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Could be several pieces of pie.
DCR, JPM, LIBOR.
So much money. Oh my.
Retained earnings must be well over $30B by now.
That all comes back to us 75 25. Once Libor concludes there is no reason to hold that back. $3k per P, $5.60 per Q. Not bad.
Bob, what was that Elton John line.
And you seem to post your lines, like a fart in the wind.
You are mixed up, dude.
There are 144 hedgies. Granted some have small positions. As for Bonderman Tepper Savitz....they are our buddies and we do ride on their coattails.....
Their legal and accounting teams are our police.
And they have been like the silence of the lambs. But ready to pounce like lions when ordered to.
So will we get paid?
Nobody can say for certain.
Relax Bob. No need to get your gonads in an uproar.
The next few months will be very interesting.
Look Bob, I too was skeptical after the markers were deleted. Who wouldn't be.
But....then I received the bondholders mailing a year later. That proved to me that our escrow list was still viable and we are still in the records. So the LT markers are gone. Who cares? The key thing is we are still in the records. That's all that matters.
Now, do you really think the hedgies threw their hands up and walked away? No friggin way. They know what is coming.
Yeah, me too! I have 500,000 Ps.
I also bash stocks I own. LOL Rolls eyes.
So sorry you dont own escrows.
Bwahahahaha!
IMO this is all going to be very simple.
Libor gets settled. Smart board says FDIC gets $400B. Of that $80-100B goes to the Wamu escrows. I don't think we will see anywhere near that amount. I say the FDIC gets $100B. Wamu gets $10-20B.
Then once Libor is done the asset money can be distributed. The junior bonds will be paid by JPM. The asset valuation and payment for the bank could be enormous. But we just don't know and can only guess how much that will be. And no, JPM did not get it all for $1.88B...enough of that silly talk.
I say this all starts to happen by EOY.
It all hinges on Libor, the ongoing litigation the FDIC referred to 5 yrs ago. My fear has always been the corruption of the banks, this country, and the world.
Our trump card is the hedge fund involvement and to a lesser extent the UWs. But they want to get paid. For those who think they took payment under the table...uh...no! Could never happen. And for those who think they just threw in the towel in 2012 and walked away.....uh....no again!
So something is coming. My intuition says this will all play out on the next 2-4 months. Remember, this administration needs an injection of money into the economy desperately. So there you have it.
AIMHO.
Newflo, waited for the final reconciliation of remaining claims and monetization of assets.
Correct. Final reconciliation meaning Libor litigation and then of course assets value can be released upon FDICR closure. Is that your take?
Many thought Libor was not a factor in delaying our case. They were wrong! It delayed it. The FDIC even said that there could be no disbursement while there was ongoing litigation! So now everyone has an epiphany saying, "no money till Libor settlement", Bop included.
So Libor was the reason we've seen nothing. As for us getting screwed because we don't have a policeman looking out for us....remember there are a whopping 144 hedge funds involved in this case. They want their money. They are our police. If they don't get paid we don't get paid. They are ready to pounce with their legal teams if they do not get paid.
Got it? Now, I'm not saying we def will get paid. The world is a very corrupt place these days. I'm just saying we have a chance. And it could be sooner than we think.
Our escrows are safe and sound.
No worries. Those who say escrows are gone know nothing. I have done extensive DD into this and they are all in the records. You don't have to do anything. They have all our records. Relax.
NO! The LT markers are gone but the escrows are not.
Let's hope we hear something soon. Ps may be converted into new preferreds based on current value. Go Libor!!!
They give English classes at all the community colleges for free.
Bop and hold2wm: We are very close.
Quote from: CSNY/Alice Griffin Bankruptcy Attorney -Today at 11:53:56 AM
"I expect the documents ordered revised in Memorandum and Order 3921 will be provided summarily and may be approved by the judge before Thanksgiving."
If so, then disbursement won't be far off. Libor ends, payments begin. Let the money flow.
Sad for the non-releasers, non-escrow owners... :)
If this happens as they think, it will be a joyous holiday season. Help those in need.
Good riddance.
Ron, interest continues to accrue.
So yes it is frustrating to not have that money in our accounts. But when it does come it will be much bigger than we expected.
We shall know by eoy or early in 24.
Are you house or boat window shopping yet?
LG, I wonder if CBA was Dr. A.
Could be. Funny how they both vanished. Maybe died. Who knows. But they both were 100% certain of escrow payments. They were the most knowledgeable of all posters.
So I believe there could be a big event to include Libor settlement, R closing, and Jamie paying up. I might be wrong but the stars are aligning. The IRS wants money to pay for those new agents. The economy is in need of infusion to bail out this fading administration.
All makes sense.
FDIC meets next week. Is this the end game for LIBOR?
Maybe so. We are getting close to something. BP holding on to their predictions of 400B for the FDIC and 80-100B for the Wamu estate/us. Well, we shall see. I am more cautious on my prediction. But the key is, once LIBOR is done the other money can flow. As the FDIC said 5 yrs ago, there can be no final disbursement from the FDICR closing whilst there is ongoing litigation. Remember that? We are close to something indeed.
If there is so much corruption that we don't get any LIBOR funds, then we are doomed. But I like our chances. Amazing that 15+ years later we are still in the game.
Correct. Why would she say that?
Be patient folks.
Sure, they just moved on. LOL
What's a few billion dollars? Chicken feed! LOL
Look, there will be a settlement both through Libor AND assets etc. Or there would have been suits brought. Remember there are 144 hedgies involved. Waiting patiently. I believe bops "source" was one of them.
Correct, Ron. And that's why there will be a settlement.
The hedgies know they could win this easily in court, but have not sued because they no doubt know that this will be settled. Why else wouldn't they sue? They all knew this was an unjust taking.
Stop with your nonsense! Escrows are NOT gone!
Geesh. Look in your History, if you even have an account.
Call KCC. Duh? Yeah sure, I called Doreen today and she said it was hot and sunny and was laying by the pool having a cocktail.
I predict a settlement will happen the last 3 days of Dec or in Q1 of 2024 so taxes don't need to be filed until Apr 2025. That way the IRS gets to withhold 28% for a year and a half....remember we filled out a W9.
So, if you are claiming 20% cap gains the IRS doesn't have to refund the 8% until then. Or if it's in an IRA, same thing. They withhold 28% for a year and half, at least. You don't pay the 20% LTG until you withdraw money from the IRA. That's my take. Consult your tax advisor.
So I don't think anything happens till end of Dec or Q1. I hope it is sooner. We shall see if there even is a settlement! So much corruption.
IMO
The government desperately needs a large cash infusion into the economy.
What better way than to release a large Libor settlement and also the JPM WMI/payment for the bank?
The IRS would get a large windfall and billions would be injected into this struggling economy.
It makes sense. Plus it has to be done! The $1.88 administrative fee by JPM was NOT payment for the bank! I wish people would stop droning on about that nonsense that it was payment in full! Read the filing!.
I know this is not popular here, but I also think it will all be 75 25. The hedgies would have never allowed commons to the party and then give them all the money. Ridiculous theory.
So when....well IF this is going to happen it will happen very soon. Nobody knows the when, not even the FDIC. Lawyers in the UK will try to drag this out and milk as much money as they can from Libor.
Dmdm good points from BP.
QUOTE from Dmdmd1 - IMO...I decided to start a new topic because this is important to point out since there is some major confusion.
Dual Track Bankruptcy process of Chapter 11 cases of WMI and WMIIC:
Judge Walrath repeatedly stated that non-banking bankruptcy remote assets were not allowed into the bankruptcy proceedings
What are the non-banking bankruptcy remote assets?
a) legacy WMI shareholders own the beneficial interests to $101.9 billion original face amount of securitized loans into MBS Trusts (the current value is potentially between $800 billion to $827 billion)
*Long Beach Mortgage (which securitized $165 billion into MBS Trusts) was a non-banking subsidiary. In fact, the regulator for Long Beach Mortgage was not the FDIC or OTS but rather the State of California, thus the FDIC had no jurisdiction over Long Beach Mortgage
**FDIC has stated explicitly that the securitized loans in MBS Trusts are isolated from the jurisdiction of the FDIC
b) real estate (unknown value)
c) mineral rights (unknown value)
d) other miscellaneous assets
FDIC LIBOR litigation potential settlement proceeds ($400 billion claim against defendant banks, potential payout to WMI is unknown)
There was a press release as of September 25, 2008 that explicitly stated that the FDIC did not seize (or transfer to JPMC) any WMI non-banking assets.
Per joint press release by JPMC and FDIC on September 25, 2008:
https://www.sec.gov/.../19617/000119312508201638/dex991.htm
" New York, Sept. 25, 2008 – JPMorgan Chase & Co. (NYSE: JPM) tonight announced it has acquired all deposits, assets and certain liabilities of Washington Mutual's banking operations from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), effective immediately. Excluded from the transaction are the senior unsecured debt, subordinated debt, and preferred stock of Washington Mutual's banks. JPMorgan Chase will not be acquiring any assets or liabilities of the banks' parent holding company (WM) or the holding company's non-bank subsidiaries. As part of this transaction, JPMorgan Chase will make a payment of approximately $1.9 billion to the FDIC."
The WMILT only has jurisdiction over bankruptcy estate assets, not any non-banking bankruptcy remote assets.
I think Tepper, Savitz, Bonderman, and the boys will want their money NOW. They see the world's a mess and want this resolved. Once Libor is settled I say they put the squeeze on Jamie to pay up. No doubt they've been in touch with him. So this could all happen quickly, unless Libor goes to court in the UK, which could delay things a bit.
Don't forget that JPM owns huge amounts of escrows, so in effect they will be paying themselves too.
I say things are happening......we shall see.
COOP gets 2.5% of the take so that could be why we see COOP rising now.
I agree with the smart board.
JPM will use the smokescreen of the Libor settlement to pay off the assets, at the same time. That way it will look like they are just complying with the Libor settlement while killing two birds with one stone. The Libor settlement will happen at any time now, but likely within the next 4 months, depending on whether it goes to court in the UK.....so what will the WAMU estate get from Libor? 10B - 100B? The BP estimates are at the high end of the range. Mine are at the low end due to the corruption and world situation.
Of course Bob. Bonds get paid first but it will all happen at the same time.
And for those who say escrows were deleted forever think again. Look in your account history. They are alive and well. Just hiding until its time to resurface when the money comes.
Nothing can happen until Libor closes. Period.
That could happen any time now, at the latest Q1 24.
So relax. Once it closes we will see. Got it?
Now the smart board says Wamu estate gets 80-100B from Libor. Could be, but I have my doubts. Fdic is very corrupt. Even if we get 10-20B that would be huge for us. Then the asset money is next.
Dont be so impatient. We seem to be very close, and the government wants this money to be released for the tax revenue.
Why would you say such nonsense?
Lost a lot of respect for you. Geesh, what's wrong with everyone these days???
WARNING: If you had a TDA account, the escrow positions you had did not transfer over to Schwab.
But.....if you scroll through your History on the new Schwab account you will still see them there on 2/11/2022.
TDA TRAN - REMOVAL OF WORTHLESS SECURITIES (939ESC968)
02/11/2022
TDA TRAN - REMOVAL OF WORTHLESS SECURITIES (939ESC992)
I suggest making a copy of that information just in case they vanish at some point. These historical records are also archived elsewhere since this is still in litigation, but just be aware that those positions did not transfer to Schwab. Your history is your proof.
Now, if Libor etc. pays out, that info is available so don't panic. But it would still be wise to keep copies.
Libor wrapping up with new Fdic settlement lawyers coming onto the scene.
We are close. Dont believe it will result in 80b for escrows as BP thinks, but even 10b would be a good start.
Then Demon pays for the bank, assets get released, and we too could afford to have skinny Taylor for our girlfriend!
LOL. SMH.
I think people are snapping. I understand the angst and frustration, but please try to keep your heads on straight as we wait out the Libor conclusion. Then we will know what lies behind the curtain....if it wasnt stolen forever.
Newflow that's Doreen's home address. Please don't bother her.
boarddork, good luck getting them to answer that one!
"We need to demand from COOP at the next shareholder meeting, Who is COOP's Direct (xxxx) and Ultimate (XXXX) Parent !! Investors have a legal right to know who is pulling strings that can affect their investment. It is dishonest to pump half truths about COOP, because COOP is just a puppet."
Either they will be say they are unable to disclose what is considered private company matters like ownership (Ha!), or there will be an announcement before the meeting at some point to disclose it, knowing someone now will ask the question.
We are not dealing with an ethical company here folks.
Remember what Delgado said many yrs ago: He "spoke to WAMU people in the know and they said there would be no distributions to the escrow holders."
Well, he got fired from his investor relations position shortly thereafter.
The greater question is, why the delay?
Well, that's a common tactic these days. Delay and obfuscate is the american way. Sweep things under the rug and let as much time pass as possible until a major crisis comes along to supplant the issue.
So, JPM Dimon and crew feel that if they just continue to delay and delay, the matter will go away and they get to keep it all.
But they must pay up now and they know it.
The hedgies are tired of waiting.
No doubt that calls are being made behind the scenes.
Dimons delay game is coming to an end.
Now you see what why COOP fired Delgado for saying too much of the wrong thing.
And why the hedgies and UWs have been so quiet....they've known all along. Patience is a vulture.
Panda, nothing is etched in stone. They are educated guesses. We are close to resolution. What that will be, who knows.
The consensus is 400B. But nobody knows for sure. Its all cloaked in secrecy due to our 3rd world country, bank system, Fed, Fdic, and Doj. Why didnt Walrath make an issue of the redactions? Why did she allow Dimon to keep that found 30B? Why wasnt that returned to the employees and shareholders who lost everything?
And on and on.
Its sickening.
So will we get anything? Who knows. I just keep coming back to the movie....
FDIC wants 400B from LIBOR.
So that would equate to maybe 80B for Wamu estate, us.
The smart board says that will be 75 25. Which means 8k per P and 15.00 per Q.
Then the legacy assets are on top of that.
Dont forget that great movie, The Silence of the Hedgies.
Why so quiet? Guess.
Now it's all about LIBOR.
Once that is completed we get paid and assets can open up.
How much LIBOR will escrows get? Dunno. But most think around 80B if the FDIC gets their 400B. Let's see. Even 10B would pay par. Nice start while we wait for the assets to pay off.
So once a distribution date is set for the first escrow payout, the brokerages will offer loans in advance of the distribution.
That way they get some money from us before our money comes into our accounts.
Since the money would be guaranteed it is a no risk loan for them.
It appears that is how things will likely unfold.
So if there is nothing left and nothing coming back, why are you here? Why are any of you who feel that way, still here, bashing escrows 24 7?
Puzzling agenda.
It's easy to pound your chest and say there is nothing, because there has been nothing. Duh.
But when it does happen and it eventually will, it will be fun to watch the scattering, like cockroaches when the light's turned on.
So, have your fun now.
We'll have ours, later.
He who laughs last laughs best. :)
Next up. LIBOR.