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I hope it goes to 2c. The sooner the better. Not so sure it will happen though. A PR saying the product is done is just around the corner and even if it's fluffy with no numbers and so on nobody will sell at 2c once that's out. Or at 3, or 4...
Even if you don't believe in the company long term these prices make for an easy double flip. We know there WILL be news soon about the product. Regardless if there will be delays after that or even if later efficiency numbers won't be that amazing, in the short run the pps will definitely go up... I'm getting more.
Bought at least 25k every day for a while now. Big news should be right around the corner as far as the product goes. Even if it will take a while longer for full production it's still worth buying right now... I decided I'd let the negative people on the board work to my advantage and pick up the cheapies. I'm at the bid right now, anyone silly enough to sell under 3c, send them this way.
I'm not sure what they'd put in that PR. Maybe a PR once they find a new TA, but before then there's really not that much they can say. I doubt all the other companies affected put out anything either. And apparently they did answer a couple of posters who emailed them about it pretty fast.
Probably busy preparing for his meeting with the AMF :). That's why they should have replaced him, at least temporarily.
Time will tell what happens. At this point I really think we'll know what's what pretty soon, either going way up or way down. From what they said they can't delay releasing a product much longer, unlike the very general PRs they were coming up with one and two years ago. Now they specifically said that as soon as those parts come in they have the completed unit and as soon as they have that they'll send it for testing and even start selling it in markets outside the US. According to Robert the product should likely be ready in less than a week and it's been over a month since the last PR so i'm guessing he hear something soon.
I have no clue... From what I heard/remember they told investors they would be present at the show. It would be silly to just show up there as a visitor, without displaying anything at all. Maybe there would be some benefits to that (I'm not sure how these things work) but it's not obvious to me what they would be. It seems like they would not bother mentioning something so minor. I would assume they will have a booth. I don't imagine it's hugely expensive and if they have the new product by then it's a no-brainer thing to do. If they don't have it then there would be no reason for them to attend, they would just wait for a later show. They haven't mentioned a specific one yet and it may be because they aren't sure which one they will be ready for. If they just planned to attend a specific one just as visitors they would have mentioned it, like they mentioned the Asia one. All this is just guessing, we'll see.
All they need at this stage, at this show, is for people to hear about them, to become interested. Once they show up on enough radars the contracts will come. Even if they don't come at the very conference they'll come as soon as the product is certified and tested by a third party etc. Yes it would have been a bonus to have all the certifications in hand but the fact they don't won't be a major issue at all. And this is jut the first event they attend, there'll be many more. They just need to stop dragging their feet and get it finished.
The numbers obviously have to be REAL, something they can stand behind and actually provide, not what they have now. Come on, you know very well what I was saying. If they have a finished product that they can 100% guarantee gets those numbers for that price, installation costs, warranty etc then yes, not having a real 100% certified and working example on that table will not be a problem at all. All the car manufacturers come up with non-functioning prototypes at car shows and as long as the numbers they give are good everyone gets very excited and orders pour in before the first 100% production ready car has even turned a wheel. Most people don't go on a full test drive at a show. Same exact thing here.
A mock-up with efficiency numbers (even if they aren't third party) is just as good. They may already have all that. They should according to Robert's time estimate. It's not like you can tell how efficient something is by just sticking your hand in the water. Or like someone will take a shower in their show booth. What matters are the numbers and the product being ready for testing soon, not some early prototype like a year ago.
The truth is somewhere in the middle... On one hand it is definitely true that the company have dragged their feet on everything they did while at the same time promising results and timelines that they never came close to reaching. Investors do have a right to be ticked off about how PR was handled. But it is also true that a lot of times PRs have been misinterpreted and turned into negatives and there will always be some posters with questions that have not been directly addressed. It is hard to say for sure how much information and detail we "deserve", since nobody is forcing us to invest.
I really hope they come out with a PR about where they are with finishing the product. If they wait until they have third party numbers, by then the pps could be much lower and the starting point for the run might be much lower. A 500% run from 3c takes you much higher than a 500% run from 0.5c.
Of course it's completely WRONG. Remember, everything about the company is, no exceptions.
Good advice there. You'll hate yourself if you held for two years and get out a month before it gets good. But you'll hate yourself ten times more if the reason you got out was listening to some of the "theories" on this board. Yeah the company took forever to do anything and they haven't handled PR nearly as good as they could have but that doesn't mean they don't have a kick-a$$ product on their hands.
According to the timeline Robert gave they should be done next week or around there. How soon they release a PR is hard to tell, they might want to do more testing and things. But the longer they wait the better the stuff in the PR will be.
Woo, 4c, on half a mil volume. Some people won't like that :)
I don't know exactly what makes their product different from other microwave water heaters. Whatever it is that makes it better than other designs and makes it an actual usable, competitive product that's what they should patent, that's their IP, of course... There obviously were other people out there with the general idea to heat water with microwaves because after all that's not that big of a leap, everyone knows microwaves heat water. Even so, there are currently no widely available water heaters that use microwaves, meaning the people that came up with the idea ran into various problems. Assuming WDRP brings one to market that would mean they overcame those problems. The solutions to those problems are their IP.
The bottom line is nobody will be in a hurry to copy this thing unless it is a great product, efficient, cheap, reliable, easy to install etc. If that is the case there MUST be things that make it so good, that would be their IP. If it isn't good then no worries anyway because nobody will try to copy it.
And as I said before, if they really have nothing at all in terms of product development it still would not be that hard for them to make up some patent and submit an application. It would mean nothing...
I think if there is a competitive, working product there WILL be a patent, or more of them. Why would there not be? They would have to be crazy not to protect their IP. Even assuming they did not file for them yet (which I'm pretty sure they did), they definitely will if the product justifies it. At the end of the day they are the ones with the most to lose.
I don't think people are implying that WDRP has a real product but it just never occurred to them to file for patents for it or they're too incompetent to do it. They are implying there are no patents because it's a scam/lie and no product. What I was saying is that if that was the case they could have easily filed an application for a patent and wave it in everyone's face. Would have gotten way more money out of investors than with their current, super secret, "we don't care what you think we're not revealing anything" approach.
I really don't understand why everyone is focusing so much on this patent issue. As long as we don't have a physical finished product that is by far our biggest problem, not the fact we aren't able to locate some patent. Assuming this was a scam how hard would it be for them to put together a patent application for a device that heats water using microwaves. Maybe add some technical stuff in there about chamber shape, cooled magnetrons, etc etc and there is no way a patent office can prove or disprove just on paper that a device will heat water efficiently and competitively. They'd show everyone the patent, everyone would be happy, pps would go way up, they could issue more shares and so on. The bottom line is without an actual working competitive product a patent doesn't mean anything at all, it's not proof of anything. The only proof is third party efficiency numbers. If anything, I would say it's an encouraging sign they are keeping it so secret, makes it more likely they have something they want to protect. Robert has had patents before, at least the 7 that were found, he isn't some guy from the street... And anyway, with less than a month to go until we have a finished product and until the AMF hearing the patent is not the most important thing right now.
I didn't say anything at all about stock manipulation. Just that worst case scenario he sold the shares he got as compensation at the right time, which yes, is a little bit iffy. Even then, since there hasn't been any major bad news in their PRs (any bad news at all really) as far as selling goes he would only benefit by selling AFTER the PRs. And any of us can do that anyway... If he would have sold a lot right before some bad news came out then maybe that's a problem. I really don't see anything major here, as far as him selling shares, at least not with the information we have...
Most commonly when people use the word trade they mean buy and sell. Not only that but generally it is considered to be short term. Long term would be investing I guess... I do think there is a big difference between buying and selling a lot while being in possession of insider info and just selling shares given as compensation.
That said, I do agree with you that if Andrew had a number (possibly a big number) of shares to sell and had no restrictions as to when he sold them that would be a question mark and would definitely not be considered a fair practice. In this particular case their PRs are so fluffy that they rarely make the price go way up but still, there could be some money to be made by timing it right. I'm sure that will be addressed in the AMF hearing. If he's guilty he'll go his separate way, end of story.
If he had no restriction on when he could sell shares my guess is they did that since maybe they could not afford to pay him a proper full time salary and they looked the other way while he did some light insider selling... :)
Finally got around to listening to the CC. Pretty good in my opinion, definitely makes me feel better about the company. Not a game changer in any way but some good details covered.
Only thing that was a little strange was Richard said only Andrew is barred from trading, nobody else. I'm fairly sure the AMF document clearly states the company and all it's officers are also barred, at least in whatever jurisdiction the AMF has...
The main reason I feel better about things is that they seem to have backed themselves into a corner (in a good way) as far as the product goes. It sounds like it should be fully done in two months at most, possibly less than one, without too many possible delays. This isn't what they were saying a year ago. It sounds like there will still be a lot of testing and stuff after that but at least things will be moving much faster. Also, Robert kept saying all the efficiency numbers will come from third party labs, not the company itself, which is a good sign to me. Once there are third party efficiency numbers out (good ones of course) for a finished product, WDRP is a BUY regardless of any minor hiccups, delays and things that don't look perfect.
Another thing is it's pretty hard to see how this can be a scam. There is no dilution of any sort, there can't even be any significant insider trading on the tiny volume we see most days and from what they're saying the product should be finished, tested and for sale (at least outside the US if not inside too) by the time Robert's shares become available. If by then we have a real, competitive product then he deserves his money anyway. So I don't see where they can be making significant amounts of money out of this, especially to make it worth them sticking at it for years...
I'm not jumping in heavy until we get some better news but I'm definitely picking up more on any dips and keeping money ready. jmo of course...
I personally do not think the event was negative in any way. I am mostly positive about the company, I am long and have spent a good amount of time countering the attempts to bring the price down. I just really really want to know what was said and could not call in on such short notice. The only thing I was sort of questioning is the fact that they didn't even give a couple of days notice. I can't think of a good reason for that. There is nothing urgent that happened today or yesterday. Also, even if they do it on such short notice they could have posted a transcript or a recording. Doing neither of those things will just give the negative nellies on the board ammo, just wait until tomorrow, when the pps goes up and they get squeezed, the fact that the CC was blitzed like that will be all they will talk about. Plus a lot of longs didn't get to hear/read it...
Yeah same here. I would really really appreciate a transcript or at least some summary of some sort. I don't get why they waited weeks without really addressing anything and then only gave like 3 hours notice for a CC. I'm sure participation would have been far far greater if they had given people a couple of days notice. It could almost be labeled insider information if not made public...
I would add a question about the patents to that list.
Also, I really really hope some form of transcript or at least someone's notes will be posted... There are plenty of investors who will be missing it. Otherwise the fact that this is so short notice will just serve to give the negative posters ammo...
Anybody know where the transcript/recording will be posted? With only a couple of hours notice and during business hours I'm sure plenty of interested people won't make it or even know about it.
I do agree Andrew is much more involved with what's going on than the average IR rep, at least it looks that way. And I think we all agree their PRs have been fluffy and they missed their timelines by miles.
I think the bottom line is nobody can prove beyond any doubt that it's not a scam. Yes, it could be... But with the information we have up to now that doesn't seem probable, only theoretically possible. Hopefully today's conference sheds some more light into things. I am really looking forward to the transcript.
It specifically says computers were seized from one (maybe two...) of the other companies involved, not Wanderport or any of the officers or other parties involved with it. Not even Andrew. Whatever is found on computers outside the company may at the worst prove they were the target of manipulation, not the perpetrators. If the AMF believed the company itself was directly involved they would have seized their computers too, or at least contacted them in some way.
You know very well that the report was very detailed as far as what each party did, including statements from investors and so on. The other guys are mentioned in plenty of places and plenty of detail. Andrew is mentioned very briefly and in a vague way but still, he is (sort of) accused of possible manipulation. There isn't a single sentence in there, in all the 40 pages, that mentions anything about the company being directly involved in anything shady. Again, feel free to provide proof, not just opinions.
Unfortunately I am at work... I suppose it's too late to schedule it for after work... Will there be a recording or transcript available? It's still not as good as being able to ask questions but its a million times better than nothing...
Sometimes even if you really want to get rid of that person you can't, not immediately at least. I have seen that first-hand and it involved a LOT of evidence gathering and a long time until the person could be asked to leave even though the allegations were more serious and more clear than in this case.
I do 100% agree they should not have praised him and should have taken a much more aggressive position towards investigating the whole deal and being prepared to do what's right. Or at the very least giving investors that message.
As far as the PRs go, yeah it's obvious they PRed stuff that didn't happen, or took much much longer, and not just once. It seems pretty unlikely that they genuinely didn't realize how long things would take. But I doubt Andrew releases what information he wants and when he wants, that would be pretty crazy, but who knows...
The biggest problem with WDRP is right now the same as what has always been their biggest problem... dragging their feet on the product. I was really pessimistic about their promises a year and a half ago but even I was sure they'd be done by now... Without a product the stock will do worse and worse regardless of how well they address all the allegations about patents, Andrew and so on. With a product these things will be small potatoes. It will be a given that they would get patents, assuming they don't already have them, and some (possible) minor manipulation in the past won't be a big deal... I wonder why it is taking so long, not just this month but the past two years.
Again, there is a huge difference between "named" and "accused". Also, please provide proof.
What specifically has the company been accused of? Please provide a quote from the AMF document or any other document, not just an opinion. "Named" and "called upon to defend itself" are two very very different things. The first is true, they were named as the possible TARGET of manipulation, the second is not, as far as we know.
Andrew did hire an attorney and WDRP has not been charged with anything at all so it's not clear why they would even need one... Andrew is a contractor, the company is not responsible for what he does. It's like someone from the cleaning crew at, let's say Ford stealing from the company and the company needing a lawyer just because they were named as a victim in the report...
You obviously have much more of an interest in this stock and spend much more time on this board, post much more and do much more research than the average long here. Certainly much more than me. You are definitely in the best position to provide an answer to these questions by contacting them. Especially since they are your own questions...
1. I would question if really the patent itself was what attracted most investors. The technology yes, not the paper itself. At that point two years ago I doubt anyone was worrying about the technology being copied when probably not even a drop of water had been heated.
2. There is a big difference between a company slightly glossing over bad facts, inflating the good ones and generally making themselves look good and it outright being a scam. WDRP has certainly made itself look better than it really is, I think we all agree and yes technically that can be seen as manipulation. Really, the entire purpose of a PR machine is stock manipulation... I never said I don't have a problem with it, I was saying that if I would avoid every penny that does it I'd never invest in one. It's something we just have to put up with. Still a very long way to go from there to saying the whole thing was 100% manipulation and they have no patents and no product.
3. I never said there is no problem at all with the company. Before the whole AMF thing started I spent a lot more time questioning things than I did praising them. As far as the investigation goes I don't think that Simoneau and Martel pumped the company or did anything illegal. Or for that matter anyone at all linked with the company, other than possibly Andrew. Not only nothing was proven, but nothing was even suggested.
4. When I said the stock is manipulated I meant from the outside, which is what the investigation was alleging too. At least mostly from the outside, other than what I was saying in (2.).
Bottom line is any penny will try to make the hand they have appear the best possible and they will exaggerate facts more than a blue chip. That does not automatically mean they are intentionally scamming investors.
Lol no way, a manipulated penny stock? Stop the presses, this is big news. Technically they did hold a patent on the technology, it just hadn't been maintained. We don't know what they had and when, I really do hope they clear that up, they said they would.
Either way the fact still remains that if the product is a flop whether they had patents or not won't matter for most investors. Yeah, sure maybe some people will get into some minor trouble for PRing stuff that wasn't 100% true but it won't help us much. If the product is a great success nobody will dig years into the past to see exactly when what was filed, they'll be too busy counting money.