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5.8 million which includes 1.1 million purchased this morning at .0002.
The guy in this video needed a calculator to know that .0075 is 75 times .0001 and that $100 at .001 is $7,500 at .0075? Not a strong confidence builder. But he is right that reinstatement is a positive sign done usually for long term business reasons.
I am new to this board. Paytheask has been telling me great things about CTKH and I have begun at accumulate some shares. Thank you, Pay.
My question/concern. Let's assume that there is a significant naked short position outstanding. It's not unheard of in the penny world. What forces the naked shorts to cover? What if they are overseas and don't cover? The SEC does not have the most enviable track record enforcing the laws on these penny stocks. What can the company and/or shareholders do to get someone to straighten out the ownership situation?
I know there was a case a few years ago where an owner bought back 100% of the shares on his books. Yet the stock continued to trade. This has been dormant for so long I am concerned that the naked shorts will never cover.
When one has nothing profitable to sell, one resorts to financial engineering to pay the bills. Think of it as a transfer from shareholders to executives. It ends when one cannot play games with the stock any more. Regardless, the direction has been clear for a long time. The financial games merely accelerate the decay process.
Certainly Not. But then I would never start a post with 'Wonder if Plant got any time'. I would google him and find out that he is doing 97 months at the Florence ADMAX in beautiful Florence CO, courtesy of Uncle Sam.
You thought enough of the company to lose a few thousand investing. Care about what happened to the man who made that possible and his cohorts at Big Apple.
Surely you can't truly be really the clueless buffoon you portray on this thread? Jimmy is safely out of town for another few years. But he'll be back with a new plan - bigger and more audacious than the last one. Powered by that new government GED, Jimmy's gonna make us all proud. CyberKey was just a warm-up exercise - a test run if you will. CyberKey Solutions II will be bigger and better. Think vibrating drive that satisfies your data needs and more.
As for his cohorts at Big Apple, the news is mixed. Two of the clowns were slammed pretty hard by the government. Unfortunately, the sanctions and fines are all civil. None of those thieves will be smashing rocks for a decade or two. The other two clowns got a fine and promised not to do it again. To call the SEC prosecutors inept and incompetent would be a major insult to those who are just inept and incompetent. Just like Jimmy, these bad seeds will emerge again. The penalty was just was minor league.
Not without some PR and right now, IVFH has none - absolutely none. I know who bought the stock in the last few days. He did so on my opinion. I warned him that while the company was worth about 70% more than the current price, the management seems to have no interest in making the stock price appreciate. My investor indicated that he has patience and therefore he bought.
So don't go get your hopes up thinking Sam has finally found some buyers. He didn't. I did.
If I had the time, I would go back and pull up a similar posting made last year about 2013.
And you may be right. 2014 could be a great year.
Hypothetical question: If a company has a great year and only 137 people know it, is it still a great year?
"If investors ignore these results its (sic) not his fault".
Beg to differ. This is also a part of a CEO's responsibility. Not only is it his responsibility, but what if the lack of conference calls, the buried PR's, the late night earnings releases, the lack of an annual report telling investors about the company's strategy, the fact that no one here can definitely tell us why the Haley Group is a good fit, and why the company has failed to engage shareholders to buy this stock at a 2.5 P/E (your calculation, not mine) is by design and not by accident.
Just asking questions that need to be answered if this stock is ever going to reflect the value many of us think it is worth. I think a fully diluted value of 8 to 10 times earnings is reasonable. BTW, the primary share count is an accounting fiction. The convertible debt holders are simply shareholders who are collecting a nice interest check. They can't get out and have no reason to do so even if they wanted to.
So our second quarter earnings announcement has come and gone with $1,000 worth of trades. Darn impressive.
Glad you think that a P/E of 2.5 seems reasonable. It doesn't to me and I doubt it does to any one else. It may surprise you to know that Sam has hired an IR firm to help him. They have helped him announce another record quarter to virtual silence, to post a PR that virtually no one saw, and to generate almost $1,000 in trading on one of four days a year this company is most likely to trade.
If that doesn't sound de-freakin-plorable to you, then you really should keep your money in a mattress because this is just too complicated. This is a company worth almost twice as much as it sells for. One can only assume management has a reason to keep it low priced. I wonder what that reason could be.
Looks like Sam will be reporting on Loser Day - the last day you can report without filing an appeal for more time. Can someone explain to me how this helps generate confidence that the people running this company are on top of things?
At least they are consistent.
Did you actually read what you just posted? Go back and read it again.
You are telling me Sam's failure to promote the stock benefited him personally as he earns some of his wages in stock. You are also telling me that he made an acquisition with stock valued at a price you and I both believe to be undervalued, in part due to a lack of promotion.
So what are the effects of both transactions. Management holds more stock and friends of management hold more stock. It didn't have to be this way. Had an effective promotion program been in place 18 months ago, the stock might have been 50% higher. By my calculation, it would still be selling for 90 cents on the dollar.
Still convinced management isn't setting this up to go private? You just gave me two more reasons to add to my list of the other day.
Got any more reason to believe the lack of promotion is by design and they are setting this up to go private? Great job on finding these two, Born.
Seriously, Born. Why do you believe what you're told instead of what you see? Let's talk about why he hired the first IR company even before we talk about why he fired them. They were simply unqualified. Sam did a poor job in picking them. And can we ask the rhetorical question, 'why would you hire an IR company at all if you had little intention of promoting the company?'
I'm hearing a lot of excuses for poor performance in the past. The man is making acquisitions and yet he doesn't value a higher stock price to use in making those acquisitions. He hires IR firms with no intention of actually letting them promote. His new IR firm has done little. He can't be bothered to take 45 minutes 4 times a year to talk to shareholders and employees about the company like virtually every other public company does.
Born - sorry. I'm not buying this BS. Sam isn't stupid. None of this makes sense. What you are seeing is by design. He wants frustrated shareholders. Even now he's building your hopes. You'll be angry and crushed by next summer when nothing happens for the next 12 months. Then you'll be ready to sell out. And I believe management will be right there to take those shares off your hands at 60 cents on the dollar.
Born - give me some credit. I have an explanation for the situation this company and stock find themselves in. The rest of the shareholders continue to call Sam and hear that 'we're fixing the problems'.
Well let me tell you. If they are fixing anything, they are doing a truly amateurish job of it. This stock has been undervalued for years. It is now and will be for years to come.
Either Sam and company are incompetent or there is a plan. I believe Sam is not stupid. The average reader on this board, if he has a clue why he owns this stock, can think whatever he wants. I believe management has a reason for its poor showing.
If you think I'm wrong, call your buddy in NY and find out why they make so little effort to engage shareholders. Find out why they bury financials on Friday afternoons. Find out why we've never had a quarterly conference call. And learn to tell the difference between 'we can't' and 'we just don't want to'. Then ask why.
That is correct. I do buy on every dip. I didn't forget it. It's simply not relevant to the fact that this company has been poorly promoted.
I have been buying this stock since it was a fraction of what it is today. It was selling for 60 cents on the dollar then and it's selling for 60 cents on the dollar now. This stock is worth almost twice the price. And two years from now it will be 70 cents a share and still valued at 60 cents on the dollar. The issue is not the fact that the stock doesn't increase in price. It is that the stock could be selling for so much more if management cared about it.
Got a few more.
9. Lack of Press Releases. This is a company with now three divisions. Yet we hear from the company typically once a quarter when they release their financials. A company looking to juice its trading and appeal would find a way to be more communicative. Examples might include monthly updates, a corporate blog, a call in opportunity following each quarterly release, etc.
10. Opaque business plan. If anyone truly understands what this Haley acquisition does and how it fits in with the current business, I'd love to hear an explanation. An annual report with a letter from the CEO might give us some clues as to what to expect and some logic as to the company's strategy, but so far, I have not seen one.
After all this, there is the possibility that we simply have a management team that inherited a public company much to their dislike. I find it odd that a tiny company would not find a way to get shareholders excited about their investment, especially one that is totally illiquid from a shareholder point of view. But this seems to be the case.
Again, we are left with two alternatives. Either this is by design, or we have management that is simply clueless about running a small public company. Take your choice. I believe Sam and company are not fools. This is by design, IMO. And the only rational conclusion I can draw is that they are preparing the company to go private through a management led leveraged buy out. If someone has a third possibility, I'm happy to consider it.
Done know what that last post submitted before I was finished, but lets continue
2. Low trading volume. Fed up investors with no exit will sell easier.
3. Failed IR events. Easy to explain to shareholders that we tried to generate interest in XYZ as a public company but it failed. So we are going private.
4. Capital structure that is intractable. Can't blame current management too much for this one. They inherited a mess. The problem is that all that convertible debt makes the company unattractive to any and everyone. Like it or not, they are management's partners. They only way to convert that debt to equity is through a buyout or merger. If a merger isn't happening (the company is just too small to interest almost anyone) then buyout it is.
5. Management has had years to line up financing. And they probably have another 18-24 months if they want it. Nothing much is going to happen to the company. They can line up their financing and take their time. They are under no time pressure.
6. The company is tightly held. After the convertible debt owners are accounted for, the management plus the convertible debt holders own what, 80%, of the company? They can save $200K-$300K per year just going private. Maybe more. Why not put that in the shareholders pockets.
7. Management can effectively control the company through an operating agreement. They don't need to personally own the company. They receive the benefits of ownership without need for personally putting up large amounts of cash or credit. No effective Board of Directors. No public scrutiny. What's not to like from their perspective.
8. Stock buy backs. They company announced a stock buy back a few years ago. It never got off the ground. Why is it that the company has never tried another means to buy back stock? I suspect it has been to preserve cash that they will need to help finance the buyout.
Now there are a few downsides to going public, but as long as the stock remains low priced and not traded, they are minimal. The stock is relatively worthless as an acquisition tool. That is the primary benefit of being a public company from management's point of view.
Think about what you would want if you were planning to take a company private.
1. Low market valuation relative to the 'fair market value' of the company. You want to be able to buy the company without paying a premium.
2.
There are two possibilities:
- Management is setting the company up to go private. Protestations to the contrary, I believe this is the end game strategy. All signs point to this. If I were running the business and I intended to go private with it, I would do exactly what appears to be happening.
- Management is truly clueless. They have hired some of the most incompetent IR /PR people on planet earth and they are too clueless to recognize it. Personally, I'm not buying this option. Management may not be brilliant at all things, but they have shown enough competence to turn things around. One can assume that they are not idiots and therefore this option is invalid.
They have a communicator. They brought in this powerhouse IR firm just a few months ago. I can't remember if it was before or after the last time this stock traded, but it was just a few months ago.
Let's not be critical. Sometimes it takes these firms a few years to feel comfortable before they begin showing results. Looking forward to a great 2016!!
Right you are, Dickmo. This stock now trades twice a month instead of once a month since the new PR guys started. Give them a raise!
New IR team is really hitting the mark.
Curious to see if we get another PR between now and Aug 15 when the next Q is due. Somehow, I doubt it. Looking to buy some cheapies as others throw in the towel in frustration.
Correctomundo. The target audience for this stock hasn't got a clue about how to value convertible debt or changes in accounting treatments. All they know is that for a tiny company, this is grotesquely complex with convertibles, warrants, incentive payments, etc. Too hard to evaluate for a penny stock buyer.
Clearly missed the accounting change. I was wrong there. So no more non-cash adjustments.
However, the story remains pretty much unchanged. Sam can't force conversion. The bond holders have absolutely no reason to convert. So they pick up their dividend, share counts explode, and micro cap investors do not what what to make of all this. So they don't invest.
It's still dead money until Sam can force conversion. It would appear that he has to have a change of control to make that possible.
Let's look at last quarter's income statement. $372K in operating income. That's about right. $1.4 million/year in EBITDA. It's nothing to write home about on $20+ million in sales, but when you only have 16 million fully diluted shares outstanding. it's about 8 cents per share. Stick a 7 to 10 multiple on it and it's worth maybe 60 cents a share.
The problem in Q1 was the debt. $343K in interest expense. Virtually wiped out the earnings. Net is almost zero. Stick any multiple you want on that one. Nothing times something is nothing.
Now look at last years Q1. The Loss for change in fair value of conversion option liability cost $378K. That's more than this years operating income.
Between the interest expense and the adjustments due to price fluctuations, earnings are unpredictable and highly variable. Certainly, this is beyond the capabilities of most micro cap investors. This stock goes nowhere until all this convertible nonsense is cleaned out. Force them to convert and let's move on. If it means we have 20 million shares outstanding, so be it. At least we get some predictability and any growth the company earns will be highly visible. The company can always buy back shares.
Which reminds me, what ever happened to Sam's share buy back? Heard a line of nonsense about how the company can't buy because it trades so infrequently. Do a Dutch auction off the exchange and just get it done. Sam's supposed to be a finance genius. Let's see some of it.
If that is true, this stock is dead. The valuation on the conversion features and the interest will wipe out operating profits for years to come, just like last quarter.
These notes are certain death for this company to move forward. Force the conversion and let's move forward. These people have their money parked, racking up huge interest costs, while making it that much harder to move the stock up. Totally unacceptable.
Optimism and wishful thinking have no place in successful investing. Track records, well crafted plans and great execution are all that matter. Let me know when you see great execution here. As a shareholder, it looks like a lot more of the same still to come.
Sell at .50. Buy at .30-.35. Repeat a nickel or a dime higher each cycle. It doesn't build a mansion in the Hamptons but it helps to pay some bills.
I note a deleted comment in the recent mix. I assume it is the one Seeds sent. While critical, it was neither nasty nor obscene. While I obviously do not agree with Seeds, I saw nothing wrong with his post. Someone here has a lot thinner skin than is warranted.
Has IVFH made some progress. Absolutely. Prior management left this company a smoldering POS. Has Sam made things better. No doubt. Has marketing greatly improved? Not that I can tell. Has the company competently exploited its product lines in the emerging molecular cooking field? No. Has Sam yet mastered some of the IR aspects of running a public company? Not that I can see.
A bit of realism here. IVFH is a major company only when compared to companies located in rural prefectures of third world countries. The company is tiny with virtually zero visibility. This is not a criticism of anything management is doing. It is a fact based on its size. Billion dollar companies go virtually unnoticed by the public and professional investors. Companies doing <$20 million appear as rounding errors.
Like all companies, IVFH has a value. The difference of opinion is over what that value is. IVFH loses big points for A) being tiny, b) being fully dependent on US Foods (but Bluto, the dependence has come down from 96% to 70%. Doesn't that count? Ans. No. If they lost that contract they go under in 10 minutes. 70% is better, but not good enough) c) on the BB d) no IR/PR obvious and e) with the exception of earnings announcement week, it doesn't trade. Let's try to keep things in perspective, mates. Improvement is evident, however, $1/share isn't around the corner.
The board's sentiment means nothing to me, nothing to the price of this stock, and from the response from Sam, nothing to him either. The board has been calling for $1 /share for three years. They have been wrong for three years. The opinion of the uninformed, especially the massive group of 25 IVFH shareholders that post from time to time, means nothing to anyone.
I am truly surprised that you actually think that there is a single human being looking at this stock in a single brokerage firm on this planet. I'll throw in our two closest neighboring planets also. No Martians are looking at this penny stock either.
The fact that I choose not to share my analysis with you does not mean that I have not done my homework or that my analysis is not accurate. Frankly, I see no reason to inform the likes of you, mate, as to the true value of this company. I will sell it at 49 cents tomorrow and buy it back in 3-6 weeks at 25% less. It will get back to 50 cents again, and again I will sell it.
BTW, I will give you a hint at what you should be looking at. Note how the share counts are starting to explode. Never a good sign. Note how much Sam earns compared to a CEO of a comparably size company. Also not a good sign. Back into the original IVFH's annual growth rate. Not a good sign.
Now go check those computer models and see if any of them noticed what is really going on.
"Those projections do mirror many others." Quite amusing. Like there are many others following penny stocks. Sheer nonsense. If you think I started investing yesterday, mate, I'm afraid you are a off by a decade or three.
Any projection you see is made by the same program making the same regression computations. I assure you that there are zero humans wasting even a tiny fraction of their insignificant lives looking at this penny stock in any brokerage firm on this planet.
Shares are listed. You can have them tomorrow at 49 cents. Shame you think Vanguard actually has a human being looking at a stock that does less in sales than their corporate cafeteria. It's a computer making a forecast based on a series of regressions.
Cheerio Mate. I'll be back at 35 cents. Buy them tomorrow and we can continue this discussion when the stock drops and I return.
Yup, I have been whining. And I have been deadly accurate all along. I know this business and can properly understand how the various pieces fit when provided enough information to know what is going on. When I do not get that information, I get concerned that others may not understand the things I do.
As for my stock. I have 10,000 shares and you can have them tomorrow for 49 cents a share. I'll be happy to put them up for sale tomorrow morning. You can bid on all of them. I'll be happy to buy them back at a more reasonable price.
So you question my concern over business strategy yet you readily admit that you do not understand what assets we acquired and how they will work to IVFH's benefit?
Glad you enjoyed the diversification. I can go out and buy two stocks instead of one. That will diversify my portfolio also. If I want diversification, there are much simpler ways to buy this.
What I want to see is a coherent strategy that is well explained to the owners of this company. I don't think I'm asking too much. I seem to get that from just about every other company I have shares in. And while we're at it, this stupidity of announcing earnings reports on Friday afternoons or the night that holiday's begin makes me question what you find so brilliant about management.
Goinlong and Stocknseeds, I appreciate your response but it is clear from your responses that neither of you know just what we bought. I too am in the food business. I haven't got a clue what Sam purchased. I have no idea why Haley would sell it or why IVFH would want it.
This just isn't how one runs a company when shareholders have any importance to management.
BTW, I read the quarterly report. I have my opinion. What did everyone see to make them all so happy? I must have missed it. I think the market did also. Another collective yawn. But if one insists on releasing earnings on Friday after 4 PM, one will get that kind of reaction.
Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the Haley Group assets that were acquired and the implications for IVFH's business going forward? I read the press release. I understood almost none of it.
What did they buy? How much did they pay for it? How does it fit with IVFH's existing business?
Back into hibernation until the financial report comes out May 15th? Truly sad. We had one poor day of trading, followed by one day of almost no trading. Way to bury a year end statement, Sam.
Let's keep our fingers crossed that the Q1 filing, due out in 45 days, shows some earnings progress. This company should do better than it has done in Q4.
Let's not get carried away thinking the incubator was anything more than a rough idea. There is a reason that it was announced about six months ago and has not been heard of since. I'm guessing it died peacefully in its sleep just weeks after it was announced. It was a farce then and its a farce now. Management has enough troubles running their own business. Profit margins are low. They report at the last possible moment. IR is an absolute joke. Let's get their house in order first.
As for the concept that institutional investors might have an interest in this, highly unlikely. The company only does $18 million per year, call it $24 million on an annualized basis after the merger. It's just too small. Wrong exchange. They need to upgrade to the Small Cap NASDAQ. No float. (Sam: you need more shares out there. Declare a 5% stock dividend for the next three years and let's get some float out there.) No trades. Sorry, this is not what institutional investors are looking for. This is a retail and angel investor stock.
Spend 3 minutes and go look at the 2012 income statement in the latest filing. Operating earnings is the number you want to use. Obviously, everything beyond operating earnings is non-operating earnings. That's where the financial engineering, adjustments and funny money accounts are.
We show $586K in operating earnings on 18.6 million in sales. So EBITDA is 3% of sales. Of course, if you want to get picky, the $1 million plus in interest expense puts us in the red, but that's below the EBITDA line. The other adjustments and financial engineering brought the total to $2 mil. positive.
Sam did some magic in late December so debt will be substantially less going forward. That will help a lot.
My biggest concern is that I understood that Q4 was traditionally our best quarter. The company only earned $150K in EBITDA in Q4. We made considerably more in Q3. Q3 led me to believe that we were good for $1 mil or more in EBITDA. Q4 says differently.