is leveraging all of Canada's mining industry, lol!
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September 2009 Perkins Coie Billing.
Page 64, at the bottom of the list:
09/30/09 S. Landefeld 0.70 525.00 Review accelerated share repurchase issue
Volume and PPS action says this? So Wall street has people in the Judge's chambers looking over her shoulders as she writes, Blackberry's in hand just waiting to pounce and release the news to the MM's?
I just love all the declarative statements from experts today who just KNOW FOR A FACT WHAT WILL DEFINITELY HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
The judge has already stated very plainly, that she,and only she, has the final decision as to what assets belong to the estate, period.
The 4 billion is a deposit, and just like any other deposit, it belongs to whoever deposited it. Which in this case, happens to be WMI. The FDIC, is NOT a higher authority than a federal judge, a fact that is going to cost them dearly for their transgressions.
Did Moody's get paid to downgrade Wamu?
A follow-up to the news story I posted yesterday, note the parts I have highlighted. Again, if Moody's was a part of the colluding (illegal) effort to take down Wamu, then that would open them up to liability for damages, and be further proof of JPM/FDIC's guilt.
It's important to remember, that while a simple assessment of assets/liabilities definitely has some validity here, the potential for a huge settlement/payoff, is to be found in the potential damages due to WMI and it's shareholders stemming from the illegal and unethical actions of JPM, the FDIC, and now perhaps Moody's.
And with a 722 million verdict already against JPM, and the recent verdict of 300 million to a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL in a suit vs. big tobacco, it seems plain, that judges and juries, intend to make some defining statements with regard to corporate responsibility.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Analysts question SEC as credit agencies' policeman
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5AJ3UM20091120?sp=true
By John Parry - Analysis
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Credit rating agencies' blunders in the global credit crisis highlight the need for more effective regulation, but the Securities and Exchange Commission may not prove an effective policeman, market analysts say.
Investors have blamed rating agencies, Moody's Corp (MCO.N), Standard & Poor's (MHP.N) and Fitch Ratings (LBCP.PA), as well as regulators, for the role they played in the global financial crisis. The top ratings that agencies assigned to toxic securities contributed to the severity of the market meltdown and the Obama administration wants to give the SEC more power to rein them in.
Many analysts believe the ratings model the big three agencies use is inherently flawed and susceptible to conflicts of interest because the issuer pays them to rate their products.
Key lawmakers agree that the SEC should write and enforce rules for the credit rating agencies and have proposed setting up an office within the SEC to do just that.
But experts are not convinced the SEC is up to the task, not least because of its catastrophic failure to spot Bernard Madoff's $65 billion Ponzi scheme despite red flags and complaints.
"You want to convince me that the agency which allowed Madoff to run a giant Ponzi scheme could improve on what the credit agencies do?" said Zvi Bodie, a finance professor at Boston University's School of Management.
The SEC had no comment.
Some analysts argue that the commission also did not make sufficiently transparent to investors the excessive risk-taking at some now-defunct investment banks, whose demise brought the global financial system to the verge of collapse.
"Non-banks were generally regulated by the SEC, so one might argue that even things like investment banking problems at Bear Stearns, Lehman and insurance companies might have fallen closer to the SEC umbrella than the Fed's umbrella," said Ray Stone, economist with Stone & McCarthy Research Associates, in Princeton, New Jersey.
Others say the SEC's existing resources are overstretched and that it is underfunded and understaffed for a regulator of such broad scope.
Bodie and other academics argue that the SEC's chief weakness as a regulator of securities is that the commission is heavily staffed with lawyers and lacks financial expertise.
To supervise credit rating agencies effectively, the regulator first would have to hire new people from banks and the agencies themselves who understand how to assess securities, analysts say. That task will take time.
"The SEC would have to get some knowledgeable people in there who used to work at the rating agencies. You would have to create a whole new bureaucracy to do this," said Richard Sylla, economics and financial institutions professor with New York University's Stern School of Business.
To be sure, policing the rating agencies is no easy task.
A former Moody's analyst said in September that the company knowingly assigned incorrect ratings to a security as recently as this year.
In late September, a now suspended managing director at Moody's testified that the agency's senior managers still favor revenue over ratings.
Moody's stated that it "takes seriously all allegations of potential impropriety."
The SEC formally gained oversight of the big three credit rating agencies through a 2007 law designed to increase competition in the industry.
The new authority came too late for the SEC to prevent the formation of a speculative bubble in obscure financial instruments such as Collateralized Debt Obligations. Top AAA ratings from the agencies helped to inflate the bubble, which popped when investors realized the securities were toxic.
Some analysts say the SEC made other missteps ahead of the global financial crisis in areas that were arguably within its domain. For example, the SEC was responsible for ensuring clearer disclosure for investors in the financial statements of investment banks, Stone said.
The SEC has adopted a flurry of rules to crack down on potential conflicts of interest and increase disclosure.
Congress is also scrambling for ways to ensure that rating agencies are more accountable for their grades. Bills in the House and Senate would give investors an easier way to sue the agencies if they knowingly and recklessly failed to investigate or obtain analysis from an independent source.
The regulator is also making a big push to hire experts with Wall Street experience and is beefing up its office of assessment. But not everyone thinks that by hiring people from the agencies, the SEC will improve its oversight in this area.
"If I hire all those analysts, I hire the people who missed the last time," said George Feiger, chief executive of Contango Capital Advisors in Berkeley, California.
Ohio Attorney General Sues Ratings Agencies.
About time they got around to this batch of scambags too. Moody's dump on Wamu hurt them BAD, and with this, it looks like they are suspected of taking payments to do such things...wonder who, and how much money changed hands over Wamu? If Moody's was found to be colluding with those who were out to destroy Wamu, then they would also be liable for billions in damages. The evidence just keeps building in this case, we could wind up with a system/paradigm changing event here, AND a legendary settlement when all is said and done. JMHO of course.
Perhaps this article needs to be forwarded to our lawyers?
Tick-Tock.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704888404574547592472039198.html
By NATHAN BECKER
Ohio Attorney General Richard Cordray has filed suit against ratings agencies Standard Poor's Ratings Services, Moody's Investors Service and Fitch Ratings, alleging they provided misleading ratings in exchange for money.
The suit, filed in U.S. District Court on behalf of five Ohio public employee retirement and pension funds, charges the agencies with "wreaking havoc on U.S. financial markets by providing unjustified and inflated ratings of mortgage-backed securities in exchange for lucrative fees from securities issuers."
The funds lost an estimated more than $457 million because of the investments, Mr. Cordray said. The agencies gave many of the investments the highest-possible investment-grade credit ratings, normally given to the safest corporate bonds in part because of fees they got from the securities issuers, he said.
"The rating agencies assured our employee pension funds that many of these mortgage-backed securities had the highest credit ratings and the lowest risk," Mr. Cordray said. "But they sold their professional objectivity and integrity to the highest bidder."
It's not the first time ratings agencies have been sued with relation to the economic crisis. New York state Attorney General Andrew Cuomo reached an agreement as part of a settlement with firms last year to overhaul the way they collect fees.
Agencies in the past have argued against suits, saying their opinions are protected by free speech.
We'll take it all! So add up how much has gone into the bonds, how much into the commons, and how much into the preferreds, and how much does that add up to? A lot huh?
Thanks for starting this topic, the news about the bonds is awesome, very much a confidence builder, i'm just kind of surprised that you would be talking about all the BIG MONEY that's pouring into Wamu, but hey, we all figure it out in the end, that's all that matters.
Tick-Tock.
Real money(as opposed to the fake kind)pouring into WMI bonds, means Real Money believes Wamu is going to WIN!
A position I happen to agree with, the snowball effect has started, the headlines are all negative for JPM, the Inspector General is about to re-open the Wamu case and take a long hard look at the OTS and the FDIC, JPM gets yet ANOTHER lawsuit, a class-action from HELOC borrowers, how many does that make now? Can a RICO investigation be far behind?
Thanks for the bond info, i'm adding on the cheap here today, using some of my REAL MONEY!
Tick-Tock.
In any case, anyone who buys up more than 5% of any class of any security, has to file a 13D or G with the SEC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schedule_13d
Moderators, are you going to do something about this personal attack upon me?
Or do I need to complain to Matt?
I think perhaps there is some negative bias going on with the moderation here.
Simple. O/S is just a little too large. Price is a subjective thing, and what's best for the stock, might not always be what's best for the shareholder. But at this juncture, reducing the O/S to a couple 100 million, would bring the price way up, the supply way down, and would goose the trading totals with respect to dollar amount.
I'm assuming a return to communication would accompany such, which would also be beneficial, crush the life right outta the NSS'ers who have camped out here, big $$$$$$$!!!!
GOOOOO CETEK!
BIG money already loaded up on WAMUQ, anyone who can read a chart and do basic DD knows this. That's why trading volume is only a few million a day on a stock with a 1.7 billion OS. Big money has their position already filled, retail has theirs and is holding tight for the most part. Volume is gone on the preferreds. The bonds are the only thing left.
Why did this stock shoot up to over .40 on no real news?
K.I.S.S principle is in effect here for the answer:
Lack of supply. Because the longs were not selling, the "BIG" money was not selling. It was the same stock selling and being re-sold by daytraders.
Watch what happens when the 4 billion is ruled on, the reaction will be out of all proportion to the actual monetary value of the decision, and you won't get back in WAMUQ cheap.
tick-tock
I thought this board was about WAMUQ.PK? Why would I care about anyone buying bonds? It has zero pertinence to the potential price appreciation of WAMUQ.
tick-tock.
Why would you hold through an R/S Penny? They usually come with plenty of warning.
At a ridiculously high AS of 9-10 billion shares, yes, an R/S would be extremely beneficial for this stock.
Or if the CEO sells the company, maybe the new owner will be smart, and change the ticker. That would be the mother of the mother of all MOASS'es, as the billions in NSS here are forced to scramble to buy shares.
I'm going to call him and suggest that again, and that he do a reverse split after that. I bet he'll even chuckle at the thought of the worms squirming, maybe he can be talked into it.
Reverse split would be the best thing for this stock after that.
Excellent! So you finally admit that the bankruptcy court has ABSOLUTE jurisdiction over the funds in question? Took you long enough, I was pretty convinced after a couple of federal judges said it was so, but if Reuters works for you, hey, who am I to tell you to question the media?
Not at all, I am aware of all "claims" (yours included). But claims make no difference at all as to whether the 4 billion will be turned over to Wamu. It WILL be turned over just as soon as the Judge says to do so, that's the law, and it will NOT go anywhere after that, without the judge's further approval. Everyone knows this is true. Call a lawyer and ask, as I did.
Your argument has no merit whatsoever, but it's amusing to watch.
Wrong again Johnny.
"WMI will NEVER get their hands on that $4 billion as there are too many valid claims against the estate that will outweigh the value of the deposit (if Walrath ever rules that it indeed rules that the money belongs to WMI) which will prevent the actual turnover of the money. You will find this out sooner than later. In addition, the DC court has jurisdiction over certain items, not just valuation of the bank's assets, and you will find this out sooner than later as well."
WMI WILL get their hands on that money, again, you forget (or neglect to mention) that WMI is in bankruptcy court, and again it seems I need to remind you, that it is chapter 11, re-organization, not chapter 7 liquidation.
Creditors have NO power to touch any monies returned to WMI while WMI is still in the bankruptcy process, WMI will submit a plan for re-organization, which will likely include plans to eventually pay off those creditors.
Do you understand how bankruptcy works?
"Chapter 11 allows a debtor to enter into an agreement with creditors under which all or a part of the business continues. The debts of the business are restructured so as to allow the debtor to continue his business operation."
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/businessmanagement/DF7296.html
But Penny, you have mentioned another R/S at least 100 times by my count, I assumed that meant that you KNEW FOR SURE that it would happen, so now you are telling me it's NOT going to happen?
And where's that RegD? Or is that a falsehood as well? No dilution either?
Well, it's November, and I still don't see the RegDex the "veterans and warriors of CTKH" promised me a couple months ago.
No reverse split either, dang it.
But I sold because you guys said it would happen?
I may have to buy some more now.
Look at the picture at the bottom of this post.
damages happen.
I agree Diamond, assuming for the moment that things do go Wamu's way, it seems silly to even think of share swaps or any other disposition of assets, sometimes it pays to think simple, and think large, as in the BIG picture.
Okay, i'm WMI, i've gotten my settlement from JPM and the FDIC, with part of the proceeds, i've paid off any debt I was responsible for. I now have:
1. Billions in cash
2. No debt
3. Clean balance sheet
4. Ticker and Tick-et back to the big show
5. Experience in investment banking
6. An economic situation where there are still LOTS of banks and businesses for sale, most at pennies on the dollar, and real estate too.
So what do I do? Do I give all that money to the shareholders, say "show's over folks, turn out the lights, walk away, and apply for unemployment?
Or do we saddle up and build a new empire?
Are we Ameri-cans or Ameri-can'ts? lol!
Cue the rock and roll up and let's do this thing!
Just sayin'...(<<<<southern for JMHO)
TPG buys a lot of stuff. I believe the other poster is referring to Corus, TPG and Starwood bought a big chunk of what was left recently.
Bonderman is basically the southern Henry Kravis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPG_Capital
There is also no proof to suggest Weil or anyone else is considering canceling them either. To comment either way, is not much different than musing on whether the sun will explode tomorrow, in truth, it's a 50/50 chance, but the smart money is betting it rises just like it has every day that any of us has been alive.
The document you are referencing, the Sept. MOR, is also at the SEC, but somewhat abridged and in HTML instead of PDF, just seems a little easier to get through. And I agree with you, everyone should read it thoroughly, the section regarding cash and cash equivalents owned by WMI in a Chase account is especially juicy!
Looks to me like JPM is holding over 4 billion of WMI's cash, and THAT amount, has gone up in the last year!
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000090951809000754/mm10-3009_8ke991sep.htm
Re: NEWS, I believe, since he mentioned specifically New Jersey and Virginia, that Mr. Josh was speaking of the recent election results, and not anything Wamu-specific.
Nice synopsis Linda! I've been around about the same amount of time, and it's taken almost until now to read through the mountains of info with regard to this case. The more I read, the more I buy.
Check out :http://ghostofwamu.com if you haven't already, tons of great info, court filings, and a message board if you are so inclined.
Dragynn
Actually it's called "giving Jamie Dimon and JPM more rope, and the time to hang themselves with it".
And I must say, with a 722 million bribery settlement in Alabama, a new lawsuit out in california over a Ponzi scheme there, the highly publicized involvement with the multi-BILLION dollar theft by Bernard Madoff, all the other current suits against JPM, and of course our own multi-billion dollar suit...I must say it's working FRIGHTFULLY well, our lawyers have the spark of genius, and i'm willing to wait as long as it takes.
Because the longer it's dragged out, the bigger the payoff will be. So that's a positive! Besides, we've already seen how JPM will duck and run, throwing money at the problem so they don't have to accept blame, and can dodge jail another day. My fondest hope is that they WILL be stupid enough to take it to full trial, so these lying thieving cheats can ALL go to jail, but it will never happen, JPM will settle LONG before it comes to that.
They will settle without admitting blame, just like they did in Alabama, and when they do, the FDIC will do so as well, again, without admitting blame, though they might try to hang JPM out to dry for it so Sheila doesn't look like the bad guy.
You know this is how it will happen, anybody that isn't completely chewed up with naivete`, knows this is how it works in a merchant-run society, we might not get real justice, but we WILL get paid to shut up and go away.
Wamu will emerge, with billions in cash, and now a clean balance sheet and no debt. Where they go from there, I look forward to seeing.
Linda, the statement does not say common shares have been canceled. They have not. "wiped out" is the term they use, which many may erroneously take to mean "canceled".
"Wiped out" is what has already occurred here at Wamu, a severe devaluation. The re-structuring of CIT actually calls for more new stock to be issued to unsecured debtholders. CITGQ.PK
Nobody is canceling any stock here, or even considering it.
Well it's a bankruptcy as you said Linda, that doesn't necessarily mean liquidation, Wamu could emerge from this re-organized, capitalized, and ready to do business again, there would be no need, or point, to paying or buying out shareholders. Your gain would come from an increase in valuation of the common shares you hold.
Wamu is NOT in chapter 7, they filed chapter 11, which is a protective filing, NOT a liquidation filing.
As to why CIT would screw their shareholders like that, you'll have to ask them, somebody needs to.
Linda, the simplest answer might come from the MOR's, not that it's completely telling, as they are STILL having to do some guesswork, as the FDIC seized documents that were necessary to do a proper accounting and gave them to JPM who refuses to release them (something to hide?).
Here is the link to the latest MOR, in a simple HTML doc at the SEC, so it's not as difficult as the PDF to deal with.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000090951809000754/mm10-3009_8ke991sep.htm
Hope this helps! To me it seems pretty clear, just the 4 billion alone puts the balance sheet green.
I believe WMI will get back their capital contributions. And I further believe WMI will get back the 4 billion in cash. And I also expect to recover significant damages as well.
And even better, with the publicity storm that has only just begun, I expect that the SEC will dig even further into JPM's skeleton closet, and that there are likely MUCH more in the way of incriminating evidence. I think JPM's amassing of cash these last few months, shows that they believe as I do.
And best of all, I believe this landmark case, when it is all said and done, will prove to be the tipping point, that forces some badly needed changes in our financial and regulatory systems.
History will look back at Jamie Dimon and JPM, as being the defining level of outright hubris and open theft, that finally brought about serious change in America.
The claim says right on the first page, that "Washington Mutual Bank, now in liquidation, is justly indebted to Washington Mutual Inc."
A debt is a debt. Again i'm going to have to stick to legal documents, judges, and the law for my trusted sources of factual information with regards to this case.
WMI extended TENS OF BILLIONS to WMB in the months leading up to the seizure, the initial claim filed by WMI lists a minimum of 6.8 billion:http://www.ghostofwamu.com/documents/FDIC/08-12-30_WMI_Proof_Of_Claim_FDIC.pdf
That's a tiny amount to you?
Which shares are those? Can you provide a ticker symbol? And since JPM has already stated that they have made several BILLION dollars in profit from the "failed" bank, I would say that it's not "worthless".
You spoke of both the bank, and WMI in your post, you stated that creditors of the bank would come first, so WMI wouldn't get paid until the creditors do, but if the entities are not the same, then how does WMI have to wait in line behind the bank?
WMI IS one of the creditors of the bank, the bank owes WMI BIG-TIME, so again, your statement implies WMI will be one of the FIRST in line to get paid. And I agree with that statement.
Wrong again. The shares are currently being traded at just under 13 cents a share. Calling them worthless is a complete fabrication.
And the repetitious mantra about the creditors coming first is something everyone knows already, it doesn't make a difference, there will be PLENTY of money for everyone.
There is a reason why JPM has been hoarding cash, we saw part of that reason displayed two days ago in letters 3 feet high. And today another lawsuit against JPM filed out in CA.
And just so you know, the "bank" is owned by JP Morgan currently, so any "creditors of the bank", will need to seek their compensation from JPM. Me personally, I own shares in WMI, not the bank.
The Judge can rule at any time. Nothing stands in her way now, Judge Collyer cleared the way, and affirmed that Judge Walrath has the jurisdiction. THJMW has had a year to consider this, and all the evidence in the world, a trial would be redundant in light of the fact that it wouldn't be a jury trial, it would just be the same arguments, from the same people, decided by the same judge.
It's a simple psychological ploy to make a declarative statement, a tactic to convince someone that your position is fact and a foregone conclusion. Doesn't make it so.
No one knows what the Judge will do at this point, no one but the judge herself.
So we wait.
Why did the banks debt not transfer with it when it went to receivership?
That's the 50 billion dollar question my friend. That is part of the heart of this case, it all boils down to two things in general IMO. 1. An improper seizure 2. An improper sale
The FDIC press release about the sale:
http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2008/pr08085.html
"JPMorgan Chase acquired the assets, assumed the qualified financial contracts and made a payment of $1.9 billion. Claims by equity, subordinated and senior debt holders were not acquired."
Why the heck not? How are you going to put up what is supposed to be a "failed" bank for sale, and allow someone to cherry-pick only the good stuff?
This is part of what is wrong with the system, the FDIC only exists allegedly to insure and protect depositors, and that they can do, but someone other than they and the OTS needed to have been involved here, because in the larger picture, thousands of investors were wiped out, jobs lost, and the entire U.S. economy brought to the brink of cataclysm by an inept knee-jerk move by a lesser bureaucrat.
Wrong again. You can't claim to know what Bonderman thinks or thought about anything.
The issue in front of THJC, has to do with damages to WMI from the unlawful seizure and sale of their subsidiary. If JPM owns the banks now, then they also own the debt. That is part of the essence of this whole case, this was not a transaction, it was a smash-and-grab, you can't seize a bank and then cherry-pick, taking all assets and deposits, and not assume the debt as well.
WMB in fact, owes WMI big time, which means JPM owes WMI big-time.
It's all laid out in the complaint, have you read it?
http://www.nwprogressive.org/vault/legal/MAR09WaMuLawsuit.pdf
There are substantial damages being asked for here, there are multiple suits, trademark infringement, torts, and all sorts of claims of even illegal activity by JPM, and since they didn't even bother to argue when accused of bribery in Alabama, and instead shelled out 700 million, I think that shows a tendency. And claims of more illegal activity are not at all baseless.
Bottom line: They should have settled when it might have been cheap, after the Alabama debacle, and with the public's mood regarding these types of matters, they could be made an example of.
And JPM's "fortress" balance sheet, will burn while we Wamuers fiddle.
Sadly that's the truth Godfather, and the potential damages that can be assessed, are staggering, it would come close to running the FDIC dry. But they have mentioned many times that they have a line of credit with the Treasury, 500 billion wasn't it?
In the end, it's always the taxpayers/investors/workers that have to pay, one of the most offensive things I find, is the series of "PSA's" the FDIC posted on Youtube, claiming that no one had ever lost a dime due to bank failures because of the FDIC. Funny, comments have been disabled on all their videos...fancy that, I guess there just isn't room for all the thank-you's from the grateful public?
So you admit, that Wamu was worth at least 7 times what JPM paid for them? That's awesome Johnny! I agree, but really I expect it was worth more than that, 2300 or so brick-and-mortar banks alone are worth more than 14 billion. 50 billion will do, it will pay off all debt, pay the preferreds, and pay the commons. heck, anything could happen, with enough money, Wamu could even reorganize and emerge as a business again (that happens sometimes in bankruptcies, but you knew that)!