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~ Sometimes, Yes That Is Correct ~
There are Active Trusts Operating as subsidiary's of WMIH-Corp (fna; WMI Holdings Corp.) ... and then there are also Active Operating Trusts, that were originally participated in, the reason for the First protective BK Filing, ... WMI Investment Corp. ... (WMIIC, filed @ 10:15pm, just one minute ahead of WMI's filing @ 10:16pm, ... slick')
The WMI-LT was a product of the WMI I, reorganization, ... registered as a Delaware Grantor's Trust, ... defined as a Pass-Through Trust (the reason you needed to submit taxing information with your class releases, prior to Feb 8th, 2012' ...
In My Own Opinion ? ... it has been active members, hirelings, or simple drones, that have been utilized by private equity' ... in attempts to discourage and sway the people' from the true reality' of what has been at stake regarding a true Return on your Investment' ...
Nothing' was ever going to be able to move forward in any meaningful financial manner, ... not until the FDIC and JPMC releases, which were imbedded within the "dual tracking" WMI II (the WMB Action) litigation, were ultimately completed' ... Now ? as has been publically announced as "Settled"
The "Trust(s)" have continued to perform' ... DB' and the updated FDIC's balance sheet are the proof' of a small portion of them' ...
Now ? ... Class 17' ... the Tranche 5, WMB Bonds' are next up as WMI II's dual tracking litigation, now announced as "Settled" actually finalizes' ... and then, it is back to Judge Walrath's Court and the completion of WMI I, Class 18' ... and then the beginning of the end' ... (finally)
AZ
~ Boris, No I Do NOT Use The Word Capped ~
If quoting me in particular ? ... I would appreciate an attempt at accuracy ... I have never used the word, ... capped ... when referring to an original 03/2012 released Class 19 Security' ...
However, I (firmly) believe that an Original Releasing Class, is limited to its original defining prospectus allowances and the particular Class specified definitions ...
although, truly ruled to be capped' the same applies to a Class 16' ...
A WMB Class 17 Bond ? ... as originally prospectus defined, ... can actually be converted to a common share of its holding benefactor' at its maturity date' ...
A WMI Class 19 Preferred Security ? ... as originally prospectus defined, ... can ALSO' be converted to a common share' ... Think About That Possibility ... ? ... as an original Debtors consideration at the reorganization ... and then carry that consideration forward to the present' ...
However, ... I actually do believe in the Approved and Judges Signed, 02/23/2012 Plan of Confirmation, ... and points 8 & 9' as stated within it' ...
The good news is ... ? ... Now, WMI II is now settled' ...
AZ
~ Sorry Guys, Your Conclusions ? ~
Any conclusions regarding the split distributions being global, from the beginning to the very' end ? ... Are Not based on the factual and documented information ...
Simply saying the same thing over and over again ? ... doesn't change the process, moving forward ... it is what it is' ...
also, being upset with the ... messenger ... ? ... also, doesn't change anything'
AZ
~ Yes, Releasing Class 19 & Class 22 Maintain a Separation ~
... If' ... ? ... a 02/2012' (41.6) Plan 7 Approved, WMI Reorganizational releasing participant, ... actually believes that they' ... are in a position to receive a "Liquidating Trust Interest" ... an LTI' ... (emphasis on the word, Interest in the Liquidating Trust' ... beyond Class 18 ... ? ...
... Then fine' ...
Simply Put ?, ... I DO NOT believe that the issuing of additional LTI's by the LT, ... is neither factually, or mathematically ... Possible' ...
The LT will eventually conclude, and subsequently distribute it's original Court Approved ... left over remains' ... or, the attorney groups will use up all of the leftovers ... the documents do specifically state that these LT' specific RE-Distributions will be distributed at the 75% / 25% ratio, between Class 19 and Class 22 ...
Within a consideration of my conclusions and, In My Opinion, ... this LT ... this Liquidating Trust, ... continues to present this issue in a confusing and distracting manner' ... purposely ...
AZ
~ ItsMyOption, Yes I Agree ~
Actually ? ... I am closely watching the new company (WMIH-Corp) for some sort of a sign that the newco' is in a position to finally move forward in a meaningful manner' ...
With WMI's litigation completed at the 03/2012 reorganization ? ... and WMI II, now announced as settled 08/2016' ? ... Now, as we wait for the Courts final approval ? ... The Claims have now all been addressed and dealt with' ... including, WMI's original claim as it's status as a creditor against WMB ...
If I were to take a guess ? ... I believe we' will have news either just ahead of the shareholders meeting ? ... or, at the meeting itself' ...
Good Luck To Everyone'
AZ
~ So, You Are Drudging This Up Again Why ? ~
Look, ... I studied the WMI Specific Reorganizational, sequenced documents, and I did my best to report my findings' in an effort to help' everyone' in preparation for what ever is planned for the future' ... we' are still inundated with hedge fund participation ... right ? ...
You and a few others are hanging on to the, 1st quarter of 2012' presented propaganda ... including a specific calculator ? no less ? ... that is fine' ... but don't tell me that I'm wrong with nothing more than, wishful thinking, as your reasoning' ...
The Signed Plan of Confirmation is specific ... the specific reasoning for the need for the removal of APR are also defined' ...
... simply put ? ... you are wrong' ... period' ... had a preferred security been Plan 7 earmarked for a global return of all things owned by the Estate ? ... the Preferred securities would have converted to common shares as they are prospectus designed ... turn the page' ... I Know What I Own'
the 75% / 25% simultaneous distribution, is specified to be limited to ... the RE-Distribution of anything that is left over in the WMI-LT, ... and NO, ... there will be no more Interests in the LT, (LTI's) ... issued' ... it has all been a skilled distraction ...
The WMI-LT's main function, is to be utilized as a Pass-Through' ...
AZ
~ ItsMyOption, Yes, I Will Do My Best ~
So First ? I begin with the knowledge of all of the non-stop nonsense that ... we' ... have all put up with, ... by a group of "intertwined" BOD's and WMI-LT representatives' ... their combined silence regarding relevant issues ? is NOT appreciated'
Second, ... I have extensively studied and researched the, WMI II (the WMB Action) dual tracking litigation in Judge Collyer's Court' ... which as stated earlier, the Claims were originally filed on Dec 30th, 2008 and the actual litigation began in March 2009'
Third, ... I done my best to have followed and segregated all of the associated case numbers' ... Both' WMI and WMI II
Fourth, ... DB' had already actually filed with the Court, a request to be allowed to be an "intervenor" in WMI II, (the WMB Action) ... Document # 83 (Pacer) ... and, was specifically addressed by Judge Collyer, and, DENIED their request ... Document # 97' ... and' ... I found her reasoning stated, quite impressive' and interesting' ...
So, that is what I know ? and why I can not understand just how in the heck, DB appears to be inserting itself into a WMI II litigated result, where Judge Collyer, has already denied DB to be able to insert themselves as an "intervenor" (document # 97)
So, these are my reasons for referring to this Cal Probate issue as a "distraction" and that it would or should be considered to be "third party" ...
I hoped that helped'
AZ
~ When WMIH-Corp Moves ? There Will Be NO Questions ~
in my opinion, ... it will be quite obvious that the process has finally started' ...
WMI's, Reorganized' Implementation Date was 03/19/2012' ... and, all of the class participants needed to have their releases submitted in order to participate (41.6) ... all except Tranche 5 WMB Class 17' ... (class 17's releases were brought forward from Plan 6)
WMI II's, Settlement' was publically announced on 08/19/2016' ... and, the remaining releases needed' between the FDIC / JPMC / WMI' ... are now thankfully' ... "settled" ... Judge Collyer needs to complete and, ... "Approve" ...
(documented) Class 17 ... "will have deemed to have "released" as of receipt of their payment"' ...
(documented) The Noteholders' ... "will have deemed to have dismissed with prejudice upon the courts final approval" ...
(documented) The FDIC' is to issue "Receivership Certificates" to ALL WMB Bondholders' ... Class 17' Tranche 5 WMB
AZ
~ Mr Panda, No, I Guess Not ~ Is there certain concern that you have regarding this? In your opinion, does DB probate exit trigger final resolution of the FDIC receivership? I thought last year settlement settles all remaining suits against the FDIC receivership. Am I missing anything else?
... Actually, No' I believe that you are doing just fine' ...
I have also followed the "dual tracking" litigation going on in Judge Collyer's Court for some time now' ... The Original Claims were filed just ahead of the original bar date, ... on, Dec 30th, 2008' ... and then, moved toward the opening of active litigation on March 20th, 2009' ... WMI II (the WMB Action)
In My Opinion ?, ... This particular WMI II (the WMB Action) litigation, opening in D.C in Judge Collyer's Court, became active litigation simultaneously' with the Original WMI (the WMI Action) filed in Judge Walraths' Court, which lead to Filing # 5885, Nov 2010' which described the charges placed against the FDIC, which then lead to the "the Settlement" ...
What I am saying is that, ... what appears to be the intentional distractions, are becoming quite obvious' ... and Yes' ... I do see the "third party" litigation in the Cal' Probate Court as a convenient ... "distraction" ...
The August 19th, 2016 Settlement' ... ? ... appears to have the correct case number' and the correct parties to the settlement' associated with the actual case' which would be, WMI / JPMC / FDIC' ... only' ...
anyone else, would ? or should be considered a "third party" ... as Judge Collyer had actually Ruled' ...
Keep up the Good Work' and Thank You
AZ
~ Mr Panda, A Discussion Question ? ~
Do you have any thoughts on Judge Collyer's original ruling ... To Specifically "Deny" DB's Motion To Intervene ? ... (as referenced, WMI II ... the WMB Action)
Case # Civil Action No. 09-1656 (RMC) ... as, specifically referred to in the 08/19/2016 "Settlement" document
DB's Motion to Intervene ... document # 83'
Judge Collyer's "Denial" of DB's request ... document # 97'
AZ
~ WMI II - or, the WMB Action ~
WMI II which is referred to as the WMB Action, actually began "dual tracking" on December 30th, 2008' ... and' ... has now lead to the August 19th, 2016 publically announced "Settlement"
The March 2012' WMI Reorganizational Class Participants, were given an opportunity to be included in the complete and entire process by a submission of their class releases needed' (41.6)
The WMI II litigation (the WMB Action) also encompasses needed releases to be completed and finalized' ... the releases needed, are to be finalized by the Original Filing Noteholders' ... and' ... as stated, upon a Final Court Approval, will have deemed to have "dismissed with prejudice" ...
On a specific note, ... This doesn't actually involve us' ... we' ... have already provided our own releases in proper fashion' mandated by Feb 8th, 2012' ... we have actually been waiting for WMI II to be completed and the Original Noteholders Litigation, to also be completed' ... (thankfully' the Settlement was announced last August)
Currently, in December, 2016 ... an additional third party filing was submitted, ... again, which doesn't concern us, ... however, ... it is also currently being addressed' ...
This third party litigation, submitted in Dec, 2016' ... involves the Trusts and WMMSC' ... the Trusts are attempting to complete, once and for all, all of the numerous individual legal filings for ... foreclosure' etc, etc, ... that do not have proper and or complete documentation' ...
This third party litigation, will set to rest some 130,000 mortgages, encompassed within the Trusts' with existing document flaws, in one swift final action, ...
Again, this does not actually involve ... us ... specifically' ... this now additional third party litigation involves the Trusts' and their attempt to not be in a position to be held legally responsible for having to now correct well over 130,000 document flawed mortgages' ...
AZ
~ Plan Approved and Court Ordered ~
and' now ? a precedent setting Court Ruling which has been utilized in subsequent cases' referring specifically to Judge Walrath and the WMI now settled Reorganization' ...
~ FJR Interest (ours was plan approved set at 1.95%) ... is to be paid ... "on your claim" ... not to be ... "included in your claim"
(a Class 17 WMB Bond' is deemed to have released upon receipt of its designated return),
Class 17 WMB Bonds all have a maturity date (WMB sr's, were sold only to accredited investors and WMB jr's, were sold on the secondary market)... each WMB Bond' will receive a return of value equal to its individual date of maturity, plus 1.95% until the FDIC's issued "Receivership Certificates" complete and finalizes their claim' ...
(a releasing),
Class 19 Preferred Security's (P's and K's alike) are able to exceed their prospectus' stated security value' ... SO' ... "due to the fact" that a Class 19 has yet to be addressed regarding their claim ? ... a class 19 security has been accumulating unlimited' 7.75% prospectus based interest from the Original Date' ... Sept 2008 ... thru to present tense, and then ALSO was given an additional FJR (1.95%) interest accrual accommodation' since the Approved Plans Implementation Date', March 2012' ...
(a releasing),
Class 22 Common Share (uq's) ... are the actual owners of the Entire WMI Estate' ... who's claim is not a determinative or value specified issue' ... the releasing uq's simply get - all of the original estate' and all that financial value will subsequently involve' ...
Currently ... we are waiting for WMI II (the WMB Action) to be finalized, with the remaining releases intact and completed' ... at which time the NoteHolders' (there are 120 original institutional filers in WMI II)
~ will be deemed to have NOW' changed from originally releasing without prejudice on 03/19/2012, to NOW " releasing with prejudice" ~
I hope that was helpful'
AZ
~ ItsMyOption, Oh Sure, Quite Easily ~
Here, maybe this will help, ... a class 19 security originally issued by WMI' does not have a maturity date' ... they are prospectus designed to continue to accrue interest until, under a normal circumstance', the issuing company is able to address the security in a forward moving manner, or convert them to common shares' ...
Our Own Class 19's have been accumulating their prospectus associated interest (7.75%) ever since the 2008' seizure and subsequent BK filings, ...
Then ? ... the Court assigned FJR (1.95%) to be paid ... "on your claim" ... NOT ... "included in your claim" ...
So, a Class 19 Security, has now been accumulating its prospectus designated interest since Sept of 2008, now to the present tense, ... and then ALSO, since your claim has not yet been paid ?, ... there is an ADDITIONAL FJR Court assignment back to the March 2012' Plan Implementation Date' ...
So, ... Yes' ... a Face Value consideration ? - oh yeah' - that ? and then some ... just consider the magic of an amortization table (twice' ? applied and compounded ?) ... 7.75% calculated from Sept 2008' and then an additional 1.95% calculated from March of 2012' to your eventual claim payment'
Yes, Like You, I also hold both classes ... class 19 preferreds and class 22 common share uq's ... at a 51% / 49% ration ... plus, I got interested in the WMB Bonds, the class 17 subordinated debt' ...
truly, its all good, ... the WMI Estate is a Financial Leviathan ...
AZ
~ It Has Been About The Necessary Releases ~
Again,
the WMI's releases, ... were submitted by the class participating reorganizational participants ... (41.6) ... back in Feb of 2012
the WMI II' releases, ... have now been finalized within the - WMB Action - and its settlement ... August 2016'
AZ
~ The Actual Process ? Doesn't Work That Way ~
It is an issue of simply where the segregated class returns are able to come from ...
Piers, ... Class 16' ... a creditor Class capped hybrid' and a true high risk investors, complete waist of time'
WMB Bonds, ... Class 17' ... all have a designated maturity date, ... plus a Court assigned FJR (1.95%) until their claim has been realized ... soon, as is documented to be issued an FDIC, ... "Receivership Certificate"
Preferreds ... Class 19' ... have an original face value, but they do not have a maturity date' ... so, as court ruled, ... they will continue to accrue interest' until their claim is realized, plus again, a Court assigned FJR (1.95%) ... also remember, FJR is paid, ... "on the claim" ... Not' ... "included in the claim" ... so, in my opinion ? preferred securities will receive their recovery as the FDIC moves toward finalizing the receivership ... and' ... acomidates the ... the Settlement
Equity Class Estate Common Share's ... Class 22's ... Own the Entire Estate, ... WMI Investment Corp. ... and the Trusts generated, monthly income returns, now held for some 104 months' ...
The Original WMB, Noteholder Program, along with ... WMI II, the WMB Action, ... Prove the existence of, ... the Trusts' ... there are more, ... many, many, many more'
AZ
~ Guys, This ? Is Where Our Views Separate ~
WMI' ... has now reorganized', as of 03/2012' and the class participants have released
WMI II' (the WMB Action) has now Settled', as of 08/2016' and once again, ... the necessary releases are included and now completed ...
... The releasing common shareholders - in our case the uq's - as in all companies, actually own the Entire WMI Estate' ... this reality' has upset participants, ever since equity's representation was originally allowed ? ... and, ever since the final mediated result' allowed the common shareholders inclusion ...
The removal of the Absolute Priority Rule (APR) was NOT GLOBAL' and in my own opinion ? ... was ? and has been purposely mis-represented' ...
The removal of the Absolute Priority Rule (APR), ... was the result of a Court ordered, "mediated settlement" and each occurence of APR's removal needed to be approved by the Judge within the "Signed" Plan 7' Final Confirmation Order
One, ... the allowance of the AAOC settled $75,000,000.00 to jump over the classes and go directly to financially support the exiting new company, owned by the releasing class participants ...
Two, ... the WMI reorganizational settled allowance for the class WMB 17a's to receive LTI's and the agreement of the settled payment for their associated WMI fees and expenses ... then, to take their rightful position in Tranche 5' ... awaiting a "receivership certificate" to be issued by the FDIC', to accomadate the Noteholders eventual payment' ...
Three, ... the allowance for the dimeq' Class 21's to receive their associated WMI' reorganization settled distribution, and their associated tracking markers initially issued, to have now disappeared' from a releasing class 21 holder's account, due to their WMI' reorganization completed Settled amounts ...
Four, ... and the most unpopular, misunderstood and severely misrepresented, ... yet quite documented ... was the eventual allowance of any original WMI-LT left overs, ... to be RE-Distributed ... simultaneously 75% / 25% to the class 19's and the class 22's ... in the same fashion as the DCR's release of 1.4 million shares of WMIH-Corp back in August of 2015' ... (obviously without the LT ever finding a need for issuing an - Interests - in the LT, or an LTI's)
Now that the completion of WMI II's releases have been settled, ... everyone should understand just exactly what they own ? ... and where their returns can come from ...
the 75% / 25% distribution ... is not GLOBAL to the entire process' ... it is document stated to be limited to any possible WMI-LT leftovers, to be potentially - RE-Distributed - ... the individual allowances for APR's removal were specified, ... Rule 1129(b)
... wishful thinking' ... does not change the documented process, as it is now about to move forward ...
AZ
~ ItsMyOption, First' - Thanks ~
The FDIC uses the word "Dividend" in lieu of the word "Cash" all over the FDIC site' ...
ie; the FDIC's use of the term, ... dividend distribution, to them, ... would mean an actual' ... cash distribution, to the rest of the normal people' in the financial world ...
just sayin'
AZ
~ JWW, Well ? To The Literal ? ~
That statement would also be correct ... As stated in Filing # 0001' ... WMI' (now the reorganized WMIH-Corp) ... "owns the equity interest in WMIIC" ... reference; Stewart Landefeld ...
So, as stated, WMIH-Corp, ... only maintains ownership of the said ... "Equity Interest" ... while the releasing shareholders actually own the Original WMI Estate ...
... (a difficult subject for some) ...
We are dealing with very, very, smart and cautious people here'
AZ
~ JWW, ~
Yes, I found the WMIH-Corp CC references to WMI Investment Corp., ? ... Only One Of the TWO' of The Company's reported subs, to be quite interesting to say the least' ...
"Dormant" ... Yep, now there is quite an interesting choice of a description for a ... ABS-Cert producing money warehouse, that is being maintained by A&M, who is being paid for by the WMI-LT' ... that actually doesn't have any of its own assets or liabilities ... ? ... and as of 06/30/2016, "is in the process of beginning to be dissolved" ...
hhhhmmmm' ... sounds somewhat consistent with WMIIC's original filing for bankruptcy protection (First) to me'
... Yep, ...
AZCowboy, WMIIC is "only a dormant subsidiary coming out of the CH11 which doesn't drive any of WMIH's value" they said at the conference call
~ 2221, Well ? I Read and Read and then, I Read Some More ~
All humor aside, ... Yes, all of this information regarding all that are WMI, involved ?, is and has been released in numerous ... "Official Documents" ... there are five informational documents that have the participating members information' ... this has never been a big deal to me, ... I didn't file any of these docs, ... I just came across them ALL' while researching and studying the entire WaMu process' ... nothing more than to be a bit interesting, is all
The two that I found most interesting, are the two that list the releasing piers holders and the other listing the releasing equity holders' ... some of the entry's are the same on both documents' ... NT' is one of those' ... along with a family member' with the same last name' ... it truly doesn't matter though ... in my own opinion ... to each his own as I say'
The way I look at things regarding ... WaMu, WMI, and now WMIH-Corp, ... everyone made their own choices based on their own level of Due Diligence, ... again, not any big deal to me,
AZ HOW DO YOU KNOW such a detail information about Nate? ???? Information you only get it for an official document
~ I Was Only Somewhat Surprised ~
... That' ... any comments or references were actually made at all' associated with this still active process' ...
She was however, consistent and literal to the singularity of the process ... Only WMI Reorganized ...
WMIIC, ... after initially filing without listing any debt or creditors, ... did not' ... WMIIC' exited Chapter 11'
AZ
~ A Couple of WaMu Historical Corrections ~
1st, ... Nate's first name isn't actually Nate' ...
2nd, ... Yes, He is listed as a releasing owner of "Tranche 6" - Equity - (documented)
3rd, ... He is also listed as a releasing owner of "Tranche 4" - Class 16' - (documented)
4th, ... Tranche 5, Class 17 - WMB Bonds' - the ownership is maintained by the brokerage holding those securities ... on behalf of'
5th, ... verifying if he' owns subordinated debt or not, would be impossible outside of him actually showing you his account personally ...
6th, ... The Washington Mutual, Inc., ... Noteholder Program ... describes the process utilized, ... (yes billions) ... and the hundreds of Certs able to be reviewed, ... reveal the massive amounts of WMI Estate Returns ...
AZ
~ The Proof' - Is In The Trusts ~
No one can force another to read the relevant information, however, the relevant information has not only been presented here, but on other forums as well. ... over some four years now'
Some, Not all of the Trusts are available for one to study and review, ... many were private offerings, commercial lines, or "base value" completed with the simple presentation of a "term sheet" to already recognized prospective participants' ...
None of the Trusts, to date show that they have either collapsed ? or filed for protection within the guidelines of an associated prospectus' ... yes, they are a stand alone financial'
So Yes' ... Washington Mutual, Inc.(s) business model as a Financial ... DOES ... reveal its utilized process in its own submitted SEC filings' ... and Yes' the Trusts do reveal their "base value"
(here's a secret, ... this financial business model' is how all financials actually work, to produce income generation ... this process is NOT monopolized to WaMu)
Currently, ... the monthly income producing ABS-Certs, have continued to function in proper order, ... and' ... the monthly income has been accumulating now for some 102 months since 10/02/2008' ... WMIIC's secured funding returns have NOT been able to be utilized due to the filing for bankruptcy protection on 09/26/2008' ... WMIIC = The First Filing, without any debt or creditors
In My Opinion, this is coming to a close, as ... WMIH-Corp reported last 06/30/2016, that ... "IT' is beginning the process of dissolving WMIIC"
My conclusions lead me to watch for WMIH-Corp to begin utilizing the POWERFUL debt structure associated with the ownership of the "Equity Interest" in Billions of Dollars worth of ABS-Certs = The Trusts'
AZ
~ Nope, No Advice or Suggestions Have Ever Been Given ~
Or at least, not by any presentations that I may have submitted' ... anywhere' ...
The first quarter of 2012'(s) presented confusion did actually happen ... and' ... much of the information presented, was considered to be misdirections due to misunderstandings of the process ...
these presentations were either done on purpose ? ... or not' ... it really doesn't matter at this point' ... as long as history does not repeat itself' ... which, I believe is near to come' as the process obviously moves forward ...
The WMI Liquidating Trust' ... is only a consideration of what is or has been determined to be an actual ... "Interest" ... in the "Liquidating Trust" ... an issued LTI'
WMIH-Corp, as the newly reorganized WMI' ... IS NOT ... subservient to the WMI LT'
Class 17' WMB Bonds, ... ARE NOT ... subservient to the WMI LT'
Class 18' WMB Allowed General Unsecured Claims (Rule 510b), ... ARE NOT ... subservient to the LT'
Class 19' Preferred Security Holders' - ALSO - designated by their "tracking markers" issued' ... ARE NOT ... subservient to the WMI LT'
Class 22' Original WMI Estate Owners' designated by their "tracking markers" issued' ... ARE NOT ... subservient to the WMI LT'
The WMI LT, IS NOT' ... running the entire process, ... the LT is only a temporary PART OF THE PROCESS ...
ADDED: ... Yes, when one merely considers what any of the leftovers in the LT are ? , already revealed in an LT's filed QSR' reports ? ... IS' ... considered to be within a final RE-distribution ? ... then yes, those remaining items will be distributed utilizing the 75% / 25% ratio's ... (1.5 million shares of WMIH-Corp in the DCR and any remaining "Cash")
AZ
~ The Plan and Confirmation Order are Quite Clear ~
... If' ? ... a participant believes that - they' - will ever be actually issued an ... Interest' ... in the WMI Liquidating Trust ? ... an actual LTI' ... then yes' ... those associated ... newly' issued ... Interests' in the WMI Liquidating Trust ? LTI's ... will be distributed at the Plans Signed' Confirmation Orders described 75% / 25% ... RE-Distribution of what has been determined to be an actual ... Interest ... in the WMI Liquidating Trust. (Class 19 and Class 22)
... If' ? ... a participant believes that ... the WMI Liquidating Trust will be utilized within its Delaware Registered function as a Grantors Trust ... an actual - Pass-Through - distribution mechanism ? ... for Cash' limited to belonging to the WMI Estate Owners only' ... then ? ... the 75% / 25% LT Interest (only) application does NOT apply ...
The WMI LT will not take on the additional taxing responsibility associated with an issuing an actual new' ... Interest ... in the Liquidating Trust beyond its current already specified ... LTI Holders ... (Class 16)
The Plan and the Signed Confirmation Order are Specific' ... any wishful thinking or any misunderstanding will not change these specified distribution mechanics ...
~ Know What You Own ~ ... ~ Watch Your Six ~ ... ~ Knowledge Is Power ~ (or not)
AZ
~ No, No, and NO" Again ~
This has been part of the discussion problem' ... and', in my opinion, purposeful misrepresentation' by a few' ...
An ... Interest' ... in the Liquidating Trust' ? ... (an LTI)
... IS NOT' ...
A ... "tracking marker" ... which, designates an actual percentage % of ownership in the Entire and Encompassing WMI' Estate' ... All Things' $$$$$$$
IF one refers to an LT's QSR report' ... The LT's SEC submitted QSR specifies just exactly what can be considered to be an actual Interest in the LT" ...
Otherwise ?' ... The LT is Delaware Registered as a Grantors Trust' ... A Pass-Through distribution mechanism' ... Only'
AZ
~ Herb, Thanks' and Good Morning ~
"Do you believe that the FDIC will in fact keep us from any real financial resolutions for the full 10 year reconciliation time frame that they are allotted? In other words, do you believe September 2018 is the likely end date for whatever the end will be?"
"And, how do you perceive THJMW interpretation of "Fair & Reasonable"
~ Nope' - Sorry LG ~
I refuse to compromise my study of the literal wording within the - Sequenced - documents ... Again, ... the word, ... "CAPPED" ... as you insert, simply does not apply' ...
The word ... "Capped" ... only apples to a Class 16 security ... that's it
let me ask you a question ... when you' say "Capped" ? ... to what number do you refer to ? because if you are referring to ... face plus an interest accrued? ... that would be merely a non-documented assumption, on your part ...
Remember, and stick to the Ruling ... "Anything' above book value becomes the responsibility of the FDIC" ...
As I refer to, ... the misunderstood, and misrepresented ... "the Settlement" ...
So, ... what was the ... market value ... of a Class 19 security on Sept 1st, 2008 ? ...
So, ... what would be the ... market value of a Class 19 security on Feb 22nd, 2017 ? ...
Sorry, I refuse to compromise any of the specific wording in the Actual Judges Signed Confirmation Order ...
TPS signed on, ... because they understood that they were going to be able to continue to accrue interest' ... And' their security ownership would be considered at a time affiliation of ... Market Value ... NOT' ... Book'
Oh, and, ... Good Morning to you as well ...
AZ
~ The Class 19's Are Not Capped ~
I have never used the term "Capped" ... Never' ... Not Ever, when referring to the Signed Confirmation Order, Point 8 & Point 9, or (qqq) and (rrr) in the Approved Plan itself'
as presented, the deeper research of the eventual distribution process needs to remain literal to only the actual wording as purposely placed within relevant documents' in each and every discussion ... the documents are specific and address all issues moving forward' ...
more than a few times, there has been an improper reference to my study of the allowed distribution mechanics and the class 19's as being ... "Capped" ... I have NEVER used that term, simply because that term - DOES NOT - apply' ...
after a participant begins to acknowledge that only' WMI (the parent) Reorganized, ... and that only' WMI's actual Q' reported Cash on Hand was utilized to eventually complete its settled reorganization ?, then, and only then, does the full process begin to make sense'
after deeper study of WMI Investment Corp, ... my study of the Confirmation Order and the Plan, lead me to the documented information, explaining that the 75% / 25% simultaneous distribution between a Class 19' and Class 22' was LIMITED to a ... RE-Distribution ... of what is and already has been, considered to be an - Interest - in the WMI Liquidating Trust' ... (basically, any LT left overs) ... and of course an initial consideration of the new company shares issued at the Mar 2012' reorganization
as stated in the Plan, Class 19' is to also' receive an "accrual of interest" associated with their ultimate return' ... But Again, They' (Class 19) are NOT "Capped"
... The people have been hypnotized to an unbelievable and purposeful level, to focus merely on the LT' ... my 75% / 25% deeper study of the actual process, was the tipping point to the realization that the ... Distribution Mechanics Flow Well Beyond The Lifespan of this' LT ... which of course, NO ONE was ever expected to ? or supposed to figure out'
The monthly accumulated Cert produced income returns are Real' ... now ? they have been accumulated and warehoused on behalf of the original estate, for some 101 months' ...
AZ
~ Zeke', Yes I agree, However ~
These original WMI charges against the FDIC' is what was settled within ... "the Settlement" (2010) ... between WMI and the FDIC' ... while JPMC was actually considered to be a third party to this ending result' ... (2.4 of the GSA) ... first as listed, ... WMI and the FDIC, ... and then as referred to, ... WMI, the FDIC and JPMC'
ALL of these issues had been completed, settled, and addressed, prior to any Plan submission' ...
So far ? ... only the "Equity Interest" in WMB has been released per the 03/16/2012 recorded' document', ... "provided, however" ... (as stated') ... the Claims between WMI as a creditor of WMB, remain open' ...
I find these issues interesting, I simply thought someone else may enjoy a review of this' as well' ...
AZ
~ Is Anyone Interested in the (now) Settled Charges ? ~
The following original 2009' - "WMI Action" - charges against the FDIC are what was actually settled within' ... "the Settlement" ... I thought maybe a few of you would find this interesting' ...
These ultimately now, "Settled Debtor' Allegations", are placed ... "On The Record" ... due to this portion of my study and research, I obviously believe that the FDIC ultimately pays up' ... ($17.7 + "approx" $6.5) ... and yes, ...
the defined usage date prior to the Implementation of the Plan, 03/16/2017' ... the Capital Loss Allowance five year utilization time, is running out ...
Count #1 "the FDIC dissipated WMB's assets by selling substantially all of the assets of WMB to JPMC rather than liquidating WMB's assets, and thus the FDIC breached its statutory duty to maximize the net present value return of such assets, and therefore owes damages to WMI."
Count # 2 "the FDIC's wasting of WMB's assets constitutes a taking of property without just compensation in violation of the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution"
Count # 3 "the FDIC's refusal to compensate WMI for property taken in the receivership constitutes a conversion of WMI's property, actionable under federal law."
Count # 4 "the FDIC's refusal to compensate WMI for property taken in the Receivership constitutes a conversion of WMI's property."
Count # 5 "Unless and until the Debtors abandon the WMB Stock, the Debtors reserve all rights with respect to all of their claims arising from and with respect to the WMB Stock, whether or not asserted, including, without limitation, the WMB Stock Claims, and nothing herin is intended to suggest that those claims are not legally or factually valid."
Count # 6 "In the event that WMI does not abandon the WMB Stock, and the Court approves the Global Settlement Agreement, on the effective date therof, the WMB Stock Claims (along with all the Debtors' other claims asserted against the FDIC) will be deemed released.
... again, these are all (now settled) charges against the FDIC' ... (JPMC was considered a third party to the actionable event, and the events financially settled' consequences')
AZ
~ It's (actually) a Billion' Dollar Question ~
and so, ? if nothing else happens ? ... at least the Company (WMIH-Corp) has already told us that ... It' has begun to dissolve WMIIC' (WMI Investment Corp) ... already' revealed in the 06/30/2016 10-Q' ...
So, the company (WMIH-Corp) IS NOT;
subservient to the WMI Liquidating Trust ? ... Nope' not hardly
subservient to the bankruptcy process moving at a snails pace ? ... Nope' not hardly
subservient to whether or not the FDIC decides to complete - "the Settlement"' - ? ... Nope' not hardly
or, gives a hoot' about JPMC ultimately being left out in the cold, "due to the fact" that the FDIC can not gain complete ownership of ... "WMB and its assets" ... without the payment' - to the reorganized WMI' = WMIH-Corp - which completes the removal and separation' of ... "WMB and its assets" ... from the Original' WMI Tax Group' ... Nope' not hardly
This complete - WaMu - encompassing deal is an absolute financial leviathan' ... with numerous moving parts'
AZ
~ ItsMyOption, Yes and Thanks ~
Thank You for following the actual documents as they have been, studied, research, and ultimately presented to the larger group' ...
Yes, These are difficult subjects, however, and in my opinion ... these are serious issues that needed to be discussed and everyone needed to be prepared for' ...
Yes, the actual ending of the "Covenants" as listed, in the Series "A" Offering, last week on 01/30/2017' is a very, very, big deal ... The company actually refers to this "ending" as well in the 03/06/2016 SEC Filed 10-K for year ending 2015' ... (yes, the year we' all thought that we' were finally going to move forward') ...
I am so very pleased that the WMIH-Corp BOD's stayed diligent' and true to form and DID NOT utilize any of the A Series' PIK debt structure' ... any utilization of any portion of the $150 Million Dollar (unrestricted) Debt Structure' ... came at way toooooo' great of a (dilution) cost to our struggling' newco' ...
In My Opinion, ... we' (the actual true' owners of the original estate) are in quite' fine shape moving forward' ...
WMIH-Corp, owes us a 2016 10-K year ending financial report by the first part of March' ... where they will explain the 06/30/2016 "Q" reveal of their' beginning to dissolve WMIIC' ...
obviously, the new company, as the now reorganized WMI' ... Can Not Actually Force the FDIC to fulfill its original agreement' (the Settlement) ... but either way, ... we' should be in good shape' ... (the FDIC's failure to accommodate though, does come with negative ramifications as I listed the other day')
either the FDIC, accommodates ... "the Settlement" ... with its agreed upon payment to WMIH-Corp, (reorganized WMI) to remove "WMB and its assets" from the WMI Tax Group ? ... or' ... JPMC is sort of messed up ? ... not to mention the Claims being able to be returned and the "In Contempt of The Plan" ... issue' ? ... among some other - additional - quite serious issues' ...
or' ...
WMIH-Corp moves forward on its own within the dissolving of WMI Investment Corp' and ALL that' would entail' ... (accumulated funding held since 10/02/2008, and the monthly amount of return moving forward' ...
I'm good either way, or ... However, ... BOTH ... would be very, very, good for us all'
Thanks Again'
AZ
~ Well ? One Can' Believe What One Wants, I Guess ~
However, I have always tried to do my best to stay - True - to these Document Submissions' ...
WMIH-Corp ... IS' NOT ... subservient' to the WMI Liquidating Trust, ... neither are, the actual "Owners" of the Original WMI' Estate ...
WMIH-Corp ... IS' THE ... reorganized WMI' (the parent corp) and, is in a position to move forward as revealed' within the 06/30/2016 10-Q, ... WMIH-Corp IS' beginning to dissolve WMIIC' ...
WMIH-Corp ... AS' THE ... reorganized WMI' (the parent corp) does NOT need to remove "WMB and its assets" from the WMI Taxing Group, until the FDIC actually completes the ... the Settlement ...
... No One, was ever expected to dig this deep' ... these forward moving issues are important'
AZ
~ So, Is There Controversial Text' To My Presentation ? ~
First', ... an interested participant must acknowledge, that - ONLY - WMI' (the parent) actually reorganized ... the exiting documents are specific to this "Fact" ... also, one can review today's WMIH-Corp site, itself ... for timely verification ...
WMI Investment Corp, ... DID NOT ... reorganize, due to its original First' filing for the courts protective custody, without any, ... debt or creditors ...
Second', ... an interested participant must acknowledge, that according to each and every document referenced, - ONLY - what can be considered, a ... "Interest" ... in the WMI Liquidating Trust is only ever document revealed, ... and subsequently, a RE Distribution of the same' ...
Third' ... The recently released WMI LT QSR publically records what is currently being considered an actual ... Interest ... in the WMI Liquidating Trust ... (SEC obligatory)
Fourth' ... For the 75% / 25% split to be initiated, ... the LT would need to be in a position to RE - distribute what is defined as a Court designated ... Interest ... of itself, the actual LT' ... again, refer to the recent QSR'
Fifth' ... For the Class 19's to come anywhere close to receiving a reasonable return ? ... Some $7.5 Billion Dollars would need to be Court Designated as an ... Interest ... in the LT, ... and then upon distribution ? the LT would become responsible for that taxation issue ...
... The LT is not the Source of these distributions ... The LT will only be able to be utilized within its designated ... PASS - THROUGH ... function' ...
Both' ... the Plan 6, and the Plan 7, distribution mechanics are the same ... Only' who was allowed to participate in the ending result changed' ...
... I want to know the factual documented Truth' ... so there will be no more Mar of 2010's or 1st quarter of 2012 confusion ...
Again, ... If' ... there is any actual controverting Text ? ... please refer'
AZ
~ Only WMIH-Corp Can Issue Shares of Itself ~
Let's stay focused ... "other than" the 1.5 million shares still left in the LT's DCR per Note 7' in the 12/31/2016 QSR ... these issues have ZERO to do with my earlier discussions concerning the new company's possible use of a ... shares for value event' ...
What I was posting, ... was regarding the sequential "Cash" distributions and their Class designated recipients, from the FDIC's final accommodation of the original, ... the Settlement, ... and the company's ... dissolving of WMIIC, ... Two, very important future movement concerns ...
Also the R-45 references to WMIH-Corp(s) tax benefit allowances are discussed in each and every WMIH-Corp SEC Filed "K" or "Q" Filing since 2013' ... the most recent being the 09/30/2016 "Q" Report Filed ... do you need help picking one ? ... let me know which quarter ...
AZ
~ Fred, The Simplest Answer ~
The only answer that I can submit, would be that everyone' has been fixated on the WMI Liquidating Trust' ... (purposely) ...
wrongful presentations of a "composite submission" in lieu of an actual signed order, ... along with the twist' representation of ANNEC C' which is attached, defined, and literal to ONLY' an LT 8-K' ... and' ... only what the LT can actually refer to' ...
all of the made up nonsensical ... financial models, the LT' issuing warrants, illiquid returning assets, green mail', ... etc' etc' ... ALL nothing but a bunch of bunk' ...
I have stayed focused on the Plan specific' documents, and I was truly attempting to prevent an additional occurrence, and the obvious confusion and financial pain caused in the 1st quarter of 2012' ...
Simplified' ... at reorganization, a released share, be it a dimeq, P, K, or uq' ... ALL received associated "tracking markers" correlated with individual ownership' ...
The dimes, class 21, were Plan designated to be a WMI class 12 general unsecured, ... they (class 21) received their appropriate return and then the class 21 markers were removed' from an individual account ...
due to the fact that I do not believe a P, a K, or a uq' tracking marker in Tranche 6' is in a position to ever be issued an actual ... Interest' ... in the Liquidating Trust' ... and the taxing responsibilities that would accompany that issuing of an LTI beyond class 16' ...
I have stayed focused on the actual Approved Plan, it's Confirmation order and all of the documents leading up to the result' ...
Here is my answer to AT yesterday, separating the classes and where their returns can come from' ...
review an LT's QSR and look at exactly what is left within the LT' ... at some point into the future, the LT mat distribute its leftovers remaining, ... however, ... the LT will not need to issue an Interest in itself to accomplish this, and there simply isn't to very much in there to actually be concerned about' ...
I remain here, as an Owner of the WMI Estate ... I couldn't care less about the dribble amounts remaining in this LT' ... That' is not why I am here and remain invested' ...
Tranche - 4 class 16' (WMI creditor) are limited to a return of what is determinative to already be considered an "Interest" in the Liquidating Trust (already issued LTI's) ... forget about the piers' ... they are not any big deal' IMO' ... a true investors' waist of precious time for a troublesome and quite limited (capped) return' ...
Tranche - 5 class 17' and class 18' WMB seized bank issues' ... unless you own subordinated debt ? ... don't worry about class 17' and I seriously doubt that you have any class 18 general unsecured claims against WMB'
Tranche - 6 class 19' preferred class's (P's & K's) ... Plan designed to be paid to value' plus an accrual of interest due them' ... to be paid, once the FDIC completes the - "the Settlement" - and pays WMI' for "WMB and its assets" ... Plan designed
Tranche - 6 class 22' the common share owners, The Actual Owners of the WMI Estate' ... which includes all things ... any remains after class 19 is completed by the FDIC payment (class 19' tracking markers will then, disappear just like the 21's did, once they were Plan' finalized)
and of course, the Estate Owned, - WMI Investment Corp, - ... the accumulated Cert produced monthly returning' funding, separately held since 10/02/2008 (nunc-pro-tunc) ... and then ownership of the move forward of the continuing monthly Cert distributions' ... up to and until the Certs, that WMI participated in are ALL' finalized' ...
also ... and all that is associated with the FDIC's completion of the WMI Estate' ...
~ Muyuan, Thank You ~
Thank You, for bringing Point # 8 and Point # 9 From The Actual Signed Plan 7' Confirmation Order to an open discussion point of reference' ...
Point's 8 & 9, of the Signed Order were the basis for my conclusions regarding this very serious issue' ...
IF' you look closely at the actual text, you will quickly acknowledge that the 75% / 25% simultaneous split distributions are limited to ... not only one needing to be issued an actual - Interest - in the Liquidating Trust' (an LTI) ... but this text also only considers a ... RE' Distribution of what the Trust actually reports within its QSR's ... as again, an actual - Interest - in the Liquidating Trust' ...
I do not believe the Liquidating Trust' is in a position to continue to issue and accept the taxation responsibility associated with it's issuing of any additional - Interests - beyond class 16'
In Aug of 2015' The shares of the common stock that were RE Distributed from the DCR (Point 7 in the QSR) would have qualified for the designated 75% / 25% split distribution, as those shares were originally designated as a part of the existing DCR'
I also appreciate your presentations, I only request that you take a new and reviewed look at this text, as it is defined to a participant beyond class 16 ever being issued an - Interest - in the LT' and the LT's taxation responsibility that would come with that' ...
This particular Point # 8 and Point # 9' text, as submitted within the actual 02/23/2012 Judges Signed Confirmation Order, is also consistent with (qqq) and (rrr) of the Plan itself' ...
The LT's main function is to operate as a PASS-THROUGH ...
AZ
8. Treatment of Preferred Equity Interests. Commencing on the Effective Date , and subject to the execution and delivery of a release in accordance with the provisions of Section 41.6 of the Plan, each holder of a Preferred Equity Interest, including, without limitation, each holder of a REIT Series, shall be entitled to receive such holder's Pro Rata Share of seventy-five-percent (75%) of
a) subject to the right of election provided in Section 6.2(b), 7.2(b), 16.1(b)(ii), 18.2(b), 19.2(b) and 20.2(b) of the Plan, the Reorganized Stock and
b) in the event that all Allowed Claims and Postpetition Interest Claims in respect of Allowed Claims are paid in full (including with respect to Allowed Subordinated Claims), ANY Liquidating Trust Interests to be redistributed.
9. Treatment of Common Equity Interests. Commencing on the Effective Date, and subject to the execution and delivery of a release in accordance with the provisions of Section 41.6 of the Plan, each holder of Common Equity Interests shall be entitled to receive such holder's Pro Rata Share of twenty-five-percent (25%) of
a) subject to i) the right of election provided in Sections 6.2(b), 7.2(b), 16.1(b)(ii), 18.2(b). amd 20.2(b) of the Plan and ii) the rights of holders of Dime Warrants pursuant to the LTW Stipulation, the Reorganized Common Stock, and
b) in the event that all Allowed Claims and Postpetition Interest Claims in respect of Allowed Claims are paid in full (including with respect to Allowed Subordinated Claims), ANY Liquidating Trust Interests to be redistributed.
~ AT, No' You Are Not Out ~
... You just have to source your own, owned' security return (ROI) return' possibilities' ...
Tranche - 4 class 16' (WMI creditor) are limited to a return of what is determinative to already be considered an "Interest" in the Liquidating Trust ... forget about the piers' ... not any big deal' IMO' ... a true investors' waist of precious time for a troublesome and quite limited (capped) return' ...
Tranche - 5 class 17' and class 18' WMB seized bank issues' ... unless you own subordinated debt ? ... don't worry about class 17'
Tranche - 6 class 19' preferred class's (P's & K's) ... Plan designed to be paid to value' plus an accrual of interest due them' ... to be paid, once the FDIC completes the - "the Settlement" - and pays WMI' for "WMB and its assets" ... Plan designed
Tranche - 6 class 22' the common share owners, The Actual Owners of the WMI Estate' ... which includes all things ... any remains after class 19 is completed by the FDIC payment (class 19' tracking markers will then, disappear just like the 21's did, once they were Plan' finalized)
and of course, the Estate Owned, - WMI Investment Corp, - ... the accumulated Cert produced monthly returning' funding, separately held since 10/02/2008 (nunc-pro-tunc) ... and then ownership of the move forward of the continuing monthly Cert distributions' ... up to and until the Certs, that WMI participated in are ALL' finalized' ...
also ... and all that is associated with the FDIC's completion of the WMI Estate' ...
AZ
~ Well ? That's A Lot Of CL' Tax Allowance Money ~
I guess maybe the FDIC could simply tell the reorganized WMI' (WMIH-Corp) to go pound sand' ... and let the CL Loss Tax Allowance, ... simply expire' ... (March 17th, 2017)
Well Then ?, I guess then, that WMIH-Corp would not be motivated to release "WMB and its assets" from the "Original WMI Tax Group" ...
Well Then ?, I guess the FDIC would ? or actually could be found in "Contempt of the Approved Plan" ... 2.4 of the GSA is actually a part of the Approved Plan' ...
Well Then ?, I guess JPMC as an actual Third Party, would be sort of left out in the cold' and never actually be in a position to gain full transitional ownership of "WMB and its assets" like it originally thought it bought ? ...
and my favorite' ...
Well Then ?, if the FDIC doesn't complete "the Settlement" ? ... WMI' as a creditor of WMB is in a position to reactivate the original Claims' ... opening up that good old' violation of the Constitution by not having properly evaluated, WMI's property seized in a Government Mandated fashion' ... prior to the sale' (of course')
AZ