MW can only be held accountable for he said in this declaration…but what did he not say?



Now…in the above declaration… DATED: February 13, 2012 ...I notice he has mentioned WMMRC, but not WMIIC. Is it because the P&AA was not final yet and the outcome unknown? Since it was not mentioned in the declaration…does he have deniability on what may happen with WMIIC down the road?... and further…

Why didn’t he just come out and say,… we also have WMIIC, but it is an empty shell at this time as the assets were or will be used to pay debts. That would have eliminated a lot of questioning… and so the wait continues….

…Thanks AZ for exposing the possibilities of WMIIC.




But…it is mentioned they are “together”… it is also interesting they go out of their way to “not” mention WMIIC.

Nice es1, thanks eom

Yes, hopefully this year LG. eom

All of these theories (and this one included) are entertaining,…but useless. The plan is in place. The problem?... No one knows what it is.

I think “the plan” all started when Paulson said; you may regret not taking the $8. At that point the Debtors knew they had to play ball as the government was getting involved…Paulson being the treasury secretary and all…

And isn’t it odd that just one month before the take-down WMI brought WMMRC in under the umbrella…

That $8 statement alone told me Paulson knew the banking scheme in place was going to take the economy down. Paulson knew his friends at GS were going to make a killing on the default swaps at AIG… all at the cost of the taxpayer.

The plan was to divvy it up…everyone gets their share…the Debtors, JPM, Hedgies…everyone is happy…except the shareholders…uh-oh…the judge allows the equity committee. Now it’s going to be harder to keep things quiet.

Everyone had dirty deeds on the other, so even though Wamu was solvent, everything will not come back; a give and take settlement of sorts. It is my personal opinion the Judge knew what was going on…Thank you honorable one…she had Delaware laws to adhere to, but delayed until someone… Nate…made an appearance. All IMO…

Now since we are all speculating… and even those that go by the court documents…IMO… are speculating that everything has to go strictly by those documents…and then there are sealed and redacted documents (what’s behind the curtain). When has JPM ever played by the rules?…and because of that, they were the perfect candidate to bring in on this.

Where is our acquisition? There must be a different plan, acquisitions take months not years.

Let's all give Brian a hug.

A lot of us noticed this trading glitch at the time. They were so afraid someone else would be first in line.

http://www.bankruptcymisconduct.com/new/cases/wamu.html

And then of course there is any assets WMI may have.

Chase understood that it would be assuming all but a limited subset of WaMu’s assets and liabilities when it bid on Transaction Option 3.

When the FDIC is appointed as a receiver for a failed depository institution, it succeeds to all assets and liabilities of the failed institution and may transfer or retain any asset or liability. 12 U.S.C. § 1821(d)(2). In resolving the institution, the FDIC is required to use the resolution type that is the least costly to the Deposit Insurance Fund and that maximizes the return on these assets, see id. §§ 1821(d)(13)(E), 1823(c)(4)(A), and may take any action that it determines to be in “the best interests of the [failed] depository institution, its depositors, or the [FDIC],” id. § 1821(d)(2)(J). “As a result, bidders of failed institutions [are] offered a number of options, which tends to increase the number of bids the FDIC receives.” Dep. Ex. 767, FDIC Resolutions Handbook, ch. 2, at 8. If a bidder chooses to bid on an option in which fewer liabilities transfer, then that bidder will presumably need to pay a higher price if it wants to be the successful bidder. See Wigand Dep. 115:5-116:18.

http://blogs.reuters.com/alison-frankel/files/2014/10/jpmorganMBStrustee-fdicSJmotion.pdf

No need for a lawsuit…Judge gave the go-ahead for mediation (settlement, sort of) to bi-pass the morass… End result unbeknownst to you and I…..so we wait.
And, IMO although FDIC and JPM did not have to show, somehow I think they were involved.

This is in a filing..."among other assets"...it had to be said, but done in a low key way. It may not be much...Or it could be everything.

In a nutshell. Sometimes two small paragraphs can say more than a documentary. Thanks HM

Justice, thank you. The examiner was probably getting road blocks in every direction. Is it any wonder the Judge threw it out? She has to go by Delaware law, but it would be nice to know how she really feels about the system.

Tcr7309, It was a quote in response to a bkshadow post. I believe from examiner report.

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=116511747

I tried to load the examiner report today, but my computer failed to do so. Not sure if the link is bad or my computer.

http://wmish.com/exam/examiner_report.pdf

If the filing is correct at least we know WMI had/has it's own mortgages.

I only read a select few posts, so maybe this has already been shown.

Could this be any more un-clear. Why are they concerned with WMI's loan portfolio?

LG, yes and I was just trying to make a simple point to BK, that giving up billions…and that was years ago…and…’time is money’…how many more billions did they think it was worth?

Bk, I’m (guessing only) that some are thinking about this statement from Ms. Lonstein when talking about assets that have not been exposed yet.

It makes sense to me. Otherwise why not take the billions and buy cheap shares after reorganization.

They could possibly have many more shares and still take advantage of the NOL’s.

Thanks Fred, and also this: The Liquidating Trust will consist of the Liquidating Trust Assets (as defined in the Seventh Amended Plan), which include, among other things, the cash necessary to fund the Liquidating Trust. See Seventh Amended Plan §§ 1.140
and 27.3.

What are "the other things"?

http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229120213000000000024

I know we have been down this road before, but the FDIC obviously had something to hide.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2010/11/04/2349/wamu-examiner-sheds-new-light-bankruptcy-criticizes-fdic-lack-cooperation

I believe this was the first attempted settlement.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000090951810000371/settlement_agr.htm

“WMI Entities” shall mean WMI, WMIIC, Ahmanson Obligation Company, H.S. Loan Corporation, Marion Insurance Company, WAMU 1031 Exchange, WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc., WM Citation Holdings, LLC, Washington Mutual Finance Group, LLC, Soundbay Leasing LLC, WMGW Delaware Holdings LLC, WMI Rainier LLC and Washington Mutual Capital Trust.

PLAN CONTRIBUTION ASSETS

Plan Contribution Assets

The Plan Contribution Assets are each defined in the Agreement, and include the following:

To JPMC Entities:

80% of all Net Tax Refunds, except for the Homeownership Carryback Refund Amount of which the JPMC Entities shall receive zero

Anchor Litigation

Benefit Plans

BKK-Related Policies

Bonds

Checks made out to or funds received by WMI for the benefit of the WMI Medical Plan, the JPMorgan Chase Flexible Benefits Plan for Heritage WaMu Active Employees, and/or the JPMorgan Chase Flexible Benefits Plan for Heritage WaMu Retirees

JPMC Policies

JPMC Rabbi Trusts

Lakeview Plan

WMI Medical Plan

Transferred Intellectual Property

Trust Preferred Securities

Unidentified Intellectual Property

Visa Shares

WaMu Pension Plan

WMB Intellectual Property

WMIIC’s right, title and interest in and to JPMC Wind Investment Portfolio LLC


To WMI Entities:

65.178% of the Homeownership Carryback Refund Amount and 20% of all other Net Tax Refunds

American Savings Litigation

JPMC Allowed Unsecured Claim

JPMC’s right, title and interest in and to H.S. Loan Corporation

Revolving Notes

Remaining Claims

Registry Funds

WMI Accounts and the Disputed Accounts

WMI Intellectual Property

WMI Policies

WMI Rabbi Trust

$25,000,000.00 for Visa Shares

$50,000,000.00 with respect to Vendor Claims


To FDIC Receiver:

Bank Loss claims

34.822% of the Homeownership Carryback Refund Amount

Uncle Bo, not sure if it was coincidence, but the day you posted this #431078, several posters went silent for a few days...anyway, it was a good read. I just did a copy and paste and hope the bold and red comes through...otherwise I suggest readers go to you're original post.

From Eighty on the other board and my response - below:

Quote:

"-WMIH states repeatedly WMIIC is "currently"empty and shows nothing WMIIC on the balance sheet. How/why can this NOT be true?"
...
https://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229081219000000000009


Eighty,

Tons of good information here. The hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it - it all now begins to make sense. The information is abundantly clear... It would suffice to say that it ties very nicely with the FDIC's 40B adjustment(Footnote 8) from Receivership BS - as it relates to discovery, also the footnote 39 from Hochberg as to what was available to be reviewed and valued.

GLTA

Uncle Bo


Added: Perhaps A&M were busy in their billing in the past quarter namely because they were finally given the green light and access to go ahead and value the assets.

I completely agree with Ken that that we have come a long way from the bottom of the market and those valuations would be very different from Sept 2008.

CSNY has indicated that perhaps the FDIC is waiting to hear from Colyer a number. They know they are liable in the DB case, but the judge did not say for how much ?! Therefore, most likely, the delay with everything. Once they have a number they will either plug in a potential hole in the receivership with WMI assets OR if there is enough send the WMI assets to the trust plus the "leftovers" from the receivership if any.


Quote:

Although the Debtors’ have made every reasonable effort to ensure that the Schedules and
SOFAs are accurate and complete based on information that was available to them at the time of
preparation, subsequent information or discovery may result in material changes to the Schedules and SOFAs, and inadvertent errors or omissions may have occurred. As discussed below in the section entitled “Disclaimer Regarding Information,” the information provided herein, except as otherwise noted, is what was available to the Debtors and their professionals, in large part, as provided by JPMorgan Chase Bank, National Association (“JPMorgan Chase”), as custodians of most of the books and records of the Debtors as of the close of business on December 18, 2008. Because the Schedules and SOFAs contain unaudited information, which information is subject to further review, verification, and potential adjustment, there can be no assurance that the Schedules and SOFAs are complete. Subsequent receipt of information or an audit may result in material changes in financial data requiring amendment of the Schedules and SOFAs. Accordingly, the Schedules and SOFAs remain subject to further review and verification by the Debtors.The Debtors reserve their right to amend the Schedules and SOFAs from time-to-time as may be necessary or appropriate, including, but not limited to, the right to dispute or otherwise assert offsets or defenses to any claim reflected in the Schedules and SOFAs as to amount, liability, or classification, or to otherwise subsequently designate any claim as “disputed,” “contingent,” or “unliquidated.” Furthermore, nothing contained in the Schedules and SOFAs shall constitute a waiver of rights with respect to these chapter 11 cases, including, but not limited to, any rights or claims of the Debtors against any third party, issues involving substantive consolidation, equitable subordination and/or causes of action arising under the provisions of chapter 5 of the Bankruptcy Code and other relevant non-bankruptcy laws to recover assets or avoid transfers. The Schedules and SOFAs have been signed by John Maciel, Chief Financial Officer of the Debtors and a Director of Alvarez & Marsal North America, LLC (“Alvarez & Marsal”), the Debtors restructuring advisors. In reviewing and signing the Schedules and SOFAs, Mr. Maciel has necessarily relied upon the efforts, statements, and representations of the Debtors’ personnel and professionals and the information, efforts, statements, and representations of Washington Mutual Bank (“WMB”), JPMorgan Chase and their respective personnel. Although data received from JPMorgan Chase has been reviewed by Mr. Maciel, other members of Alvarez & Marsal, and the Debtors, Mr. Maciel has not (and could not have) personally verified the accuracy of each such statement and representation, including, for example, statements and representations concerning amounts owed to creditors and their addresses.

Before the Receivership, the operations of the Debtors, WMB and WMBfsb, and their respective
subsidiaries, were necessarily connected and collectively managed. As a result, it may not be immediately clear whether the Debtors or WMB own or are liable for certain of the assets and liabilities listed on the Schedules and SOFAs. In addition, the financial affairs and businesses of the Debtors, WMB and WMBfsb, were complex, and before the Receivership, the Debtors participated in a consolidated cash management system through which certain payments may have been made by one entity on behalf of another. As a result, certain payments in the
Schedules and SOFAs may have been made prepetition by one entity on behalf of another entity
through the pre-Receivership operations. In addition, as a result of the Receivership, many of
WMI’s books and records are in the custody of JPMorgan Chase. Accordingly, the Debtors find themselves in the unique position of not being in control of certain information relating to WMI and its current and former subsidiaries, including, but not limited to, certain accounting information. Furthermore, WMI is party to many agreements with vendors who lease property, perform services, deliver goods, or license software that primarily benefit the banking operations formerly owned by WMB (and now owned and operated by JPMorgan Chase). Information regarding WMI’s contracts was, in large part, provided to the Debtors by representatives of JPMorgan Chase. WMI reserves all rights with respect thereto, including the right to dispute any liabilities under such contracts. In recognition of these circumstances, the Debtors and JPMorgan Chase have endeavored to maintain an open dialogue regarding, among other things, the Debtors’ need to access their books and records.

Accordingly, the Schedules and SOFAs have been prepared, in large part, based upon the
information and work product and/or representations made available to the Debtors and their
professionals by representatives of WMB and JPMorgan Chase. Given the Debtors’ limited, and in most cases indirect, access to the information necessary to complete the Schedules and SOFAs, the Debtors could not verify the accuracy or completeness of all the information, statements and representations of WMB and JPMorgan Chase. This disclaimer is incorporated by reference in, and comprises an integral part of the Schedules and SOFAs, and should be considered in connection with any review of the Schedules and SOFAs.

Asset Presentation.
The Debtors have reported the market value of cash and cash equivalents
and investment securities where market values were readily accessible as of September 26, 2008. The Debtors believe that it would be an inefficient use of the assets of the Debtors’ estates for the Debtors to obtain current market valuations of all of their assets. Accordingly, where necessary, the Debtors have indicated in the Schedules and SOFAs that the value of certain assets (and liabilities) is “Unknown” or “Undetermined.” Where possible, however, the Debtors have provided the net book value of their assets (and liabilities) as of September 26, 2008.The ultimate market value of the Debtors’ assets and liabilities may vary materially from the net book values presented in the Schedules and SOFAs.

In addition, notwithstanding the fact that some assets may not have been recorded on the Debtors’ books and records, in certain circumstances the Debtors have listed assets as contingent assets on the Schedules and SOFAs. There may be additional assets that belong to the Debtors that have not been included on the Schedules and SOFAs. The Debtors reserve their right to amend or adjust the value of each asset or liability set forth herein and to add additional assets, as such information becomes available.

In addition, any omission of an asset of the Debtors on the Schedules and SOFAs does not constitute a representation regarding the ownership of the asset, and any such omission shall not constitute a waiver of any and all rights of the Debtors with respect to that particular asset.

Recharacterization.
The Debtors have made reasonable efforts to correctly characterize, classify,
categorize, and designate the claims, assets, executory contracts, unexpired leases, and other
items reported in the Schedules and SOFAs. However, due to the complexity and size of the
Debtors’ business, and the Debtors’ aforementioned limited access to the necessary information,
the Debtors may have improperly characterized, classified, categorized, or designated certain
items. The Debtors thus reserve all of their rights to recharacterize, reclassify, recategorize, or
redesignate items reported in the Schedules and SOFAs at a later time as necessary or
appropriate as additional information becomes available.

Contingent Assets/Causes of Action. The Debtors believe that they may possess certain claims
and causes of action against various parties. Additionally, the Debtors may possess contingent
claims in the form of various avoidance actions they could commence under the provisions of
chapter 5 of the Bankruptcy Code and other relevant non-bankruptcy laws. The Debtors, despite
reasonable efforts, may not have set forth all of their causes of action against third parties as
assets in their Schedules and SOFAs. The Debtors reserve all of their rights with respect to any
claims, causes of action, or avoidance actions they may have and nothing contained in these
General Notes or the Schedules and SOFAs shall be deemed a waiver of any such claims,
avoidance actions, or causes of action or in any way prejudice or impair the assertion of such
claims.

WMMRC
WMMRC is a wholly-owned subsidiary of WMIH. Prior to August 2008 (at which time WMMRC became a direct subsidiary of WMI), WMMRC was a wholly-owned subsidiary of FA Out-of-State Holdings, Inc., a second-tier subsidiary of Washington Mutual Bank (“WMB”) and third-tier subsidiary of WMI.

Sometime in August 2008 WMI felt a need to have WMMRC as a direct sub. One month before they filed BK. How long before August were they planning that? …Maybe when Hank said “you should have sold to JPM.”

EDIT: I thought they were supposed to have been surprised by the takeover.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000156459015006678/wmih-10q_20150630.htm

Thanks Uncle Bo,.. a cover their a$$ document for not knowing how much was going to be left over.

With a lower case "a"


This is the one that makes it clear that it was just a first payment. Thanks JWW.

I think he was making a statement by being there that day...knowing it was going to go under seal...knowing we would be guessing for years what is actually in it...I think he was trying to tell us, "this is big"...hang in there...and I think most of us have.

Any of the others could have delivered the "document"...so, again..

BK-S, now you are grasping at straws.

You know exactly what AZ was insinuating.

POR6 / POR7, little difference other than equity was invited in.

Actually we broke the door down.

thanks scriven;

That is the nuts and bolts that we argue for and others argue against. No one knows. There are those that wanted this little 140M company instead of billions in cash...and it ain't the NOL's. JMO

A good addition indeed. eom

So, this looks like WMIIC is already consolidated… so why not eliminated?





If WMIIC is an empty shell…why file for relief?



Access to WMMRC, but not WMIIC?... Maybe because WMIIC filed separately?... It is interesting they did that. Why didn’t WMMRC file separately?...why did WMI carry WMMRC through the BK, but wanted WMIIC to go through separately?

Just questions with no answers. Yet, to me, the biggest question…where is the acquisition?…there has been more then ample time for that…if they were serious about a different company, the hedgies would have had a few candidates lined up 6 years ago to take action once the waiting period was over…and,… because of no action on an acquisition, I have to agree with AZ.

WMI Holdings Corp. (“WMIHC”) is a holding company organized and existing under the law of the State of Washington. WMIHC, formerly known as Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”), is the direct parent of WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc. (“WMMRC”), a Hawaiian corporation, and WMI Investment Corp. (“WMIIC”), a Delaware corporation. As described below, WMIHC is a successor to WMI, as and to the extent described in the Plan (defined below).

Not sure what this means then. Was WMI in Delaware pre BK, and then back to Washington state post BK?

I have been wondering the same thing. Is it because they were incorporated in two different places?

If so,..why were they in two different places?

My first thought was how much it may have stirred the pre-holders who did not release and what they might try to do about it.

Yes I wonder...in a good way. As AZ once said; These guys are world class.

Wow, great question. Can't pierce the corporate veil...so...it looks like they wanted to file for BK.

But...oops too many assets...time for hide and seek.

BK,I will try again.

BK,…..We all perceive things in different ways…and sometimes no answer can be satisfactory. I perceive no response to the above as…you don’t know…or… you know, but choose not to say. That is ok with me. I have seen this…

http://apps.cnbc.com/view.asp?country=US&uid=stocks/summary&symbol=WMIH

WMIH Corp., formerly WMI Holdings Corp., is a holding company. The Company is the direct parent company of WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc., (WMMRC) and WMI Investment Corp., (WMIIC). The Company has limited operations other than WMMRC's legacy reinsurance business, which is being operated in runoff and has not written any new business, as of December 31, 2014. WMMRC is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Company and a pure captive insurance company. The Company operates WMMRC's business in runoff mode and is engaged in seeking acquisition opportunities across an array of industries. The Company's wholly owned subsidiary WMIIC does not have any assets or operations, as of December 31, 2014.

…so, I say you are correct on what you have stated. But,…It is 6 months later now and everything seems to be packaged up in Delaware… and… as of yet, I have not seen what, or how much,… or… how much of what… went to where? of these WMIIC assets and securities.

Show us a “document” of the assets held in WMIIC “before” liquidation occurred. I have seen where you provide every other type of info…except this particular document…Is it redacted…is it under seal…?

At this point you can avoid argumentation with others if you can account for the value of securities/investments that was in WMIIC and how it was dispersed.

Again…no response or an “I don’t know” is ok with me…because there are things that occur that are not documented or at least in documents we may not see for many years…or ever.

BK, WMIIC held a variety of securities and investments

So……., after doing a little looking I do see that WMIIC seems to be an empty shell…at least for now. You have a lot of info…does that info also take in where these securities and investments went to.

Maybe some went to creditors?,… But I don’t think it would be a stretch… if it is/was a massive amount… to be dumped somewhere to get through the reorganization.

Don’t forget the un-capped preferreds…

Yeah, I know…conspiracy theory…but there is truth to many conspiracy theories.

The FDIC took down a solvent bank, and for the times illegally I might add. I don’t think it would be beyond the realm of possibility for them to help empty the coffers of WMIIC (hidden) to help clear up this fiasco.

So if you have any info… on the securities and investments held and where they went. Mucho appreciado

As of September 26, 2008 (the “Petition Date”), the date WMI filed a voluntary petition for relief under Chapter 11 of Title 11 of the United States Code (“Chapter 11”) in the Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (the “Bankruptcy Court”), WMIIC held a variety of securities and investments.



All of the banking assets of WMI were sold to JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. (“JPMC”) by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (“FDIC”) prior to the Petition Date

To liquidate just means to settle accounts by distributing assets...so...we still have WMIIC...somewhere... since the banking assets went to JPM prior to the petition date.

BF- I am with you on that one, but that would expose the culprits…we can’t have any of that…If anyone has gone to jail for the 2008 fiasco it has just been a lowly fall guy. The power players have the money to buy their freedom.

But you already know that.

They were trying to tell us something in the old “Network” (I think made in1976) movie.

Thanks, and Fishman conveniently happened to be on a plane at the time.

AZ Cowboy - Liquidating Trust: The Liquidating Trust will receive, manage, and liquidate all assets belonging to the Debtors that are not directly distributed to creditors under the Seventh Amended Plan, apart from the assets allocated to the Reorganized Debtor. These Liquidating Trust assets include potential litigation claims that have not been resolved (by settlement or otherwise) against a number of entities and individuals who may have contributed to WMI' s failure, including accountants and underwriters. Distribution of any money obtained as these assets are liquidated will follow the priority scheme in the Bankruptcy Code, and creditors will be made whole before any money can be distributed to WMI preferred or common shareholders.

"assets belonging to the debtors" I'm guessing this is the WMIIC you are referring to...among other possible assets.

es1, did you read Tanja’s post #427710 giving credit to AZ. Not sure if that’s exactly what you are asking for.