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I don't know who writes IDCC's press releases or SEC filings, but they wouldn't get any awards in my book:
"(i) the ICC has extended the date for rendering a Final Award until August 31, 2005; and, (ii) it is estimated that a Final Award will be transmitted to the parties by June 30, 2005."
I don't know if Marstein's friend saw the actual filing where the word "Final" appears for both dates, but I also believe he has it right.
Jim. Update from Marstein, whose neighbor has handled cases with the ICC:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: Marstein. If you're out there, pleas
by: marsteinf 06/10/05 12:07 pm
Msg: 228137 of 228140
Just spoke with him and he states that by the 6/30 date both parties should know the preliminary award amount, if they decided a monetary amount is due or they feel none is due.
He cautions the final award dated 6/30 could be delayed slightly. The final date of 8/31 gives the icc time to have everything looked over, but more importantly gives the 2 parties extra time to negotiate a win/win settlement,
if the icc feels neither party is trying to settle, that final date of 8/31 could be announced as final, and it becomes official with the ICC.
Its up to the individual parties to decide if they notify their shareholders of the award on 6/30, if there is one, because its not official until the ICC says its official.
He feels both sides are talking, but settlement talks can break down very quickly and both sides have to continue the fights in court until an agreement is signed. Thats what lawyers do. They are paid to protect their clients interest no matter what.
This is his opinion only. He said be thankfull this is going through arbritration. If it was going through the courts, this could drag out for ever. There is finality with the arb process when done correctly, and he has no reason to believe the ICC would risk its reputation to allow either company to sway their decision.
Loop.
Ole' bulldog really got your goat with that one, eh?
I'm emailing Nurse Cratchet to take your blood pressure.
But I'm sure the judge has heard that old, old legal acorn:
"Never make a decision based on something you read on a message board".
LOL.
Sleep tight tonight, amigo. We're doing just fine.
Oh. Forgot. You sleep tight too, Bulldog. A gallon of Chianti ought to do it.
Jae.
Nice catch!
Ask Jim.
MTS.
One might guess that Jorma's boyz have been monitoring IDCC message boards for some time.
Or do you think they just lucked-out with #111722? LOL.
If they wanted to keep track of IDCC shareholders' temperature during the "War of the Lawyers", they came to the right place.
But if they think we've given up on IDCC, they've made a huge miscalculation, which may account for their resorting to Forbe's articles, and message board posts.
Loop. LOL.
Glad you posted your opinion.
I was afraid to ask, given my tender heart condition.
Seems like each time Nokia sends something to the court, they get further and further in left field.
That latest bullet came out of the end of the barrel like a glob of jello.
Mschere.
I found him at Motel 6. Length of stay: Indefinite.
Type of room: Heavy smoking Floor: First. Can only
break an arm or leg if he jumps.
BTW, what's the law about using an unsigned post from a message board, by someone who purportedly listened-in on a casual conversation with Hairy, but made no notes of the conversation?
Salner.
Read the post. It's quite obvious.
Mschere.
We just call Jorma a few names now and then.
You know what they say about sticks and stones. LOL.
Post #111722.
Amr.
WOW!
IHUB posts are now being sent to the Delaware Judge.
Loop.
I was told directly by the ICC in NY that drafts were not sent to the parties.
In fact, the gal I talked to was almost insulted by the question.
Jim.
A follow up from Marstein, whose neighbor has handled cases with the ICC:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: Marstein. Jimlur wants to know if y
by: marsteinf
Long-Term Sentiment: Hold 06/09/05 12:56 pm
Msg: 227974 of 227975
What he told me was that ICC drop dates to be missed entirely is very rare, he stated they run a very tight schedule, (regardless that they are french)and the dozen or so that he has worked on the ICC has not missed the drop dead date. He did state though that there have been times where the icc has extended the date for settlement talks or at request of same parties. His opinion is that for the icc to extend deadline 2 months, that either the award is very large and they want to make sure they have crossed all t's, because they pride themselves on the final deceisions not being appealed,or settlment talks are going on.
He stated the ICC always hopes and encourages both parties to settle before an award is announced and both sides have an idea towards the end of final ruling on how things stack up yo give both sides and extra push to possible settle on win/win terms for both parties.
He thinks negotiations might have started very recently since both sides have publicly state up until a few weeks ago that there were no settlement talks.
He feels if nokia had the upper hand they would scream it to the world and feels IDCC is playing it very safe as to not show up nokia like last time..
again these are all his opinions and he has advised everyone to do there own DD...hope this helps, its still frustrating as heck...
Amr.
All excellent questions, but no answers. Just rats that smell like Nokia, all over the place.
However, you might recall that Bill Merritt said, "we have not seen a DRAFT, etc".
We were all lead to believe that drafts were verboten, but they will now have one! (A hot enough potato for the ICC to break the rules?).
Once they get the amount of the award, they can negotiate or throw up their hands.
Also, an amount certain would enable Nokia to decide whether to ask for a correction in the numbers, or challenge the panel members for cause?
Jim. I'll give it a shot.
So. . . . Do you believe IDCC will immediately announce the results of an award, if they get the first salvo from the ICC on or before June 30?
I'd hate to think Nokia might follow-up such an annoucement with a challenge, between July and August.
Today, we're getting knocked-down. For once, I'd like to get knocked-up and stay there.
Interesting comment from Marstein/Yahoo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: So. . . . . First, the UK suit gets
by: marsteinf 06/09/05 09:50 am
Msg: 227924 of 227945
so true...even with merritt as the top guy us shareholders are still left in the dark, has anything really changed as ceo other than the names,
my neighbor who is an abr lawyer and has worked with the icc many times has stated for them to extend rarely happens, and feels something significant must be going on between idcc and nok
IQ.
Let's hope Nokia's chief patent attorney just spilled his coffee.
A few days ago, Janet told me that the award was a stand-alone issue.
If, as a result of the award, they were then in the midst of settlement talks with Nokia about 3G or whatever, that would not be announced.
There was no conference scheduled on IDCC's website.
Art.
I'll have to watch it over the weekend.
It's always popping up on Comcast.
Then I'll be in good shape for next week's news.
Mschere.
Right on!
I'd be calling the NY Office every 15 minutes.
Malko.
For crying out loud, what are you hearing?
Bobbie.
If you were any kind of a guy, you'd wander over to KOP, tell them you're a hot-shot wireless engineer, and ask for a job application, and survey the landscape.
Doesn't matter how we get the news. Just get it, man!
Ams.
The reason I asked is, the panel members must "sign" the award before it is presented.
They might have done that over the weekend, or by FAX with original signing later.
When the ICC says the 31st or before, they obviously know what has to be done.
Ams.
I presume she didn't say whether it was DHL'd before today.
The plenary session meets on Friday, as you know.
Sale.
Only 9 MM's are open.
BA 17.10--19.90. No trades yet.
L2V.
Life was simple when Janet said,
when we get notice of the award, it will be announced in very short order, regardles of whether we are in talks with Nokia, or words to that effect.
Looks like we've got ourselves convinced that,
1. IDCC will win an award.
2. Nokia will want to correct the math, and insert a few commas.
3. Being Finnish, Nokia will then want an interpretation of the language, because their lawyers are primarily American.
4. After this 90 days expires, Nokia will launch a challenge of the panel members, or the applicable law.
So, when is an award not an award?
When it is first announced!
Now tell me, how do I 'splain this to the Queen Bee?
Thank for taking your time to keep me straight.
Ronnie.
That's what I thought.
i.e., Absent some unilateral agreement with Nokia, a separate trigger is required for 3G.
And if Ericy won't sign-up for 3G at the moment, and no other major competitor signs, looks like we have a Mexican standoff.
Maybe a 2G win for IDCC would break that logjam.
I believe O'Dog posted an article about damages aome time ago.
It seems the Supreme Court believes otherwise.
If I recall correctly, damages could be assessed, provided the state in which the arbitration occurred, allows for damages.
L2V/Ronnie.
I'm glad you've got it. However, I'm still in the dark.
Ronnie says he was informed that Phase II is the kickoff for both 2G and 3G?
But Nokia is playing a different tune. ("The arbitration is not about 3G").
Did the PR department mean to say that once Phase II "officially begins", royalties will be due on both?
If so, we may still need that elusive second trigger for 3G, or Nokis's agreement to a rate, assuming the panel rules in IDCC's favor on 2G.
At least we don't have to start from scratch on a 3G rate agreement.
Is this how you see it?
If IDCC wins the arbitration, the French just dealt a blow to Jorma's euro advantage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
LONDON (AFX) - The euro fell sharply as traders in the US came into the market to sell the currency in the wake of the French rejection of the draft EU constitution yesterday.
Over the past hour, the euro slipped under the key 1.25 usd level to a low of 1.2469 usd before steadying at 1.2483 usd around noon GMT.
"There are a few more US traders than you would normally expect. They seem to be simply executing orders to sell if the French vote proved to be a 'no',"said Paul Bednarczyk at 4CAST.
In London too there is a bit more trading than is usual on a public holiday, he added.
Both the UK and the US are observing public holidays but thanks to electronic trading, orders can be put through.
The selling from the US may have also sparked off a response from elsewhere.
As things stand, there are a lot of sell orders bunched up at levels around 1.2470 usd. If the euro drops below 1.2460 usd or so, IT MAY THEN FALL A LOT FURTHER, Bednarczyk said.
Earlier, the euro was steady after a brief wobble in the first few hours of trading in the wake of the French referendum result. The euro touched a low of 1.2510 usd in Asia, only to find its way back up the mid 1.25 usd level --
pretty much where it was on Friday.
sivakumar.sithraputhran@afxnews.com
ss/ra/ak
Nic.
Some in Paris may be prejudiced, but all of the individuals involved are not French.
I'd be more concerned if the panel members were French, or appointed by Paris, or if the arbitration was being held in Finland.
We have three highly qualified American panel members who have all signed statements of independence. The parties have not objected to the appointments, nor has the ICC.
And while the rules permit a review of the award by Paris, they do not permit Paris to change the decision. (Sans fraud, proven bias, etc).
In fact, if I were one of Jorma's boyz, I'd be saying,
"Those damn Americans never liked Finland, they continually joke about the French, the Administration places a high value on American IPR, and Howard has always warned us about the perils of allowing foreign disputes to be resolved in the U.S."
3G.
We're all positive, except for one thing.
NOK wants to win, just as much as we do.
As long as it's trivia time, I read earlier in the ICC website that they have 50 staff attorneys. These are broken down into 7 teams, with 7 members each.
Each case is assigned to a team, which follows the proceedings from beginning to end.
The plenary sessions have 6 members, and it would appear that they review comments from the "Team", in addition to blessing the panel's decision. (I'm assuming this would not be a Court Committee approval).
One thing's for sure. There may only three panel members. But there are many more eyes in Paris watching every move they make.
O'Dog.
Yet another little wrinkle.
The panel signs, then notifies Paris, and Paris notifies the parties.
I presume Paris doesn't say a word until they have a signed copy or facsimile in their hands.
Ddutta.
Just to lighten your evening, Nokia has Euro 358 million on reserve.
When they published this in their 20-F, they used a dollar exchange rate of 1.35.
Multiply Euro 358 by 1.35 and you get $483 million in reserve.
Dan.
For once, I'm seeing the same thing on Waterhouse.
900 @ 18.10.
18,000 @ 18.32.