Washington Mutual Mortgage Reinsurance, Inc. - stock holders won in this major bankruptcy case.
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Sounds good. Thanks for the insigths.
thank you.
Fsshon, Yep, AND let's not go there from here.
I'm pleased to learn all I can about the past and I thank you for the clarity. Yep, the free for all was enjoyed and supported by most on both sides.
I'm here to learn and add what I can.
One of the underlying themes of this whole case/s is the fact that deregulation under the super wealthy conservative government with ties to the military industrial complex created a business environment that lead to this event.
That is a given in my book. With that in mind, the case is unfolding and the debate about what the court filings mean, the risk and reward forecast, and the short term share price projections rage.
Other undercurrents also rage, but to challenge the idea that the past administration had something profound to do with this current mess is begging for a drubbing. But then, Lawrence seems to like to engage in that manner. The tone of his postings is often confrontational though well thought out and informative none the less.
It likely is: group-think. But at those last hours when Paulson, Bair and Dimon took part in a deal to seize and transfer WMB to JPM/Chase, it was individuals who were responsible and are responsible for those decisions. They are leaders of the group/s.
This is off topic.
WMI is a company from the NW. The NW is predominantly progressive social environment, even with you as a local.
I will bash whom I wish, as long as I wish, and whatever basis I wish especially as it relates to WMI on this board. You can stop bashing Bush bashers anytime. That is unrelated to the subject at hand. The past is full of conservative, fear-based, "free market" bullies who expand their concepts of power and dominance beyond their natural boarders regularly. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with you on the fundamentals of democratic process.
Bottom line: The dominant banks and related personnel did what the fourth branch of government does well; what ever they want.
All the complex explanations, as detailed and factual as they may be, are about humans doing stupid human tricks. The standard is tyranny, and financial tyranny was the way of the previous federal administration. That attitude has been replaced with a more progressive mindset in Obama's crew.
All parties and each individual have made mistakes. At the core of this show down is a debate about the FDIC banking laws and whether they were broken.
Agreed?
Excellent work Lawrence. Thank you for bringing these details out front.
Since the beginning of this saga I have wondered just what person decided to put JD in charge!
That's basically what happened. I think it was Paulson. And then Bair took Paulson's word that everything would be fine if she let Jamie Dimon have WMB, after all JPM was already intimately familiar with WMB! Problem is; that's not okay! Bad business and even worse, laws were broken.
After years under the "see no evil" policies of Bush these people didn't think anyone was watching or would care.
Good point; JPM is definitely on the defensive.
The end... the end is coming! the end is coming! lol
BK can NOT drag out forever!
I would not doubt that given the way the managers where doing business back at the end of the mindless reign of Bush.
I like that one Doc. It reminds me of when I said I wouldn't let go of my shares unless I was on fire and they were water!
The employees of JPM that are being paid to represent or misrepresent the facts are in a corner. It would seem that the JPM attorneys know they are not correct or they would be in a much better position in their current court battles.
It's unfortunate that JPM management is so stubborn.
lol
I agree with you and your observation is quite accurate; congressional hearing often produce little, but sometimes they produce exposure and they are somewhat of a deterrent, I think.
Alternate methods of exposure and discovery might lead to better results, e.g. grand jury !
Anyway, it if they are having hearings on what happened with Bank of America then they should have hearings on what happened to WMB, imho. It's at least as important and there are at least as many questions to be answered by Sheila Bair, Paulson, and Dimon.
Congressional hearings on the WMB FDIC JPM thing is a MUST in my book. The title could be: What happened to our largest savings in loan?
Was Washington Mutual Bank actually rife with unmanageable debt to the degree that it had, i.e. circumstances demanded, that it be seized? If so what were those circumstances and how can we avoid those in the future? This is all for the best interest of JPM and the FDIC, after all! If JPM is treated like the favored buyer, we might as well protect them from such harsh and unnecessary mergers in the future or they will never trust the FDIC again! Then what will happen when the FDIC has to sell another large banking institution? We better iron this all out before congress. Yep.
I'm too p'd off to discuss this tragedy of errors.
Yep, thanks Millerto. Quinn is probably doing "what ifs" and preparing motions for those scenarios! JPM laywers and FDIC lawyers are a nasty bunch. Quinn has to be locked and loaded for a variety of moves, I guess.
Thank you RRamirez82 for your review and comment on the recent bill by Quinn, a WMI attorney group. No mention of the word "settlement" may mean it is crafted or it may mean it's off the table. I imagine that the possible settlement scenarios are all laid out on paper already but the legal teams have to prepare "what if" scenarios for upcoming possibilities.
Of the many large billboards Chase has rented here in Seattle one reads something like: "Seattle, let's start banking better."
Translation; Let JPM/Chase show you how it's done, walk this way, and now... lol
Paulson on the hot seat tomorrow. Peeling the Citi Bank onion is similar to the WMB one in some ways. I'll bet our judge Walrath will be watching or getting notes on the hearing.
Absolutely. Hope is a form of risk. Risk is the heart and soul of enterprise, the economy, and the simplest forms of trade.
We risk every time we plant a seed. It may grow and it may not.
Those who risk hope enjoy the rewards far more than those who don't, in my opinion.
On a day when the Republicans are reminding the new Supreme Court nominee how the law rules, and must rule, it is stark contract that JPM and the FDIC seem to think otherwise, even to the extent that they would pay top dollar lawyers to try and circumvent the obvious.
Judge Walrath knows the law, I think.
People who have been reading this board, thanks to posters like Fsshon, should be given college credit for business law!
The learning process I have enjoyed since last October is a once in a life time experience for me.
Thanks!
Paulson's threatening or advising phone call on record to Killinger indicates that Treasury didn't know. But, the I expect that WMB management may have prepared ahead of time to be a difficult meal to swallow.
Thanks Mordicai. The idea that JPM lawyers can come up with someone who is willing to state they knew WMI was definitely going to be seized and then put the 4 billion apart is similar to saying that their was definitely fraud involved. It's a catch 22 for JPM. If they have that information, how did they get it? Who would say that and why?
Bottom line; the FDIC system of bank management wasn't prepared to handle modern banking and those laws remain relevant to this case. Holding companies are not seized when the banks are seized. It is that simple, imho.
The holding company was forced into BK by Paulson, Dimon and Bair, colluding or not, they botched the seizure big time. Even if congress was advised that JPM needed a bank at pennies on the dollar to save the U.S. economy that doesn't justify what is happening to WMI! How much more simple can this be?
Corporate entities are entities deserving due process.
I think that the future of Law in this country will include some kind of review of motions! These frivolous manuevers from JPM lawyers is paramount to public exposure and indecency of obesity.
Was it post, 81038 ?
Cents, What did he say? I missed it! lol
Very nice. Thank you cents2ks. The board is alive and well. I've been somewhat out of commission lately.
Exactly.
I see. Thanks.
Since we have speculated that Goldman Sachs maybe making a play, or may have made a play for WMB:
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/407851_goldman04.html?source=pimail
Now I know why the covers are on the signs. How anyone can know what is going to happen on or by the 27th is subject for debate.
thank you for that.
Interesting stories include these elements:
Unusual facts and figures, e.g. the most, the least, one in a million, rare occurances.
Large impacts on a larger than life scale, e.g. everyone, everywhere, forever or never again.
Over coming odds, big challenges, obstacles surmounted.
Change occuring in someone's point of view, e.g. I saw IT that way once, then I learned this, that, and the other thing and now I see IT in a new way.
In each of the above catagories or aspects of interesting stories the story about WMB, WMI, FDIC, and JPM Chase qualify as "interesting". When the share price of JPM tanks because of this problem or WMI stock soars then the movie script will have an ending!
90000912729 WASHINGTON MUTUAL INC 4577 14TH ST W RP
90000917959 WASHINGTON MUTUAL INC 7461 MANATEE AVE W RP
90000960289 WASHINGTON MUTUAL INC 1865 LAKEWOOD RANCH BLVD RP
90000993479 WASHINGTON MUTUAL INC 8309 LOCKWOOD RIDGE RD R
These do not belong to JPM Chase.
Are there Chase signs on these now?
I would like to know.
Chase is simply wrapping old WMB signs in blue plastic. It's as though they are hedging their bet that they will be keeping these branches by not sinking the good money into a real face lift.
Page 10 of that Owl Creek report is HOT HOT HOT.
It's a must read for WMI issue investors.
Of course this looks like it may be a longer payout than I had hoped but it's still priced low so that's the good thing about the current situation.
I don't care what others say about you Diamond!
That's DD !
What I see here in Seatte is Chase's cheap, i.e. low quality looking, newly remodeled branches. The color scheme is two tone, blue and white. They look stupid.
The billboards and the radio ads are patronizing. The key words used in the radio ads are classic buying triggers; nothing creative about it. Not NW in nature imho.
If WMI can get some money together I hope they reenter the market or another bank rises to the occasion.
The whole take over of the NW banks is something... oh forget it.
PPS is going up anyway.
Yes, the community here rocks in a rather professional manner, lol.
Understanding the fundamentals of this drama and power play by insiders: Blair, Paulson, and Dimon, and the blunders they have made is part of the history making events. More people today, get the fundamental blunders, short sightedness, greediness and poor leadership than ever before.
WMI may be the last bank holding company that gets respect from our judicial system when a bank is in troubled waters, but at least it will be the last and not the first to go down with the bank as will holding companies of the future, I imagine.
Dues must be paid by JPM, FDIC and the Federal Government, i.e. the tax payers who chose the leaders that appointed those who road herd over the greed fest of the last 10 years.
Vote wisely in the future and hold your shares 'cause some type of settlement is coming, imho.
Grand, I agree with your succinct portrayal of the WMI/JPM situation. How this will reflect in the share prices is the frustrating part. There should be a class of stocks that the SEC watches more carefully, i.e. software is the answer in my opinion, when on the pink sheets and / or in BK.
The regulation of respectable stock shares of a respectable company is paramount to the personal savings of many people.
The Repubs wanted privatization and free enterprise and they wanted more personal responsibility. So here we are trying to fend for ourselves and look what we get!
MM manipulation by the minions of JPM.