I appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

But, if it is ruled lp written to zero because the govt is deemed paid, doesn't that solve the issue of sp/lp?

But then maybe you might think if that happens, they might try and pursue warrants?

Isn't it still possible for lp written to zero AND warrants untouched?

I'm looking for possibility not probability because probabilities for outcomes differ between us all.

What would govt reasoning be for use of warrants if LP ordered to zero?

Compensation?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Conviction in what you do is key.

Although it differs, we all hold conviction on our speculation.

Yes, I do appreciate that too.

You are failing to understand that even if there isn't a legal basis for the govt to NOT do something it doesn't mean the opposite is true.

So there is NO legal basis to NOT do something.

Doesn't mean.

There is a legal basis to do something.

I didn't see anywhere that it is required by HERA or anywhere else that THE GOVT MUST EXERCISE WARRANTS AND CONVERT ALL INFLATED LIQUIDATION PREFERENCE AMOUNT OF SENIOR PREF. SHARES TO COMMON.

AND. ALSO CONVERT JPS TO COMMON FOR 100% PAR OR MORE. AND WHATEVER ELSE.

If it says they must then I'm surprised any shareholders made it to court. When HERA was written that specifically and explicitly.

I know more money is more money and technically the govt still hold the power, BUT nothing is certain.

The govt, my opinion, wants the power and will drag this out until forced to do otherwise. And when doing so, most likely doesn't convert sp, and a decent chance of also not using warrants. My opinion and speculation. Our OPINIONS both are still true until this ends.

If you are right. This system is corrupt, but YOU got paid.

If I am right. Well, the system is still corrupt, but WE ALL got paid.

If there is a link or text I haven't seen, please share. I'll say "holy crap, I was wrong" , but until then.....


P.s.

Thanks G, for court filings posted on your site. Really helpful. And I enjoyed that short clip of you running with the flag, high fiving a guy you passed. I'll admit it. I grinned.

Maybe you can say a straight answer, but with the commentary and opinions that differ often from one another on this board, it is sometimes hard to sift through.

I don't always find the exact answer to my questions in the mix of postings here.
But, since it was easy for you to provide, I now have an answer. So thank you.

Not everyone knows or understands this mess, including myself. And for those that do, I appreciate their feedback.

Thanks again for responding.

Are you still holding all you purchased or have you been adding?

Trading around a core? Or just a swing trade for you?

Can't help my curiousity, but I am intrigued by your optimism. You said indicators, correct? So not news catalyst?

Thanks for a response.

You and me both.

Some said she will act
Some say she will just rubberstamp all.

I don't know. This back-and-forth with courts and legal language is exhausting.

Hard to get a straight answer. I guess no one ever accused the courts and legal system of being efficient.

We'll see.

Thanks. That makes more sense.

I was referring to a suggested settlement by Angel(I believe is the name).

I was under the impression dividends are suspended when debt is owed and company is undercapitalized. Especially when undercapped, we have seen other companies cut or suspend dividend payout.

I was asking, hypothetically, if Angel's $18B grab could even be gotten without acknowledgement of debt repay and while undercap?

Thank you for responding.
Appreciate it.

I hear you, but doesn't sps need to be recognized as paid AND gses capitalized at least to a certain point to expect dividend payout? Especially from that far back (2013)?

Thank you for responding.

No 18B settlement if govt says they haven't been paid.

Debt first has to be paid (sps)
Then
Recap
Then
Profits through dividend resuming (not before right?)


So giving 18B, would mean they have been paid and we are fully capitalized.

So $301B + that was sent to govt was for debt repayment and recap.

So in other words......The Secret Plan. Wiseman was right.

Otherwise no money is awarded.

That's what it sounds like. Please feel free to enlighten me. Always ready to learn.
Especially how back dividends get paid out while still claim $200B+ debt unpaid and massively undercapitalized.

I'm serious when I ask for a clear explanation to this settlement proposal.

If different from what I stated, please explain how settling $18B award without acknowledgement of repayment and being undercap.

I'll check back in the a.m.

Thanks for any responses.

Your welcome. And I too share an interest in the case against CFPB. So much opportunity for all sides to benefit from a beneficial ruling. And I continue to wait and see where we are headed next. I've always believe even more important than money to govt was power over housing. Unless backed into a corner or ordered to act on settling this matter, they are happy to leave things as is.

You, I, and others all eager for this to resolve. Even with losing much faith in this judicial system, I still have odds it turns in our favor. If I believed otherwise I wouldn't own any.

Thanks for responses and your contributions as well.

Your welcome.
Gb provides this info and I appreciate that.
I thought I'd share it here. As you do the same. So your welcome Guido. And thanks Glen.

Glen link filed by p's

https://t.co/R8BIcBH0SA

Thank you Guido. Helpful and courteous as usual.

Your welcome. I'll give credit to gb for posting lots of documents and court info. The articles not so much a fan, but credit for the updates.

But, yes, all sealed? Hmmm.
Interesting.
I'd be shoving my evidence and proof in everyone's faces. Saying, "I told you so".

Yet very secretive. And for good reason as we already know.

Please tell me what he said.

Pleeeaasseee.

But...
No I cannot dispute.

Glen's link fhfa

https://t.co/hPy8knpoIt

I have the same problem when posting. I always have a disclaimer stating it's my opinion. Still I get feedback about my opinion being wrong. You read my mind. "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"

Disclaimer* not an attack on FF. And this post is in my opinion.

Thanks.

Yeah, when NavyC mentioned maxine had said they had been paid back I wanted to look it up. Thanks to him and others for providing useful information.

Thanks to you as well.

Mad max interview snippet.

Maxine Waters: ‘We are a long way’ from Fannie, Freddie reform
Published: July 9, 2015 at 4:20 p.m. ET
By Ruth Mantell


MarketWatch: The U.S. economy and the housing market seem to be recovering without replacing Fannie and Freddie. Since Congress is divided, what’s wrong with keeping the status quo?

Waters: The discussion continues about Fannie and Freddie. There are those who say let’s keep the status quo. And, of course, there are those who say that there have to be some reforms in Fannie and Freddie.


Of course, Fannie and Freddie look pretty good. Not only have they been performing well, but they have paid back all of the money to the Treasury and they continue to earn money. So that makes them look very, very good.

I believe that it is important to have something in place that will ensure that we have a secondary market, something in place to ensure that we are able to provide homeownership opportunities for the average person who is working every day and who can afford to pay a mortgage, people who have demonstrated that they pay their rent on time, they pay their utilities on time.

We cannot leave them to not be eligible for support from something like Fannie and Freddie. So I’m not supportive of those who say the private market can do all of this.


MarketWatch: So you are not ruling out, for instance, keeping Fannie and Freddie in something close to their current form?

Waters: Personally, I don’t rule out anything.

MarketWatch: If home prices fell, if mortgage defaults went up, with Fannie and Freddie unable to keep and maintain a certain amount of capital, doesn’t that mean that eventually that they will have to draw from the Treasury?

Waters: No. As a matter of fact, when you started this conversation, you talked about the recovery in the housing market and how well Fannie and Freddie were doing. I like that conclusion. That’s how we see it.

We see that there is a need for housing in this country. As a matter of fact, I was recently just reminded by my staff that there is a need for about 8 million new housing units and 43,000 of them are in my district alone.

I think the housing market needs to be serviced and that Fannie and Freddie appear to be able to do that. I don’t anticipate Fannie and Freddie accruing such debt that somehow they are going to be in the position where they have to borrow money from the Treasury.



Yet here we still are. Goodnight.

Agreement ugolett-my-fnf-go lied.

But isn't it interesting how gb acknowledges that, because if that comes out and produces a favorable ruling due to ugoletti lying then how does that not produce a positive outcome for common holders? How proof and ruling in shareholder favor that ugoletti lied while still talking about sp conversion?

Wouldn't ugoletti lying followed up with positive ruling remove any talk of sp conversion from gb or any other?

Or am I missing something?

Thanks.

Maybe you can help, but scotus saying nws is legal was based on a legitimate c-ship. So if c-ship is later revealed, officially, to be a fraud, then anything done within that fraud action is void.

So for now nws okay if c-ship is legit.

But revealed c-ship is not legit, then nws is not okay. Right?

Another question. Why would anyone expect a ruling to receive back dividends if gov is claiming to never have been paid. Wouldn't ruling back dividends to be paid out imply gov has been paid? How do some claim gov hasn't been paid while expecting back or current dividends? No one gets dividends while gov debt is still outstanding.

To be clear, I know they have been paid and dividends are owed, but as it stands it seems that some posts I read contradict themselves. Arguing that sps be converted to pay gov means they haven't been paid and if not paid then no one outside of treasury gets paid.

Also why would trump letter talk of theft socialism, scam, and travesty but want the gov to be paid twice on the sps and again with warrants? At best he referred to gov stake through warrants alone.

Trump saying theft implies money wasn't taken when it shouldn't have been. Meaning you (treasury) took more money than it was owed, meaning they have been paid what they were owed, meaning gov isn't owed that debt anymore. So excess money should be returned or at the least debt considered paid.

Now his call for warrants is wrong, but I still appreciate that letter and will cross the warrant bridge when we get to it.

Thoughts Guido or anyone else with some insight?

Thanks

I do remember seeing Ackman's valuation, but never that additional information added by that poster. Thanks for providing.

Thanks for that response. Interesting take. We'll see if any others care to chime in.
Again, I appreciate the feedback.

Serious question.

If .75 / share is the true value.
That puts total market cap of both companies at $1.35 Billion roughly.

So here's the question:

Where do 100's of Billions come from companies only valued at $1.35 B?

And...
Please show your work.
I'm actually interested in your math.

Disclaimer. I believe FnF are $360 B + MC.
Even with total theft I believe $5/$6 Pps.
I don't believe it ends up that low. My thought. We'll see someday.
Just been real curious on the math of others.
Thanks for responses.

Scotus was garbage, but they are nothing. This is far from over. 99% dilution aint happening. 0% dilution is more likely than thoughts over total theft of 99.9 % of common equity. Nothing is impossible, but that massive dilution scenario seems pretty close. This stock is tradeable, but I'm just holding not trading.

Zeroing out of LP was also a remedy. Seeing as how they got original money and then stole money. Funny a win to some folks is to let the fraud c-ship, where massive amounts of money was taken, come to an end with having the govt take all that money a second time over.

And you'd call that a win?

I guess as long as your jps is fine then theft is okay. Anyone arguing for conversion, warrants, and massive cap raise to settle this c-ship is not an advocate for justice. They're complicit in the theft.

Disgusting to have lawyers, politicians, or anyone else call for more theft.

Bittersweet. I believe it to have a much better ending. I just don't know when.
This admin wants the power not the money.
Unless forced, they'd keep it status quo.

Imho

Thanks to you and Guido for information and additional links provided. I just sent a follow up e-mail to pass it along.

Thanks I attached that with kelly lawsuit and trump letter. Sent it with a long email message to someone who might make a video or presentation about it. I figured why not. Can't sit and do nothing. It's not me. Hopefully I didn't mess up what I was trying to say. Here is what I sent.

This one is so important. It must be brought to light and you would be the man for the job.

It has become known as Fanniegate.
It concerns Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac being used as scapegoats for the financial crisis of 2008 to set the stage for not just a cover up of bad business practice of TBTF (to big to fail) banks , but a theft on a massive scale by the U.S. government to profit from Fannie and Freddie's earnings while also heavily influencing housing policy. All the while promoting a false narrative of "bailing out" the greedy companies that caused a global crisis. They, the government along with taxpayers, being the saviors of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

There is so much to say and I don't want to lose your attention. So I'll keep it as simple as I can and let you, with your resources that greatly outnumber mine, to fill in the blanks.

All of this is 100% true with no spin. With evidence including private memos that have come to light, testimony from CEOs and CFOs of FnF, basic math readily available through earnings reports of the companies, and even a book written by one of, if not thee, architect of this fraud. Henry "Hank" Paulson, then treasury secretary, wrote a book, "On The Brink", recounting parts of what had occurred. There is much more evidence, which you will find, including an article written about 11,000 hidden documents that Obama's administration had sealed for "executive privilege".

More evidence lies out there and I believe you and your resources would do a great job uncovering and presenting it to the public so it can be understood. Many lives have been ruined by this mess and the story needs the attention. Truth and justice. No more lies and theft.

Britney Spears' consetvatorship may have started for the right reasons but took a bad turn and she was taken advantage of and look what happened and for how long. Look what that took to free her. This "CONservatorship" of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started off based on lies and accounting fraud. It has lasted longer than Britney's and has taken hundreds of billions of dollars through deceit. What once, long ago, was thought to be true, turned into a conspiracy theory, but is no longer a theory. It is a proven conspiracy on a massive scale.

Books were cooked through accounting tricks to make the companies appear financially distressed when they weren't.

F and F were placed into "conservatorship" through deception and coercion of board members to sign over the companies because if they didn't they would be ruined.

SPSPA
Senior Preferred Stock Purchasing Agreements were signed and they included a high interest rate on money given and warrants.
The warrants, if exercised, are worth 79.9% of the companies common stock at a purchase price of 0.00001/share. Basically next to nothing.

Once under control of newly created FHFA, new housing regulator and possible conservator if need be to regulated entities it oversees, empowered through HERA ( Housing Economic Recovery Act) to now take over the companies and run them as it saw fit. First promised to return companies to safe and sound condition and released back to normal and free from c-ship when they were ready, has proven to be a lie. Most decisions that were made did not help the companies but did enrich the govt.

F and F were forced to take money, the "bailout", that was not needed and also forced to agree to pay an abnormally high interest rate.

Roughly $190 billion for both companies. At 10% interest a year through the form of dividend payments. Making it difficult, but not impossible to get out from under.

But.....
Once told by CFO Susan Mcfarland that FnF were entering into a golden age of profitability, the Obama admin had amended the SPSPA with the 3rd ammendment. What is known as NWS, the Net Worth Sweep. Essentially it became known that Fn F would start paying off the principal, and one day be free again. But then Net Worth Sweep (3rd amd) replaced 10% interest a year with whatever money you have becoming the new interest payment. No matter how big the payment, the principal debt could never be paid. The gov't excuse for the NWS was Fannie and Fred were in a "death spiral". Another proven lie used to manipulate.

So to date:

Figures are estimates and for both companies.

Govt forced $190 billion

FnF paid back $301billion
Well over, not just the principal but even over the original 10 % interest by about $27billion.

Also worth noting. TBTF banks were sued and paid settlement money to FnF for the bad mortgages. And that money was also taken away.

Still the govt claims to hold
$190 billion in Senior Preferred debt
+ Warrants still outstanding

Actually, the liquidation preference on the SP shares have increased the debt being claimed. A couple years back FnF were allowed to finally retain money, because the first $301 billion was sent to treasury before Fannie and Fred could retain earnings for capital regulation requirements. The govt and FHFA saw fit to add whatever money was retained and not sent to treasury to be added to the tab. Increasing the LP (liquidation preference) on Senior Pref. Shares.
Now its $190 billion + $75 billion.

Roughly $265 Billion LP + Warrants79.9% of the companies.

All held over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Companies worth about $300 - $400 billion trade at a market cap of around $1.5 billion on the OTC exchange which is pretty much unregulated for about 14 years. Fair market value should and would be about $200+ /share trade instead as I type at .78cents/share.

All the while a media blackout on the subject, with lies still being spread, courts and judges looking the other way. Kicking the can and keeping these companies in limbo.

If anything is mentioned about the companies, it is more of the same lies with talks of more theft through 79.9% warrants exercised to common shares followed by $265 billion conversion of Senior Preferred to even more common shares and followed up with a capital raise through a secondary offerring of even more common stock. Most likely being sold to the TBTF banks. The real culprits responsible for the mess will be rewarded. With talks of how the new admin can use the windfall of money on their housing agenda. All very sickening. The companies and true owners have been wronged and have no voice. Not every person who was and is invested are rich and greedy. I, like many others, aren't wealthy and definitely not greedy. We are average people who believed in these companies and what they do. So we invested hard earned money into them. We were fed lies and taken advantage of. Things need to be set right.

Important to note is that written in HERA is that the FHFA cannot be subject to judicial review for any decision they make and they don't even have to act in the best interest of the companies they are conserving. That leaves a lot of power to the FHFA, doesn't it?



There is much more to this and you will find it. I have attached a lawsuit that was recently filed that helps explain even more. Plus a few attachments I could find.

Link to memos /emails

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2839971-Fannie-Mae-and-Freddie-Mac-Unsealed#document/p19/a295916

2 items attached
Lawsuit Kelly
Trump letter

Thank you for your time.
M I A

Can someone tell me where to find those emails or memos regarding what was being planned behind the scenes. They were recently shared, but I don't seem to find the post. Thank you.

Yes.

6 weeks for that decision. What an easy job.
Thanks for posting Guido.

FNMA & FMCC are worth well over $300 billion

That's why gov and tbtf want them.

But it's funny that when discussing common shareholders, we are told companies are worth about $1.5 billion because we trade on otc in the 80cent range.

Then are told that there is gonna be a massive conversion and payday of sp and jp holders worth $250-$300billion.

Where is this money extracted from when two different numbers are chosen at times to fit a certain narrative?

How will jp, sp, and new investors cash in and get $300 billion from $1.5billion? And also none of them get diluted?

Serious question, even though I know the answer. Just like to hear an explanation if someone will provide.

Thanks.

C-ship is B.S.
But......
Gov can do whatever they want.
Gov can simply dilute to hell the common, not jp of course.
Gov can get away with it all because of corruption.
So....
Lets not just let them do it, but incentive them to do it.
So...
I can be paid faster and say "I told you so."


Or....

C-ship is B.S.
And...
Gov can do whatever they want.
Gov can simply do the right and ethical thing and restore value to all.
Gov can get away with it because this is the U.S.A. not a 3rd world.
So...
Lets pursue this course of action and advocate for them to do this.
So...
We all can get paid and sleep better at night knowing that a large scheme like this didn't go unchecked.

100 % commons
Good fortune to all.

190ish "bailout" paid from 301b = no debt =
lp writedown + no warrants(if collateral) but....

110ish overage/theft paid over 190ish
"bailout" paid from 301b = gov's "profit/roi" = no warrants (if wts considered gift for "bailout")

Ruling/saying debt paid to gov and profits made by gov, especially if they don't refund any money, is logical, simple, and solves problems, and requires gov to save face. The gov wouldn't be giving anything. Just not taking anymore from holders.

Jp still get par. Common might still face some dilution from cap raise, true. But we would not be 10 cents or $2.

And who knows, maybe they waste so much time we need little to 0 money raise because of earnings retention.

Anyone care to crunch the #'s. I'm guessing you'll be pleased.

This whole cship is bs, and should all be undone with proper evidence made available in court, competent attorneys and uncompromised judges.

But, should doesn't really mean much to the wrong people.

Gov saves face, what little left they have.
Keeps all stolen money.
Gives nothing.

Only has to be stopped from taking more. Nothing is exchanged. Just rule treasury is squared away. And there you go. It could happen.

Disclaimer. My speculation. I will never advocate for gov to take more $ from wts or sp. If bs like that happens, it happens. But I don't negotiate with t e r r o r i s ts

Just one thought. Mine.

I don't know how to say why I believe that without it sounding off. That is the trouble for me and the internet. It's hard to convey a point properly for me.

It's many factors, I guess.

Psychology of courts, gov, and others involved.

Public perception.

Lawsuits. Current or future.

The facts. Evidence that is and hopefully presented.

180 better odds than .10
But, maybe there is also compromise (although compromise isn't really fair) but when has this or life been fair.

So to me odds of 12 to 120 are good probability in my mind of fallen.

Further below 12, the bigger the travesty.
Higher above 120, the bigger the victory.

Up to others where they believe this lands.
Just speculation and no matter where this ends up, I wouldn't change my belief or "bet".

I believe this ends in the green for me in even a crappy scenario.

Hopefully, this explains my thought.
If not, I told you I had trouble voicing over the internet.

I didn't say they will do anything.
I said my belief in how this ends.
Some of the things I believe, in my mind, have better odds than others, obviously.
Nothing is 100% certain in life. I just gather evidence in the matter on what I deem important and place my "bet" so to speak.

Example, to me full value $180+ is more likely than .10cents, but that's me and no one has to agree.

True, if I was hoping on gov or anyone doing the moral or ethical thing, I would be more than a little looney.

I'm placing odds in what I believe. I don't know what will happen. Just speculating.

Thanks for your posts by the way. Informative.

I didn't say I thought they (gov) would do anything. I said what I believed would happen. Not wrong or right at this point in my opinion. We'll see how it turns out in the end.

My view and opinion at this moment is nothing has changed.

Sp/lp written to zero because they have been paid already.

Warrants go unused because they have been paid already and massively compensated like a payday lender.

Money gets stacked while courts drag azz.

Maybe wrong, maybe right, not advice.
Just speculation, but right now I'm neither.
We'll see. That's all this is. Placing your money on what you believe is best, based on risk/ reward tolerance. 100% commoner. Good fortune to all commons and jps.

N E V E R M I N D.

You are arguing/debating things that I'm not arguing/debating. If you don't understand what I said or meant then there is nothing more to say.

You mentioned what thompson said.
I said I don't care.
Thompson not caring what I say has nothing to do with anything.

I know he is the lawyer and I'm not.
I still don't care what he thinks or said.

Beliefs and thoughts presented as speculation or opinion cannot be wrong.
Some can turn out to be wrong in time, but that time hasn't come.
So if I believe Sp/lp gone and warrants gone one day, I may or may not be wrong in the future about my speculation. But as of now I am not.
If I believe that I am a good person,time won't change that opinion/belief.

Hope that clears that up, but if not I tried.