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You are right Sparklet. DGLD has been our perfect money-spinner this morning. Any thoughts on when to take money off the table?
'Gold imports by China from Hong Kong jumped 89% in February as lower prices led to an increased demand for gold. Chinese buyers purchased 97 metric tons of gold in January alone and the news of the demand was barely covered in the media and led to no impact on the gold price.
Desperate people and nations around the world are being forced by circumstance to sell their gold (ref: Cyprus)while creditors are continuing to accumulate gold.'
Clearly Sparking person, the 'obvious doji crash' has spoofed you once again.
Keep at it, though.
You sure am.
'Let Us Prey...'
Let us pray, too. It all helps.
Bad luck, Shorty Sparks. Maybe it was the 'obvious doji crash' that fooled you.
Well, it seems strange that if he's right the Fed have been following the wrong strategy for a very long time.They can't have it both ways.
The Fed can't have the POG forced down to protect the USD and the US Bond market, but then reverse strategy on the POG and let the USD and T-Bonds suffer, just to make it expensive for eastern central banks to buy gold.
Time will tell who is nuts.
Jim Sinclair 's at it again.
Having shouted for months about the Fed manipulating the POG down he's now saying they will manipulate it up. To foil China and other eastern gold-buying central banks....sometimes he's hard to understand.
From yesterday's 'Got Gold Report' re COTS
"Note also the extremely low net short positioning (82473) of the Producer/Merchants for gold. The Producer Merchants, the category which includes bullion banks, have not had so few bets that gold would fall in price since the 2008 panic. That is the same thing as saying that the large commercial traders are currently the least fearful that gold prices will fall further since December 9, 2008, when they then held just 80,669 contracts net short with gold then near $776 the ounce."
http://silverdoctors.com/jim-willie-zirp-the-death-knell/
Interesting article from Jim.
You could get arrested for picking bottoms. People like you should be very careful.
ps. When are we getting that 'obvious doji crash' ?
I see your charts are telling you the POG will maybe go up or down.
Thank goodness we have this invaluable advice to turn to if we are in doubt.
4th April GATA, formally known as the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, insists that a gold cartel is suppressing metal prices and is set on exposing that group’s secret activities.
Gold Investing News (GIN) contacted Chris Powell, treasurer, secretary and director of GATA, and had an extensive discussion about what is going on in the gold market.
GIN: Can you outline how the gold manipulation scheme works?
CP: Sure. Central banks that want to support their currencies — and support the US dollar in particular — want to control interest rates and government bond prices, so they intervene in the gold market by selling their gold outright, by leasing it into the market through bullion banks and the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) and by swapping it to other central banks that will be doing these sales or leases. They also sell gold options and futures contracts through the BIS. They do a lot of shorting of gold to control the price.
GIN: Who is involved in this manipulation scheme?
CP: I think all the major western central banks are at least aware of it and are cooperating, if not participating. I think all of the western central banks that were identified openly as being part of the London gold pool in the 1960s are certainly cooperating with it. Though I think the major ones lately have been the US, the Bank of England and the Bundesbank. But I think any central bank that has been identified as having swapped or leased gold is a participant.
GIN: So, you’d say that the gold cartel is composed of central banks?
CP: It is a central bank scheme, but they operate very often through agents like bullion banks, JPMorgan Chase & Company (NYSE:JPM) and HSBC. The BIS in Basel, Switzerland conducts much of the gold trading for the western central banks. So certainly the BIS is an agent as much as the bullion banks are.
GIN: Who does gold manipulation affect? Is the negative impact just limited to gold investors?
CP: Oh no. It’s the destruction of all free markets. It’s the destruction of transparency in government. Certainly gold investors and mining companies and developing countries that rely on the production of commodities for their livelihood are terribly harmed.
But from my standpoint as an American citizen and a journalist who wants transparent government, I think the greatest casualties are free markets and accountability in government. This scheme is a matter of rigging markets surreptitiously, and when you rig markets, you don’t have free markets anymore. And when you lose free markets, you lose your competitive economy as well as your democracy when such major government action is undertaken in secret.
GIN: Is gold manipulation done mostly through leases, swaps and selling gold?
CP: Not only gold, but futures and options as well. They are hugely capitalized operations, so they have very deep pockets. The can probably sell gold futures and options to an extent that no buyer can compete with them. And most buyers will be driven out of the market by the amount of imaginary gold that central banks can sell because they have the ability to create money in infinite amounts.
GIN: How do the bullion banks and the futures market factor in?
CP: Because central banks trade through them, they are acting as agents. Whenever there is any crisis in the financial markets, where do the Fed and the Treasury go to try to put together a bailout? They start with JPMorgan Chase.
The use of New York investment banks by the US government, particularly JPMorgan Chase, that’s public record. I’m sure if you asked for access to all the communications between the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury and JPMorgan Chase, you would get a lot of interesting information — if it was made available to you.
But again, these are questions that are best put to central banks. I am only a derivative source of information. I can’t speak for the Fed and the Treasury and the Bank of England. I can show you the exchanges we’ve had with them. I can show you what has come out as a result of our suing the Fed. But we are not the possessors of the original information here. We are not the original sources.
I have always marveled that we should be questioned at GATA before any questions are put to the central banks about their policy in the gold market. I think if you pose questions [to the central banks] that are specific enough, you will find pretty quickly that the door is slammed in your face.
GIN: You said the motive for gold manipulation is to control interest rates and bond rates?
CP: If you read the academic paper on GATA’s internet site called Gibson’s Paradox and the Gold Standard, that paper analyzes the historical relationship between gold and real interest rates. If you read it, I think you will indeed find that there is a historic relationship. And indeed, gold is pretty much by definition a determinant of currency value and interest rates — and by extension, government bond prices.
Gold is a terribly important determinant of the value of other financial instruments. We have collected a lot of Department of State memorandums, CIA memos and documents throughout history about the importance the US government places on controlling the gold price. Many central bankers have made statements signifying that the gold price is of great concern. Governments have always sought to control the gold price and that’s what the gold standard was really about.
GIN: If gold market price control has pretty much always existed, does the tactic remain the same? Or does the gold cartel switch up how the price is controlled from time to time?
CP: They certainly change their mechanisms. Back in the 1960s, the western central banks were controlling the gold price in a forthright, but very costly, fashion. That is, they were dishoarding a lot of metal out of their reserves and they lost a lot of it. And as they were down to the last tonnage, they decided they couldn’t do it that way anymore
They’ve come up with a much more efficient and powerful way of controlling the gold market insofar as they’ve created a vast imaginary supply of what we call paper gold. That is, certificates claiming ownership to gold. Central banks realized that they could basically underwrite the paper gold market run by bullion banks by advancing gold to bullion banks as necessary to avert a short squeeze in gold when bullion banks sold more gold than they could deliver.
GIN: Can you help our audience better understand Bill Murphy’s [of GATA] comment about central banks realizing in 2001 that there was too much gold at too low of a price? He said central banks then embarked on a management scheme that has been ongoing now for 12 years.
CP: I think he meant that western central banks had to unload some of their gold into the market to cover the short position built up by the bullion banks.
There was something called the gold carry trade that went on during the 90s. We believe it was effectively devised by Robert Rubin when he became Treasury secretary. In the gold carry trade, a lot of western central banks leased gold at a very low interest rates to bullion banks. Bullion banks sold the gold and used the proceeds to buy government bonds paying something like 5 percent per year. And they collected a spread that was risk free as long as central banks could guarantee to make gold available in the event of any short squeeze.Bullion banks made a lot of money. Gold prices were suppressed. Interest rates were suppressed and government bond prices were supported. That started to become a problem when the gold started to run out and production was decreased by the falling gold price. So all of a sudden, the gold dried up.
I can’t prove it, but I think the gold price rose between 2000 and 2010 — despite central banks announcing gold sales every few weeks — because they really were not sales at all. They were the cancellation of leases that had been issued in the previous decade. Central banks realized they could not recover their gold, so they agreed to let the bullion banks off the hook with a cash settlement.
GIN: If western central banks have lost most of their gold, leased it out, swapped it, sold it and they do not have the physical supply that they claim to have, why would western central banks not also be buyers now that there are so many emerging central banks in the market?
CP: Number one, we don’t know that they are not also buying. But I don’t think they would necessarily announce it. I can give you some examples of how official gold information is wrong or just misinformation. But I do think the western central banks that have been leasing or swapping the gold are in some trouble here.
GIN: Given that gold is so important and western central banks do not have the metal that they once had, why are there no reports of western central banks buying gold when we see emerging nations central banks buying at an increasing pace?
CP: I think it’s because there are two groups of central banks operating in the world, an eastern group and a western group. The western group is, along with United States, suppressing the gold price to support the dollar. The eastern central banks are not part of that, and I think they see gold as a very good reserve asset long term. Not every central bank in the world is in on the gold price suppression scheme.
A few years ago, among the Wikileaks cables that were leaked were cables from the US Embassy in Beijing, China to the Department of State in Washington. They were translations into English of Chinese government news agency reports about the western gold price suppression scheme. The significance of these cables is that they show that the Chinese government has long been aware of the western gold price suppression scheme, and that the US government knows that the Chinese government knows.
GIN: Okay, so the US government then is leading the way of gold suppression along with other central banks? But whoever actually has physical gold is ultimately going to be able to control the gold price — is that correct?
CP: Yes, I would say whoever has the most gold is going to run the gold market. And whoever runs the gold market is going to run all of the world currency markets and probably all of the interest rates and government bond markets as well. Because the gold price is going to determine all of those things.
GIN: And as far as we know, it is predominately emerging markets that are stocking up and in essence gaining control over the gold market?
CP: They are certainly gaining influence, but we don’t know how much. The official gold reports are notoriously unreliable. Everybody expects that China is acquiring a lot more gold than it is reporting. A few years ago, China went for something like five years without reporting any increase in its gold reserves and then one day reported a vast increase in its reserves. That vast increase did not happen overnight. The same thing I’m sure is going on right now.
This is a matter of the highest national security. Western central banks do not want the world to know how much gold they have in the vault and how much they have leased or swapped out because gold is an incredibly powerful weapon.
GIN: So, GATA is raising the money to prepare lawsuits against the Federal Reserve, the US Department of State and the US Department of the Treasury [to sue for all their gold records]?
CP: Yes, we are trying to raise the money. We filed informational requests with the Fed, the Department of State and the Treasury to seek access to all their gold records. Those agencies have not complied with our requests and we are now eligible to sue them in federal court. That kind of litigation we have not undertaken because we just haven’t raised enough money.
GIN: How much does legal action like that cost?
CP: With this kind of lawsuit, which is such a comprehensive request against such major elements of the US government, I don’t think I would want to get into it without having at least half a million dollars in the bank. It could cost substantially more than that though. I think the explosiveness of the material being sought is just overwhelming.
GIN: Over the time that GATA has existed, how has sentiment toward your organization changed?
CP: I think it’s changed vastly. I think at first the attitude in the gold world was that we were nuts. Now, I think the attitude in the gold world is that we’re probably onto something and certainly no one wants to argue with us because we have all of this documentation we offer up and it can’t be argued with.
GIN: If miners were to attempt to make a case to shareholders that they want to invest in supporting GATA, what could a company say it expects to get in return?
CP: As I said, if we could raise a half million or a million dollars, we would undertake these Freedom of Information lawsuits against the Fed, Treasury and Department of State. And within a year or two, I think we might extract some information as interesting as the information we extracted in our [previous] lawsuit against the Fed.
Now, that information by itself won’t do any good, but if it is publicized enough and if it exposes the gold market as rigged, then the gold market will collapse. Nobody will trade there any more and people will try to undertake some other mechanisms for buying and selling gold.I think that would be an immense benefit to the mining industry in the monetary metals. I think if the world ever wakes up and realizes that, say, something like 75 percent of the investment gold it thinks it owns does not exist and is really a paper claim at a bullion bank that does not have the metal, then the price of investment gold and silver will rise.
GIN: Whether you look at the futures market or ETFs, there are clearly a lot of people who have no interest in taking possession of the physical metal. Why do you think it will be such a bombshell if gold manipulation is unveiled to the mass public when that would mean the current system can work without the underlying gold?
CP: I think it would give gold investors pause. This is the realization that we are trying to bring to gold investors around the world: that if you are not prepared to take delivery of the gold you are buying and move it outside of the banking system and you are investing in gold as a hedge against inflation or a currency collapse or whatever, you might as well just flush your money down the toilet. Because people who are running the world financial system can create infinite amounts of the unreal.
GIN: Taking physical possession and the gold manipulation scheme are basically concerns for people who are using the metal as a hedge against inflation or some type of currency collapse?
CP: It is for anybody who is buying gold because he wants the price to appreciate or the protection that gold can provide. Infinite paper will be created to keep the price down. That’s the scheme now. Central banks have decided that they can beat gold only if they are dishonest and deceptive and create a lot of imaginary gold that doesn’t exist. And that’s how they preserve more of their gold reserves.
GIN: Since this scheme has been in existence, plenty of people have made lots of money with just paper?
CP: Yes, that’s right. And we argue that this is a controlled retreat by the western central banks as their gold reserves are being bled out. And they are just trying to bleed them out as slowly as they can.
sparkman "TIME TO LOADDDD UP!!!
WIll buy a bit, but I see it going under 1500 soon,"
You don't make sense - again.
If it's going under 1500, why buy any until it does? lol
(it's not those 'obvious dojis' talking is it? lol
Hey Sparkler, Jim Sinclair is talking about you today. Are your ears burning? lol
Wow there's a surprise. The 7.30 smack down... Who'd a thought...
yes I'm sure you are correct, but the fact remains that these 'doomsday now' shouters have been wrong and they continue to be wrong. The things that they make legitimate warnings about for us all, are simply not happening.I agree with what they all say as to the dangers bubbling around but for example, the Fed has primed the stock market and it has responded well, housing is not bankrupt, and their control over PM prices seams pretty tight every day, week after week. So maybe the dangers are not so great as they make out?
Take today for example, Jim Sinclair is rattling on again about the real amount of derivatives being a quadrillion or more and that it will bring chaos to Central Banks . If Central Banks were sensing danger then I would suggest that they would take steps to wind down the exposure by say 10% by July 1st , and then repeat the programme until a desired level is reached.
But they aren't doing that. It's strange isn't it.
It's certainly much more complex than blithely saying someone who isn't in full agreement is ignorant. That's just too facile and limits the debate.
I think there is some insight but not huge volumes. Thing about Willie is that he has been banging the drum like this for ages and none of his end-of-the-world-as we-know-it doomsday stuff happens or even looks like it's on the way to happening.
In fact nothing really changes much.
Jim Sinclair shouts 'Apocalype Coming!' too and the 'same old same old' occurs. Eg today. Everyone could see that the GS/JPM cabal of evil kept gold at or below $1650 virtually all day.
Sparky's 'obvious doji crash' didn't come, nor did gold soar.
Why doe these brimstone and sulphur guys keep barking it out, I wonder?
Australia's new deal with China is bad for the USD and good for the POG.
I'm not surprised Australia no longer wants USDs from its biggest trading partner.
I put my questions below, to both GATA and KWN this morning to see if they would have a view. We'll see.
I have asked various questions of GATA on prior occasions but I have never received a reply.
The webmaster at KWN said thank you for my email, and added that KWN does not respond to all emails.
If I get any responses I'll post them here.
I see we have had the usual 8.30/9.00/9.30 eastern time smack downs of the gold price. This timing seems very predictable and occurs daily.
It seem s very clear to all, especially the gold experts/fund managers and bloggers that the school of thought suggesting that the Fed's serf-banks GS, JPM, are massively naked-shorting paper gold, is true.
So the game is very firmly rigged in order to support the Fed's low-interest rate policy. If we can have QE of $85bn per month to infinity, the settle-up bill for serf-bank losses on naked shorting are small change to the Fed's costs and suggests that the rigging of the gold market in this way can go on indefinitely. Bernanke has already confirmed that the QE programme will likely go on until at least end 2015.
Given these circumstances which contradict the age-old USA principle of a free-market economy, it begs the question, why would anyone want to offer investors a gold or PM fund investment, and if they are, are they telling the new potential investor what is happening and how their investment will be constrained?
For the smaller investor who makes his own decisions, the question arises as to why should he invest in gold if there are much stronger forces controlling the price level?
On a wider issue, the question arises as to why Bernanke is not publicly cornered and cross-examined on this.
He appears before various Congressional committees on a regular basis but no Congressman seems to have the courage to ask him the direct question 'Does the Fed or its bank affiliates or agents follow a policy of intervention in the Gold market to control its price in order to support the Fed's low interest rate policy?"
It doesn't seem such a difficult question to put and it would bring about a confirmation or a denial which would or could be subject to follow-up clarifying questions.
Why aren't these questions asked of Bernanke?
I agree entirely with that sentiment.
Thanks jt. This is surprising given that the main Canadian banks didn't get involved in the disastrous derivative market in the last banking crisis. Food for thought.
Bob, your post does not make sense...
"Its glaringly apparent that there is a strong move on -
to scare big money out of the banks ....
.....There are two things to do immediately:
1. Get your money out of the "Too Big To Fails....."
So....'they' want to scare money out of the banks, and you say people should get their money out of the big banks.
What the Sam Hill are you on about?
Have a nice Easter.
"Canada's gratuitous Haircut" ?
Please explain.
It's not a rumor. It's the NZ Green Party touting the 'benefits' of the Cyprus approach. I think they have been quite open about their views on doing it.
When is that gold crash coming that you predicted, Sparkler?
Following the POG buys and sells this am? Incredible battle going on to keep the POG below $1600. The moment it gets near, the sells flood in. I wonder who will win today....?
OK Sparkler, I'm ready if the obvious dojis are... Can you say WHEN?
lol
Sparky I spend about 10 mins max on this board per day. Don't call me a troll. I get very ...upset about name calling.... lol.
The reason I come here is that I can compare your and Bobs' commentary on charts with industry 'experts' (lol) like Sprott and Sinclair....and make it an enjoyable few minutes... lol
I agree. Hold it in your paw. This shows that ABN Amro want to confiscate gold physical holdings they have some control over.
I suspect anyone with an ounce of sense will withdraw their bars and get as far away as possible from that bank.
You're right. The doji shape makes it obvious.
So, no physical delivery.
Those clients who want physical gold will go elsewhere.
Those who are fooled into having paper accounts about gold are now in the faux paper market. All this despite 'expert' Jim Sinclair saying the gold market is moving to solely physical.
Does that old codger get anything right these days or is he smoking something good?
If there was a gold shortage the price would be going up. It isn't. There isn't a gold shortage.
I did say recently that I thought there would be a COMEX delivery default (in the next four weeks) and this move if it occurred would show what is behind AMRO's position, but my original suggestion of a default is looking a lot less likely. The POG languishes.
IMHO There will be a gold dealer default on Comex during the next 6 weeks or an ugly, scrambled settlement in cash. IMHO.
Argentines are buying more gold than ever to protect their savings from the Western Hemisphere’s fastest inflation reported Bloomberg.
Banco de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires, Argentina’s only bank offering gold bullion coins and bars to investors and savers is negotiating with mining companies to purchase gold direct as surging demand depletes the scrap supply.
sunnybank 'Well, if this is what Cypress can do to the POG, just imagine when the rest of the world's poop hits the fan! JMO. GLTA! '
You are so right. If a Cypress tree can do this just think what a country such as Cyprus can do! lol
Those in other countries who also fear an electronic grab of deposit account funds by their own government will withdraw funds and buy significant amounts of physical gold, possibly storing it at home, or outside their own country with a vaulting company which has no presence in their home country. At home is probably best as international governmental agreements might make non-national vaulting companies vulnerable.
Greece and Portugal are templates as to what they will start with. Did you not see the water cannons and police batons in Athens and Lisbon?
Unemployment and inflation will trigger marches, and then some violence will start. There's no reason to believe the great American people havw different views on being shafted than those in Greece or Portugal.
I suspect there will be long lines at cash machines in Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal this weekend and on Monday (bank holidays apart).
I strongly suspect Greek banks will face the highest demand for cash withdrawals. ATM machines will run dry in some places.
Closer to home markets, it will be interesting to see if the POG moves up in defiance of those high levels of shorts reported here.
Just MHO
I see that some guy in Cyprus has already tried to drive a bulldozer through the front wall of his bank in an attempt to get his money before the government steals some of it over this weekend and Monday's Bank Holiday in Cyprus.
Is it too much of a stretch to think that Cyprus may be a test case for wider fiat confiscation in mainland Europe or elsewhere?
Clearly bank funds are easier for a government to steal than solid precious metal.
However, there is then at least some argument for possessing physical metal closer to home ie in your own home, because it would be just as easy for a government to pass a law collecting 10% of all gold bars held by resident vault companies etc.
It may be difficult for a government to get its hands on gold/silver bars held outside the country of residence of the owner, but then again international agreements could circumvent this relatively easily. To me there would seem to be an argument for stashing your PM bars at home and protecting them there