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Marjac
All that you say is true none of us I am sure want to throw in the towel
However what if you succeed … ??would you want to take it on ??
How much for scotus funding ??
Alm
N7
Marjacs briefs were very clear and set it all out
The problem is not we decide or what view we take - it is up to the 3 judges - I state the obvious
But we have to recognise this was always going to be a difficult task - convincing the 3
We got one judge we wanted - D and R were not what we wanted
Alm
Marjac
The cropping of the table
If the full table was not a document actually considered in the trial- although the K study was considered and debated by the expert witnesses- the introduction of the cropped table is even more dishonest and calculating - because what that does is it gives the impression that this was “the table “in K from the exhibit that was never seen in evidence in the case )
If the full table had been physically considered by the court in evidence then (whilst it might not have been an immediate and glaring difference ( as between the full table and the cropped one ) it might just have been more possible that someone might have identified that the table used by the generic post trial statement of facts was not the full one
The generics must have thought “let’s crop this table let’s slip this in because no one in this trial has seen the full table in the trail and neither Amarin s lawyers and most certainly not the judge will think to actually look for find and read the K study table to cross compare the real table to the cropped one we are popping in “
Bingo - we change the truth snd no one will spot it
Alm
Marjac
Re Amarin joining if remand
If they did not seek to do so to at that point argue rule 60 it would be incomprehensible
Negligent
Madness
I hope we get to that point …
Alm
Marjac
Thank you for this
If K - the full table was an exhibit it surely must be considered as part of the evidence in the case ?
If it was not exhibited it would not be evidence ….
Maybe we treat exhibits differently here in UK
We do have a process of disclosure - disclosed documents may be considered by the other party - either party may seek to introduce a document into evidence
There may be arguments as to seeking to exclude a proposed exhibit as irrelevant and thus not capable of being admitted in evidence
So if it were exhibited - k study and table - it would surely be capable of consideration by the court and the parties to the proceedings
If it - the table -were not specifically referred to by a witness - because as I understand it in the trial the K study was referred to by witnesses - it would / should have been a document - the table - that Amarin lawyers snd their expert considered
And they should have cross compared the cropped table in the generic post trial statement of facts to the original table ???
And thus seen the cropping and it’s likely impact on The judge
Alm
Ziploc / north
To be precise
The whole table was in evidence -within the K study documentation exhibited in the case -as I understand it
From that the table was extracted and cropped - crucial bits were removed which in effect allowed the meaning of k to be changed
It then was submitted in the cropped form as part of the written generic post submission of fact
So Du - indeed all could have / indeed may have / will have -within the trial - read the full table
Then Du could have / should have / did - read the cropped table in generic post submission of facts
She adopted complete passages from the generic post trial submission of facts -including the cropped table ( no doubt copy and paste) into her written judgement
Hence the cropped table (and heinke evidence) rewrote the meaning of the K study
Hence -along with Mori being a balls up -the patents were lost
Amarin lawyers if they were doing their job should have seen the cropped table
Amarin lawyers if they were doing their job with the correct examination by expert as to Mori should have seen the Mori balls up
Alm
Lemmi
An email /letter to the judge and the other side !!!!
The parties could agree the error and generics resubmit the corrected post trial submission of facts
If needs be a request to make further submission to the court -pre judgement -as to error in the post trial submission of facts - to point this out in an oral hearing
Any and all could be done
Alm
Lemmi
I answered
A trial is not over until a judgement is delivered
Simply put the trial was not over when the cropped table appeared in the generic post findings of fact
These post findings of fact delivered by both sides are considered by the judge prior to announcing judgement
Amarin lawyers if they were on point should have recognised the cropping of the K table and it’s impact
They had the opportunity to submit to the judge that there was a error in the way a document which was part of the evidence was being presented
They did not
Du adopted the cropped table sand indeed the wording of the generics view of K in her judgement
They were lifted from the generics version into her judgement
Example
So defendant says in testimony
“ I did not shoot her “
In closing speech prosecutor submits
The defendant admitted in testimony he killed the victim he said and I quote from his testimony “ I did shoot her “
The defence would intervene
No the prosecutor is wrong -the record says “ I did not shoot her “ he denied shooting the victim
“Not “here equals cropped table
Amarin lawyers had opportunity to correct
The trial had not finished
Judgement had not been delivered
I do not know the date of submission of post findings of fact and exact date of judgement
But there is a time interval
The case was not closed in that interval
Intervention to correct incorrectly stated evidence could snd should have occurred in that interval
Alm
North cropped table
The full table was exhibited - the table was then cropped to leave out the NS legend
The lawyers for generic submitted in their proposed finding of fact entered the cropped table -
their written framework - their exact words -including the cropped table were lifted lock stock and barrel into Du’swritten judgement
She bit on their apple
Fell for it completely
That’s my understanding
Alm
Marjac
I will gladly share your hopes and let your optimism set my take on things aside - the briefs were wondrous the supporting documents indisputable
Newman saw it clearly she recognised what has gone on here - she had read it that’s for sure
Let’s see if she can sway the other two
Alm
Zip
Hope springs eternal …
Even if this battle is not won there are others that lie ahead …
Hope remains
Alm
Jasbg
I agree with what you say
Patents should be considered granted and approved/refused by a patent office
Not by courts
Alm
Capt beer
Search bbc news “call 999if suspect heart attack”
A very detailed news article about heart attacks in Uk
- contrast to NiCE on Vascepa
Alm
Jasbg
Replies
1-no they did not have to allow orals - they could have decided on the briefs
2-yes sadly I do expect we will be denied
3–I would have expected questioning but the point to be drawn is the line of questioning was very negatively directed as to the issue of standing -what I had hoped for was a panel who on the briefs could see the incorrect decision was reached by Du and who would have tried to ease the route through standing - there was no questioning of hikma lawyer as to standing arguments
4– the wrong - tge injustice - was apparent from Narjacs excellent briefs and the supporting documentation -it stares one in the face if you read the case papers
5-the Ap panel could have opened the door as to standing if they had wanted to
6-I hope and pray for a positive outcome - my heart dictates such - my head reaches another conclusion I am afraid
Alm
Laurent
An excellent summary … but
There we were at the orals … an opportunity for any one of the three judges to ask hikma/ reddy lawyer “ can you just explain to us how the post finding of facts contained a cropped table which cropped table omitted the legend that the K study showed no statistical significance between the groups”
Or “do you recognise that the Mori paper was in fact statistically flawed”
And “absent K and Mori where is the clear and convincing evidence rendering the patents obvious ?”
No knife was dug into the generics back ….
We live in Hope but there was little comfort in the lines of questioning
Marjac the magnificent
He surely was just the in the face of a very hostile Dyk and Rena
Absurd that the issue of who is Epadi was raised at oral - (although I feared this may come up )-surely a preliminary matter if relevant to have been raised by the court and or by the generics in their response brief -
And it took time away from the central issues in the orals
Alm
Today’s hearing
Marjac was superb
I have tried to help this action where I can - and no one could have done more than Marjac and his team
My lawyers view (having read in detail the briefs and reply (as advocated so ably by Narjac today ) is that DU’s decision was wrong because neither K nor Mori could or should be considered to be prior art to support by clear and convincing evidence such as to render patents obvious
My lawyers view is that sadly the panel will find DU’s decision as to no standing remain (taking into account the judges approach as expressed in questioning - albeit a note of sympathy from Newman)
We should all be prepared for such an outcome
If I am wrong I will ecstatic beyond measure
Alm
Lemmi - rule 60 - cropping
If Amarin counsel had picked up on the presence of the cropped table in generic post trial statement of facts they could quite easily and prior to the judgement have raised the issue with the judge so that she was aware that k showed no statistical significance
The proceedings were still live up to the point of judgement
They failed
This is one of the reasons Amarin and it’s lawyers did not pursue Rule 60 - because they would have had to admit they failed in the trial to act diligently
They were protecting themselves - by not raising rule 60 snd their lawyers from action by shareholders as to their failure
They never expected it to be picked up -
Epadi did so (along with the Mori statistical error raised by Bhatt and earlier others )- again Amarin snd it’s lawyers should have picked tge Mori statistical errors by having a statistician pour over all the raised studies in the case
Abject failure by Amarin and it’s lawyers lost the patents
Alm
Newman
Marjac has a huge huge ace as to Newman - it relates to rule 60 and “cropping “-
I just hope and pray he gets the opportunity to work it in
Alm
Lizaa
Marjac / Epadi case -We all hope It shall be called the Greyson victory
Bless him and may he win through his struggles
Alm
Capt
I am
Email me
Allan.maidment@maidments.co.Uk
Alm
Lizzy
The reality is that KM and the board could not as we say in England “ run a chip shop”
They have
No PR
No concept of protecting the SP by developing market perception
No idea that you have to fight to win - over approvals - and throw an A team into every battle -Uk non approval a complete and utter disgrace
No idea how to fight and win in court patent battles
Denner is right this company is seriously under valued
JL. KM. and the board are completely responsible for this
The sooner Denner gets on the board and shakes this company up the better
Absolutely useless
Alm
Number 7
Let the truth
Let’s hope Amarin and it’s lawyers aren’t missing something !!!!
Alm
Marjac and the team -
You know what the important thing is :
Marjac and his team won this already - they won our hearts and our minds
They have set out in the clearest black and white where truth and justice lies
Giving us all a voice -a voice that has been heard
Now our wildest dreams will be realised if this case comes through but we should all recognise no matter what the outcome how much we are in the debt of Marjac and the team -they have given us hope and a chance for justice
If there is justice we already know the outcome
Alm
Shadolane / kiwi
Ok so Pfizer would not buy the whole company … what’s lets say for equivalent of 4 dollars a share ???
Of course they have an interest - big pharma as like as not all do
All about …. How much ??
Don’t think they will get it though for 4 bucks
Alm
Michael / Marjac
Marjac expressed it more succinctly than I but we say the same thing !!
Alm
Michael
They have 30 days from Andrews decision to resubmit case before him in somewhat different form - putting it simply
Or if they don’t want to try that to appeal
My view they will resubmit their case to Andrews rather than at this stage appealing
If he rejects case against Hikma again they will then appeal in any event
Long way to go
Du will have no part in matters of infringement proceedings
Alm
Downtown
Your narrative speaks volumes for the shadow that Amarin has become …a company needs presence …. It’s needs to covey its message …. It needs to cultivate outside perception
1 out of ten thus far is the highest I would score Amarin …
(They get that for spelling their name right)
Rocket up the backside required !! Let’s hope Sarrisa can launch some big ones
Alm
Shadolane
Agree completely … but we will get back
Alm
Shadolane
I will be delighted if it takes less time and goes much higher !!
But where we have been - 20 plus is history and simply because we were once there does not automatically qualify for a return to the same levels
Different things applied then …..
Alm
Michael / tasty
It will take a year to get this back to 10 plus
But we can at least see pressure beginning to be exerted
That is great progress
Alm
Michael / tasty
It will take a year to get this back to 10 plus
But we can at least see pressure beginning to be exerted
That is great progress
Alm
Ralphey
What Sarrisa will do is push this boat into other ownership- BP -who will be able to cost effectively expand sales and to a BP who will see it as an ever growing market year in year ahead
Amarin had to invent a new sales department with several hundred reps and a very costly advertising campaign- in USA and Europe
It’s a different story for BP who already have so much in place - different economies of scale apply
Sarrisa will want to get the company sold -
We don’t know do we who or what has stood in the way of a BO - the Greedy board wanting an unattainable price ? Happy anyway with their free options and big salaries to carry on grinding it out - they could keep this GIA going for years and never return a penny to shareholders
Sarrisa will buy another 25 million shares and then kick most of the the board out
They will run the company in such a way as sets it up for a sale … they won’t have a huge or sole focus on sales over the next 12 months
But they will have the for sale sign lit up in the sky
Alm
Kiwi
Don’t agree as to the idea of split as being the option …
I agree that selling to a pharma with existing sales structure is the obvious choice - and a pharma with interest in the cvd field but why just EU ?
Why not everywhere ?
Sell Eu and What do you do with the USA bit ? What Amarin continues to trade in USA but with a big pot of cash for selling off Europe ?
How do shareholders get at that cash - and when ?
Sure it could be done but -Very messy business
Sell the lot - USA generates 500 mill - get rid of all the staff everywhere in BO - profitable in USA ?
Ok generics may erode but it’s cash and cash flow and there’s none yet in Europe
Throw in ROW - plenty for a big pharma to go at
Guess we will find out within 12 months
Alm
Golf stud
10dollars would make Sarrisa cica 150 million
Sure they will want more and may (wehope ) get more
Marjac win - I love the guy - he has worked his socks off and simply achieved wonders thus far …and that goes for the whole team .and I most certainly have every faith in their efforts and determination
But it is still a very difficult task to win an appeal - let us hope but let us not assume
I do not think Sarrisa are placing any element of reliance on the Rule 60
Alm
Selling - Michael
Probs baker brothers or some such and Sarrisa still buying
Alm
Kiwi- Sarrisa
From recent interview they work on a 6 to 12 month time frame - so we may expect quick relatively outcome
24 million shares costing 100million thus far-nice round number - but Will they buy more ?
If they were cheap - and “substantially undervalued” when first being bought by Sarrisa (plus 5 dollars ) they are certainly very cheap now
More buying now may give an indication - either of rapid expectation on timeframe and / or if substantial price uplift
But why split the company …..a buyer may say - I will have it’s cash and stock and current revenues plus EU and rest of world - it’s like you can throw in USA market as a freebie
They would get rid of all the staff and have a no overhead drug (save of course inventory cost)
Let’s face it with SP where it is the whole kit and caboodle would likely go for equivalent to 10 dollars a share
In the right big pharma hands V will be a good selling drug with virtually no overhead cost as an add on to existing drug portfolio
Splitting reduces number of potential buyers
Alm
Michael
In truth I know not … but hope he still retains !!!
Odd to have bought and sold -if they have-so quickly and at a loss ??
Not his apparent usual Modus
Alm
Robin F
You are looking at the right subject matter. One patent - not obvious -we don’t need to restore them all
There are some brilliant scientific minds posting on this board
A bit of heavy lifting from them will help
Alm
Share price
There are a number of large block share holders in Amarin
It would be fairly simple for one or more of them to start consistently buying shares to push the price back up -
We don’t want them to sell their shares !!
Retail are just buying and selling and penny trading this share albeit within a nasty downward trend
If the Sp stays this low - and the company starts to get sales and other initatives moving forward the Sp will improve
It will take a few years-perhaps longer
Amarin are a long way away from abandoning the USA market -years away - if they ever had to -and even then they would sell generic if they think there’s a profit in it -they will keep it going continue to reduce costs base preserve cash and over time see other markets grow
Amarin will continue its legal warfare as will Marjac !!
Ok these are not happy times but endlessly churning what has gone wrong in the past won’t change a damned thing
What needs to be done is to get things right ahead- the boards jobs depend upon it
Alm
Rule 60.
Detailed thoughts
Detailed response truly welcomed
1-So assume standing not an issue
2- assume FC accepts K wrongly applied by Du (we know how that was facilitated cropping etc)
3-assume FC accepts Mori statistically corrupt and can’t be applied
How do the patents get restored ?
Is it all of the patents ? Or some ? Or one ?
- we only need one of those litigated
Du - please read her decision …
Was of the view I summarise that lovaza and vascepa essentially same thing and that L renders patents obvious - all of them ?
She says in detail how matters surrounding L render obvious
- additionally she She relies on Mori And K and another study Hubashi
Note she gives detailed analysis on the 926 patent singles that one out …
So anyone want to do some quick lifting here and really come out with the nuts and bolts as to how Rule 60 shines through
As we are now in the 2,s p range let’s see what we can do to sharpen Marjacs pencil !!!
Help needed from sharp posters as to both scientific and legal aspects of this
Alm