 hours. No food, no water. Just he and I talking. In a friendly way.
Read Mordicai's recent post and if you don't understand it take the time necessary to understand it. Mehedi is correct, I think.
JPM has no grounds what so ever to hold this money. An honorable manager would have released it to the owners months ago.
My "idiotic" attitude, as someone recently said, is not so idiotic if one considers that virtue, though not always allowed in the board room, must be brought back to the board room to make capitalism sustainable.
Right now, holding that 4 billion is like saying "We like the protection of the government and the courts. They let us take this and we like having it."
In the same day, Jamie is saying he wants to give back the TARP money. Give back the 4 billion to a WMI first.
This is true. Common perception of BK is that it is the fault of the file, exclusively. But all business deals have at least 2 parties.
Even when a deal is solicited, the buyer sometimes defaults or litigates, etc.
Would JPM offered more to WMI if WMI had not sued the FDIC and JPM?
The BK judge will hear reason and judge properly soon, imho.
Soon is within 30 to 60 days.
That's funny... in a sad way. They don't work on Thursday nights. LOL
Do you want to correct that last line in your post?
Great stuff Mordicai. Thanks.
It's not all that easy to stay calm and hold a few solid thoughts in focus with so much drama and noise going on around this deal.
I want to remain focused on the reason I got in here early.