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I really think we're putting the cart before the horse here. So far we haven't seen any amazing results to protect. I'll be worried about them protecting their IP once I see what that IP can do. I think the biggest worry and most of the conversation here should be around the product, not what patents they may or may not have, or the whole AMF circus. If there's no competitive product even them having a million patents and being 100% clean of any accusations won't mean anything. If the product kicks ass all the rest will follow, regardless of possible minor bumps in the road.
That's the one that was withdrawn in 08, apparently the technology had advanced and that one wasn't relevant anymore and didn't want to keep paying to have it maintained. They should have two new ones somewhere.
Like I said, I don't disagree there may be SOME things that need to be examined further. But it can't be EVERYTHING, at least some things have to be legit. And really I cannot think of anything at all that has not been, not only brought into question lately, but "proven" to be a complete lie. As far as the patents go I am not an expert in them but it is possible that since they are pending they don't show on some databases. Or maybe they aren't in the names we think they are. Martel did say he would talk to Robert and address this once Robert gets back. I don't disagree it is an important question to answer.
One of the main problems I'm having with what you guys are posting is that there seem to be far far too many scams and scammers involved with the company. It seems like every single shady character in Canada is somehow involved while at the same time every single PR is a lie, every single person and company involved in the product is fake and/or in on the scam, the product doesn't even exist... Really, there is not a single aspect of the company that was not attacked in the last 2-3 weeks. And you come up with some very complex theories, not just details that look a little shady, and present these theories almost as proven facts.
To be perfectly honest I don't think you are completely wrong, there may well be something less than perfect going on there, maybe some numbers and the importance of some people were overstated by the company somewhat. We know for a fact they overstated the completion timelines by huge amounts... And yes their IR contractor was named in an investigation and its very possible he was involved in some bad stuff. So certainly there are things we should look into and watch out for. But there is such a huge distance from some details looking a bit shady (which may well be true for almost any penny) to every single fact and detail about the company being a complete lie. That is just not possible, too much DD has been done on this...
I guess the bottom line of what I am saying is that all of us should focus o some important facts, the things that you think look the worst and are the biggest question marks, not EVERYTHING, that is just not possible and it makes people not take the warnings seriously.
Nice story. What happens if the product is actually successful and competitive? Would the investors do well even if the Hell's Angels are involved?
I feel much better about WDRP too after all these posts. All this interest in it and effort is an almost sure sign it isn't a worthless scam. I'm getting more.
Come on, really, the electric car deal? Everyone here knows that isn't relevant in any way anymore. Even the shares were returned, all done, nothing going on with it, not for years...
Come on, give them a break... Everyone was asking for a response, we would not have wanted him to pay hundreds and wait who knows how many days for a translation.
It's not useless speculation. Technology is not magic, capable of doing anything and constantly and indefinitely improving, it is all 100% based on science. Every technology, no exception, hits a wall sooner or later and no major improvements are possible after that. That may well be the case with heating water using electricity. In this case the laws of physics limit what the very best case scenario is as far as efficiency. And this is completely independent of whatever specific transfer technology is being used. Electricity on one end, heat on the other. You can only have so much heat from so much electricity.
If the company's claims come very very close to the best case scenario allowed by the laws of physics then we have a winner, especially with some extra savings in the way it gets used, lower install, maintenance etc. If their claims are over what is physically possible then it is very likely we have snake-oil.
And anyway, speculation is all we have right now. The company could very easily have released some very rough, preliminary numbers. They chose to release nothing at all, supposedly because this would somehow endanger their intellectual property. It would be great to be having these conversations around some actual provided numbers but we don't have them...
Could you share a few more details about what he said? Andrew's story and how WDRP got together is something that I'm sure is on a lot of people's minds after the AMF deal. Anything about how the product is going? Thanks in advance.
Sounds like a point of use could be possible with 110. Maybe if they also are not able to heat the water much higher than it really needs to be... I'm sure most existing units can go much hotter than they are actually used at 90% of the time. The point of entry could be 220 and the point of use 110. Maybe make the point of use 220 too in very cold climates... At least we know it's not 100% out of the question as far as numbers go.
This one runs on 120V and has no tank.
hand wash heater
It's supposed to be only a hand -wash type thing so probably not enough for a shower. But I think that a unit would not have to be that much more efficient to be good enough for a shower. I think these traditional units need to initially draw more juice to bring the elements to the needed temperature than they need to actually keep the temperature going once it's up. So if the microwave unit has very efficient transfer and doesn't need any more energy initially than during continuous operation then it could easily be good enough... I realize it's not actual math but...
As far as I can tell there are plenty of point of use heaters that work on 110 BUT they all have a little tank, 2.5 to 4 gallon. All the ones that don't have a tank seem to require 220-240...
So if our one has 100% in demand water, with no tank at all, and works on 110 it will really be one of a kind. Honestly, I'm not so sure they can pull that off but who knows, since it would require a little less juice to get up to temperature than conventional ones...
available stuff
You are 100% right that the unit can only do so much with a certain amount of juice. It's the laws of physics. It is almost word for word what I was arguing a few months back. However, that is all true in theory, in practice things may be a little different. An inefficient transfer from a heating element will cause that element to be on at full power for a little while before the user gets the temperature they want and starts actually using the water. A little waste there. Then at the end once the user is done the element still has a good amount of heat in it which slowly leaks out of the unit and is not used. A little more waste. So yes, if they both run continuously the WDRP one will not be much more efficient, if at all, but in a on-off-on-off scenario we can see where there would be a little improvement. Kind of like heating things in an electric oven vs a microwave one, if you keep both of them on all the time and use them for heating stuff they won't be very different but for heating one thing a day the conventional oven will have to be on before you are actually using it and will still have a large amount of energy in it once you are done with it.
The microwave one might also needs less amps, since it doesn't need to get really hot really fast like a heating element, meaning less likely to need new wiring and maybe less waste through resistance of components... Plus, honestly I'm not an expert in microwaves, there may be other things we are missing about them and the way they heat things.
So yes, at this point I don't think they can get much better theoretical efficiency than existing electric units, maybe 98-99% instead of 90-95% for a traditional one, at best. But that, combined with the real life use differences I was mentioning, combined with a good price, easy installation, good reliability, an innovative and green image... Could be a great product.
Will be cheaper to buy, cheaper to install (no venting or 220), cheaper to maintain (no scaling or heating element corrosion) and it will have both a green and hi-tech image, just like hybrids. Every car magazine has said they don't really save you any money yet people buy them in big numbers. And anyway, the worldwide water heater market is big enough to where you don't need an amazing product to do well, a good one is enough. All this assuming it isn't more efficient than existing ones (which is what I was arguing too a few months back) but at this point we're not even 100% sure it won't be more efficient, at least by a little.
Volume's been low all days, not just friday. There's no big sell-off at all. Pretty much what you'd expect at this point. No reason to sell, no reason to buy. And WDRP has never been affected in any way by what the market does. If anything people pulling out of blue chips means more money available on the sidelines.
It is true the company maybe hasn't responded as well as it should have. Then again it was the IR guy that was involved, they were all away or about to go away, not much information was available and they did come up with some answers.
There is absolutely no reason for WDRP to appear in court to defend itself. It was never accused of anything at all. It may or may not have been the VICTIM of manipulation.
Andrew did say he will be appearing before the AMF to deal with the allegations. I don't know if it's a court matter yet.
I'm buying more. And buying back the little I sold. After reading every post for the last couple of weeks I am feeling pretty confident.
It is true WDRP is taking forever to develop this and they did miss a lot of deadlines but nobody can deny big progress has been made since a year ago. More people have been involved, seen the technology, signed contracts etc... Efficiency charts, more patents, Design1st, UL, Belize seeing it, etc etc. And deadlines being missed is common for any new product, especially for a small company without extensive resources. Plus the latest PRs are far more confident and specific as far as timelines go and what they promise.
It is also possible that Andrew was directly or indirectly involved in some manipulation but that is not proven at this point and even if true does not take away from the product itself. Whatever other stuff looks shady from years before as being linked to the Wanderport name is irrelevant. I have seen plenty of penny stocks turn bad and the proof in those cases was FAR more compelling than what is being brought up here. And by far the biggest reason to believe in the stock is the fact there is a huge amount of posting on both sides of the debate. If this really was a worthless scam everyone would just move on. Seen it before. jmo...
The WDRP Scam deepens it seems.
Boiler Room Telemarketers lending Money to WDRP.
Good DD there Lexit.
And it appears Simoneau has a past with these fraudsters too.
jmo
Exactly. False, just like every other statement and person involved with the company. Now we all agree it's a big scam, let's let it go. jmo
Maybe it is because they haven't been issued and they are still pending. I think you should do some more research maybe... Let us know what else you find.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence. And I don't remember any links from you proving there are no patterns. You keep going on and on about that one withdrawn pattern which has been explained here before. It has been replaced by the new ones since there was no point paying to have it maintained. And Robert explained why they are not in his name. Anyway, after the whole Canada "trade ban" deal I'm not getting into another one of these arguments. I was just pointing out that simply writing something down as if it is fact does not make it so. jmo
WDRP is being truthful claiming it has patents.
WDRP DOES have patents.
jmo
So which is it, they spent 66k, they spent no money, which? Maybe they believe in the product so much they work for free and know they will get their reward once it takes off. jmo
They still have a chance to redeem themselves by saying something meaningful before the open. Without that, or with the usual fact-free PRs they come out with... Not going to be pretty. Won't be sub-penny or anything like that but won't go back over 3 either. It's really disappointing that they're leaving us hanging like this. I guess if they don't act like a real company they don't deserve to be one. Sucks that we get burned though.
If it gets to that stage, where there is a product good enough that people actually try to copy it, the pps could easily be 10 times what it is now. At that point we can call it a good investment even if it gets copied. So lets not worry about that for now... Plus, there's always the possibility of a buyout assuming the product is worth copying.
Yes, exactly! How nice would a PR be that explains all the details of the company, something to answer all the "questions" that "well-intentioned" people on this board have. How the company started, what their link was to the people mentioned in the AMF statement, who owns the intellectual property, where the patents are filed, what restrictions there are on Robert selling his shares, what the story is with Gavin, who seems to be a little elusive online, how UMC hopes to increase their size and sales many times over once the product hits the market and so on... Lots and lots of questions to be answered. Basically like an official version of out Ibox.
And yes, before everyone says it's my responsibility to find the information, whatever information we find is not spelled out black on white and can easily be attacked. Like it is being attacked now. This isn't a blue chip that is above suspicion so asking to have some things cleared up is not unreasonable. Maybe not everything but the more the better. Would make the pps jump like crazy and would make this board a much nicer and civilized place to be.
You can always say something like we are definitely investigating, we are taking it very serious. Not just Andrew is great, he's staying, and that probably before even knowing all the facts.
And as far as the product, nothing in forever. If they have something, show it... Instead they give us these fluffy PRs, that a potential order was increased by about 10%. Nobody cares! We care about what is going on with the product. And all the allegations about them being linked to some unsavory people... And the pps reflects that. They could have easily had it at 5-6c right now with just ok news, at 10c with good news...
I do have to admit this Owens guy has a pretty much non-existent footprint on google, for someone so important... Even wanderport comes up far far more...
Come on Wanderport, how about a PR with some actual FACTS in it... Something about the product itself or about the whole AMF mess. And nothing about how things are on track and nobody was charged with anything, nothing about conferences, future contracts etc. Just the product and/or the accusations. It has been forever since we had any actual NEWS, we deserve some. And we need it.
I completely agree, their response so far to this whole thing has been so unprofessional it's almost insulting. They have not addressed any facts whatsoever. Just saying things are ok, nothing else...
But I do think the UL connection and UMC and Owens and all the other people involved are for real.
I don't know... The only thing that matters here is efficiency. Rigging something up where water goes in on one end, microwaves are involved and it comes out warmer on the other end can be rigged up very easily. We all know it would work. Only thing that matters is how much electricity you are putting in and how much hotter the water is. Production costs should be ok, nothing overly complicated involved.
Wanderport was featured PROMINENTLY in their files and on hard drives.
Oh wow, now THERE is a theory! See, you could have gone with that from the start, think big!
Also, there were no computers seized from the company or anything like that. They were not even contacted in any way by anyone.
Yeah seriously what is this Andrew guy, gold plated? Just get a different IR company, at least for a while. It's such a no-brainer. His job is to make the company look good. Right now he is doing the complete opposite, maybe through no fault of his own, whatever, but who cares, he looks bad. Just change the IR, lets put this whole thing to rest, certain people will move to other boards and lets focus on the product. Right now all the news and talk are about this issue, nothing at all on the only thing that matters.
That sums it up really good. EVERYTHING is a lie! They're ALL corrupt! I don't know how all the DD these guys on the board did for two years didn't show that, they must not be very good...
That sounds really good, thank you for taking that trip.
Did he mention what the next steps are, things like are there any more major technical issues to resolve (like the redesigned exchanger), will there be another round of testing by UL or by someone else on a completed product, does it get sent straight into full production or will there be a limited run for some more testing and these kinds of things. Also, do they have any updates from UL at all, since they've already had the prototype a while.
Well yeah, it's on top of a 250 million contract, I think they said 277 with the new numbers... It's not a huge increase at all. And anyway since there is still no finished product it's all a bit like me saying i'll buy 10 space shuttles from my next door neighbor at 500 million a pop, as soon as he builds them. I wouldn't exactly be putting my neck on the line there...
Like I said, I do think it's good news for sure and I do think it is significant. Another person (with a very well established reputation) who is on board is a great thing. But I definitely think they need far far more than that at the moment to get this going again... Like severing ties with Andrew, giving more info about their involvement with the other guys or on the product side some numbers, UL news, etc. Anything less is not going to be enough. And sure enough the pps didn't budge at all.
For the most part I agree, this PR is pretty fluffy. They renewed an agreement they already have and an agreement that doesn't even mean anything at all without a product.
It is definitely good news that Dave Myers believes in the product enough. And the fact it was signed a month ago also means, like I was saying yesterday, that the product and UL testing has had a month to move along and must be more advanced than last PR we had. And they met at the UL labs, meaning talk was focused around the product, since UL has nothing to do with anything else.
However, hopefully this isn't THE pr that they hope to solve this whole Andrew mess. It deals in no way with the allegations and it doesn't say anything major about the product side either.
I think by now it is obvious that either WDRP never traded on any Canadian market (probably nowhere outside the US pinksheets) or if it did, it still does just as before. There is no way there isn't a single person who even knows someone in Canada to confirm a freeze. The AMF document is very clear in naming just a handful of individuals and companies that are prohibited from trading. It would be ridiculous to say EVERYONE, AND these guys can't trade. I also think by now everyone can tell what is going on and can form an opinion as to where everyone else stands and what they want.
Price is holding great, volume is dropping significantly every day, things are becoming a lot more clear about the extent that Wanderport is affected by that report and we have news coming this week. Plus the product and UL testing is a lot further along than at the last PR so there could be news in that direction soon too.