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~ So, What's Up' With All Of The Fluff ? ~
... Just watch for the next up, Plan 7, Tranche 5 Class 17's to move' ... now that WMI II (the WMB Action) has been Settled and its Settlement requirements have been completed as agreed ...
It's the WMB Noteholders, (The WMB Bondholders, Class 17) ... that forced the Plan 7 subordination, and its the same group of accredited investors (119 institutional investors, with one hold-out) ... that negotiated WMI II'
====================================
... * March 2nd, 2016, we' then have the ... ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE "STEERING COMMITTEE" ...
Here is the link to The March 2, 2016' Announcement by the "Steering Committee"
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160302006392/en/
"An Announcement by the Steering Committee of Ad Hoc Committee of Washington Mutual Bank Noteholders"
====================================
The Class 17 releases were brought forward to Plan 7, from Plan 6' ... and will have deemed to have released upon receipt of their distribution ... "Receivership Certificates" to be issued by the FDIC'
Once their (Class 17) distribution is realized ... ? ... They will have updated to now have ... "Dismissed With Prejudice"
Once their (Class 17) distribution is accomplished with the release of their Trust Accumulated Funds, that have been on hold (nunc-pro-tunc, since 10/02/2008) ... ? ... ALL of the accumulated funds, associated with ALL of the Trusts' ... also get Released ...
The European WMB Bondholders (120 accredited investors) completed this' ... watch the Class 17's ... the Rest ? falls nicely into place ...
AZ
~ Guys Thanks, But I'm Just Trying To Help Everyone By Releasing The Studied and Researched WaMu DD ~
Here, ... Just Take a second L@@k at who was part and parcel to the actual ... "Steering Committee" ... and just WHO' played quite an important role in the final, ... WMI II (the WMB Action) ... "Settlement", ... which has now been announced and has finally been signed off on by the California Superior Court' ... (thankfully) ...
... Yeppers' ... There they are' ... It's those same good ol, ... WMB Noteholders' (the European WMB Noteholders, ... The Class 17 WMB Bond Holders') ... showing up to help us out, once again and pushing us all to a positive end result' ... Yes', ~ The Trusts Have Continued To Perform ~
I have said this before, ... the European Noteholders, ... brought the legal rain' and did the heavy lifting ... They refused to accept a Plan 7' Class 12 general unsecured position, and forced subordination' in WMI I's reorganization, ... and now as we see, they also worked the negotiations necessary in Settling ... (WMI II (the WMB Action)
... * March 2nd, 2016, we' then have the ... ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE "STEERING COMMITTEE" ...
Here is the link to The March 2, 2016' Announcement by the "Steering Committee"
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160302006392/en/
"An Announcement by the Steering Committee of Ad Hoc Committee of Washington Mutual Bank Noteholders"
NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Between July and October 2015, a mediation (the “First Mediation”) took place between the members of the Steering Committee (“Steering Committee”) of the Ad Hoc Committee of Washington Mutual Bank (“WMB”) Senior Note Holders and certain holders (“Institutional Investors”) of residential mortgage-backed securities (“RMBS”) sponsored by WMB. Among other terms, the last proposal made by the Steering Committee to the Institutional Investors, reflected in a proposed memorandum of understanding, included an allowed unsecured claim against the WMB Receivership in the amount of approximately $2.28 billion on behalf of the WMB RMBS trusts for which Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. (“Deutsche Bank”) serves as trustee (not including trusts with mortgage repurchase liability claims for which Washington Mutual Mortgage Securities Corporation is obligor). Other terms and conditions of the last proposal included, but were not limited to, provisions regarding the possible reduction of Deutsche Bank's claims against the WMB Receivership in the event of a successful appeal in the WMB Litigation (defined below), the payment of counsel fees, and various procedural details. It was contemplated that the terms would be reflected in an executed memorandum of understanding, and then would be fully documented in settlement agreements that would include Deutsche Bank and the FDIC. The Steering Committee and the Institutional Investors have not executed the memorandum of understanding or any settlement agreement. An agreement between the parties to the First Mediation was meant to be a step towards a global settlement of the claims asserted by Deutsche Bank on behalf of certain WMB RMBS trusts in the action Deutsche Bank Nat’l Trust Co. v. FDIC, et al., No. 09-1656 (D.D.C.), and of the indemnity claims asserted against the WMB Receivership by JPMorgan Chase Bank N. A. (“JPMorgan”) (collectively, the “WMB Litigation”). The members of the Steering Committee understand that a mediation among the named parties to the WMB Litigation (the “Second Mediation”) commenced in December 2015. The members of the Steering Committee further understand that the legal and financial advisors to the Ad Hoc Committee may have information regarding the Second Mediation, but no information regarding that mediation has been shared with members of the Steering Committee.
~ Distro, Thanks, and To Answer This Question ? ~
Doesn't the results of WMI I and WMI II result in cash and assets to WMILT, so why would WMIH PPS and volume increase as a first action? Are you thinking WMIH's Equity interest in WMIIC will drive speculation before disclosure?
The Liquidating Trust Assets will consist of all of the assets of the Debtors as of the Effective Date, other than:
* the Company's equity interests in (i) Investment (all the assets of which will be contributed to the WMI Liquidating Trust, including any intercompany claims), (ii) WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company, Inc., and (iii) Washington Mutual Bank (the stock of which is worthless and is expected to be abandoned by the Company shortly before the Effective Date);
* cash to be distributed on and from the Effective Date pursuant to the Plan to holders of certain allowed claims against the Debtors;
* cash necessary to pay the fees and expenses owed to certain creditors' professionals;
* cash necessary to reimburse the Debtors for fees and expenses incurred in connection with initial distributions made by the Debtors as disbursing agent under the Plan;
* the economic interest retained by the Debtors in any Litigation Proceeds pursuant to the respective elections of Reorganized Common Stock; and
* Creditor Cash on the Effective Date.
The majority by dollar amount of the Liquidating Trust Assets is expected to consist of tax refunds and accumulated interest on those refunds, cash held in the Liquidating Trust Claims Reserve, and Runoff Notes.
~ Oppps' ? A Typo on An Important Date Correction ~
(Guys Typing ? ... Is Not My Thang')
~ So, What Come's First, A WMIH-Corp PPS Pop-Up ? or, ~
Or ? ... Does a Press Release Preempt' the Future Events ? ... In My Own Opinion ? with only 206 million (ish') shares out ? I say this little new company (WMIH-Corp)'s PPS' will quite s@@n' be impossible to be controlled' ... (as it obviously has been since 03/19/2012)
Let's See,
* March 19th, 2012, WMI I's Plan 7 is Approved and Implemented, WMIH-Corp enters into reorganization, as the WMI II (the WMB Action) continues on a "legal dual track" in D.C.
============================================
* June 17th, 2015, Judge Collyer Submits Her' Opinion Regarding the WMI II (the WMB Action) Litigation, ...
Case 1:09-cv-01656-RMC Document 181 Filed 06/17/15
https://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu_amended_unsealed_opinion.pdf
============================================
* March 2nd, 2016, we' then have the ... ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE STEERING COMMITEE ...
This is the link to The March 2, 2016' Announcement by the "Steering Committee"
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160302006392/en/
=============================================
* August 19th, 2016, we' get a chance to review the actual the "SETTLEMENT"
This is the link to The August 19, 2016' "Settlement" Executed Copy' ...
https://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu_dbntc_jpmc_fdic_settlement.pdf
=============================================
* We Then get an opportunity to read what the FDIC and JPMC had allowed to be included in ... "The Settlement"
"The DBNTC-JPMC-FDIC Settlement remains subject to judicial approval in a procedure to be filed by DBNTC in California, and if approved, will result in the dismissal of the four WAMU-related actions pending in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia and the appeal pending in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit."
~ So, What Come's First, A WMIH-Corp PPS Pop-Up ? or, ~
Or ? ... Does a Press Release Preempt' the Future Events ? ... In My Own Opinion ? with only 206 million shares out ? I say this little new company (WMIH-Corp)'s PPS' will quite s@@n' be impossible to be controlled' ... (as it obviously has been since 03/19/2012)
Let's See,
* March 19th, 2012, WMI I's Plan 7 is Approved and Implemented, WMIH-Corp enters into reorganization, as the WMI II (the WMB Action) continues on a "legal dual track" in D.C.
============================================
* June 17th, 2015, Judge Collyer Submits Her' Opinion Regarding the WMI II (the WMB Action) Litigation, ...
Case 1:09-cv-01656-RMC Document 181 Filed 06/17/15
https://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu_amended_unsealed_opinion.pdf
============================================
* March 2nd, 2016, we' then have the ... ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE STEERING COMMITEE ...
This is the link to The March 2, 2016' Announcement by the "Steering Committee"
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160302006392/en/
=============================================
* August 19th, 2016, we' get a chance to review the actual the "SETTLEMENT"
This is the link to The August 19, 2016' "Settlement" Executed Version
https://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu_dbntc_jpmc_fdic_settlement.pdf
=============================================
* We Then get an opportunity to read what the FDIC and JPMC had allowed to be included in ... "The Settlement"
"The DBNTC-JPMC-FDIC Settlement remains subject to judicial approval in a procedure to be filed by DBNTC in California, and if approved, will result in the dismissal of the four WAMU-related actions pending in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia and the appeal pending in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit."
~ I Took A Look At Some Rough Numbers ~
and, I thought that I would share them with the group' ... I took a look at the submission of information as of 03/31/2017 by, "Duff & Phelps" as submitted on 04/26/2017' regarding - ONLY - the listed WaMu Trusts' associated with DB' ... (I did not consider any of the LEHM listings) ...
ALSO, ... as I have mentioned' ... according to the entire list of Residential (RMBS) WaMu Related Pooling & Servicing Agreements, ... There are easily FIVE times this amount of total WaMu Related Trusts, ... NOT considering any, Commercial Lines, Private Offerings, Term Sheet Participations, etc. etc. ... Yes, WaMu was Massive' ...
So Again, As reported by "Duff & Phelps" as of 03/31/207 ... on 04/26/2017'
The Original Collateral Balance of the Deutsche Bank (only) Trusts was' roughly;
$84,000,000,000.00
The Current Collateral Balance of the Deutsche Bank (only) Trusts is'
roughly;
$7,500,500,000.00
With A TO DATE TOTAL LOSS (as of 03/31/2017 & to be updated accordingly) of'
roughly;
$16,700,000,000.00
Meaning that, ... Roughly' $60,000,000,000.00 of the WaMu Related to DB Trusts (only) have had their original - "BASE VALUES" - paid back by either a, re-finance or, a paid off loan, or the sale of the property' ...
Remember, ... A Trusts - "BASE VALUE" - is the actual cash financial support for the packaged debt' ... so, the - "BASE VALUE" - of a Trust, eventually gets returned to the Supporting Trust' or also as referred to as an ABS-Certificate'
...
So, quite some big numbers in my opinion' ... especially when I consider that the Deutsche Bank Certs as revealed, are only a percentage of the entire WaMu pool' ...
AZ
~ Kate, That Is Correct ~
The WMI-LT' ... Is Not, nor Can IT Be', in control of anything that, ... WMI / WMIIC, only participated within' ... The Trusts' ...
Again, ... In My Own Opinion ?', ... it has always been the WMI-LT that has purposely allowed this information to be twisted and misrepresented ... enter, the Trustee (kosturos)' and just who was quite easily able to be manipulated for a couple of bucks' ... ? ... (dont_b_kruel)
Look, ... after I went back over a few of the documents, which included the Plan's Signed Confirmation Order, ... I realized what was being misunderstood by the people and also what had been being misrepresented, ... on purpose ...
~ Watch Your Six ~ and ~ Know What You Own ~ and ~ No' No, I Will Never Be Issued An LTI ~
AZ
~ If ? Anyone Is Interested ~
The Original Semi-Annual Coupon Date for the Original WMB Notes' ... (sold both, to accredited investors as Class 17a WMB Seniors, and to retail investors on the secondary market as Class 17b WMB Junior Debt) ...
... Their Coupon Date is in the month of - July' - (the 9th or 10th respectively) ...
This is Tranche 5 ... Class 17' ... as we' are scheduled to begin the return to Judge Walraths Court by July 17' 2017 ...
ORDERED: that the Parties shall complete any efforts to meet and confer regarding any productions and produce any additional documents resulting therefrom no later than July 17; (2017)
FOOTNOTE 5: Nothing contained herin shall constitute a waiver of any of the Parties' rights to file a motion for summary judgement prior to the filing of pre-hearing briefs and such rights are expressly reserved hereunder.
~ SometimesRight, and a Few Other Questions ~
... No, to your CIC question', ... The WaMu CIC' (Change in Control) issue has Not Yet' been finalized' ... This is still an open ended issue, and will ultimately be ruled on by Judge Walrath' currently scheduled for hearing in February of 2018' ...
However, this could be completed sooner, ... Now that WMI II (the WMB Action) has been completed as settled', ... a submission for a "Summary Judgement" is now allowable' ... (as footnote 5' in the January 2017 Signed Order states')
As I have said, ... Back on 03/16/2012, three days ahead of the Plan 7 Implementation Date, ... Only' the "Equity Interest" in WMB was released' ... (Filing 9901) ... James Carreon of A&M' as introduced by John Mastando of Weil' to Judge Walrath, ... was correct' ... the available use of any of WMB's, NOL's disappear once the actual Ownership of WMB is finalized by the FDIC', and the completed Change in Control, of the bank WMB' is fully transferred to JPMC ... The Change in Control ... Issue' has yet to be completed and ruled on by the Court ...
A Plan 7 Class Participant, Releases Signed ? ... Well, It appears that not everyone actually read and studied just exactly what they signed', back in February of 2012' ... Yes, Bankruptcy Rule 1129(b) is listed in a Release Form ? ... and Yes, Bankruptcy Rule 1129(b) must be adhered to, ... "other than" ... what the Plan 7 Approving Court (Judge Walrath) specifically allowed for' (I have listed the specific reasons) ...
I actually believed that had everyone taken the time to actually READ' their Signed Release Form, prior to my bringing the additional DS and Confirmation Orders information forward' to the group ... in, specified language to the group' ... The 75% / 25% Class 19 / Class 22 Distribution is limited to only a RE-Distribution of what is left over in the WMI-LT' ... otherwise ? ... a dividend distribution is specified to an individual Classes Financial Support' ...
~ It Has Been The Members of the WMI-LT' themselves, that HAVE NOT BEEN, forthright on this issue, ... and ? In My Opinion ? have purposely promoted these misconceptions' ~
Also, ... No One', beyond Class 17a ... will ever be issued an LTI, ... or an actual INTEREST' in the WMI-LT (referred to as an LTI) ... Nope' Not Hardly, the WMI-LT will be utilized as the PASS-THROUGH Mechanism that it is currently Delaware Registered as' (a Grantors' Trust)
So, I am watching the WMIH-Corp for the process to finally begin, now that WMI I' has gone through to a reorganization 03/19/2012, and now that WMI II' has Settled as well, and all of its settlement requirements completed' (06/30/2017)
Oh, before I forget, for those that continue to listen to the misrepresentations ? ... "Settled" results to a litigated conflict ? do not get Appealed ... that ? was one of the funniest things that I ever read' ...
AZ
~ Another Quite Relevant Issue, Is ~
Judge Walrath's Final Ruling, concerning the, ... WMI / WMIIC, ... "Change in Control" ... issue, which has not yet been completed and finalized ...
This ? ... is quite a very big deal' ... which can now be completed since WMI II (the WMB Action) has been Settled and its, Settlement Stipulations, have been Completed ...
Now, ... the process will move back to Judge Walrath's Court, to make a final ... "Change In Control" ... determination, ... initially requested to be placed on hold in January, 2017' ... Approved, ...and then, scheduled to be picked up again, mid July ...
The employee claims can now be completed with a request for a summary judgment ...
AZ
~ Cura, That Is Correct ~
Lets try to put this issue' to rest', ... Once Again' ... IMO, ...
It has been, ... The WMI-LT, that has utilized ambiguous language purposely to confuse ... promoted by purposely presented incorrect interpretations of this issue ... beginning with' - dont_b_kruel, & bop' - etc. ...
If everyone would simply take a moment to review the specific language placed within your own ... Submitted Signed Release Form ... You' will quickly read that Rule 1129(b) is dominant', as it is associated with the Priority Among the Plans Releasing Classes' ... as associated with their individual class returns allowed' ...
Then an obvious, individual search and a quick review of Rule 1129(b) will set this issue to rest' ... it isn't long' ... my study associated with Rule 1129(b) was presented some three years ago, now' ...
The WMI-LT, ... can not make any distribution determinations regarding what WMI or WMIIC' did not actively own, ...
The Class 19 / Class 22, ... 75% / 25% ... RE-Distribution, ... is limited to only the remains of what ends up being left over in the WMI-LT'. ... Nothing Else'. ...
The Trusts were participated in, ... they were not able to actually be owned ...
Know What You Own' ... or not I guess' ... however it has been the WMI-LT, and its misleading supporters, that have been purposely misleading on this issue' ...
However, ... if your ownership is beyond a Class 17a, ... You will not be issued an ... Intetest in this LT' ... referred to as an LTI' ...
AZ
~ Well, It Depends on the Security ~
So, ... define by the security owned' ...
A WMB Bond' ? is an interest bearing security' ...
(so Yes, their Supporting Trusts have continued to function)
A WMI Preferred ? is an interest bearing security' ...
(so Yes, their Supporting Trusts have continued to function)
A uq' common share ownership of the parent corp', is just that' and, is supported by the encompassing' value of the same' ...
AZ
~ LP, Yep, You Are Reading My Mind' ~
I am actually watching for a credible notification', that the now, "Settled" notice of the FDIC-C's payment to JPMC for the "Administrative Expense" of the $645 Million has occurred' ... I don't care about the rest of it' ... I only currently care about only what actually pertains to us' ... and' ... obviously, the FDIC and JPMC were still diddlin' around with the WMI II additional releases' ...
here are a few things, ...
The Class 17 releases, were brought forward to Plan 7 from Plan 6' ... and' ... "Will Have Deemed to Have Released Upon Receipt of Their Distribution" ... that ? is to be fulfilled with an FDIC issued, "Receivership Certificate" ... to be issued, per the FDIC's Claims Department' and submitted as an attachment to Clarke's (DLA Piper) submission in Support of Judge Collyer's Opinion' ...
Upon the Settlement and completion of WMI II (the WMB Action) and upon receipt of their distributions, The WMB Noteholders, will update to now have ... "Dismissed With Prejudice" ... Again, quite a very big deal' ...
In My Own Opinion ? ... what is important to us ?' ... is individualized specifically to us' ... now that the WMI II Settlement has been announced ? and, its specified requirement completed by the California Court ? (ASAP ?') ... Things that are ONLY associated to us, should begin to move' ...
allowing for DB to be included in the SETTLEMENT ? IMO, was a purposeful, and shameful distraction allowed for by the FDIC and JPMC, to delay the inevitable' ... (legal ? yes' ... Right ? NO WAY')
AZ
~ Making Anyone Eat Crow, IS NOT Why I Participate ~
Or, any point proving, or any arguing, etc, etc, etc, ... the other area ? has lost all credibility, in my opinion, due to the fact that, ... purposeful chaos is created without guidelines' or consistency' ... dont_b_kruel promoted, ... there are currently some 15 or 16 different rabbit holes going on over there' simultaneously ... again, meant to keep confusing the folks, in my own opinion' ...
I would hope ?', that by this point in time, that everyone understands that I have done my level best, to apply practical applications to the very complex - WaMu - ...
TWO' Original Production' Centers' (Seattle, WA & Vernon Hills, IL), TWO' Bankruptcy's Filed (WMIIC - First), ... TWO' Dual tracking Cases' (Jointly Administered), ... and now most important ?, ... There are now' (thankfully), TWO Completed Settled Results' ... (the First for the Class Participants on 03/19/2012' as WMI / WMIIC entered into reorganization) ... and now, ... (the Second for the WMI II (the WMB Action, completing the business between the FDIC-C and JPMC)
Does this suffice as EATING CROW?????????????????????
~ JohnnyKansas and NiceSeaShell, Your Questions ~
Guys, I'm not here all of the time so I always appreciate everyone's patience. I will do my best to respond ... without arguing'
First; Yesterday after I was asked ? ... I was only discussing some of my own speculation regarding some conservative considerations, simply applying what Deutsche Bank revealed publically' along with some additional DD'
... The truth is, I have reviewed well over 300 "WaMu" Pooling and Servicing agreements, associated with Residential (RMBS) Trusts, that "WaMu" is still' participant within' ... Now, to the direct question you asked ? ...
Yes, ... well beyond an RMBS', a Residential Cert Trust, ... There are also "Commercial Lines" ... "Private Offerings" ... "Term Sheet Offerings" ... etc, etc' ...
Basically, what I actually consider is a disciplined focus on the actual BK' Filings' and the result' ... Most Important is the Original Filing of the WMI' Action in March of 2009' ... which lead to the Settlement between WMI and the FDIC with JPMC as a third party after the comma, ... (JPMC was the FDIC's choice) ...
then I separate the WMB Noteholder Action, and the WMI' Preferred Offerings ... and sit back for the obvious to happen' ... "WaMu" was literally massive and YOU (and me) were never supposed to still be here' ... Remember' ... WMIIC and WMI Filed' for BK and reorganized' ... NOT' the Trusts that they' participated in ...
Second; ... as mentioned yesterday, the 25% participation within a Trusts base value at its initial offering, ... allows for the 25% participant to request an "equity certificate" from the Trustee of the ABS-Cert' ... which can then be utilized as hard debt collateral' ... for additional future participations' ... and so on, and so on, and so on'
its an investment cycle' described in a Certs Prospectus' ... remember what S. Landefeld said, ... "WMIIC holds 100% of WMI's Equity Interest" ... then, one can refer to what a Cert says that an Equity Interest actually is', as Landefeld' referred to' ...
An equity interest is defined under the Regulation as an interest other than an instrument that is treated as indebtedness under applicable local law.
~ Guys, Just Slow Your Roll' A Bit ~
Just keep in mind that' ... A WMI Class Releasing Common Share Holder, (uq) ... CAN NOT' Actually Own, what Washington Mutual, Inc. (the parent corp') ... wasn't actually able to Own' ... again, ... WMI' WAS ONLY A PARTICIPANT' WITHIN' The TRUSTS' ...
The same application can and should also be assigned to the WMI-Liquating Trust' ...
Remember what S. Landefeld, Stated' ... The WMIIC' Cash held in its own WMB Account was swept up as well' at the seizure' ... the good news is, that the Trust producing monthly cash returns, were NOT able to be stopped' ... ie; the reason for the 10/02/2008' ... nunc-pro-tunc, ... Court Order' ...
AZ
~ LP & Intuitive, My Best Answer Is ~
Regarding the FDIC's Priority # 1; ... "Administrative Expense" ... now Settled and allowed to be paid by the FDIC-C to JPMC' ? ... I believe there are many of us watching to be able to review a verification notifying us all, that' ... has now been completed' ...
personally, I don't give a care about the ... FDIC-C's allowed Priority # 4 ; ... "general unsecured claim" ... against the FDIC-R for the $3 billion (ish) ... good luck with that, Deutsche Bank' ... (DB only placed allegations of poor performance') ... completing the process to actually squeezing some $3 billion, out of the R' is quite a stretch ...
Now, to my OWN' Considerations as far as returns for the uq's ? ... IN MY OWN OPINION ? before any of this gets all twisted ? ... (I DO NOT Like to do this publically, either) ...
Here is what I do, ... simplified' ...
I take DB's reveal of the original 99 Certs base value' ... then, I have actually uncovered over 300 RMBS' pooling and servicing agreements' ...
So I use an average for my own considerations' ...
$165 billion / 99 = is roughly a $1.6 Billion Base Value Average'
Then, I multiply roughly 300 Certs X's an average base of $1.6 Billion, or, for the Residential ONLY' ... a total of roughly $480 Billion' ...
Then I use DB's average of a loss ratio' ... of roughly 12% ... or minus roughly $58 Billion ... Leaving roughly $420 Billion of Base Value' ... AGAIN for the Residential Trusts only' ...
Then I apply a Prospectus Described Minimum Participation of 25% of a Trusts Base Value at Issue, to be able to qualify for the associated Debt Structure' along with the Cash Returns' ...
So, ... as conservatively as I deem possible, ... and Considering Residential Certs Only, ... I believe that WMI has some Trust participating values' ... secured within WMI Investment Corp. of some, ... $100 Billion Dollars' ... at least' ...
So, amortize those financial vehicle returns over the last 8 years ish' ... and there you have it' ...
So, ... if you simply take the base at seizure' and divide by the 1.215 billion common shareholders that released ... ? ... well ? ... you get a rough value of ... kind of a lot per uq' share' ... not to mention the accumulated cash values, now held on your benefit for releasing your uq's back in 2012' ...
These are my own opinions' ...
AZ
~ Now, Back To Your Question, - Second ~
The class releasing common uq' shareholders, as in all corporate structures, actually own the company' ... So, your released common uq' shares actually Own' the Original WMI Estate'...
The WMI Estate' encompasses many things, but in my opinion the most important thing, that was originally secured, ... was' WMI Investment Corp. ...
I have uncovered over 300 - WaMu - pooling and servicing agreements, which are connected ONLY to Residential Certs' ... there are also many others' ... commercial lines, etc' ...
So, ... one thing that Deutsche Bank actually accomplished for us' ... was shining a very bright light on 99 RMBS Certs' of the entire pool' ... again, there are many, many, more' ...
So, ... Yes' ... the amounts are staggering' ...
Remember, ... An ABS-Cert (A Trust) is a stand alone financial cash producing mechanism, ... THAT CAN NOT BE OWNED ... by any singular entity' ... So, ... NOT ONLY was WMI - NOT - able to own what it participated in, ... But NEITHER CAN, ... the WMI-LT' ...
The Good News Is ? ... WMI II is now "Settled" and "Completed" ...
AZ
~ Yes I Believe I Can, However FIRST ~
I believe that "everyone" does not actually ~ Know What They Own ~ ... nor how valuable their "Released WMI" original holdings actually are'
... So, I have to take a moment to correct a few mis-interpretations' which always appear to lead to mis-representations' ...
The Following is DIRECT FROM the Original WMI Preferred Series Offering' ... Yes' the TPS Lost their case' ... THANKFULLY' ...
If the Office of Thrift Supervision (together with any successor regulator, the “OTS’) so directs following the occurrence of an Exchange Event as described herein, each Trust Security will be automatically exchanged for depositary shares representing a like amount of Washington Mutual, Inc.’ s (“WMI’) Series N Perpetual Non- cumulative Fixed-to-Floating Rate Preferred Stock.
If the OTS so directs following the occurrence of an Exchange Event, each Trust Security will be automatically exchanged (a “Conditional Exchange’) for a like amount of Fixed-to-Floating Rate Depositary Shares (the “Depositary Shares’) each representing 1/ 1000th of a share of WMI’s Series N Perpetual Non- cumulative Fixed-to-Floating Rate Preferred Stock, no par value and liquidation preference $1,000,000 per share (the “Series N WMI Preferred Stock’), as described below in this summary under “—The Offering —Conditional Exchange”. Upon a Conditional Exchange, the Trust I Securities, the Trust II Securities, the Trust Ill Securities and the WaMu Cayman Securities will also be automatically exchanged, but for depositary shares representing different series of WMI’s preferred stock, having substantially equivalent terms (with certain exceptions) as to dividends, liquidation preference and redemption preference as the Outstanding Company Preferred Securities owned by Trust I, Trust II, Trust III or WaMu Cayman, as applicable.
The Trust Securities will be issued only in book-entry form. Each individual purchaser or group of affiliated purchasers that acquires Trust Securities in the initial offering must acquire at least three Trust Securities having an aggregate liquidation preference of $300,000.
The Trust Securities will not be listed on any securities exchange or automated dealer quotation system.
The securities offered hereby are not insured or guaranteed by the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other insurer or government agency or instrumentality.
~ Well, ? Regarding WMI to WMIH-Corp to the Present ? ~
The 08/2016' announcement of the Settlement and now recent Completion of WMI II (the WMB Action) was paramount' for our forward movement ...
For some ? ... (not all) ... The disregard for the Judicial Notices and their associated dual tracking process is, ... in my opinion, ... inexcusable' ... (Jointly Administered, ... Right ?)
Misunderstanding these complex issues, ... is acceptable, ... however, Purposeful Misrepresentations ... are not' ...
The WMI-LT is guilty of this, along with it's original design, [----------] insert at will' ... MW did not need a friend, nor, did the group need an additional legal thinker' ... and the WMIH-Corp, BOD' maintains ... silence ...
The process moves forward from here,
I'm here to help, not to argue, with a poor work product, or purposely presented confusion ...
AZ
~ Also, Controlling The PPS to These Low Levels ? ~
Up to and until WMIH-Corp is prepared to actually move forward ? ... has' kept a lid on things in proper fashion' ... and has restricted some institutional purchasers from being able to create a position, ...
As such, the Trust intends to prohibit the acquisition and holding of any Trust Security or Company Preferred Security or any interest in a Trust Security or Company Preferred Security by or on behalf of a Benefit Plan Investor, other than an insurance company general account that meets the requirements stated below.
~ DGU, Actually An Excellent Question ~
And one that I was considering as we were all watching the WMI II' ... Settlement ... requirements being addressed by the California Superior Court' ...
So basically, YES' to your question' ... WMI I' ... has not yet been totally completed' ... earmarked to go back to Judge Walrath's Court in Mid-July, ... however, ... I don't believe this is any big deal regarding either ... us' ? ... or WMIH-Corps ability to move forward, ...
The DCR, should now be able to accommodate any employee claims issues, (Class 18) ...
AZ
~ LP, No, I Would Not Believe So' ~
According to WMI I(s) Approved Plan 7' Reorganization, ... A Class Participant, needed to submit their release according to 41.6 in order to ultimately be involved' ...,
... The 75% / 25% RE-Distribution issue of the eventual left overs in the WMI-LT, ... was purposely designed to be misleading ...
AZ
~ So, As Included In The Original 2007' Offering ~
WMI, together with its subsidiaries, had total assets of approximately $330.1 billion, total liabilities of approximately $306.1 billion and total stockholders’ equity of approximately $24.0 billion. As of September 30, 2007, WMI and its subsidiaries also had total deposits of approximately $194.3 billion. WMI’s common stock is listed on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol “WM”.
~ How About This ? ~
Are you' interested in seeing your $24 Billion, referred to in a 2007' Prospectus Offering ? ... in lieu of, simply in the original WMI Filing for BK ? ...
AZ
~ Well ? To Answer Your Question ? ~
Is just exactly WHY' I began my public discussion arena's presentations associated with, ... ~ Know What You Own' ~ as pertaining to the separation of the WMI I, Released Class Participations' ...
along with, ~ I Will Never Be Issued an LTI' ~ and many other relevant researched and studied issues' ...
and, the very misunderstood' ... 75% / 25% distribution issue' which is truly limited to only a RE-Distribution of any left overs in the WMI-LT' ...
Class 22' releasing common shareholder (uq's) as in all corporate structures' ... are the owners of the parent corporation, Washington Mutual, Inc. ... so' ... the releasing uq's will own, WMI's portion of its percentage of participation in Trusts' with their cash returns having been held within WMI Investment Corp. since 10/02/2008' ... along with other things, yet to be handled by the FDIC'
Class 19' releasing securities, ... are connected to the Supporting Trusts aligned with', the Original WMI Preferred Offering' ...
Class 17'(s) are connected to the Supporting Trusts aligned with', the Original WMB Noteholder Program'
AZ
~ What I Have Presented IS' Documented ~
As has been hashed over for a number of years now' ... is' actually in a documented form' ... although yes, it was quite difficult to find' ... I refused to give up on such a serious issue' and I was ultimately rewarded with the information for my work' ... I'll try to simplify' for the group'
WMI Investment Corp' held within it' ... WMI's "participation" returns within Trusts' ...
the WMB Noteholder Program' ... was supported by Trusts' ... (20 billion euro's worth, issued out of the UK')
the WMI Issued Preferred Securities' ... were also' supported by Trusts' ... ($10.9 billion in 2007')
~ Trusts' ~ that were / and are NOT actually owned by WMI' (WaMu) however, Trusts' that were utilized as a income generating cash return supporting mechanism' ...
Now' ... the actual participants within a Trust along with their own percentage of specific participation ? ... are not able to be publically revealed' ... that information is privately held' ...
So, ... WMI'(s) participation in Trusts' ... with their returns secured within WMI Investment Corp., have never been able to be uncovered' ... Are the Trusts and their Prospectus' available to review ? ... the answer is YES' (I have read many) ... can WMI's participating percentage be uncovered ? ... the answer is NO' ...
Are the Original WMB Noteholder Program, Supporting Trusts' able to be reviewed ? ... I have spent many an hour on this, and the answer is still ... NO' ...
However, ... what I have uncovered, ... IS' ... The Original WMI' Original Preferred Series Offering' ... encompassing' ...
As I said yesterday, ... This document was the Original WMI Issued Preferred Offering' ... and the 10 Year Reset is described to need to be accomplished by 12/15/2017' ... and the 1st ten year rate (2007 - 2017) is listed at 9.75% ... that was not a typo' ... to be Re-Set moving forward as I described yesterday' ...
... believe or not' ? I guess' ... in my opinion, this positive process is ready to go forward, now that WMI II' has finally been "Settled"
AZ
~ Well ? Lets See If This Helps ~
... Your premise is improperly placed, so your conclusion is incorrect' ...
As Documented, ... The Trusts were not ever owned by WMI' (the parent) ... so, the Trusts ... ACTUALLY NONE OF THEM' ... were not actually affected by WMI's and WMIIC's filing for bankruptcy protection' ... the Trusts have continued to perform' ... again' ... ALL OF THEM'
here is just exactly' what I am "basically" saying, ... just watch what happens' ...
AZ
~ Intuitive, Thank You For Following The DD, ~
What - we' - currently have going on, is described in a documented prospectus written some 10 years ago' back in 2007' ... the Original WMI' Issued Preferred Securities' Offering' ...
what is happening now, is in preparation for what is referred to as a "10 Year Reset", ... again, which is directly associated with the Original Issue of the WMI Preferred Securities' ... (Trusts activated between, March of 2006 and November of 2007) ... The Original WMI, now after going through a Reorganization, is the newco' ... WMIH-Corp'
The Original WMI Issued Preferreds' actually have an originally assigned fixed rate of return of 9.75%, ... which resets at the predesignated 10 Year Mark, which is 12/15/2017' ... at which time the interest rate of return, will change to be Libor plus 4.723%, readjusted from then on quarterly, for the next ten year period ... 12/15/2017 to 12/15/2027' ...
So let me try to explain what this actually means in real dollars and cents' ...
An Original WMI Issued Preferred Security's value, has a face value of $1,000.00 plus its cumulative dividend returns ... or, as of now approaching the ten year event, ... a value of roughly $2,539.30 ...
However, ... due to all that has occurred, The Seizure', Two BK's, Dual Tracking Litigation, and now, TWO' Settled Results, ... as we approach the 10 Year Reset Time Line, ... WMIH-Corp needs to be prepared for the 10 Year Mark Reset Event, and all things need to be in order prior to the date' ... 12/15/2017' ...
So, In My Opinion' ... YOU (and me) will NOT relinquish our actual ownership' of the actual security, ... however' the dividend will need to be issued' to accommodate the necessary preparation for the "reset event" ... now' having been held cumulative' on your behalf for your submitted class 19 release' ... so basically,
the interest dividend amount of $1539.30 will be returned to you per your released P' share, (and, 1/40 for a K') and, you will maintain ownership of the literal $1,000.00 face value preferred security, going forward to the next defined reset' ...
What I am describing is directly related to the Original WMI Issued Preferred Security's ... (The Releasing Class 19)
This has nothing to do with the WMB Noteholder Program, ... (the Class 17's)
or, does any of this have anything to do with WMI Investment Corp. ... (originally owned by WMI' or now, actually owned by the releasing Class 22 uq' common shareholders) ...
WMI II's (the WMB Action) needed to be "Settled" and then, "Completed", ... and, the timing of these forward moving issues we have been experiencing ?, has NOT been a coincidence' ...
The BOD's for the reorganized WMI, ... the now WMIH-Corp' ? ... also,
... ~ Know What They Own ~ ...
AZ
~ ItsMyOption, Yes That Is What I Did as Well ~
(49% / 51% preferred / common, ... plus WMB Debt purchased on the secondary, post Plan 7's Implementation)
... All of the WaMu Securities had Trusts Backing Them' ... WMI II' needed to be completed' ... now, thankfully done,
Now, since we have seen the last settlement requirements completed in the California Superior Court, ... the new company is free to move forward' ... and' ... in WMIH-Corp being able to move forward, ... we' ... the associated releasing classes also will need to be addressed ...
I don't believe that the date (06/16/2017) was any coincidence, or chosen randomly, ... The Original WMI Preferred Series Offering' Prospectus, was written over 10 years ago' ...
In my opinion, ... I believe we could actually see notifications of dividend distributions any day now' ...
AZ
~ Yes' to, Answer Your Question ~
as they are associated with WaMu' (encompassing) the Original WMI Issued Preferred Security Trusts, and the now reorganized WMI, to WMIH-Corp' ... along with WMI Investment Corp. and the Trusts Supporting the WMB Noteholder Program,
The return of any funds associated within a needed settlement dispute', is very well defined in each class defining Trust Prospectus' ... the appropriate actions to be taken for payments of any dispute, are specifically defined' ...
either in the case of a designated servicing bank, needing to be seized by the OTS / FDIC ... ? ... or, in the event that any individual Trust (ABS-Cert) finds the need to file individually for bankruptcy protection' ... no stone is left unturned' ...
The presentations that have been being made' ... by and where ?, well' everyone knows I'm sure' ... are not factually correct on numerous levels' ...
I would say that it was the possible result of one never taking the time to study a Class Determinative Supporting Trust Prospectus' ... however' ... in my own opinion, I believe that the misdirection and misrepresentations are driven by a much deeper agenda' ...
ADDED: ... Just to be clear though, ... the FDIC-C's allowed DB' general unsecured claim against the FDIC-R' for some $3 Billion dollars is quite a long ways away from DB' ever receiving any money for their "Allegations" of poor performance' ...
The allowed "Administrative Expense"' and the, General Unsecured Claim are quite different' ...
AZ
~ RD, ... Maybe' ? ~ However ~
I stopped discussing the associated WMIH-Corp and the "dual tracking" defined times lines, associated with ... "the when" ?
after I had originally focused on the WMIH-Corp 10-Q' revealed' R-45, IRS Capital Loss Five Year Time Limitations, and' honestly, missed ... "The Stay Order" ... that Judge Collyer had placed on the forward moving legal process' ...
... which as I have stated, I believe that the FDIC-C and JPMC' took great advantage of to every last day' ...
... however, ... as most everyone, with a few exceptions, has simply sat back and watched, or joined into the fray', ... there was no opportunity missed to discredit the presenter or the presentation' at every possible non-stop continuing opportunity and (way over the top) level' ...
AZ
~ How About This ? Maybe This Will Help' ~
Maybe this is just a bit easier' in an effort to help' the larger group' ... since I have actually taken the time over the last five plus years, to study and read the relevant ("dual tracking") legal process used', along with an associated Trust Prospectus' and its assignment to each releasing class' ...
Simplified, ... According to a WMI' (parent corp. now reorganized into, WMIH-Corp) ... again, a WMI' Original Issued Preferred Security Associated Prospectus ...
The WMI Preferred Security dividend payments will end on December 17th' 2017 ... and the last associated dividend period', will not be considered' for a return ... (making the last dividend distribution period to actually end in June of 2017') ...
the dividends are able to be held cumulative' ...
the dividend returns are calculated at a base security value of $1,000.00 PLUS all of the accumulative' dividend payments, originally calculated at 9.75% ... 2007'
making a released P' share currently valued @ $2,539.30 as of June 2017'
making a released K' share currently valued @ $63.48 as of June 2017'
ALSO' ... Within an originally issued WMI Preferred Security Prospectus' ... the relevance of Deutsche Banks' involvement within these Original WMI Issued Preferred Security Trusts, is described' ... Making the NEED' for the COMPLETION of the WMI II (the WMB Action) Litigation and the "Settlement" to be Necessary for their fulfillment ahead of the last dividend distribution period, which would be "June 17th' 2017" ... now ? thankfully completed' ...
... yes' that is correct on June the 16th, 2017 the Settlement was Completed and to be signed ASAP' by the California Court ...
a coincidence ... ? ... I don't think so, the Original Reveal of this issues was just over 10 years ago, prior to the OTS seizure'
AZ
~ So, I'm Curious, What Should Be Done ? ~
a question to the group, ... What steps should be taken in an honest attempt to help' ... If a participant has actually taken the time and effort, over the last five plus years, basically since the Implementation of the WMI I Reorganization, ... 03/19/2012
one that has actually, taken the time, to study and understand WMIH-Corp, the reorganized company, and its limitations' ... up to' and including the relevance of how the dual tracking litigation, WMI II (the WMB Action) was directly associated with the positive future movement of WMIH-Corp ? ...
and, how very important - Both - the announcement of "the Settlement" was last August 2016' as well as the completion of the Settled Result' a week ago Friday on June 16th, 2017 ... ? ...
Just Curious' ...
AZ
~ That Is Understandable' Maybe I Can Help ~
the DTC - (Clearstream & Euroclear, as well) - is the Distribution Mechanism'
KCC' is the Claims Administrator'
YOU' sent your (WMI I') release and taxing instruction to your "Broker"
Your "Broker" would receive any distribution to ultimately be issued to YOU as a Claim Holder, ... and subsequently' ... your broker, is the party that, issues to you' ...
If' ? ... you are to receive or be issued shares ... ? ... those shares would be placed within your account, and become a taxable issue to you' as you decide to sell' ... or not' ...
If' ? ... you are to receive an assignment of Cash ? ... that Cash assignment would be placed within your associated money market account, held at your Broker' ... and you would be taxed accordingly' ...
Your "Broker" keeps track of you and your contact information' ... The DTC keeps track of the sums to be distributed to the brokers' ... associated with what the KCC' approves of as associated with returning amounts claims' ...
This is direct from a Trust Prospectus' ... (they all have the same mandated similar function)
The Trust will send a copy of each annual or other periodic report (and each Reminder Notice) to DTC with a request that participating organizations in DTC (“ DTC Participants’) forward them to the security holders or holders of an interest in Trust Securities
~ Tzee, ... Everything is Just Fine ~
Now ? with WMI II' completed ? (finally) ... WMIH-Corp, is free to move forward' ... those additional FDIC / JPMC releases were what we' were all waiting for' ...
That WMI-LT can play with itself ? or, the employee claims until hell freezes over for all I care' ... (lawyer chow)
I want to see those Trusts' ... accumulated Cash' flood gates' ... opened up' ...
WMI Investment Corp. ...
the WMB Noteholder Supporting Trusts' ...
the WMI Preferred Supporting Trusts' ...
AZ
~ Tzee, ... Back to WMI I in mid-July ~
WMI II, now done', ... and, I don't count Grant Thorton, (that is the LT's problem) ...
But back to begin to complete the predominant case, ... WMI I, ... in Judge Walrath's Court in mid July' ... employee claims, etc, ...
AZ
~ Austin, ... NOT EVEN CLOSE' ~
I can only speak for myself, ... But I'm HERE, as an investor, ... ON PURPOSE' ...
AZ
~ LP, ... No, In My Opinion ~
This is why I put forth such an effort to define to a WMI I' defining releasing Class, and what each individual releasing class' held as financial support' ... I believed this to be important to my own Holdings, and thought others would be appreciative as well' ...
This DB issue ?, ... was included within the WMI II (the WMB Action) "Settlement", ... included by JPMC and the FDIC-C' ... shameful, on their part in my opinion, for them to take a wrongful advantage of the "Stay Order" placed by Judge Collyer, and drag this out' ...
Just remember, ... once this (time buying, bs) is accommodated though, ... WMI II (the WMB Action) ... is completed ... which only involves ... our situation ...
Yes Class 17 is next, ... however, ... the Class 17' WMB Notes, have their own very powerful segregated Supporting Trusts ... again, originally issued as the WMB Noteholder Program out of Europe, ...
AZ
~ A Hoax ? Nope, Not Hardy ~
Let's just stick to the facts, ... An Original WMI' Issued Preferred Security, ... ultimately designated as a Plan 7 Approved defining Class 19' ... prior to the seizure, had original Supporting Trusts, valued at some $10.9 Billion Dollars ... (plus') ...
These Supporting Trusts' have continued to function since the seizure' ... (prospectus defined) ...
These Supporting (Stand Alone) Trusts, ... were originally held within an INDIRECT Subsidiary of WMB' ...
They are currently individually listed as, ... Operating As (a) Subsidiary of WMI Holdings Corp ... (sound familiar ?) ... it should, ... These Trusts' were also originally issued out of Delaware, ... are any bells going off yet ? are you starting to get the point ? ... Yes, ... WaMu was massive' ...
Some of you, are worried about the dribble amounts of left overs, of the WMI-LT, to be ... RE-Distributed' ... and are truly missing the more relevant larger picture ...
~ Know What You Own ~
AZ