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Zen: The first 20 Million will come from DELL. The question really is where does the first billion come from?
Barge: I hear you loud and clear buddy! What timeline are you looking at in relation to Wave providing those services? Can you feel it? I feel it's getting real close!
LOL. This is so damn exciting! Thanks for the refresher. Jeff
Barge: That's a great post. Very interesting stuff!
Mundo: Nice find!!!
AWK: What do you know about "Orange’s new secure contactless payment application"??? Also, any enlightment on the Nomadik application processor communicating with a home server? Pretty exciting stuff!
"Orange’s new secure contactless payment application has implemented industry-standard Operator Virtual Machine (OVM) technology on ST Nomadik™ processors.
ST has also prototyped, in cooperation with Telecom Italia, an open mobile platform (OMP), where a handset, equipped with a modem-independent Nomadik™ application processor, communicates with a home server. OMP’s secure environment enables an authorized user to download, browse, or store any content, as well as remote-control home appliances, either using voice commands or via the keypad of their mobile phone."
Eamon: is that a picture of you in the link?
Sheldon: I attached the links you provided in your post to an email and sent to five of my investor friends who dont follow this board. I retrieved these links from my sent email not from your prior post. I neglected to give credit where credit was due and for that I publically apologize. Sorry if I offended you. I do appreciate all that you have contributed to the board and only wish you well.
Barge: I find your XBox DD facinating myself. I simply find it insignificant in comparison to what we know about the TCG mobile space and Trustzone. I dont know what the hell "board politics" has to do with anything we're discussing? We can take that discussion privately if you choose. Factually, i've been on this board just as long as you have and yes I suppose I was more of a loose cannon early on. Not alot to be a loose cannon about these days my friend?! This has mostly all played out from a tech standpoint. If the tech sells we win and if it doesn't we lose. Pretty simple these days. I'm relaxed because I believe we won. Just waiting to count my sheckles next year. Take care partner. Respectfully, Jeff
Barge: Apparently I initiated and proposed the original argument:
Posted by: Whitewash
In reply to: barge who wrote msg# 99764 Date:10/31/2005 9:56:21 PM
Post #of 99884
Barge: Hate to tell you my friend... It won't be XBox that will put Wave on the consumer map but Nokia. Nokia will be the one to drive Wave into the consumer space.
The argument is simple...
1. Will the consumer or enterprise space make Wave a billion dollar plus company in the next couple years. I say consumer space as you do.
2. Will XBox or Nokia be the FIRST to drive Wave revenues to the promised land. I say Nokia.
3. Can XBox alone make Wave a billion in revenue? I say maybe. I also say Nokia definitely.
Let me ask you a question. Who at Wave is personally driving this XBox initiative? I can tell you Lark Allan is personally driving the Nokia intitiative.
Given all the DD relative to the trusted mobile phone space and XBox which seems more plausible at this point?
Barge: I'm with you on XBox brother. But there are still alot of questions surrounding this space. Alot of questions. We do however have a solid idea what Wave will be providing relative to Nokia and the TCG mobile intiative. Above all, you can't compare the XBox gaming market to the cell phone market in terms of revenue opportunity. There is no comparison. Nokia could easily announce their XYZ phone does ABC trusted applications tomorrow and Wave would become a wet dream for all of us. We've seen Verizon and Motorola attempt to offer a few bells and whistles recently with movie trailers and itunes music downloads (storage capacity of 100 songs). I believe when Nokia responds to their competitors and market demand that they will do it the way we have all imagined. How about countless songs accessed via web storage? Online banking transactions? I believe Wave will be providing application development tools and authentication and application server software to support Nokias new trusted phone(s). I believe Nokia will draw first blood and their competitors will follow suit. I think we will see this transpire sometime in 2006 (mid 2006?) IMO. How is that for sticking my neck out there?
Barge: AuthenTec,Nokia, Wave Systems and others in the mobile market to host a seminar addressing wireless security and the protection of user data and content.
Looks to me like Wave and Nokia are taking the lead here? Am I missing something? Oh, maybe the "others"?
.T. & Entertainment 2005 event in San Francisco, CTIA-The Wireless
Association(TM) will team with Trusted Computing Group Members, AuthenTec,
Inc., Nokia, Wave Systems and others in the mobile market to host a seminar
addressing wireless security and the protection of user data and content.
"Security and Mobile Devices: What You Need to Know to Build Secure Systems
and to Protect User Data and Content" will be held on Tuesday, September 27
from 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
The security of wireless devices and software remains a top priority of the
wireless industry. During this half-day seminar, security and wireless experts
will discuss the role of industry standards as well as next steps to ensure
wireless data and transactions are safe.
"The wireless industry takes seriously its responsibility to protect the
more than 195 million wireless devices in use today in the United States,"
said Steve Largent, President & CEO of CTIA. "Through discussions such as this
seminar, the industry is determining the steps necessary to stay ahead of
potential security developments. Although breaches are rare, we will continue
to proactively protect the integrity of wireless handsets and devices."
The challenges and opportunities for wireless security in content,
transactions and potential solutions will be addressed in the seminar, as will
the work currently being done by the Trusted Computing Group, an industry
organization developing open specifications for security. Wireless industry
representatives will be available during the session for questions and
discussion. This seminar is open to all CTIA event attendees.
CTIA WIRELESS I.T. & Entertainment 2005, September 27-29, 2005 at Moscone
West in San Francisco, CA, is a comprehensive wireless data event, which
represents both sides of the industry - Enterprise and Consumer. From the
Enterprise side the focus is on integrating wireless technologies into the
enterprise and vertical business markets, such as healthcare, government,
automotive, retail, etc. Additionally, the show reflects the explosive growth
in wireless entertainment - encompassing everything from mobile content to
digital cameras and interactive games. Registration and complete event details
are now available at www.CTIA.org.
Note: Qualified reporters and research analysts interested in attending CTIA
WIRELESS I.T. & Entertainment 2005 can register online for FREE MEDIA
CREDENTIALS at www.CTIA.org. For questions on registration, please contact
Erin McGee at emcgee@ctia.org or by phone at 202.736.2980.
CTIA is the international association for the wireless telecommunications
industry, representing carriers, manufacturers and wireless Internet
providers.
www.ctia.org
"Security is increasingly important to the users, manufacturers, service providers and application providers for the increasingly complex mobile phone ecosystem and requires an industry-standard approach to ensure consistent and rapid deployment," noted Janne Uusilehto, chairman, TCG Mobile Phone Work Group and head of product security technologies, NOKIA.
Trusted Computing Group Unveils Mobile Phone Security Use Cases; Initiative Offers Road Map of Standardized Mobile Phone Security for Protection of Data and Content
9/27/2005 4:01:01 PM
http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/newsarticle.asp?guid={D31EDDC7-C670-4FFF-979D-4A520AC959BB}&....
SAN FRANCISCO, Sep 27, 2005 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- The Trusted Computing Group, a nonprofit industry association that creates open industry specifications that vendors use to create more secure computing products, today announced its plans to enable trust and security in mobile phones and their applications. The organization has created a set of use cases for mobile phone security and intends to have a publicly available specification ready for first half of 2006.
The organization's mission is to provide specifications as building blocks for virtually every device that touches a network. With mobile phone handset and related application growth exploding worldwide, security has become a concern because many new phones are used for computing tasks, Internet connectivity, e-commerce or content delivery. Just as with PCs, these phones potentially can be hosts or transmitters of viruses and malware and subject to virtual and physical theft.
TCG's mobile phone work group, whose active members include Authentec, Ericsson, France Telecom, IBM, Infineon, Intel, Lenovo, Motorola, Nokia, Philips, Samsung, Sony, STMicroelectronics, Texas Instruments, VeriSign, Vodaphone and Wave Systems, has been working to identify critical security issues, standardized approaches to them, and implementation of Trusted Computing concepts.
"Security is increasingly important to the users, manufacturers, service providers and application providers for the increasingly complex mobile phone ecosystem and requires an industry-standard approach to ensure consistent and rapid deployment," noted Janne Uusilehto, chairman, TCG Mobile Phone Work Group and head of product security technologies, Nokia. "TCG's experience, expert members and cross-industry membership make it an ideal organization to drive standards for more secure mobile phones."
Today's document defines the usage of mobile phones in trusted environments. It is intended to guide development of the future specification and to solicit industry input to ensure TCG is meeting industry needs for security.
The use cases defined include:
-- Platform integrity to ensure the hardware and software are in a state intended by the manufacturer.
-- Device authentication to protect and store identities of users and bind the device to the appropriate user.
-- Digital rights management implementation to protect content on the phone.
-- SIMlock/device personalization to ensure a device is locked to its network and prevents device theft.
-- Secure software download to enable the safe download of updates, patches and other software.
-- Secure channel between the device and UTMS Integrated Circuit Card (UICC) to help avoid malicious software that can interfere with applications or otherwise compromise it.
-- Mobile ticketing to enable the secure download of tickets and manage them.
-- Mobile payment to enable the secure execution of payments.
-- Software use to ensure that software is safe, and if not can be removed, replaced or not executed.
-- User data protection and privacy to allow users to prevent their information from being accessed or viewed by unauthorized entities and to give users access to services or data that might not require personal information.
The complete use cases and a summary of them are available today online at www.trustedcomputinggroup.org.
About TCG
TCG is an industry standards body formed to develop, define, and promote open standards for trusted computing and security technologies, including hardware building blocks and software interfaces, across multiple platforms, peripherals, and devices. TCG specifications are designed to enable more secure computing environments without compromising functional integrity with the primary goal of helping users to protect their information assets from compromise due to external software attack and physical theft.
More information and the organization's specifications are available at the Trusted Computing Group's Web site, www.trustedcomputinggroup.org.
Brands and trademarks are the property of their respective owners.
SOURCE: Trusted Computing Group
Trusted Computing Group
Anne Price, 602-840-6495
press@trustedcomputinggroup.org
Barge: Strictly my opinion based on the DD provided mostly by AWK on Trustzone coupled with recent demonstrations by Nokia and Wave at CT Wireless. I find the Trustzone DD much more credible than any of the XBox stuff i've read on this board. Especially as it relates to revenue generation for Wave in the near future IMO.
"Nokia, the world's biggest handset maker, plans to use the TCG's security specifications, Uusilehto said."
New security proposed for do-it-all phones
Published: September 27, 2005, 4:00 AM PDT
By Joris Evers
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
As mobile phones become digital do-it-alls, handsets need better protection from hackers and from unauthorized access when they're lost or stolen, says an industry group proposing new, hardware-based security standards for the devices.
The Trusted Computing Group (TCG)--backed by big names like Nokia, Motorola, Intel, Samsung, VeriSign and Vodafone--plans to unveil its plan Tuesday at a conference sponsored by the Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association. The TCG has already developed similar specifications for PCs and servers.
In addition to voice calls, cell phones are increasingly used for taking pictures, keeping a calendar and sending text messages and e-mail. In the future they could replace wallets, say industry pundits, with consumers whipping out a specially equipped phone instead of a credit card to pay for a purchase. That would make securing the gadgets even more important.
Locking up cell phones
The Trusted Computing Group provides 10 examples of what its plan for hardware-based security could enable in mobile phones.
1. Platform integrity to ensure the hardware and software are in a state intended by the manufacturer.
2. Device authentication to protect and store identities of users and bind the device to the appropriate user.
3. Digital rights management to protect content on the phone.
4. SIMlock/device personalization to ensure a device is locked to its network and can't be easily stolen.
5. Secure software download to enable the safe download of updates, patches and other software.
6. Secure channel between different parts of the phone to prevent tampering by malicious software.
7. Mobile ticketing to enable the secure download of tickets and manage them.
8. Mobile payment to enable the secure execution of payments.
9. Software use to ensure software is safe, and if not, that it can be removed, replaced or not executed.
10. User data protection to allow users to prevent their information from being accessed or viewed by unauthorized people and to give users access to services or data that might not require personal information.
Source: Trusted Computing Group.
"Without proper security, mobile phones may become a target for hackers and malicious software," said Janne Uusilehto, senior technology manager at Nokia and chairman of the TCG's Mobile Phone Working Group. "The benefit of hardware-based security is that users can rely on their phone and (know) that private data is protected."
The proposed standard doesn't just protect user data. The security hardware also enables copyright protection, according to the TCG, a feature demanded by the entertainment industry. This so-called digital rights management technology could mean access to more exclusive content on cell phones, but it could also limit the content that will play on devices.
Additionally, says the TCG, cell phone operators could use the technology to get more control over the devices they sell. Operators would get a better way to lock devices to their networks and tighten control over which services and software can run on the gadgets. But user-rights advocates complain that such things limit consumers' choice and freedom.
The TCG's plans call for mobile handset hardware to support features similar to those of the Trusted Platform Module. The TPM is a security chip designed for PCs and servers that enables a variety of security features, including authentication, protected storage and secure e-mail. The TPM technology will need to be adapted because mobile phones are much smaller than PCs.
At the CTIA wireless event, the TCG will introduce its plans by sharing "use cases" for hardware-based security in cell phones. The group plans to release a blueprint designed to make it possible to include security technology in mobile handsets in the first half of 2006, representatives told CNET News.com.
Adding hardware-based security to cell phones can enable services such as electronic ticketing and mobile payments, according to the TCG. It can also provide for secure storage of personal information such as an address book, text messages, e-mail and pictures. And, in the future, payment data such as credit card numbers will be added to the mix, the TCG said.
"Nowadays my Treo 650 has some files from my corporation. It would be nice to have the phone rendered unusable if it gets lost," said Thomas Hardjono, a principal scientist at VeriSign and member of the TCG Mobile Phone Working Group. The Palm Treo 650 is a phone with features such as e-mail, a calendar and a camera.
As handsets get smarter and used for more than just voice calls, the threat of hacker attacks and mobile phone viruses rises, Nokia's Uusilehto said. The new security features can protect the devices against such threats, he said.
"Mobile phones are becoming full of security-demanding services," Uusilehto said. "Attacks are not a major problem today, and that makes the timing pretty good for us. We have time to do security properly, where we are not in a firefighting mode."
In addition to enabling new services and protecting user data, the TCG's proposals can also be used to secure copyright-protected data on mobile phones. That use of the new security features is critical to content services, said VeriSign's Hardjono. VeriSign is a significant player in the mobile content business with its Jamba and Jamster services.
"We want to sell content, but the folks in Hollywood don't want to sign the paperwork because they want guarantees that the devices have got proper security," Hardjono said. "No DRM, no content."
But digital rights management is one way the proposed security technology could restrict cell phone users, say some user-rights advocates. Operators would also get a better way to lock phones to their networks and close control of the services and applications that can run on devices.
"A lot of carriers have a model of trying to tax everything that goes into a phone, which we think is unfortunate," said Seth Schoen, staff technologist at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "The TPM is just another tool to let them do these things."
Although the Trusted Platform Module is controversial on the PC because consumers expect a lot of freedom when using their computer, the same is not true for mobile phones. "In the cell phone market there is an assumption--rarely questioned--that restricting the end user is the natural thing carriers do," Schoen said. "I don't see the TPM in phones changing the user experience."
Hardware-based security is not new to the mobile phone space, said Nokia's Uusilehto, but manufacturers have so far each gone their own way. The Trusted Computing Group aims to provide a standard, which should reduce costs for handset makers and let component suppliers standardize.
"Today we're wasting a lot of resources and inventing the wheel again here and there, instead of doing it together in this open approach," Uusilehto said.
Nokia, the world's biggest handset maker, plans to use the TCG's security specifications, Uusilehto said. However, he could not say which products would include the technology and when those might become available.
PreviousNext"The major problem is not that the technology is so difficult, but that the market is fractured," he said. While the PC market is dominated by Intel and Microsoft, the mobile phone space has many different players who will need more time to coordinate, he said.
Though the industry sees broad use for its security technologies, Pescatore thinks large businesses will be the first to buy devices that have the added security technology. Employees are accessing corporate data on their mobile devices and there is a need for more "trustable" devices, he said.
Consumers initially will not want to pay for the extra features, Pescatore said. "What consumers really want are smaller phones and lighter phones, and they don't want to pay a lot for them. Adding security hardware can make the phone more expensive, thicker and take more battery power."
Barge: I heard it from larry dudash who said he heard it from you? LOL
Trust:Did you find some weed in your trick or treat bag tonight? Ten years? Nokia will blow your mind brother in the NEAR future. You heard it here first.
AWK: It's only fitting that it's you who posts the delisting notice! I bet your laughing your tail off aren't you? Because you know it's the last delisting notice we will ever see again?! I personally find this to be a defining moment for Wave being the last negative stone thrown at this company. I welcome this delisting notice and look forward to the next six months.
Barge: Hate to tell you my friend... It won't be XBox that will put Wave on the consumer map but Nokia. Nokia will be the one to drive Wave into the consumer space.
Barge: I found the Larry Dudash part to be particularly funny! Keep being you.
Larry has to be laughing his arse off right about now?
Your right, but over Larry Dudash???
Weby: Terrific advice.. I agree 100%.
"IMO it is best that we keep our bar fights to an absolute minimum."
The heavyweights on this board should be uniting in the eleventh hour of Waves journey! Bickering over Larry Dudash? C'mon?!
I feel ya man! But you know how the youngest in the family always seem to get the better spoils than the oldest! This will be no different for your younger ones! It's a lock brother IMO. Dell, ST Micro, Seagate to kick start us in 2006 and Trustzone to take us to the promised land early 2007!
Just a prediction... My kids will go to an ivy league school thanks to Wave management.
Those were good Sunday night thoughts! Thank you! Jeff
Bluefang of all poeple calling Barge bi-polar??? If anybody wants to see a paranoid-schizoid bi-polar individual in action then please go back and read Bluefangs flip flop posts. Bluefang has even publically apologized for flip flopping. Blue is comfortable over there on the other board where there is absolutely no accountability for posts. The yea-hoo board that is...
No kidding! I will want to drink myself to death in Vegas amongst my long friends! We can do a group remake of "Leaving Las Vegas"...
Doma: would have been better if Wave was listed under "Hot Sellers"!
Any thoughts out there relative to the new Apple Ipod video player? I watched Steve Jobs and Disney exec yesterday claim the new Ipod will eventually download full length movies and ABC programs. I would imagine this will require a TPM'd PC to download such content no? How about the server tools?
Greg: I will have much more to be disappointed about if you are right and that is a fact. You've wisely made your money on Intel over the years. I'm invested in Wave to take a ride with a company that provides the market upside much like Intel of old. In the end, it's not about who's right and wrong on this board but who made the most money if Wave growth is realized as many of us here expect.
Greg, you want to chastise Snack for being wrong on a couple revenue projections when you provided this board with the MOTHER of all wrong opinions that TPM's wouldn't flood the market?! Now you want to spin another major WRONG opinion that:
"TPM deployment does not necessarily = Wave revenue. You will see this in short order."
You are already wrong on that one pal... How about the ST Micro deal for TPM 1.2?
http://www.wave.com/news/press_archive/05/050711_ST.html
http://www.wave.com/news/press_archive/04/040907_ST.html
Atmel TPM 1.2?
http://www.wave.com/news/press_archive/05/050729_Atmel.html
National Semi?
http://www.wave.com/news/press_archive/03/030327NSM.html
SKS just repeated AGAIN that we are making between 50 cents and a dollar on the ST Micro deal alone? That over a million TPM's shipped from ST Micro in Q2 alone? Greg, that's revenue for Wave made from a TPM Manufacturer.
http://www.wallstreetreporter.com/profiles/WaveSystems.html
The FACT is Wave is getting revenue for every one of the above shipped TPM's. That's a fact brother!
And of course you personally know HOW MANY Intel platforms are shipping with Wave? We all know your were wrong on that one? And we are making $$$$$ on every platform shipped. That's a fact.
If anybody has been wrong and continues to be wrong it's you Greg. So let the track record speak for itself. Having said all that... I respect your right to express your opinions and my right to challenge them and visa versa.
Don't know if link already posted? For full article:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20051005/index.html
Wave Mention:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20051005/staying_in_control_with_trusted_platform_modules-03.html
Staying In Control With Trusted Platform Modules
Article Info
Staying In Control With Trusted Platform Modules
Created: October 5, 2005
By: Felix Laufer
Patrick Schmid
Category: PCs & HowTo
"In the area of trusted computing software or software using installed TPMs, Wave Systems offers the Embassy Security center, the complete Embassy Trust Suite (document management, digital signatures) and its CSP Toolkit (Cryptographic Service Provider) for Windows programmers."
Greg: So interim meaning Vista will eventually provide interoperable server backup and recovery of TPM 1.2 laptops??? That is the bread and butter business relative to the enterprise space as you must know. Will Vista provide such a service or not? Do you not think there is a revenue model associated with this service? You state there is "interim" value... What is that value?
Not to mention probably one of the most important elements to consider for ANY IT department is lost or stolen laptops and the enormous cost associated with such losses. Wave provides that service now. Will Vista?
Barge: Sometimes you and I think alot alike. That scares me:) Jeff
Doma: Absolutely! When you look back at the Wave / Trusted Logic partnership during the Finread years it sure looks that way. I would be shocked if Wave's firmware wasn't integrated.
Just a matter of time Doma. Just a matter of time.
Greg: So the OEM's will invest several years flooding the market with TPM's when they know TPM's will become obsolete anyway?
"I believe that TPM-management will not be the "killer" TC approach."
"The TPM will disappear from the motherboard. Management will be far more integrated into the OS than anything Wave can muster."
So the gameplan is to build the infrastucture and then turn right around and rip it down? That's your reasoning and belief?
That's such a wonderful idea that I think you should share it with Comcast so they can begin to rip their cable out of the ground and go with something else? Hey, maybe they can go wireless to their customers? Oh, but that would require a TPM to authenticate their users and attest to their set top boxes? That probably wouldn't work would it?
Greg: Wave will have financing available for years to come IF they needed it. Holding on by their fingernails? That makes me laugh!